UDK Underground Mine.

R00

Hey All,

Here is the final Fly through. I know it is lacking in some areas but these are areas I will be addressing in the projects to come. Thanks to everyone for the great feedback!

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76KUlPzBIMg"]Underground Flythrough. - YouTube[/ame]

On to the next project!

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Carry on if you wish to read more about this thread



I'm currently on a break at college so though I'd use this time make something. I'm still relatively new to UDK so if there is something blatantly wrong please let me know.


Here is my concept I'm working from.





http://cghub.com/images/view/85537/


Modular Breakdown:


Red = Modular.
Blue = Unique assets.
Green = Decals.


I've have also attached some screen shots of my level too in UDK. I'm a bit bugged out why some of my corners on my pillars are showing black lines and can't work out wether it's due to light maps or the normals so if anyone can shed some light on this that'd be great too.


The Scorpion Vehicle is from the Unreal Engine and is there to represent the scale of the map.


I will try post some more updates later

SirCalalot

The issue with the pillars looks more like a Normals problem rather than light maps.
Try inverting the green channel before baking the Normals out again.

I'll hold off any critiques until you've come further with the scene.
I love the concept and can't wait to see where you take this

*Subscribed*

R00

You Gem! Cheers man thats been bugging the living days out of me for an hour or so now.

Here is what it should look like.



Thanks for holding back on the crit too :P I'm sure theres gonna be a bit but I welcome it, anything to make me a better artist.

sltrOlsson

Cool stuff, it's hard to really crit anything yet. I think that you should widen the distance between the pillars though. And also, you should make blockouts for everything before you actually do them. Less scale problems and such.

R00

Agreed sltrOlsson! I just got a bit carried away with myself. I'm gonna have a fiddle around with the pillars but I think it's the concepts wide angle which makes it look wider than it is. I may be able to emulate this in UDK I don't know (Just for screen grabs not a fly through). But yes more blockout!

SirCalalot

Looking at the concept again, a lot of the scene can be made from larger modular chunks created in Max/Maya than you already have planned.



If you excuse the quick and dirtiness of the paint-over, I've highlighted a much bigger modular piece that you could create.
It includes one pillar, the floor, ceiling and sloped wall. Then you could make the pipes and switchbox as seperate pieces for some variation amongst the walls.
Then other large modulars would be the central corridoor floor and ceiling pieces.

This'll help you to block out your scene in a moddelling program too, rather than having to place every pillar and line them up with every wall panel etc. separately both there and in UDK.

Hope that helps, and it's mainly just something to remember for the future as you have already got them blocked out here

R00

Hey all,

Cheers for that simple breakdown SirCalalot, I should have probably looked at the bigger picture. I've had a few problems with snapping to the grid today but all is fixed and the results have been good. I've blocked out the rock face but not sure wether to build a high poly to bake down, what do you think?

I've generated a normal from NDO2 for the grill part of the floor, but it's just so I have something to look at whilst blocking out the scene.

here is a little update, let me know what you think.

R00

Just an update as I had a rest this weekend. Been working on the rock wall, I didn't want to make it too high poly but enough to add variation and break up the primitive shapes. I haven't applied the spec map or worked on the texture properly yet.

If you guys have any ideas which could help this scene that'd be great

SirCalalot

It's looking pretty solid.
Again, it's hard to critique on much until you've come a bit further with the scene.

Don't forget about the rectangular lights in the floor behind the pillars though.
That's where the majority of scene lighting will be coming from later

R00

Hey all,

Another update for you. It's not much as I've been trying to work out ways to break up the modularity down the line. Here are some Ideas I've come up with to break it up:

Wood Sheets.
Boiler Unit.
Doors.
Sound Alarm.

I'm quite stumped bar that. This type of facilities are generally quite empty but any suggestions would be great.

Been updating textures to achieve a realistic feel.

Blaisoid

i really like this kind of environments, i'd kill to get to explore such place in real life.

on the concept you can see that pillars have vertical stripes on them, making the texture more interesting. ceiling beams have horizontal stripe pattern as well.
i think edges of your pillars are too soft at the moment.

R00

Hey Blaisoid. That was the main reason I chose this type of scene. It's really interesting and this could lead to anywhere in the world. Thanks for pointing that out, I will amend that.

Thanks for that advice... Big fan of your texture work by the way so thanks for having a look at my stuff

R00

Another update on my level. I decided to improve as the pipes have to end somewhere. The boiler unit doesn't have a spec map yet hence it looking a bit flat as well as the plain texture which are currently applied. Would like to find a easy way to generate a realtime reflection but my first attempt was a bit of a fail.

Ignore the pipes as they have not been unwrapped yet

R00

Been working on some assets over the past couple of days and refining certain areas of the level.

