Time for a new LCD/LED Screen
polycounter lvl 18
So I'm looking into getting a new screen for my rig at home.
I want to upgrade to a 27" and have had my eyes on this one http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824236103
I bought the lower grade version of this one for my step mom a year ago and it looks fantastic. This one has a better refresh rate and higher contrast ratio. Seemed good.
I have done work on it and it seemed to be a lot nicer then my other LCDs so wanted to see what you fine folk thought since I really don't know shit about screens compared to other components and this is kinda a big purchase.
I want to upgrade to a 27" and have had my eyes on this one http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824236103
I bought the lower grade version of this one for my step mom a year ago and it looks fantastic. This one has a better refresh rate and higher contrast ratio. Seemed good.
I have done work on it and it seemed to be a lot nicer then my other LCDs so wanted to see what you fine folk thought since I really don't know shit about screens compared to other components and this is kinda a big purchase.
Replies
Inexpensive monitors like this use TN panels, which are cheap, have fast refresh rates but have poor color accuracy and poor viewing angles - generally bad for art work. If you're playing games or browsing the web they're ok, I wouldn't want to do art on one though(but some people don't mind them).
I would suggest getting an LCD with a IPS(H or S), E-IPS, PVA, MVA panel. All of these will have slightly slower refresh rates(4-10ms generally), but much better color and viewing angles. Dell makes some decently priced E-IPS screens, but at the 23" and 24" range.
If you really want to go 27", its going to be very hard to find a quality panel at a price you can stomach. I would highly recommend getting a smaller 23" or 24" lcd with a good panel instead. For instance, the Dell U2711(IPS) is about $1000.
The dell 23" 2311H(e-ips, 1080p) is about $240.
The dell 24" U2412m(e-ips, 1920x1200) is about $370
The dell 24" 2410U(e-ips, 1920x1200) is about $550
Before I would drop over $300 on a cheap TN 27" I would buy any of the above, or two of the 2311H if you really need the extra space.
Heres a planar 26" (ips 1920 x 1200) for about $700ish: Planar PX2611W
Or you could try to find an older year Dell 27" refurbished like this, again for about $700 though: http://www.ebay.com/itm/HW117-Dell-2709W-27-Ultrasharp-Widescreen-Full-HD-TFT-LCD-/110791890188?pt=Computer_Monitors&hash=item19cbb6150c
Very important!!! The above 26/27" monitors run at 1920x1200, the same as that 24" dell. The asus you linked to runs at 1080P, less than the Dell 24"!!!! You're only paying for bigger pixels going with one of these monitors. You have to go up to something like the U2711(2560 x 1440) to actually get more resolution, more screen real-estate. Unless you're going blind and want big pixels, I would pass.
I personally have a Dell 2408WFP, 24" 1920x1200. I paid about $480 about 6 months before the cheaper E-IPS panels came out which sucked, but its worth every penny.
This guy is selling used ones for $200, which is an amazing value. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dell-UltraSharp-2408WFP-24-LCD-Monitor-DVI-HDMI-DP-/110799101766?pt=Computer_Monitors&hash=item19cc241f46
I will probably look at the Dell 24" ones and see what I can find. I had 2 of the 2410u at my last job and they were amazing so guess I'll keep my eyes open.
I would have said contrast ratios were incredibly important, but I guess only with TV's, or other screens used for games/movies, when creating CGI I guess its importance is diminished (?)
Contrast ratio is a pretty vague statistic , and doesn't necessarily equate to quality in any sort of reliable way. For instance you can have a TN panel with a super high contrast ratio when viewing from the optimal angle, but it will degrade quickly away from that optimal angle.
Contrast ratio is often more of a marketing gimick than a scientific measurement of quality.
Sorry, response time, not refresh rate. I'm not sure IPS or higher end panels come in anything but 60hz currently, so if you need 120hz for whatever reason TN panels are the only choice. I've never have a problem with 60hz personally, but I have had some terrible eye strain from low end TN panels.
