dunno if this has been posted, but this woman is clearly wrong when you use any critical thinking.
Admittedly, I've only managed to make it through about 10 of the 40+ pages that this thread has generated (and subsequently, I might repeat something that has already been covered...). I can understand a lot of what is being said, and can even appreciate the arguments raised in the "Damsel in Distress:Critical Context." Wouldn't it be better to join in and help improve the arguments, instead of just finding ways to argue why they're wrong?
As an artist, I certainly appreciate someone taking the time to help me improve, and giving me specifics on what I'm doing wrong and how I can improve them. It has never helped me to just tell me I suck.
Admittedly, I've only managed to make it through about 10 of the 40+ pages that this thread has generated (and subsequently, I might repeat something that has already been covered...). I can understand a lot of what is being said, and can even appreciate the arguments raised in the "Damsel in Distress:Critical Context." Wouldn't it be better to join in and help improve the arguments, instead of just finding ways to argue why they're wrong?
As an artist, I certainly appreciate someone taking the time to help me improve, and giving me specifics on what I'm doing wrong and how I can improve them. It has never helped me to just tell me I suck.
She's not interested in constructive critique. She's a radical feminist engaging in what's called critical theory. Critical theory - the deconstructive method she's applying - isn't about improving something. It's about tearing it down. It's about pure criticism to debase something. One of the biggest issues many social philosophers have with her school of postmodernist thought is that critical theory never provides legitimate alternatives or constructive options, only destructive (thus the term "deconstruction").
If she was conducting legitimate research and providing credible historical and sociological analysis without the extremely radical bias she's injected, lots of people here (me included) would be more than happy, THRILLED even, to debate and work with her constructively to make positive changes, but she's only interested in attacking.
I noticed as I got further through the videos, they got increasingly specific, targeted and possibly a little more....hostile? I mean, that's where she's coming from though right? Being fed up?
Either way, someone could pull her aside and say "you need to stay on track, don't lose your cool, and keep it constructive and informative, or you're going to start alienating people."
At least we're having this meaningful dialogue. Sarkeesian has the tendency to present her strong opinions as fact, and give people the wrong ideas about the industry and games in general, and offer little to no alternatives or solutions; but at the very least I'm glad that she got people mad enough about everything to really start talking about the issues. Hopefully we (everyone, male and female devs and gamers) will start figuring this stuff out, preferably WITHOUT her.
Look at any random post where people are hating on a girl for her body type. AT the top of the comments section you will invariable see a highly rated message telling the haters to basically stfu and go kick rocks. This strongly implies one thing initially. The number of people who thumb those comments up outweigh the negative comments by many dozens to one. They're usually over a hundred to one.
But even MORE interesting is this. GO through the comments and identify which ones are slamming the person. You will find those are almost always female. Male comments are nearly non-existant. I've done it on several facebook pictures and youtube videos.
WOmen have only thems selves to blame for the 'pressure.' Who buys those idiotic magazines at the supermarket? Guys?
In a world where there is intense pressure to be pc 24/7 simple truths that are not so pleasant often go unonoticed and even un stated for fear of persectuion.
Not to mention the fact that male action heroes are always msuclebound and handsome. Who gives a flying flip? The materialistic ones do. That's who.
This does appear to mirror the lives of academia and labor.
As in how talking about it and doing research, analyses and opinion on the matter appear to move things more slowly than actually building something. Just as all of those essays, journals, and research reports do practically nothing for the lay-man until somebody builds something based upon their findings.
Couldn't stop watching after the first video.
I completely understand the idea behind the video, and it would be great to see more strong women portraying lead characters but this woman has something to prove.
argh. ok, so I can see where she's on track and means well, and I can see where my own innate self-defence-mechanism kicks in.
BUT
I recognize that she's a smart person, and she proves it at points through out her videos. Maybe some one could really proof read and second/third opinion the wording?
In the mean time, I'm re-thinking my own stories and re-writing some old projects with some of the information I've gotten from this.
I must admit, I really am going to miss saving women though, and being all like, a hero and stuff.
I actually liked a lot of this video. She still dwells on a lot of deconstructive negativity, but she counters that with showing good examples, and even presents a solution. She even had a call to action at the end!
I still don't like any of her other videos for aforementioned reasons, but this one was a refreshing improvement.
So all in all I can agree with her that the trope, no matter how you rearrange it, is still weak and lazy, at least in the way that people have historically been using it in games. I've seen that a lot in my gaming experience, and it actually does get old. Along with seeing more female protagonists (and character depth), I would love to see alternative motivations/justification for gameplay explored.
I really wish she'd do abridged edits of her videos. There is some interesting content and information in them - but the long winded nature of the script hurts them, I think.
I suppose this is following the formula of lengthy academic essays, but still - after 5 minutes of sitting through this, I just want to know her points and conclusions. She might benefit from adopting a format more appropriate to youtube, with links to more detailed videos with her observations and criticism of specific games related to the issue, for instance. That would be a good way for her to show what she loves about BGaE, why Princess Peach is a bad joke, without slowing down her main Tropes videos to a crawl.
Makkon : yeah I agree, this kind of narrative is really boring. Ironically, I think it works quite well when used in its most basic form (setting some kind of goal to reach - be it a Damsel, a dog or a tincan ... it doesn't really matter). But yeah, in recent "serious" games and movies, it's really quite lazy and stupid.
She is a terrible presenter, genuinely awful at getting attention or sounding invested.
Some of the shit she spouts has merit but most is, as mentioned, deconstructive criticism and shallow whining.
I watched this one because it didn't start with something as stupid as a "trigger warning".
So far she's gotten 150k and made 1 hours worth of a Trope List and criticising lazy writing/means to an end "story" elements often introduced ironically but hey context isn't real only feels right?
It also irks me how she presents all her shit as complete fact, that she is the end all voice in regards to sexism in fiction, that irony, tone, humour and context has NO PLACE IN THIS DISCUSSION BECAUSE PEOPLE PLAYING THESE GAMES WILL LIGHT WOMEN ON FIRE.
Also how about making that game she suggested instead of making a video series based around regurgitating tropes and making ZERO progress for anything.
I'm just going to wait for one of the numerous videos that will reply to this picking apart her non existent arguments.
And as always, perceived sexism in fiction is not real sexism. If you seriously carry over ideas of sexism from fiction: Something is wrong with YOU, not the fucking fiction.
She is a terrible presenter, genuinely awful at getting attention or sounding invested.
Some of the shit she spouts has merit but most is, as mentioned, deconstructive criticism and shallow whining.
