Almost seems that the belly is a bit wider now then it was before.
I am personally curious what's the main piece of advice that is split in conflicting opinions. My advice on critique in general, (especially conflicting), is take it into consideration, and then do your own research, if you haven't already. Some stuff is going to be just personal preference.
Glad to hear you're not letting it get "designed by committee". My own fear about giving critique is that someone would simply take my advice, and not do their own validating to see if they agree with it, or if it fits with their own sense of style. Always double check advice and critique to see if it's sound. If my own advice is mostly sound, but ever so slightly off, or misinterpreted, and someone simply applies what they hear without absorbing it and checking to see if it makes sense, it hasn't done much good.
@pseudoBug: I hate to contradict you because I don't want you to think I have anything against what you're saying. I think it's all valid, but I personally have had experience with a girlfriend of mine who had jutting hip bones and she was a voluptuous girl. The hip bones are sometimes angled out and sometimes the girl just doesn't deposit much fat there, kind of like the elbow area, even on fat people you can see their elbows. It's kind of like that.
You're absolutely right. One thing to keep in mind is that there's always some people who are an exception to the rule. There aren't really any set rules that you can apply and not have someone somewhere who contradicts that rule.
But, especially when it comes to stylized characters(especially ones that you want to appeal to a broad demographic), I think for believability sake usually it's better to stick with what falls within the "norm". (I am however not a fan of for example, making boobs all look like implants simply because that's all that 13yr olds think they should be.) Everything needs to be grounded in reality in someway.
But that's why I used the word "usually". I certainly think it's important to not make an assumption based on even a broad range of references, people come in all shapes/sizes bone structures, etc.
Hey man just wanted to say great work, its tough (for me anyway) to come up with an original design, let alone stylised. Also awesome work on the creases, they look really nice!
Here's the latest update. I did some polish work on the sculpt, which I'll post later when I have the energy to assemble a pretty zbrush render. I've gotten the lowpoly mostly done, still have to stitch a few of the elements together, no unwrap yet.
She's clocking in at just under 9000 triangles right now. I was thinking of making her significantly lower (sub 5000) but my desire to make her edges silky smooth won out. I did a lot of control triangulation on the cloth bits that I re-quadded for the screenshots so they'd read better. I'm also considering adding a second element to alpha map for eyelashes and hair detail.
Daphz & GabrielP: Thanks guys but the hips and tummy were pretty much my basis for the whole model, gotta stick with the unnaturally sexy way they protrude
Scudz: Yeah, I was already done with the body when you posted... but it never hurts to do more female anatomy research. For science. >.>
PseudoBug: Thanks again for all the detailed feedback dude. The main area people were conflicting about was the belly and hips; some people really like the weird stylized look, others were trying to get me to soften it up realistically, while others were pushing the more ripped realistic abs approach. I was originally treating it as objective anatomy feedback, but I realized it just came down to personal taste.... so I took it back to the original anatomy and followed my heart.
edit: looking at it now after stepping out for a bit, I could still optimize the shit out of this....
Sauron: Thanks man! She actually doesnt have anything beneath her clothes, this started as a sketch so I just kinda sculpted it all as one solid piece initially. I do like idea of transferring the torso and head sculpt to the original basemesh and doing a proper anatomy study in this style though.
nightFlarer: Thanks
MoP: Cheers dude, thanks for pokin your head in
Here's some texture wippage on the low poly. Nothing crazy, just did some cleanup and base color block in. Skin is a little further along but the whole thing is still 100% pure uncut colombian WIP.
Looking awesome, really great job with the low-poly too, although the legs seem like they'd be a pain to animate.
I like her figure and I'm glad you didn't change it, I'm not always sure why people here like to give feedback about realism to people who are doing stylistic stuff (especially when, like you, it's done well). Seriously well done.
So I spent all day trying to learn how to present 3d models more sexily... and this is what I got. ZBrush still boggles my mind when it comes to materials and BPR settings, anyone got a link to a solid breakdown on that workflow?
EXTRA SPECIAL THANKS TO XOLIUL for making the most awesomely sexified shader ever
note: I need to figure out how to enable realtime AA in my max viewport... so these screens are hella aliased, yo.
