Creating a good metal texture or: My metal is not metal enough!
Hello!
I realize similar threads have been created quite a few times before. I read a few of them myself and learned quite a lot. Still, I find myself in a rut as I can't seem to get the game-y semi-realistic next-gen metal texture that I want.
Perhaps it's a problem with texture definition, perhaps with the specular map. I'm not sure, it's probably both. This is why I was hoping that you, the wonderful PolyCount community, could give me some tips and hints on how to improve my metal texture
(UDK Render from object editor)
Give my crits, make me cry, anything to get this to look somewhat like metal!
I realize similar threads have been created quite a few times before. I read a few of them myself and learned quite a lot. Still, I find myself in a rut as I can't seem to get the game-y semi-realistic next-gen metal texture that I want.
Perhaps it's a problem with texture definition, perhaps with the specular map. I'm not sure, it's probably both. This is why I was hoping that you, the wonderful PolyCount community, could give me some tips and hints on how to improve my metal texture
(UDK Render from object editor)
Give my crits, make me cry, anything to get this to look somewhat like metal!
Replies
http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=373024
that is what i follwed when i was first learning to texture, and i was able to get nice results pretty quickly
I'm sewious! Put it in your Alpha if you're optimizing texture calls, but always have one.
That being said, there are two major elements that are wrong or missing in your material. The specular should actually be a flat grey scale for these two materials. You're reflecting them with color which makes them read as a different type of material (This is assuming your gold color is actually paint and not a conductive material). Secondly, You need to look into adding an environment map. They do wonders in selling metal surfaces as real.
Here's some useful information:
UDK texture Information: http://udn.epicgames.com/Three/TexturingGuidelines.html
UDK Material Creation Tutorials: http://www.3dmotive.com/training/udk/udk-material-series-part-1/?follow=true
The latter costs money but they have some great info on there. It's completely worth it (and there's a holiday special).
All of it?
Are the yellow bits supposed to be a yellowish metal like gold, or are they painted over metal portions?
I set up my Specular Power as a constant at about 4.0 in UDK. Did I do it wrong?
Also, the whole thing is supposed to be metal. The yellow part is supposed to be a yellowy coated metal.
I did look at the tutorials online (the same ones, actually, excluding the paid one). I am a point where the questions are: What am I not doing? And: What am I doing wrong?
I'm looking at the tutorials and at metal textures made by others and I see something is off with mine. But I can't quite grasp what :-/
4 seems way too low for your specular power value, try something between, 30 and 60 if using a constant, right now it is way to low which is resulting in a very wide hotspot.
also try putting detail that only exists in your specular texture.
What do you mean by that?
EDIT:
Also, bumping up the specular power from 4 to 40, along with brightening the specular map seems to have helped a bit, but it's not really worth posting a pic.
As for the previous suggestion of making the specular map black&white, I noticed that the whole thing looks like plastic without the added sort-of-metallish-color specular.
http://www.3dtotal.com/tutorial/texturing_and_lighting/brief_consideration_about_materials/brief_consideration_about_materials_01.php
If by 'yellowy' coated material you mean that the gold color is paint then the spec map still should be a grayscale color. If you mean bronze or gold then the spec should be a slightly augmented version of that same gold color.
The specular power change to 40 is a good change 4 was way to low for a metallic surface. The next step to take it from plastic to metal is to add an environment map.
Edit: Also, What Passerby meant by that is that you can paint different scuff marks and details into your specular map that are not in the diffuse map. Doing that makes the object much more interesting when light is hitting it.
As for Passerby's suggestion, the specular does have more general clutter but I guess it gets lost in everything. Are there some general guidelines as to what 'scuff marks and details' I can add to the specular to make it look good?
Also is there a rule stating whether or not my specular should be bright or dark in this case?
Here's an example of a quick test metal I just made in UDK. Not perfect by any means but I think it reads pretty well as a metal.
For example, quick PS levels and saturation adjustment:
Additionally, slap a reflection/cube map on that if you can afford it (and, of course, it's meant to be shiny). That will go a long way towards selling the material as metal.