I watched this one because it didn't start with something as stupid as a "trigger warning".
So far she's gotten 150k and made 1 hours worth of a Trope List and criticising lazy writing/means to an end "story" elements often introduced ironically but hey context isn't real only feels right?
It also irks me how she presents all her shit as complete fact, that she is the end all voice in regards to sexism in fiction, that irony, tone, humour and context has NO PLACE IN THIS DISCUSSION BECAUSE PEOPLE PLAYING THESE GAMES WILL LIGHT WOMEN ON FIRE.
Also how about making that game she suggested instead of making a video series based around regurgitating tropes and making ZERO progress for anything.
I'm just going to wait for one of the numerous videos that will reply to this picking apart her non existent arguments.
And as always, perceived sexism in fiction is not real sexism. If you seriously carry over ideas of sexism from fiction: Something is wrong with YOU, not the fucking fiction.
Just because she doesn't organize her videos in the best way doesn't mean the problem isn't there. Video games have a huge problem with sexism and shallow female characters, which are directly caused by bad writing. I don't think calling attention to it is a bad thing.
Just because she doesn't organize her videos in the best way doesn't mean the problem isn't there. Video games have a huge problem with sexism and shallow female characters, which are directly caused by bad writing. I don't think calling attention to it is a bad thing.
Of course, it's just everyone knows and is aware of this. And the ones who are not probably don't care. But the baseline is of course as you said: Bad Writing, which we're thankfully seeing big changes in newer games, thanks to better technology and years of knowledge in regards to what makes captivating gameplay.
Some games are narrow in what they want to do and as such just throw in a simple cause for the sake presenting some tangible effect (Super Meat Boy) Others weave a proper story around why the game is the way it is and presents the player with multiple goals tied to it (Bastion)
Both are good, one has lazier writing but it fits the game, neither promotes sexism.
I've yet to play a game where you rack up points for specifically beating up, demeaning or in any other way mistreat women and have that be the goal from both a gameplay and story perspective. If such a game exists, then yes, that is sexist, otherwise, stop digging.
Both are good, one has lazier writing but it fits the game, neither promotes sexism.
I've yet to play a game where you rack up points for specifically beating up, demeaning or in any other way mistreat women and have that be the goal from both a gameplay and story perspective. If such a game exists, then yes, that is sexist, otherwise, stop digging.
Her videos are less about video games than they are about womens place in society at large. This is part of a broader theory that women are victims of cultural stereotypes about their gender.
She relates this to video games, "mass media entertainment doesn't just reflect our culture, it also serves to create it". There may be nothing particularly sexist about a man rescuing a woman, however her belief is that the overuse of it associates women with helplessness that has broader impacts to how women are seen and treated throughout society as well as how they see themselves.
One of the things I realised I disliked about her videos is how she would point out everything that was wrong about the current tropes and then leave it at that. I wanted to see what her idea of doing it right, and of ways to actively avoid using the trope. As I asked before: what's right if everything is currently wrong?
So it was nice to see in this latest video that she offers up a concept; but it seem I can't be satisfied! The concept was a basic example and so wasn't going to be a ground-breaking one, but what I found so negative was that such a concepts value only currently exists as a subversion of the trope, rather than being a vehicle for a good experience: It's so much more wrapped up in not being a sexist game than being a good game.
Which is why I think that opinion is so divided for those books/movies/etc. that have a clear subtext of deconstructing the genre. Some people love the subversion while other just want to be entertained - very rarely does the two match.
So I've always held the opinion that games with respective male/female leading roles were meant to be that way for the sake of the game. Of course I understand that unfortunate influence in the form of developer culture/ignorance/bias or publisher influence played a part in it's creation, but for most good games the end result is sincere.
Also how about making that game she suggested instead of making a video series based around regurgitating tropes and making ZERO progress for anything.
So unless she's a game developer she can't talk about these issues? There's plenty of devs on Polycount discussing a lot of issues in our industry, but not all of us are sticking it to the man and making our own games...
To say she's making zero progress is not accurate either. You claim that bad writing is to blame, which everyone is aware of. However, your average consumer does not consider how women are portrayed in their games. She's bringing this issue to light. You can improve your writing and still present your women as objects.
Aggregated data of absolute strength indicates that women have 40-60% the upper body strength of men, and 70-75% the lower body strength.[56]
Women are weaker then men, Fact.
The more I listen to this woman the more I think she is insane.
Here are some things you may want to consider:
a) I don't think she means physically weak, but rather weak in general (ie, also weak willed, not smart, etc).
b) Perhaps she does not mean weak compared to men, but absolutely weak in general. A 911 is not a slow car just because it's slower than a GTR. Similarly, Becca Swanson is not weak because she can only squat 850 pounds.
c) the actual strength difference between male and female athletes corrected for mass (which you can check in that link of yours) is pretty trivial when compared to average people.
d) games are not at all realistic anyway. Magic stars don't make you invincible and you can't recover from being shot in the face in 30 seconds. It wouldn't be the end of the world if male and female characters had the same abilities.
You're kidding me right? Not every narrative is solved with an arm wrestling match.
No, but Sarkeesian doesn't distinguish between the two. There's no debate that people of both genders can have equally strong wills and intellect, but she also chooses to criticize depictions of physically smaller or weaker women as "anti-female", in some misguided notion that if she screams enough about gender dimorphism being sexist, it'll magically disappear. She's trying to expropriate the truth of biological facts about the physical differences between men and women and how those can (not will, mind you, but can) manifest in different roles in some narratives.
I've seen the same argument from radical feminists (at least in the context of the US) about "not enough females in the infantry". Then they get REALLY pissed when you point out that the majority - not all, but the majority - of women are physically unable, due to strength and stature, to pick up and carry a wounded full grown man 100 yards while both of them are in armor and combat gear.
That's not sexism. That's gender dimorphism. It's not a statement about any woman's worth as a fighter, just a factually reality of what they are and aren't physically capable of, and that has a direct impact on what their course of actions would be in a situation.
Yet Sarkeesian is intent, like many of her radical feminist ilk, on trying to use accusations, opinions framed as fact, and negative deconstruction to pave over the basic truth of the influence of biology on people's actions and capabilities in narratives, and replace it with her own impression of reality.
Right, isn't that her exact criticism? That while men are hugely over-exaggerated too with huge muscled space-marines/barbarians, that's a power fantasy, and women are exaggerated in the sexual direction?
So if huge muscles = power, then yeah, the narrative really is solved with an arm wrestling match.