I have a Flatron IPS236 from LG. It's not the greatest quality IPS display, but color is pretty consistent.
LG is coming out with one. Mitsubishi has one. Basically any 3d IPS monitor will be 120hz otherwise if used in 2d.
If it did 3d that would be cool but i really don't care too much about that currently...
Everyone around me at work has 27 inch Macs. Gotta say they're pretty nice, bright/colourful, and at 2560x1440 they are super sharp (you need a resolution like that for a monitor that size I recon). But I could never work with that reflective screen. I was told it's possible to get them with a matt finish, but I haven't found one yet, has anybody else?
You have to matte it yourself. For some reason apple feels reflective looks better. Just google it, https://discussions.apple.com/thread/2720452?start=0&tstart=0
You won't necessarily have to adjust your viewing position with a 27", but its something to consider especially if you'll be working long hours on it. Saftey First!
Dell nz is doing a special on the u2412m and u2410.
NZ$300 off each one....that's approx US$225
so the u2412m will be NZ$199...approx US$150
and the u2410 will be NZ$649...approx US$485
I want to get a dual screen set up....so the u2412m looks like very good bang for my buck.... would the specs of the u2412m suffice or should I consider the u2410?
Personally, I don't think I would ever go beyond 22", even 24" seems a bit exccessive and required me to move further away from my desk. If I wanted more screenspace I think I would rather grab another screen.
edit:
Be wary when you make a purchase and do proper research. Panels can vary depending on the series. For example, the monitor I'm currently using is an A04 version of 2007WFP and all of them came with S-IPS panels. However, in the A02 version of that screen (assuming I'm correct) you had a fifty/fifty chance of getting an S-PVA panel instead. I have no idea if Dell is still doing this, but better make sure you know what exactly you're getting. If there's any doubt, buy it in store and check the monitor's OSD; it usually has the name of the panel displayed right there.
IPS or PVA you're still getting an excellent panel, my 2408wpf has a PVA panel and it is superb.
True, but the one included in 2007WFP had worse viewing angles and much slower response time. I recall some people were also mentioning colour bleeding issues. I guess nowadays the difference between the high-endish panels might be neglible, but I'm saying people should make sure they get what they're expecting.
Yeah for sure, my point was that IPS or PVA, both are massively better than TN. =P
Though, teaandcigarettes....are you saying that if I was to get 2 of the same monitors(from dell) that there is a chance I could end up with different panels. That would be pretty messed up. Another thing is that, this special is huge, makes me wonder if the u2412m is going to become obsolete or that they are sneaking in refurbished models.
I think dell is a little more forthcoming with what panels they actually use these days, for instance a lot of the monitors they sell will list "IPS" in the specs. Dell runs some really awesome sales, at $150 I wouldn't hesitate to buy two(or more!) of those u2412m's, they're listed at $300 right now from the US dell site.
I didn't look up the u2412m before because at that price I figured it was a cheaper TN panel. Go buy it now!
Worst case you have to return them, best case you get two for the price of one.
I'm pretty sure they are E-IPS, which is a recent cheaper IPS type panel, not really the same as what you'll get in a $1000-2000 NEC IPS panel, but still very good, probably on par with m/pva.
it sort of goes like this:
H/S-IPS
M/P-VA
E-IPS
10 year old CRT
Light Bright
...
....
.....
TN
Unless its AMOLED, which is something else entirely, really great but generally only used in small devices like cell phones and cameras. I cant wait for full-size AMOLED displays. http://www.tomshardware.com/news/OLED-Monitors-17-inch-25-inch-Price-Cost,12220.html
first of all the price difference between 23" vs 24" is well... staggering. i'm not sure that £100 for an extra inch of screen space is really good value. but there might be more to it than that?
apparently as a general rule, the 23" versions have 6-bit colour while the 24" versions have 8-bit colour.
so really i need to know, from other people who've either seen first hand, or know from friends etc. if there really is a noticable difference between the 23" and 24" versions of IPS monitors (for reference, i was looking at the Dell monitors).