Calling her done, still open to any feedback or crits on how she turned out, though I may not make any more changes to this one. Clocking in at just under 9k triangles, with one 2048 map (and a small alpha map for the eyelashes). I'll post up a wireframe shot tomorrow.
EDIT: I don't know how long this has been going on for, but apparently polycount auto-resizes images, even the sized-up version, so here's links to the images themselves if you want to see the FULL full resolution
Great character, I love the torso's proportions. The cloth folds are really well done, the only area that feels a little weird is the folds immediately below the butt cheeks. Or maybe I've just been staring at the butt too long.
This is fantastic looking, man. Awesome job. A crit I can do is that materials/textures should receive some more love. By now, it seems the entire figure is made of some kind of opaque clay. The skin specialy is not reading as skin, at least to me. More variation on textures and mainly on specularity could change this.
But if you are already tired of this model, never mind, it´s on boss level already (it could be a mega final boss, if suspenders were there ).
dude you're not done at all.
She needs to be posed, Balboa style at least, with a mini boxing ring for a base.
gotta agree on the materials though, everything feels just a little flat and lacking variation. even if you just adjust the lighting/spec it would really help bring out her awesomenessness.
nightFlarer: hmm, it's actually a photo-based skin texture, the lighting and layer fx in photoshop might be washing it out though...
prototyp3: Haha, yeah those were a problem area for me, trying to keep the but defined and sexified while still looking "real" and not having fold lines that make it look like the pants are getting sucked up into her crack. Agree they still bother me a little, but not as much as they did.
T.Bull: I'm using max 2009... only option in there is to antialias the wireframes, which doesnt even seem to work. Thanks anyway... maybe I should use a newed version of max heh.
TGZ: muchas gracias senor
jramauri: hmmm... you're not the only one to point out the material look, especially the skin. I may have to go back and play with the textures today. Thanks!
scudz: Noted, materials are lookin like they're gonna get some love in the next day or two. As for the pose and base, I actually did exactly that yesterday heh. Check out this screen, I decided to lose the base though, it's just too distracting, at least without her in a cool pose. I may yet rig and pose her though, if I find the energy... I've been grinding on this hard all week and this model is fast approaching never-want-to-look-at-it-again status.
iciban: thanks man, if I can get my screencap program to capture my max viewport smoothly, a turntable I will make.
shotgun: Thanks, what edges do you mean exactly? The silhouette of the geometry, or the normal mapped details? The "hardness" of the anatomy was probably the hardest thing to nail down on this heh.
ericdigital: Thanks dude! Skin crit noted... expect a late update in the next couple days.
ditto from me on the skin details and variation, but wow I love this character. Great proportions, great idea and perfect execution, I am really looking forward to the next update
awesome dude, if the base was the current height but twice as wide it might work but no biggy.
As far as posing you don't necessarily have to rig her, just bring the lowpoly back into ZBrush and TPose. it's not always perfect and takes some definate tweaking but with the right polygroups you should be able to get something done relativley quick.
Lookin' sweet. Materials definitely need some love. I'm not qualified in any way to comment on the low poly.
One thing I just realized is a lot of the difficulty with your skin is probably going to come from the color scheme.
It might be a little tougher to make skin look warm against a bright orange. Maybe think about toning the "metalic" bright orange look of the suit down if you can't get the skin to feel right.
spiderDude: thanksDude!
shotgun: Thanks, what edges do you mean exactly? The silhouette of the geometry, or the normal mapped details? The "hardness" of the anatomy was probably the hardest thing to nail down on this heh.
I meant the transitions between muscles groups, masses and bones. Basically the "lines", if u were to draw this, are over defined. If u added a layer of skin and fat over her body it would smooth all those harsh bumps and crevices, in PS the result would pretty much equal going over her body with a blur tool. It's a matter of style really.