There's a reason boxing has weight classes. You could take the best boxer woman in the world, one who could kick my ass for sure, and you still shouldn't toss her in the ring with a male heavyweight counterpart.
Right, isn't that her exact criticism? That while men are hugely over-exaggerated too with huge muscled space-marines/barbarians, that's a power fantasy, and women are exaggerated in the sexual direction?
So if huge muscles = power, then yeah, the narrative really is solved with an arm wrestling match.
There's a reason boxing has weight classes. You could take the best boxer woman in the world, one who could kick my ass for sure, and you still shouldn't toss her in the ring with a male heavyweight counterpart.
The problem is I don't buy a word of her power fantasy argument, and from this thread, neither do many, many other people.
Her argument also conveniently ignores that what she is calling a "power fantasy" with over-exaggerated muscles, quite a LOT of women would label that a sexuality exaggeration. The "broad shouldered chiseled-chin muscle-bound dashing hunk" male sexual stereotype is hundreds of years old.
While I do think the power fantasy and sexual exaggeration exist and are evident in some games, I do think it is poor to treat them as mutually exclusive. Not all muscle men are power fantasies and not all athletic women are sexual fantasies.
Is nobody going to bring up the fact that commanding people to censor their own creations and media based on what offends or what does not contribute to her (Anita's) agenda and social direction is terrifyingly fascist and generally horrible?
I wish I could make a living off youtube videos containing complete conjecture about this abstraction called "society" that is apparently a hiveminded organism that exists outside of actual people.
In other words, big whoop. Some feminist cries about media not catering to her demands. Doesn't mean she should get her way. If you want to write a story about a ridiculously misogynistic scenario, go ahead. If people enjoy it, it's their business. What modern feminism is attempting is control/conditioning of people. e.g. "You are legally not allowed to make/enjoy x or y because I don't like it"
Is nobody going to bring up the fact that commanding people to censor their own creations and media based on what offends or what does not contribute to her (Anita's) agenda and social direction is terrifyingly fascist and generally horrible?
I wish I could make a living off youtube videos containing complete conjecture about this abstraction called "society" that is apparently a hiveminded organism that exists outside of actual people.
In other words, big whoop. Some feminist cries about media not catering to her demands. Doesn't mean she should get her way. If you want to write a story about a ridiculously misogynistic scenario, go ahead. If people enjoy it, it's their business. What modern feminism is attempting is control/conditioning of people. e.g. "You are legally not allowed to make/enjoy x or y because I don't like it"
well that to me is the ultimate irony in this tale.
She has often said women are portrayed as the victim incapable of helping themselves, has often referred or insinuated the vast majority of developers being male.
and how did she fund these you tube videos? she posted up letters of alleged harassment, played the victim, received over 160,000 dollars in donations which is more than enough for the most inept person to fund a indie game, but of course she doesn't actually engage in as ghandi put it "Being the change you want to see in the world", she just seeks to profit through her reinforcement of stereotypes and victimization of herself....
This thread has been an interesting experience for the last two pages in the sense that I'm actually appalled at the sexism and unwillingness to understand displayed by some in it and would probably have gone into a rage over the video ExcessiveZero posted if I hadn't turned it off halfway through — and I'm a man.
This thread has been an interesting experience for the last two pages in the sense that I'm actually appalled at the sexism and unwillingness to understand displayed by some in it and would probably have gone into a rage over the video ExcessiveZero posted if I hadn't turned it off halfway through and I'm a man.
claim that the subject material is serious business
claim anyone who disagrees simply hates women for some reason
This video pretty much says what I believe. Don't make games to pander to men or women. Pandering is just as bad as alienating.
Just make good games and write good stories with good characters. That should be the main goal.
I'll take a well written, sex bomb of a female character over a poorly written, sexy just to be sexy character any day.
This, forever
And for the record: Anyone can offer criticism of the videogame industry, but simply whining or pointing out obvious faults get's nothing done.
The end user is probably not going to think "Huh this game seems kind of off, I'm going to see if I can find some educational videos on videogame tropes in regards to women on youtube", they wont give a shit, they probably wont notice anything labelled sexist by Sarkeesian in a game unless they just started their social studies or hang around tumblr too much.
If instead you make a game where the gender has no meaning and doesn't make the player question anything (Beyond Good and Evil) you've done more to further equal representation in videogames without sexism than a vlogger ever could.
And for the record: Anyone can offer criticism of the videogame industry, but simply whining or pointing out obvious faults get's nothing done.
The end user is probably not going to think "Huh this game seems kind of off, I'm going to see if I can find some educational videos on videogame tropes in regards to women on youtube", they wont give a shit, they probably wont notice anything labelled sexist by Sarkeesian in a game unless they just started their social studies or hang around tumblr too much.
If instead you make a game where the gender has no meaning and doesn't make the player question anything (Beyond Good and Evil) you've done more to further equal representation in videogames without sexism than a vlogger ever could.
so basically the "well then why wont YOU make a better game?"-argument again?
if someone critize something they think is wrong, it doesnt have to be backed by a complete solutuion of that problem. havent you ever complained about late trains? then i could say the same; "why dont YOU start your own railway company?"
point is, of course its legimite to JUST critize. critic rests on its on merits.
so basically the "well then why wont YOU make a better game?"-argument again?
if someone critize something they think is wrong, it doesnt have to be backed by a complete solutuion of that problem. havent you ever complained about late trains? then i could say the same; "why dont YOU start your own railway company?"
point is, of course its legimite to JUST critize. critic rests on its on merits.
complaints about late trains are effortless to make, and can be effortlessly dismissed. actually making even one game is worth a hundred million trivial posts about How Games Ought To Be Made.
That is bullshit, a vast swathe of women quite clearly have power fantasies about men, its not just physical though, sometimes its magical vampire shit (twilight) sometimes its financial or sexual dominance (50 shades of grey) Power comes in many forms, and if you lack any power or independence as a man, society in general looks down upon you.
The simplification of the argument to peoples opinions as if its fact is crazy when you use any sort of critical thinking, to think the argument is as simple as that from a male perspective alone is insulting especially when a woman is portraying a male stock character strawman.
complaints about late trains are effortless to make, and can be effortlessly dismissed. actually making even one game is worth a hundred million trivial posts about How Games Ought To Be Made.
Something I respect is people who review films with film studies degrees, because not only they have researched film in depth but are required to make a film as part of their education, my girlfriend has her masters in film, and may surprise many of you is a feminist.
Videogame Critiques are often coming from gamers and loud mouths, not designers or people that even remotely have a clue on what goes into it, theres a real trend where being negative will get them more views or reads, and ultimately while we have a product to sell a game, they have a product to sell a story.