R00

Revisited some Materials recently as I wasn't pleased with their overall look. I also widened the map which I feel is an improvement on what it did look like.

At the end of the tunnel I'm going to have debris and rubble blocking the exit, what do you guys think?

Here are some updated pics:

R00

Been working on some Decals today. If anyone has any crit it would be highly appreciated

SirCalalot

This is coming along nicely.
With regards to blocking off the tunnel with rubble, I think that would limit the lighting and make your final scene less interesting.
I'd love to see this match the concept a lot closer in the final iteration

R00

Cheers SirCalalot!

The only problem I'm having is making the corner at the end. I think i'm gonna have to make some more assets in order to do that. I think I have a rough idea what to do but open to suggestion

S2Engine

Cool scene, what do you have for reference for those machines / electronics?

R00

Hey S2Engine,

My reference was this boiler I found on the internet. I just added a few touches here and there to make it more unique.

R00

Hey peeps,

Been working on the door today, still need to add hinges and a handle.



Also went back and ammended the pipes and fittings.

S2Engine

Door's looking pretty good. I think the biggest problem I see so far with the scene is that the materials all have a stone quality to them, the boiler being particularly noticeable. There seems to be some kind of cloudy noise overlay that you can probably reduce, and try to work on the spec maps and gloss values a bit more. From what I can see the door looks like the best material work, so try to apply a similar process to the other pieces. The fog is also flattening things, see if you can push that further back from the camera.

R00

Hey S2Engine, I'm not sure if this is much of an improvement but I'd much appreciate any pointers on this version of the pipe unit. I removed the cloudy texture which I feel made the material look more metallic. I also added a rust layer beneath the paint to add extra depth

S2Engine

I definitely think the boiler is now looking closer to your reference, if you want more detail I'd put it in the spec map. You could also use a cubemap and multiply that by your spec map to make the reflections stronger in certain areas and get nice surface interest. The pipes need to reflect as well, so that they don't feel so matte. Might be kinda cool to go with a more slick surface on those, something like this:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQkDnK6T0w0&feature=player_embedded"]DataCore UDK - YouTube[/ame]

R00

Hey S2Engine,

I'm a big fan of Sneffer (Tor). His work is truly inspirational, I have no idea how to set up those type of Dynamic Reflections. I can't work out wether he's used a cubemap or IRSC (ImageReflectionSceneCapture). I'd love to be able to achieve something along these lines but there doesn't seem to be any decent tutorials un less you no other wise?

Cheers for the feedback

R00

Hey all,

Been working on the reflective material today. It's been quite taxing and there still quite a lot i need to learn but here is where I am so far. Let me know what you think

S2Engine

I think you can make the reflection a bit stronger if you want to match the concept more. I actually was talking about having a reflective plastic-y material on the pipes, but that's a preference call if you want to do that. Here's part 1 of a reflections tutorial by Javahawk, he usually has pretty good stuff to get some base learning in UDK with.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1Zh3qDyXOY"]Chrome Material (Part 1) - UDK Tutorials by Javahawk - YouTube[/ame]

R00

Thanks for the help mate I really appreciate it. I'm at a stage now where I feel i'm hitting a wall (pun not intended). The scene is coming on well but just looks too clean, I'm not sure what else to add, any suggestions?

Here are some more recent updates.

S2Engine

If you're feeling like it's too clean, I think there are a few things you can do. Decal projectors are great for unique grime or details, so you might want to look into those. Also, the floor doesn't feel right yet. It's too matte, in the concept it looks very reflective although that might be from a wet state. Either way, you could definitely get some subtle surface noise in the normal map coupled with higher spec values and tight (maybe ~120) gloss to get a more interesting ground. I think as far as props go you can start adding in all the detail meshes like the switches and electrical boxes running up certain pillars, the fuseboxes on the wall, etc. The pipes I feel are kinda distracting with the contrast between the white parts and your darker collars - in the concept there are fewer collars at longer intervals so that your eye doesn't go mad looking at them. I think if you reduce those dark pieces in width and spread them out more, it'll be a nicer feel.

This also is a good time to look at lighting. The concept has the side areas more brightly lit than the central aisle, and there's a bit of a cool tint to it as well. The light is also very clearly coming from below and shooting up, whereas in your scene it looks like it's about at player height; try changing that up and see if it gets a more moody vibe.

R00

Hey everyone,


Been playing around with the reflective surfaces this week and lighting, still need to work on some areas but toned down the pipe fitting in the scene to show their glossy effect on them too.

R00

Thought it'd be best to revamp some of the modular pieces I have already and spice up the scene with better models as this will eventually be a portfolio piece.

I've remodeled the the pillars and gave them a bit more character and detail.



2048x2048 maps , 408tris

I still need to do spec maps for the pillar then i'll move onto the other models.