Hey Ferg this is FANTASTIC, but I really think you could get the same effect and res out of a 1024. The texture isn't too dirty, and should scale down fine I think. 2048 just seems outrageous since I know a majority of characters I have seen get 1024 max on consoles. BUT her hourglass shape is BANGIN'. Love this man, keep up the good work.
she turned out great! me likey her proportions. I think you could add some color variation, her orange looks kind of sterile; adding some reds or a different color might help things out. I'm with poff about downsizing the texture too
I think it turned out pretty stellar, Ferg. I posted in the WAYWO thread but decided to here as well.
I've been watching this thread since it started, I was happy when I saw you decide to just go with your own initial mix of anatomy/definition, turned out really well. I'm a big fan of the wrinkle job on the outfit, as well.
Replies
This is a winner Ferg.
This.Is.A.Winner.
100% improvement on the face. Nice.
Almost seems that the belly is a bit wider now then it was before.
I am personally curious what's the main piece of advice that is split in conflicting opinions. My advice on critique in general, (especially conflicting), is take it into consideration, and then do your own research, if you haven't already. Some stuff is going to be just personal preference.
Glad to hear you're not letting it get "designed by committee". My own fear about giving critique is that someone would simply take my advice, and not do their own validating to see if they agree with it, or if it fits with their own sense of style. Always double check advice and critique to see if it's sound. If my own advice is mostly sound, but ever so slightly off, or misinterpreted, and someone simply applies what they hear without absorbing it and checking to see if it makes sense, it hasn't done much good.
You're absolutely right. One thing to keep in mind is that there's always some people who are an exception to the rule. There aren't really any set rules that you can apply and not have someone somewhere who contradicts that rule.
But, especially when it comes to stylized characters(especially ones that you want to appeal to a broad demographic), I think for believability sake usually it's better to stick with what falls within the "norm". (I am however not a fan of for example, making boobs all look like implants simply because that's all that 13yr olds think they should be.) Everything needs to be grounded in reality in someway.
But that's why I used the word "usually". I certainly think it's important to not make an assumption based on even a broad range of references, people come in all shapes/sizes bone structures, etc.
The shapes are very well balanced and i just love how you handled the cloth
I guess you're mostly done with the anatomy now but I happened to come across this today and thought you might find it usefull.
warning - while the link is safe, the main site is ABSOLUTELY NOT SAFE for work...
in fact it's probably the definition of not safe for work.
Here's the latest update. I did some polish work on the sculpt, which I'll post later when I have the energy to assemble a pretty zbrush render. I've gotten the lowpoly mostly done, still have to stitch a few of the elements together, no unwrap yet.
She's clocking in at just under 9000 triangles right now. I was thinking of making her significantly lower (sub 5000) but my desire to make her edges silky smooth won out. I did a lot of control triangulation on the cloth bits that I re-quadded for the screenshots so they'd read better. I'm also considering adding a second element to alpha map for eyelashes and hair detail.
Daphz & GabrielP: Thanks guys but the hips and tummy were pretty much my basis for the whole model, gotta stick with the unnaturally sexy way they protrude
Scudz: Yeah, I was already done with the body when you posted... but it never hurts to do more female anatomy research. For science. >.>
PseudoBug: Thanks again for all the detailed feedback dude. The main area people were conflicting about was the belly and hips; some people really like the weird stylized look, others were trying to get me to soften it up realistically, while others were pushing the more ripped realistic abs approach. I was originally treating it as objective anatomy feedback, but I realized it just came down to personal taste.... so I took it back to the original anatomy and followed my heart.
edit: looking at it now after stepping out for a bit, I could still optimize the shit out of this....
anywho, here's her latest incarnation:
Can you please show the model with no clothes? Would like to have it for reference
I'm not good at critiquing, but I do know how to praise XD Great poly distribution, love the style, etc, etc.
Can't wait for the final product.
nightFlarer: Thanks
MoP: Cheers dude, thanks for pokin your head in
Here's some texture wippage on the low poly. Nothing crazy, just did some cleanup and base color block in. Skin is a little further along but the whole thing is still 100% pure uncut colombian WIP.
Awesome work Ferg.
I like her figure and I'm glad you didn't change it, I'm not always sure why people here like to give feedback about realism to people who are doing stylistic stuff (especially when, like you, it's done well). Seriously well done.