You would imagine that a board full of people interested in development wouldn't be too happy about attempts to censor and control media under a flimsy guise of "social responsibility." It's basically some people saying that products, that have nothing to do with them, somehow harm them, and linking media they don't like to actual harm against people
The He-Man pic brings up a valid point at face value, but when you look at it more deeply it boils down to: Men have more expectations heaped upon them. (barbie is vapidly hot, He-Man is strong, handsome, skilled, heroic, basically a paragon of virtue). A man has to have skills and be handsome to appeal to women (actor, athlete, businessman, something), a woman just has to be hot.
This is kinda unfair, but that's because women have woefully little expected of them nowadays. A woman can just be a decent looking and spread her legs and everyone acts like that's fine. It's not fine. The expectations placed on men are not abnormally high, they are what should be expected of all people, and the tropes in videogames are damaging because of that. They marginalize women down to that basic hot and slutty stereotype, which is exactly where they shouldn't be. The expectations for both men and women should be high, because excellence should be what everyone strives for. When men and women both show that women can get by with a boob-job and a sex-drive it sets the bar far too low for half the people on this planet.
tl;dr: He-Man is who he has to be be, Barbie needs to be more.
Well... but then again... Barbie is a beautiful woman with a myriad of self-developed skills (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbie%27s_careers), a supportive relationship with a homosexual boyfriend, and money enough to buy a dream house. Honestly, if that's not an admirable role model for any human being, then I don't know what is. What do boys have as a role model? A random parade of muscle guys who punch things real hard fur 'Merica! Most of them don't even have anything to do with their power, they just got it randomly from a spider or something. He-man is a useless pansy who's every redeeming quality comes from a forged piece of metal. He's an empty power-fantasy, not a role model.
tl;dr: Barbie is who she needs to be, He-Man is a stupid lie.
Well, guess this won't be solved overnight. Time to start drinking.
Most of them don't even have anything to do with their power, they just got it randomly from a spider or something.
Lol! Last week I got bit by a poisonous spider right bellow my eye (why I have been on forums so much the past week, medication has me dopey and sweating),thing was crawling on my face while I slept a cousin of a black widow, didn't get any powers at least not yet!had alot of spiderman jokes though.
venom just instantly burned inside where it bit Face swelled up, went numb and because of the bacteria they have had to go on some strong antibiotics, crazy stuff, Neurotoxin made my heart a bit jumpy but also made me feel good it can release serotonin oddly.
So yeah as last Friday night was a example to me, media is not representative of real life, even the best representation of media of building power, rocky training montage is incredibly short compared to real life.
many characters in films are rarely shown as increasing their wealth more locked into the life they are given, so in a way its saying not only should you be this strong or rich person or have a unquestionable power, but it should also be effortless to you, and if it isn't there's something wrong with you.
and I doubt anyone here has not faced creative demons(if you haven't I demand your secrets!) and not felt that pressure.
i guess the main point of this is that "we can do better" at portraying both genders in games. or more to the point, we can do better by not using gender as a tool in games.
i think a great example are the uncharted games, there are many times throughout the storyline where Nathan is both the savior and the saved, similarly the female characters are both the savior and the saved. at the start of the first game Nathan comes off as pretty cocky, self centered, a bit of a womanizer... but as you progress his attitude shifts as he realises he can't do half this shit without help from the female cast, and that the female cast are more than capable of sorting themselves out without him.
the characters in those games seem to be created without any kind of stereotype in mind, and that's a great thing.
WITH THAT SAID THOUGH.
there are occasions when both sides of this argument take it too far, or even use it selectively. i cannot count the number of times i've seen so called feminists arguing for equality for women, yet when they are treated as equal they turn around with "you can't do that to a woman".
example:
for this last month i've been commuting to and from london. there was an interesting conversation i overheard between two people on the underground, about salaries and expectations at work.
she said something along the lines of - "it's unfair that i have to work the same amount of hours as jim, but get paid less. we have the same responsibilities, workloads, and qualifications. we just work for two different people within the company".
he said - "i completely agree, it could just be that he's been there longer, but yeah you should get the same".
and then a few stops later when she was still standing she said - "i wish one of these guys would stand up and let me sit down, aren't guys supposed to do that for girls?"
all the while i was just thinking "yep... you absolutely want things fair and equal between men and women".
there is nothing wrong with self-censoring overused tropes once those tropes have been fully explored and found to be somewhat shallow, and there is nothing wrong with calling for more people to self-censor and explore subjects in a more robust way. its part of growing up as an individual and as an community/industry
IF video games were tackling moral issues with the witticism of Ricky Gevais I wouldn't think there would be much of a problem but they are not. they have developed from child to teenager with some leanings toward showing adult behaviour when visited by older relatives BUT still generally behave like a bunch of teenage twats when left to their own devices.
as much as it easy to find holes in her details, her main point is strong and cannot be denied. she's not saying all stories involving gender should be utterly PC just that the breadth of stories needs to be widened and the mean point of gender perspective moved away from the male centric point of view to make the medium attractive to the mainstream of women players who are not attracted by the strip/boys club mentality displayed. I would even go as afar as saying there are a fair few men who are also put off by this, at least to the point of talking about it socially, helping to enforcing the nerdish/manboy/unsocial stereotype.
there is nothing wrong with self-censoring overused tropes once those tropes have been fully explored and found to be somewhat shallow, and there is nothing wrong with calling for more people to self-censor and explore subjects in a more robust way. its part of growing up as an individual and as an community/industry
IF video games were tackling moral issues with the witticism of Ricky Gevais I wouldn't think there would be much of a problem but they are not. they have developed from child to teenager with some leanings toward showing adult behaviour when visited by older relatives BUT still generally behave like a bunch of teenage twats when left to their own devices.
as much as it easy to find holes in her details, her main point is strong and cannot be denied. she's not saying all stories involving gender should be utterly PC just that the breadth of stories needs to be widened and the mean point of gender perspective moved away from the male centric point of view to make the medium attractive to the mainstream of women players who are not attracted by the strip/boys club mentality displayed. I would even go as afar as saying there are a fair few men who are also put off by this, at least to the point of talking about it socially, helping to enforcing the nerdish/manboy/unsocial stereotype.
"Self" is the key word here. Self-guidance would mean an organic shift from Duke nukem style shit to mature-ish games e.g. Bioshock, Fallout, Mass Effect? for example (despite the legions of idiots saying Ken Levine somehow hates all black people for not making the entire game about slavery)
Self-control is fine. Entitled people wanting to jab their fingers into other people's property and creations? Not as much.