Also, the Dell u2310 and u2410 monitors are different from the u2311 and u2411, in that the "11" monitors are running LED backlit screens. does anybody have any experience with these, whether positive or negative? as i've read that LED backlights can affect the gamut ranges.
any clarification from people that own/know better about this stuff?
E-IPS vs E-IPS? Did you mean S-IPS or H-IPS? Afaik, even E-IPS is significantly better than TN. TN itself can also range from almost-tolerable, to eye-bleedingly bad.
I just picked up a lenovo x220 with the IPS screen option, I'm about 95% that means e-IPS, because I'm not sure how you can get H/S-IPs into a laptop under $2000, and it is significantly better than the TN panels you will find in most laptops or cheap consumer LCDs. I'm sure this is about the bottom of what you can expect out of E-IPS, but its really actually quite pleasant.
I believe kaptainkermals meant e-IPS (lowercase e). I haven't heard of these before because I've never looked into LG monitors, but he's right. Here's a link: http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/articles/content/panel_technologies_content.htm#e-ips
On a side note, the link I've attached has some really good info about the differences between different panels.
I have read most TN panels can only natively display 262,000 colors. The specifications page for the B2430HD states it can display 16.7 million colors. If this is accurate, and this TN panel monitor can indeed produce that many colors accurately I will keep my purchase. But if this is incorrect I may have to consider purchasing a new monitor. I would greatly appreciate if someone knowledgeable here would take a quick look at the specifications for the monitor and help me make an informed decision.
Thank you in advance
Oh yeah I see, well you're not going to get E-IPS or H/S/etc in a monitor south of $600(unless its a 20 or possibly 22"), and even e-IPS is significantly better than TN.
The u2311h is e-IPS and the u2410 is H-IPS, which is a big reason for the cost difference. The 23" screens are generally 1920x1080, as apposed to 1920x1200 as well and targeted more to consumers while the 24" is targeted more towards professionals. The 24" also has swivel so you can do portrait mode, and probably better/more connections in back.
I'm not sure I can really tell you if LED is better/worse, I'm staring at an LED e-IPS as I write this though, and its fine. A big reason for the use of LEDs is power consumption.
Here is a comparison of the e-IPS in the u2311h and a typical TN for anyone who doesn't understand why even e-IPS is much better: [ame="
For anyone who has the money, a 24" ~$600 IPS or M/PVA monitor is probably a good idea, but anyone on more of a budget, the 23" e-IPS is an excellent choice.
Generally the big problems with TN are the bad viewing angles, color shifting, and for me personally, every TN panel I've ever seen/used has a constant gradient across the screen that makes texturing/painting a pain in the ass.
Color reproduction is probably a bit less important than we typically make it out to be if you're not doing print work.
Generally if you're happy with your screen I wouldn't recommend buying a new one, unless you can still return it or were planing on buying a second screen anyway. Some people are just fine with TN panels, I consider those people lucky as they can live with cheaper monitors. =P
Oh and let me say it again: You can find used 2408wfp(PVA?) on ebay for about $200, which is a major bargain. I've got some older Dell Ultrasharps that are probably 7-8 years old and they still work great, so I wouldn't be too worried about buying used. If I wanted a second 2408 this is what I would do. When you consider you can buy two of them for less than the cost of the current Dell 24" ultrasharp it looks very attractive.
I was initially thinking about the u2410 but for the price(which is an awesome deal if I could afford it) of that I could get 2 u2412m and a bit more.
My main issue, is the fact some of them use 6bit panels (not 8bit as most other IPS, PVA and MVA panels use), but you are right EQ, the quality is still quite a bit better than a TN any day.
Just trying to point it out, as there is a difference there, and it's only noticeable if you note the lowercase e, in the end, it's well worth it, if that falls into your budget
Can't wait for OLED huh? http://mashable.com/2012/01/01/lg-worlds-largest-oled/
Just for clarity:
I've got a Dell u2311h and it's got a swivel base and can do portrait mode as well.