So I spent all day trying to learn how to present 3d models more sexily... and this is what I got. ZBrush still boggles my mind when it comes to materials and BPR settings, anyone got a link to a solid breakdown on that workflow?
EXTRA SPECIAL THANKS TO XOLIUL for making the most awesomely sexified shader ever
note: I need to figure out how to enable realtime AA in my max viewport... so these screens are hella aliased, yo.
Calling her done, still open to any feedback or crits on how she turned out, though I may not make any more changes to this one. Clocking in at just under 9k triangles, with one 2048 map (and a small alpha map for the eyelashes). I'll post up a wireframe shot tomorrow.
EDIT: I don't know how long this has been going on for, but apparently polycount auto-resizes images, even the sized-up version, so here's links to the images themselves if you want to see the FULL full resolution
http://www.olypen.com/advent/Smiley/temp/sketches/Molly_LowFinal.jpg
http://www.olypen.com/advent/Smiley/temp/sketches/Molly_LowFinal2.jpg
http://www.olypen.com/advent/Smiley/temp/sketches/Molly_BPRFinal.jpg
and the zbrush BPR...
cheers
nice work
Small crit, the torso looks like its just a solid colour. Feels a bit off to me (it's probably just me XD), but I love this anyways
You mean Customize -> Preferences -> Viewports -> Configure Driver -> Appearence Preferences ?
Very nice stuff btw. Really like the style (:
But if you are already tired of this model, never mind, it´s on boss level already (it could be a mega final boss, if suspenders were there
She needs to be posed, Balboa style at least, with a mini boxing ring for a base.
gotta agree on the materials though, everything feels just a little flat and lacking variation. even if you just adjust the lighting/spec it would really help bring out her awesomenessness.
nightFlarer: hmm, it's actually a photo-based skin texture, the lighting and layer fx in photoshop might be washing it out though...
prototyp3: Haha, yeah those were a problem area for me, trying to keep the but defined and sexified while still looking "real" and not having fold lines that make it look like the pants are getting sucked up into her crack. Agree they still bother me a little, but not as much as they did.
T.Bull: I'm using max 2009... only option in there is to antialias the wireframes, which doesnt even seem to work. Thanks anyway... maybe I should use a newed version of max heh.
TGZ: muchas gracias senor
jramauri: hmmm... you're not the only one to point out the material look, especially the skin. I may have to go back and play with the textures today. Thanks!
scudz: Noted, materials are lookin like they're gonna get some love in the next day or two. As for the pose and base, I actually did exactly that yesterday heh. Check out this screen, I decided to lose the base though, it's just too distracting, at least without her in a cool pose. I may yet rig and pose her though, if I find the energy... I've been grinding on this hard all week and this model is fast approaching never-want-to-look-at-it-again status.
iciban: thanks man, if I can get my screencap program to capture my max viewport smoothly, a turntable I will make.
shotgun: Thanks, what edges do you mean exactly? The silhouette of the geometry, or the normal mapped details? The "hardness" of the anatomy was probably the hardest thing to nail down on this heh.
ericdigital: Thanks dude! Skin crit noted... expect a late update in the next couple days.
Here's the wireframe as promised... cheers!
As far as posing you don't necessarily have to rig her, just bring the lowpoly back into ZBrush and TPose. it's not always perfect and takes some definate tweaking but with the right polygroups you should be able to get something done relativley quick.
One thing I just realized is a lot of the difficulty with your skin is probably going to come from the color scheme.
It might be a little tougher to make skin look warm against a bright orange. Maybe think about toning the "metalic" bright orange look of the suit down if you can't get the skin to feel right.
I meant the transitions between muscles groups, masses and bones. Basically the "lines", if u were to draw this, are over defined. If u added a layer of skin and fat over her body it would smooth all those harsh bumps and crevices, in PS the result would pretty much equal going over her body with a blur tool. It's a matter of style really.
quick color variation ideas.
I've been watching this thread since it started, I was happy when I saw you decide to just go with your own initial mix of anatomy/definition, turned out really well.