After all, the Darrow conversation in Deus Ex: Human Revolution itself taught us that you can't force people to change to fit your views.
Virtually all modern games assume the player is illiterate. That's why the flavor text in ME2 is read for you. That is what gamers think is progress...
Don't worry Polycount. The girl who faces unending rape and death threats for making Youtubez is not going to take away your precious bro games! It's absolutely legal for you to keep making art as tasteless as you like.
[edit]
I figured most of the people on here wouldn't understand what I meant by that. so let me make it a bit clearer. This is the situation:
People on Polycount are complaining bitterly and angrily that a person making a polite and somewhat-well-researched Youtube video expressing an opinion is actually an attempt somehow to stop them from making the art they like.
Meanwhile the person who made this video is being threatened with bodily harm on a regular basis for making a video.
So if you actually want to stand up for people making what they like, maybe you should just chill out about people making youtube videos, and also, until you are being threatened with rape and murder, or some kind of censorship, maybe you shouldn't get so defensive.
complaints about late trains are effortless to make, and can be effortlessly dismissed. actually making even one game is worth a hundred million trivial posts about How Games Ought To Be Made.
well i would say that if all the games are made poorly, and it takes one "trivial" post to start a much needed discussion on how games ought to be made, that post is worth a lot.
Virtually all modern games assume the player is illiterate. That's why the flavor text in ME2 is read for you. That is what gamers think is progress...
Don't worry Polycount. The girl who faces unending rape and death threats for making Youtubez is not going to take away your precious bro games! It's absolutely legal for you to keep making art as tasteless as you like.
[edit]
I figured most of the people on here wouldn't understand what I meant by that. so let me make it a bit clearer. This is the situation:
People on Polycount are complaining bitterly and angrily that a person making a polite and somewhat-well-researched Youtube video expressing an opinion is actually an attempt somehow to stop them from making the art they like.
Meanwhile the person who made this video is being threatened with bodily harm on a regular basis for making a video.
So if you actually want to stand up for people making what they like, maybe you should just chill out about people making youtube videos, and also, until you are being threatened with rape and murder, or some kind of censorship, maybe you shouldn't get so defensive.
Lugaru: The Rabbit's Foot
As Turner, a well-trained ninja rabbit, you fight through a detailed 3D world to avenge the death of your wife and daughter and to expose a deadly lupine conspiracy. Be advised that this game contains brutal, bloody, rabbit combat.
Check it out and try the free demo
So this one of the games your company has worked on right?
You quite clearly have a low opinion of gamers, and are against the games your company is producing, so it leaves me to wonder, just what exactly are you doing in this industry?
Lugaru: The Rabbit's Foot
As Turner, a well-trained ninja rabbit, you fight through a detailed 3D world to avenge the death of your wife and daughter and to expose a deadly lupine conspiracy. Be advised that this game contains brutal, bloody, rabbit combat.
Check it out and try the free demo
So this one of the games your company has worked on right?
You quite clearly have a low opinion of gamers, and are against the games your company is producing, so it leaves me to wonder, just what exactly are you doing in this industry?
I'm not sure how you construe standing up for people to make what they want as being against the games my company has made. I personally kind of like trashy art anyhow, but I'm not so stupid that I'm unable to identify it.
Also, we are not "producing" that game, David developed it -- 8 years ago, when he was in high school. Judging from your post history, if I was able to find something you made 8 years ago it would probably be in crayon.
I'm in this industry because I love video games as a medium, and it's pretty clear to me that if I don't make games I like, then nobody else will.
Virtually all modern games assume the player is illiterate. That's why the flavor text in ME2 is read for you. That is what gamers think is progress...
Don't worry Polycount. The girl who faces unending rape and death threats for making Youtubez is not going to take away your precious bro games! It's absolutely legal for you to keep making art as tasteless as you like.
[edit]
I figured most of the people on here wouldn't understand what I meant by that. so let me make it a bit clearer. This is the situation:
People on Polycount are complaining bitterly and angrily that a person making a polite and somewhat-well-researched Youtube video expressing an opinion is actually an attempt somehow to stop them from making the art they like.
Meanwhile the person who made this video is being threatened with bodily harm on a regular basis for making a video.
So if you actually want to stand up for people making what they like, maybe you should just chill out about people making youtube videos, and also, until you are being threatened with rape and murder, or some kind of censorship, maybe you shouldn't get so defensive.
As far as I can tell, nobody here is defending the rape threats.
The popular feminist view seems to be "You disgusting man-pigs should be censored from making things that offend me because I say so." The fact that this type of thing is becoming popular is a threat to freedom of expression (oh wait, feminists totally love freedom of speech). So yeah, we (creatives) are facing possible censorship if this conjecture and appeal to emotion is made legislation. Feminist, or rather collectivist in general, ideology is currently ingraining its roots into NASA, with members saying that NASA should recruit more women based just on the fact that they happen to be women, and to hell with qualified or deserving staff, to hell with what actual women want to do with their lives as individual human beings (which is nice and ironic, really). People produce and consume what appeals to them and what they can afford (the will and the means) - it's not a patriarchal conspiracy for maximum oppression of women, as most of Tumblr or a sociology course would have you believe.
EDIT: Also, the irony is almost painful. Lots of blog posts and shit by men telling other men that women do not enjoy particular types of male bodies or have a desire for a ridiculous, unrealistic hourglass figure. Way to go, feminism.
The charge: Multiple counts of intellectual dishonesty.
The sentence: Death.
Replies
Admittedly, I've only managed to make it through about 10 of the 40+ pages that this thread has generated (and subsequently, I might repeat something that has already been covered...). I can understand a lot of what is being said, and can even appreciate the arguments raised in the "Damsel in Distress:Critical Context." Wouldn't it be better to join in and help improve the arguments, instead of just finding ways to argue why they're wrong?
As an artist, I certainly appreciate someone taking the time to help me improve, and giving me specifics on what I'm doing wrong and how I can improve them. It has never helped me to just tell me I suck.
She's not interested in constructive critique. She's a radical feminist engaging in what's called critical theory. Critical theory - the deconstructive method she's applying - isn't about improving something. It's about tearing it down. It's about pure criticism to debase something. One of the biggest issues many social philosophers have with her school of postmodernist thought is that critical theory never provides legitimate alternatives or constructive options, only destructive (thus the term "deconstruction").