I shall try your brightness suggestions, Lotekk. As for Noltan, I'm going to read that article back-to-back now and adjust my specular
Once I've done these two things, I'll make a pic of the result asking for more possible suggestions.
Also, what about my diffuse? Does it read well as a metal? Anything I can do to improve it?
a few extra instructions, and 1 more texture call, shouldn't be too bad on memory since it isn't like every prop needs it;s own cubemap.
UDK's RTT is done through the editor AFAIK so that shouldn't be a problem. But the question is: is putting a cube map on everything metal (which is A LOT of props) a good way for a game?
As for my progress:
I'm not entirely sure about my reflection map setup.
All crits welcome!
While something big or up close will see the benefits. Voila, done, now you have strength control of your cubemap as well per mask.
Also, there are 3 places you can put your Cubemap, each one will give different results. Diffuse, Emissive and Specular, and each one will affect the lighting and color information of your model drastically.
Also, I really do suggest a Gloss Map, specifically one that is coded in RGBA context, here is what I mean:
Basically, paint your trays (the yellow parts) in Red and the main body in Blue.
Now take your Red channel, and multiply by a constant. Do the same for the blue channel, and add them both. Plug the result into the Specular Power slot, and voila, instant control per mask in real-time.
Do the same with the Cube-Map, multiply the whole cubemap RGB by the Red channel, and multiply that result by a constant, now add it to either the Emissive, Diffuse or multiply it by the Specular texture.
Remember, the Gloss map is more important then a Specular map, you can recreate the Specular map math wise, from the Normal Map and Diffuse, and if you really get clever, generate normal maps from your diffuse and break it apart again to generate extra details for your Spec, but a Gloss map can help do all the masking and giving your material weight which cannot be generate math wise from other textures.
Now how do I end up with something that isn't so hopelessly dark? o.O
EDIT:
@AceAngel:
Wouldn't it be better to create a specular-map-like glossmap for the whole thing, rather than a constant?
Also, are there good tuts on gloss maps and their behaviour? Either I'm blind or there aren't any on the internetz.
And thanks again for the help everyone! Keep them coming
EDIT2:
Edited pic to reflect some changes I made. Still, this is SOOOO dark. Unnaceptable for game purposes. How do I fight it? Why did you tell me to make the diffuse so dark in the first place? Oh, the questions! And I can't seem to grasp the answers
Dark diffuse is used because many metals actually have a dark diffuse color. The difference between this dark diffuse and the bright 'specular' highlight is what gives many metals their unique look.
Your specular map should have many details that are NOT in your diffuse as someone suggested earlier. This allows for your metal to become dynamic and change with lighting conditions.
I find the specular looks best with most metals when your map has a VERY high contrast. This exaggerates the effects of the light hitting the object and helps push it's metalliness.
Separate your materials! Think of it this way. Your 'yellow' metal would most likely be 'painted' metal. So in your specular layer have this to be a certain gloss and specular value. Then any 'scratches' dig down into the paint and reveal the 'actual' metal. This could have a much different value for the diffuse/spec/gloss.
I prefer a low gloss value for most metals, about 10-30. This allows large plains of the metal to separate themselves with neighboring areas, giving a very dynamic feel to the object.
Without cubemaps, your objects metallic look will solely rely on your lighting. If you just place 1 light in front of your object it will look bland even with the best of maps. Place the object in the environment or set up a good lighting setup.
TLDR: Use static Cubes. Dark diffuse if needed. Unique Spec/Gloss. Separate your materials. Low gloss value. Good lighting!
Here is an example of an object that has no cubemap that uses lighting to help make somewhat convincing metal: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2344272/misc/Untitled-2.jpg
1: The gloss, or specular power map isn't more important than the specular color map. Some materials do not read correctly without a proper specular color. Its partly why so much of CG stuff LOOKS like its CG. These maps go hand in hand. Rough materials have a larger specular highlight, and so a lower exponent (or darker color in the map), and smoother materials have a higher exponent, or smaller highlight (or brighter color in your map)
2: Metals are, generally speaking, very dark in diffuse color. To answer why, ask yourself what color is a mirror.