I have also warmed the lighing and made the mist a cooler color for a nice contrast in the scene.



Any feedback would be great!

mystichobo

Honestly, It's really dark, I can't make out anything really in the scene at all except for the lights on the server panels.

Here's a quick adjustment I did in PS:


All I did was bump up the brightness (of everything), and then made it slightly cooler. Can actually see what's in the scene now

Orchidface

You're going to need to supplement that concept with some more photo reference I think. You're scene is lacking detail and visual interest, just like the concept. You definitely have a few good things going on though, and took the care to include some important parts.

R00

Cheers for the feedback guys!

I'm going to grunge the scene up a bit more and make it more worn and lived in. I'm still going to keep by the concept but make it my own. the floor has been bugging me a lot so I will break up it's clean finish and create decal puddles to reflect the scene. I have a more assets to model still Orchidface to make this look half interesting as the concept itself is very minimal and lacking interest like you said.

I'm pretty much revamping the whole scene as it is still very blocky so hopefully i'll have some more updates for you guys very soon

toxic_h2o

Its looking good, BUT! it can be better (as always).

I agree with Orchidface, the scene is overall lacking. Its rather its boring and feels like there isn't a solid direction to it.

Why is it boring?

Well to start with hallways are Boring! Don't follow the concept 100%, its a good starting point but conceptualize a bit your self. Don't just throw some grunge on top and call it a day, think about the story behind this hallway.

Is this a scifi scene? real life? Fantasy? (get a genre down) Why was it built? whats it for? is it still being used or is it abandoned? what planet is it on? is it infested with nasty alien goo or did hobos take over start living in the hallway? etc. Asking yourself questions will add so much more depth and interest to it in the end and help you come up new ideas and keep you from having an underground Mine that looks like a maintenance access that only holds water pipes and boilers that look like servers.

Things to fix:

More variety and more consistency, Is this a mine or maintenance access? If you want those boxes to be boilers I would change them because they look out of place nor did I know they where boilers till you posted your reference. Add other assets that are not pipes, boxes and wires. Asking questions about this place will help you come up with things quickly also lots of reference. If its going to be scifi really make it scifi other wise it looks like it was tacked on.


Glowing lights alone wont make your scene look cool. Try to keep the 90 degree angles to a minimum, maybe instead of the boilers being square they are round with crazy extrusions coming out everywhere (extreme example to get point across). Instead of a flat ceiling maybe its arched? Silhouette is super important.

Think about changing the symmetrical feel too, maybe some of the pillars collapsed or the roof caved in since its underground. Splash some color in there, its very gray with gray fog (with can tend to flatten out a scene). All the pipes are white for the most part change some of there color. Get a sense of scale, at the moment I have no clue if this tunnel/hallway thing is 4 stories tall or 10 feet tall, put some objects that the viewer can relate to human scale.

Sorry for the wall of text, just trying to help a fellow artist out, please be aware that none of this is being said in a mean fashion. I struggle with all this shit too. Im sure you know most of this but its always good to remind our selves of it.

Keep punching donkeys!

R00

Hey Toxic! I really do appreciate anyone taking their time to write about my work be it crit or their opinion. I have been finding it hard to relate to this concept which in turn has made it difficult for me to progress in some areas.

At the moment It's serving as a maintenance area within a mine/underground area. Which has no depth or story I suppose but I guess it's something I really should have considered before starting. I have to agree with you about the boilers looking like servers because as a Plumber and Heating Engineer myself I haven't come across one that elaborate (but close in some ways )

I really like your idea about rounding the boiler's corners and maybe 'teching' it up in other areas as I also feel that it looks saturated. The pipes are now being revamped and scaled down as they through my scene's scale out but I can't settle on a colour right now so I may post some screen grabs when I'm happy with them.

'Keep punching donkeys!'<

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only someone as immature as me would laugh at this

R00

Update for you all

Been focusing on lighting and bring some of my models up to scratch as the scene was lacking a lot of character.





Be nice to know what you all think of the lighting as it has been a pain to set up. What do you think of the pipe color? Should I change it?

SirCalalot

It's definitely a step in the right direction, but I think the red colour of the pipes is darkening the scene somewhat.
Remember that the Diffuse texture of a material is what colour it will be when fully lit, so a dark texture will only ever be dark, no matter how much light you shine on it. Add this to your naturally dark stone walls and you are going to struggle with lighting up your scene.

Now I know that you are not sticking religiously to the concept, but have another gander at its composition:



The artist has chosen the white pipes specifically for the purpose of creating contrast to the rest of the dark scene. With the lights shining on them, the pipes and light-grey walls create high-value areas of the image. Conversely, the unlit floor is a dark grey in opposition to this.
Maybe blue or yellow pipes would fare better - or creating brighter areas here in different ways.