If she was conducting legitimate research and providing credible historical and sociological analysis without the extremely radical bias she's injected, lots of people here (me included) would be more than happy, THRILLED even, to debate and work with her constructively to make positive changes, but she's only interested in attacking.
In short, don't feed the troll.
Either way, someone could pull her aside and say "you need to stay on track, don't lose your cool, and keep it constructive and informative, or you're going to start alienating people."
Look at any random post where people are hating on a girl for her body type. AT the top of the comments section you will invariable see a highly rated message telling the haters to basically stfu and go kick rocks. This strongly implies one thing initially. The number of people who thumb those comments up outweigh the negative comments by many dozens to one. They're usually over a hundred to one.
But even MORE interesting is this. GO through the comments and identify which ones are slamming the person. You will find those are almost always female. Male comments are nearly non-existant. I've done it on several facebook pictures and youtube videos.
WOmen have only thems selves to blame for the 'pressure.' Who buys those idiotic magazines at the supermarket? Guys?
In a world where there is intense pressure to be pc 24/7 simple truths that are not so pleasant often go unonoticed and even un stated for fear of persectuion.
Not to mention the fact that male action heroes are always msuclebound and handsome. Who gives a flying flip? The materialistic ones do. That's who.
As in how talking about it and doing research, analyses and opinion on the matter appear to move things more slowly than actually building something. Just as all of those essays, journals, and research reports do practically nothing for the lay-man until somebody builds something based upon their findings.
I completely understand the idea behind the video, and it would be great to see more strong women portraying lead characters but this woman has something to prove.
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argh. ok, so I can see where she's on track and means well, and I can see where my own innate self-defence-mechanism kicks in.
BUT
I recognize that she's a smart person, and she proves it at points through out her videos. Maybe some one could really proof read and second/third opinion the wording?
In the mean time, I'm re-thinking my own stories and re-writing some old projects with some of the information I've gotten from this.
I must admit, I really am going to miss saving women though, and being all like, a hero and stuff.
Good times.
I still don't like any of her other videos for aforementioned reasons, but this one was a refreshing improvement.
So all in all I can agree with her that the trope, no matter how you rearrange it, is still weak and lazy, at least in the way that people have historically been using it in games. I've seen that a lot in my gaming experience, and it actually does get old. Along with seeing more female protagonists (and character depth), I would love to see alternative motivations/justification for gameplay explored.
I suppose this is following the formula of lengthy academic essays, but still - after 5 minutes of sitting through this, I just want to know her points and conclusions. She might benefit from adopting a format more appropriate to youtube, with links to more detailed videos with her observations and criticism of specific games related to the issue, for instance. That would be a good way for her to show what she loves about BGaE, why Princess Peach is a bad joke, without slowing down her main Tropes videos to a crawl.
Makkon : yeah I agree, this kind of narrative is really boring. Ironically, I think it works quite well when used in its most basic form (setting some kind of goal to reach - be it a Damsel, a dog or a tincan ... it doesn't really matter). But yeah, in recent "serious" games and movies, it's really quite lazy and stupid.
Some of the shit she spouts has merit but most is, as mentioned, deconstructive criticism and shallow whining.
I watched this one because it didn't start with something as stupid as a "trigger warning".
So far she's gotten 150k and made 1 hours worth of a Trope List and criticising lazy writing/means to an end "story" elements often introduced ironically but hey context isn't real only feels right?
It also irks me how she presents all her shit as complete fact, that she is the end all voice in regards to sexism in fiction, that irony, tone, humour and context has NO PLACE IN THIS DISCUSSION BECAUSE PEOPLE PLAYING THESE GAMES WILL LIGHT WOMEN ON FIRE.
Also how about making that game she suggested instead of making a video series based around regurgitating tropes and making ZERO progress for anything.
I'm just going to wait for one of the numerous videos that will reply to this picking apart her non existent arguments.
And as always, perceived sexism in fiction is not real sexism. If you seriously carry over ideas of sexism from fiction: Something is wrong with YOU, not the fucking fiction.
Just because she doesn't organize her videos in the best way doesn't mean the problem isn't there. Video games have a huge problem with sexism and shallow female characters, which are directly caused by bad writing. I don't think calling attention to it is a bad thing.
Of course, it's just everyone knows and is aware of this. And the ones who are not probably don't care. But the baseline is of course as you said: Bad Writing, which we're thankfully seeing big changes in newer games, thanks to better technology and years of knowledge in regards to what makes captivating gameplay.
Some games are narrow in what they want to do and as such just throw in a simple cause for the sake presenting some tangible effect (Super Meat Boy) Others weave a proper story around why the game is the way it is and presents the player with multiple goals tied to it (Bastion)
Both are good, one has lazier writing but it fits the game, neither promotes sexism.
I've yet to play a game where you rack up points for specifically beating up, demeaning or in any other way mistreat women and have that be the goal from both a gameplay and story perspective. If such a game exists, then yes, that is sexist, otherwise, stop digging.
She relates this to video games, "mass media entertainment doesn't just reflect our culture, it also serves to create it". There may be nothing particularly sexist about a man rescuing a woman, however her belief is that the overuse of it associates women with helplessness that has broader impacts to how women are seen and treated throughout society as well as how they see themselves.
So it was nice to see in this latest video that she offers up a concept; but it seem I can't be satisfied! The concept was a basic example and so wasn't going to be a ground-breaking one, but what I found so negative was that such a concepts value only currently exists as a subversion of the trope, rather than being a vehicle for a good experience: It's so much more wrapped up in not being a sexist game than being a good game.
Which is why I think that opinion is so divided for those books/movies/etc. that have a clear subtext of deconstructing the genre. Some people love the subversion while other just want to be entertained - very rarely does the two match.
So I've always held the opinion that games with respective male/female leading roles were meant to be that way for the sake of the game. Of course I understand that unfortunate influence in the form of developer culture/ignorance/bias or publisher influence played a part in it's creation, but for most good games the end result is sincere.
"Women are portrayed as stereotypically weak because of their gender"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_dimorphism#Humans
Aggregated data of absolute strength indicates that women have 40-60% the upper body strength of men, and 70-75% the lower body strength.[56]
Women are weaker then men, Fact.
The more I listen to this woman the more I think she is insane.
So unless she's a game developer she can't talk about these issues? There's plenty of devs on Polycount discussing a lot of issues in our industry, but not all of us are sticking it to the man and making our own games...
To say she's making zero progress is not accurate either. You claim that bad writing is to blame, which everyone is aware of. However, your average consumer does not consider how women are portrayed in their games. She's bringing this issue to light. You can improve your writing and still present your women as objects.