The back has a DVI, VGA, and Display Port (wish it was hdmi...).
The color depth seems good to me.
Sometimes I wish I had gotten 2 22"s instead of the 23", maybe next time.
I suppose it's probably a cheap e-IPS, but it still blows away any TN that I've ever sat infront of.
Like EQ says The colour shifting you see on TN screens will be a constant bane
Just so you know, the 27" Dell cant go portrate like the smaller ones.
but i would still like an answer to this, if possible?
does anyone know what difference this will make and how noticable it is?
The difference is the number of colors the panel can display, with 6bit you would be more likely to see banding on a gradient than with 8 bit. Probably more important for work where color accuracy is crucial, like print work. For game art, I doubt there would be more than a marginal difference.
Which?
http://accessories.dell.com/sna/products/Monitors_Flat_Panel_Widescreen/productdetail.aspx?c=ca&l=en&s=bsd&cs=cabsdt1&sku=320-2676
I actually just bought them... the sale was screaming at me and there was only 30 minutes left.
Hopefully I didn't make a bad choice...
I have an LED TV and the colours are much more punchy which is nice, but I'm wondering if when working on textures, if that would skew the end results in a negative way.
the LED HP ZR2440w is not a bad choice, and you have versions with 27"
http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en/sm/WF06a/382087-382087-64283-72270-3884471-5163690.html
Its brightness it's not ideal, but we can tweak it. Anyways, the matter is always to look what we want and find in google reviews and problems with the monitor. I can say the dell u2410 is not a good choice, and it has too many issues.
In TFTcentral you can find very good reviews, here's one of the new ips led from hp. http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/hp_zr2440w.htm
And another thing, some of these ips are very bad for gaming.
edit: There are other choices like some Benq VA LED models.
The biggest difference is probably the panel type, higher end IPS vs e-IPS, which is fairly unlikely that you would notice unless you had them side by side.
LED is just the type of light used for the back-light, as apposed to fluorescent, it doesn't really mean much in terms of contrast etc, that has more to do with the panel type than the back-light type. LED's are used because they use less power, and do not contain mercury - LEDs are very "Green". Again, LED back-light doesn't automatically make a monitor better or worse, you can have an LED back-lit monitor, and another CCFL back-lit monitor with a better panel and the CCFL monitor would be better. But most monitors these days are LED so you don't really have to worry about it.
You'll notice they aren't bragging that their LED back-lighting provides any more contrast or image quality, and they certainly would if be talking that up if it did. Like "contrast ratio", LED is more of a marketing hype word than something you need to worry about.
The PVA CCFL panel in my Dell 2408wfp is better than the LED e-IPS panel in my laptop, for example. Because its simply a better panel. My screen in my laptop is excellent though, and I wouldn't notice nor care that it could be better unless I'm comparing the two next to each other.
TVs are generally set up to have extra contrast and saturation for watching movies, thats like why your TV is punchy, not because of the LED back-light. TVs are set up to stand out in a row at best buy, and often do not have particularly accurate colors, which is fine for watching movies, but less so for doing art.
The 24" HP i pointed is in the same range of price here, 370 euros with shipment and it's a BETTER monitor with e-ips panel imho.
And of course, if we look for better tfts, we always can look monitors as NECs, my brother has one with a h-ips panel of 12 bits, and it's not something all people can afford so easily (2000+euro).
In contrast to my bro, i work with a TN panel, a LG LED w2486L, it has great contrast and great blacks (dinamic). Compared to other TNs, it's far superior and for my needs is more than enough.
One thing i hate of these "economic ips" panels is the glare effect. There are tfts with ips panels without this issue like some Necs. It's hard to find a ips monitor with good blacks. There are monitors like some Benq using VA panels with 178º and 3000:1 of contrast. Those are another choice, maybe cheaper.
I just felt like it was time to upgrade to hopefully something a bit better.
Thanks for all the help