Edit: I find a good technique is to blur your vision when looking at an image to see how much visual interest there is. If your image just turns into a dark blur, then more contrast is needed

I think you need to boost your lighting intensity from the floor spots too. As well as this, try upping their scene bounce-lighting contribution (View > World Properties Lightmass > Diffuse Boost) but try not to go much higher than 15.
This will intensify how far your lights contribute to the scene overall.

That last step will also no-doubt create a new problem - lack of contrast. This can be remedied in part by altering your shadow colour. As a general rule, shadows are never fully black, but are the colour of your environment.
For instance, an outdoor scene with a warm/yellow sun and blue sky - blue shadows. They work well as the opposite to your light's colour.
Looking at the concept, the lighting is a cold white and if you look carefully (on the floor's grating) the shadows are a dark terracotta.

To change the Environment Colour, just go (View > World Properties Lightmass > Environment Color) and the changes should update in real-time.

I hope all is well and that helps somewhat anyway

R00

Hey guys!

Sorry it's been a while I've been away and now back to kick some butt!

SirCalalot: Cheers for the feedback here mate it's great that people are willing to take their time to analyze my work and the tip on the texturing is a great tip and the UDK stuff in invaluable as I haven't really touched on that side of things yet.

I think I'm going to go off on a slight tangent in terms of the concept as it is lacking character so i will add my own touch/style in areas to make it my own.

Just finished a prop for the level this morning








here is the turntable link http://vimeo.com/40377046

Now about to start modeling the doors to close this level off.

As usual any feedback would be great!

S2Engine

Cool, do those barrels have a spec map? You could probably slightly reduce some of the overlays from the diffuse and instead crank the contrast in the spec to get a more metallic look. It's a bit too matte at the moment. Also be sure to pipe a value into the Spec Power / Glossiness node that's higher than the default 15. I imagine somewhere around 40-50 might be good for that rusty metal look.

R00

Cheers man! It hasn't got a spec yet as I thought it may do more harm than good at the time but now you mention it I really should. Thanks for the advice, i'll apply this to the barrel right away

SirCalalot

Top tip of the day™ - Metallic (or electrically conductive) objects have a colour specular map, generally a similar colour as the diffuse. Non-metallic objects tend to have a white specular map (or even an inversed diffuse map in the spec').

R00

SirCalalot wrote: »

Top tip of the day™ - Metallic (or electrically conductive) objects have a colour specular map, generally a similar colour as the diffuse. Non-metallic objects tend to have a white specular map (or even an inversed diffuse map in the spec').

Cheers mate! I didn't know that

S2Engine

http://www.3dtotal.com/forums_frameset/index.php?e=http://www.3dtotal.com/tutorial/texturing_and_lighting/brief_consideration_about_materials/brief_consideration_about_materials_01.php

^Explains it, make sure you read all 4 pages!

AmbiguousPackage

For that reflection you could always use image based reflection in UDK that you project.
http://udn.epicgames.com/Three/ImageBasedReflections.html

Keep in mind you will need a video card that supports DX11 features to do it.

R00

Cheers guys I really appreciate all the help!

AmbiguousPackage - I have one set up at the moment but will use the reflections in puddle or oil on the floor as I'm going for a 'grungey' feel and yea I'm fortunate enough to support DX11

S2Engine - Your a gem mate! can't thank you enough for the help

R00

Updates!


Finally capped the end off with a door which has helped me visualise how the final oputcome may look now. I have a month roughly left to tie this up as it is due in middle of May.


I've scaled down the pipes an boilers to make the scene look taller and also helped with my scale. Only porblem is that it looks quite empty in some areas now. Any ideas on what I could add?

SirCalalot

It's definitely getting there

You could try adding a few of those plastic crates like the one in the concept.

Overall though, I think your scene is a bit too dark and lacks contrast. The lighting is really not showing off your work.
This could be remedied in part by brightening up your rock wall texture to include a bit more light greys and flecks of white to pick up more light.

Multiplying the Emmissive value of your light materials by a factor of five will bring in a lot more dramatic detail as well as making some nice bloom kick in. In conjunction, I'd recommend getting a nice complimentary colour scheme in there, as your environment is looking grey.
Maybe turning the floor lights ever so slightly blue with your light over the door as a red warning sign would work?
Then changing the fog colour to a light cyan would work well.

These are just suggestions, mind, it's up to you what you do

R00

Cheers for the quick feedback mate!


I've taken what you've said on board and tried to apply it to the scene so let me know what you think











Appologises if the picture quality isn't great. The puddle wouldn't show when using the 'tiledshot' function in UDK so I opted for the Windows snip tool

If I have time I will create some more decals such as:

Exit Signs.
Letters/Numbers for the columns.
Wall vents.
Grime on the bricks.

R00

Thank you all for the Crit and Comments throughout this project