You're kidding me right? Not every narrative is solved with an arm wrestling match.
Here are some things you may want to consider:
a) I don't think she means physically weak, but rather weak in general (ie, also weak willed, not smart, etc).
b) Perhaps she does not mean weak compared to men, but absolutely weak in general. A 911 is not a slow car just because it's slower than a GTR. Similarly, Becca Swanson is not weak because she can only squat 850 pounds.
c) the actual strength difference between male and female athletes corrected for mass (which you can check in that link of yours) is pretty trivial when compared to average people.
d) games are not at all realistic anyway. Magic stars don't make you invincible and you can't recover from being shot in the face in 30 seconds. It wouldn't be the end of the world if male and female characters had the same abilities.
No, but Sarkeesian doesn't distinguish between the two. There's no debate that people of both genders can have equally strong wills and intellect, but she also chooses to criticize depictions of physically smaller or weaker women as "anti-female", in some misguided notion that if she screams enough about gender dimorphism being sexist, it'll magically disappear. She's trying to expropriate the truth of biological facts about the physical differences between men and women and how those can (not will, mind you, but can) manifest in different roles in some narratives.
I've seen the same argument from radical feminists (at least in the context of the US) about "not enough females in the infantry". Then they get REALLY pissed when you point out that the majority - not all, but the majority - of women are physically unable, due to strength and stature, to pick up and carry a wounded full grown man 100 yards while both of them are in armor and combat gear.
That's not sexism. That's gender dimorphism. It's not a statement about any woman's worth as a fighter, just a factually reality of what they are and aren't physically capable of, and that has a direct impact on what their course of actions would be in a situation.
Yet Sarkeesian is intent, like many of her radical feminist ilk, on trying to use accusations, opinions framed as fact, and negative deconstruction to pave over the basic truth of the influence of biology on people's actions and capabilities in narratives, and replace it with her own impression of reality.
So if huge muscles = power, then yeah, the narrative really is solved with an arm wrestling match.
There's a reason boxing has weight classes. You could take the best boxer woman in the world, one who could kick my ass for sure, and you still shouldn't toss her in the ring with a male heavyweight counterpart.
The problem is I don't buy a word of her power fantasy argument, and from this thread, neither do many, many other people.
Her argument also conveniently ignores that what she is calling a "power fantasy" with over-exaggerated muscles, quite a LOT of women would label that a sexuality exaggeration. The "broad shouldered chiseled-chin muscle-bound dashing hunk" male sexual stereotype is hundreds of years old.
[ame="
[ame="
[ame="
I wish I could make a living off youtube videos containing complete conjecture about this abstraction called "society" that is apparently a hiveminded organism that exists outside of actual people.
In other words, big whoop. Some feminist cries about media not catering to her demands. Doesn't mean she should get her way. If you want to write a story about a ridiculously misogynistic scenario, go ahead. If people enjoy it, it's their business. What modern feminism is attempting is control/conditioning of people.
e.g. "You are legally not allowed to make/enjoy x or y because I don't like it"
She has often said women are portrayed as the victim incapable of helping themselves, has often referred or insinuated the vast majority of developers being male.
and how did she fund these you tube videos? she posted up letters of alleged harassment, played the victim, received over 160,000 dollars in donations which is more than enough for the most inept person to fund a indie game, but of course she doesn't actually engage in as ghandi put it "Being the change you want to see in the world", she just seeks to profit through her reinforcement of stereotypes and victimization of herself....
This video pretty much says what I believe. Don't make games to pander to men or women. Pandering is just as bad as alienating.
Just make good games and write good stories with good characters. That should be the main goal.
I'll take a well written, sex bomb of a female character over a poorly written, sexy just to be sexy character any day.
This, forever
And for the record: Anyone can offer criticism of the videogame industry, but simply whining or pointing out obvious faults get's nothing done.
The end user is probably not going to think "Huh this game seems kind of off, I'm going to see if I can find some educational videos on videogame tropes in regards to women on youtube", they wont give a shit, they probably wont notice anything labelled sexist by Sarkeesian in a game unless they just started their social studies or hang around tumblr too much.
If instead you make a game where the gender has no meaning and doesn't make the player question anything (Beyond Good and Evil) you've done more to further equal representation in videogames without sexism than a vlogger ever could.
so basically the "well then why wont YOU make a better game?"-argument again?
if someone critize something they think is wrong, it doesnt have to be backed by a complete solutuion of that problem. havent you ever complained about late trains? then i could say the same; "why dont YOU start your own railway company?"
point is, of course its legimite to JUST critize. critic rests on its on merits.
Here's the page, as there are a lot of good comments from REAL WOMEN who can offer some of their perspectives and experiences on what it's like to be marginalized and objectified in media.
http://www.shortpacked.com/2011/comic/book-13/05-the-death-of-snkrs/falseequivalence/
That is bullshit, a vast swathe of women quite clearly have power fantasies about men, its not just physical though, sometimes its magical vampire shit (twilight) sometimes its financial or sexual dominance (50 shades of grey) Power comes in many forms, and if you lack any power or independence as a man, society in general looks down upon you.
The simplification of the argument to peoples opinions as if its fact is crazy when you use any sort of critical thinking, to think the argument is as simple as that from a male perspective alone is insulting especially when a woman is portraying a male stock character strawman.
Something I respect is people who review films with film studies degrees, because not only they have researched film in depth but are required to make a film as part of their education, my girlfriend has her masters in film, and may surprise many of you is a feminist.
Videogame Critiques are often coming from gamers and loud mouths, not designers or people that even remotely have a clue on what goes into it, theres a real trend where being negative will get them more views or reads, and ultimately while we have a product to sell a game, they have a product to sell a story.
Like a lot of political movements and ideology groups today, feminists don't seem to realise that other people are not theirs to control in such a way that is "productive" and not "problematic" to their narrative.
Basically this:
The He-Man pic brings up a valid point at face value, but when you look at it more deeply it boils down to: Men have more expectations heaped upon them. (barbie is vapidly hot, He-Man is strong, handsome, skilled, heroic, basically a paragon of virtue). A man has to have skills and be handsome to appeal to women (actor, athlete, businessman, something), a woman just has to be hot.
This is kinda unfair, but that's because women have woefully little expected of them nowadays. A woman can just be a decent looking and spread her legs and everyone acts like that's fine. It's not fine. The expectations placed on men are not abnormally high, they are what should be expected of all people, and the tropes in videogames are damaging because of that. They marginalize women down to that basic hot and slutty stereotype, which is exactly where they shouldn't be. The expectations for both men and women should be high, because excellence should be what everyone strives for. When men and women both show that women can get by with a boob-job and a sex-drive it sets the bar far too low for half the people on this planet.
tl;dr: He-Man is who he has to be be, Barbie needs to be more.
Well... but then again... Barbie is a beautiful woman with a myriad of self-developed skills (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbie%27s_careers), a supportive relationship with a homosexual boyfriend, and money enough to buy a dream house. Honestly, if that's not an admirable role model for any human being, then I don't know what is. What do boys have as a role model? A random parade of muscle guys who punch things real hard fur 'Merica! Most of them don't even have anything to do with their power, they just got it randomly from a spider or something. He-man is a useless pansy who's every redeeming quality comes from a forged piece of metal. He's an empty power-fantasy, not a role model.
tl;dr: Barbie is who she needs to be, He-Man is a stupid lie.
Well, guess this won't be solved overnight. Time to start drinking.
Lol! Last week I got bit by a poisonous spider right bellow my eye (why I have been on forums so much the past week, medication has me dopey and sweating),thing was crawling on my face while I slept a cousin of a black widow, didn't get any powers at least not yet!had alot of spiderman jokes though.
venom just instantly burned inside where it bit Face swelled up, went numb and because of the bacteria they have had to go on some strong antibiotics, crazy stuff, Neurotoxin made my heart a bit jumpy but also made me feel good it can release serotonin oddly.
So yeah as last Friday night was a example to me, media is not representative of real life, even the best representation of media of building power, rocky training montage is incredibly short compared to real life.
many characters in films are rarely shown as increasing their wealth more locked into the life they are given, so in a way its saying not only should you be this strong or rich person or have a unquestionable power, but it should also be effortless to you, and if it isn't there's something wrong with you.
and I doubt anyone here has not faced creative demons(if you haven't I demand your secrets!) and not felt that pressure.
i guess the main point of this is that "we can do better" at portraying both genders in games. or more to the point, we can do better by not using gender as a tool in games.
i think a great example are the uncharted games, there are many times throughout the storyline where Nathan is both the savior and the saved, similarly the female characters are both the savior and the saved. at the start of the first game Nathan comes off as pretty cocky, self centered, a bit of a womanizer... but as you progress his attitude shifts as he realises he can't do half this shit without help from the female cast, and that the female cast are more than capable of sorting themselves out without him.
the characters in those games seem to be created without any kind of stereotype in mind, and that's a great thing.
WITH THAT SAID THOUGH.
there are occasions when both sides of this argument take it too far, or even use it selectively. i cannot count the number of times i've seen so called feminists arguing for equality for women, yet when they are treated as equal they turn around with "you can't do that to a woman".
example:
for this last month i've been commuting to and from london. there was an interesting conversation i overheard between two people on the underground, about salaries and expectations at work.
she said something along the lines of - "it's unfair that i have to work the same amount of hours as jim, but get paid less. we have the same responsibilities, workloads, and qualifications. we just work for two different people within the company".
he said - "i completely agree, it could just be that he's been there longer, but yeah you should get the same".
and then a few stops later when she was still standing she said - "i wish one of these guys would stand up and let me sit down, aren't guys supposed to do that for girls?"
all the while i was just thinking "yep... you absolutely want things fair and equal between men and women".
IF video games were tackling moral issues with the witticism of Ricky Gevais I wouldn't think there would be much of a problem but they are not. they have developed from child to teenager with some leanings toward showing adult behaviour when visited by older relatives BUT still generally behave like a bunch of teenage twats when left to their own devices.
as much as it easy to find holes in her details, her main point is strong and cannot be denied. she's not saying all stories involving gender should be utterly PC just that the breadth of stories needs to be widened and the mean point of gender perspective moved away from the male centric point of view to make the medium attractive to the mainstream of women players who are not attracted by the strip/boys club mentality displayed. I would even go as afar as saying there are a fair few men who are also put off by this, at least to the point of talking about it socially, helping to enforcing the nerdish/manboy/unsocial stereotype.
"Self" is the key word here. Self-guidance would mean an organic shift from Duke nukem style shit to mature-ish games e.g. Bioshock, Fallout, Mass Effect? for example (despite the legions of idiots saying Ken Levine somehow hates all black people for not making the entire game about slavery)
Self-control is fine. Entitled people wanting to jab their fingers into other people's property and creations? Not as much.
After all, the Darrow conversation in Deus Ex: Human Revolution itself taught us that you can't force people to change to fit your views.
Don't worry Polycount. The girl who faces unending rape and death threats for making Youtubez is not going to take away your precious bro games! It's absolutely legal for you to keep making art as tasteless as you like.
[edit]
I figured most of the people on here wouldn't understand what I meant by that. so let me make it a bit clearer. This is the situation:
People on Polycount are complaining bitterly and angrily that a person making a polite and somewhat-well-researched Youtube video expressing an opinion is actually an attempt somehow to stop them from making the art they like.
Meanwhile the person who made this video is being threatened with bodily harm on a regular basis for making a video.
So if you actually want to stand up for people making what they like, maybe you should just chill out about people making youtube videos, and also, until you are being threatened with rape and murder, or some kind of censorship, maybe you shouldn't get so defensive.
well i would say that if all the games are made poorly, and it takes one "trivial" post to start a much needed discussion on how games ought to be made, that post is worth a lot.
Lugaru: The Rabbit's Foot
As Turner, a well-trained ninja rabbit, you fight through a detailed 3D world to avenge the death of your wife and daughter and to expose a deadly lupine conspiracy. Be advised that this game contains brutal, bloody, rabbit combat.
Check it out and try the free demo
So this one of the games your company has worked on right?
You quite clearly have a low opinion of gamers, and are against the games your company is producing, so it leaves me to wonder, just what exactly are you doing in this industry?
I'm not sure how you construe standing up for people to make what they want as being against the games my company has made. I personally kind of like trashy art anyhow, but I'm not so stupid that I'm unable to identify it.
Also, we are not "producing" that game, David developed it -- 8 years ago, when he was in high school. Judging from your post history, if I was able to find something you made 8 years ago it would probably be in crayon.
I'm in this industry because I love video games as a medium, and it's pretty clear to me that if I don't make games I like, then nobody else will.
EDIT: Also, the irony is almost painful. Lots of blog posts and shit by men telling other men that women do not enjoy particular types of male bodies or have a desire for a ridiculous, unrealistic hourglass figure. Way to go, feminism.
The charge: Multiple counts of intellectual dishonesty.
The sentence: Death.