Most of the color comes from the environment around the metal which is being reflected. This is why a spec color and or cube map are so important to selling metal as metal. A darker diffuse and a bright spec color like LoTekk suggested will help make the materials pop, provided your specular exponent (aka gloss level) is set right for the type of metal you're looking to make.
A suggestion for your cube map. rather than Multiplying it by .2, plug that into a power node and take it to an exponent of at least 2, then have the multiply, but make it a parameter so you can adjust it in a material instance more easily. you may not even need to drop it down much.
3: Detail in your specular map. Photos of metal aren't of just their diffuse color. Its the whole material. Using a Metal photo in the specular color map is a decent start, especially if you push the constrast up, as the pattern disrupts the specular highlight making the surface of the material appear to change properties or roughness. This is consistent with how we observe metals to behave, ie getting their color and appearance from the surrounding environment.
.. Could write more but lunch is over. Good luck, and keep on working and learning.
Thanks for the summary!
I am doing, or at least trying to do (and possibly failing) everything you mentioned. In the end, though, I decided to bump up the diffuse brightness. This is what I ended up with:
What do you think? Is this a convincing metal? I could really use someone else's eyes to tell me this. I think that my paint looks a bit weird... But I'm not sure anymore. Too many changes in one day XD
So yeah. Thanks for the help so far, now I need some crits
EDIT:
Ninja'd by Vailias so here's a question regarding your post ^^ What? Where? Why? From what I understand, you want me to plug a power node between my cube map and multiply. Why do that? What does it give me? The only result I can think of is making the cube map stand out more which would give a super-shiny look to the metal (too shiny for any real prop, really). Or am I wrong?
The bare metal areas are shinier now with the boosted specular, yes, but it also looks plastic-y.
These examples are exaggerated for effect mind you.
Its not for beginners but still.
http://www.3dtotal.com/team/Tutorials/leafproject/leaf_1.php
http://www.3dtotal.com/forums_frameset/index.php?e=http://www.3dtotal.com/tutorial/texturing_and_lighting/brief_consideration_about_materials/brief_consideration_about_materials_01.php
This is what u need for now man to get metals look metal.
I'll try the dark diffuse approach again (and the power node thing) but, once again, this is NOT the effect I'm looking for.
Metal furniture is NOT super shiny. Things in the garage are NOT super shiny. Your metal watch is NOT super shiny. And yet you all seem to insist that I should make my prop super shiny? That's the part I don't really get o.O
My watch is full metal too high reflective=shiny in other words.
You might be better off trying to find some pictures of the result you're aiming for. There's a difference between doing metal, and doing metal that has coats of some other material covering it (which is probably what you'd find when it comes to metal furnature/etc).
http://2.imimg.com/data2/FN/IQ/MY-2476230/metal-cupboard-250x250.jpg
And something like the blue part here for the painted/coated shelves:
http://www.school-furniture.info/var/shop/storage/images/furniture/lockers/locker-rooms/standard-metal-lockers/locker-room-metal-locker-single-1850-mm-pedestal/locker-room-metal-locker-single-1850-mm-pedestal-pmw13s/1445340-1-eng-GB/locker_room_metal_locker_single_1850_mm_pedestal_pmw13s1_large.jpg
Unfortunately, the way I'm doing it now it seems I can achieve neither. But hey, at least I'm learning something from every post here
Still, any tips on how I could achieve that look? I'm totally clueless after spending hours in photoshop.
apart from photoshop have u worked on any 3d app before like Maya or Max?
If not I would recmmend you should to get better understanding of different materials quickly.
Otherwise its a long way to perfection for you (im being honest ) cause you have to keep making and making textures to get them right, this takes time and years of practice.
I would advice you start off with basic grey metal, and work ur way up on it by making it rusty, coated, scratches etc.
For what i see from all other posts over here is people are trying to help you, but you are trying to mix all the feedback up to get the perfect result on the first run.
Narrow down ur workflow on just making the diffuse color that can "Read" as Metal to the eye. Post the pic here so we can coment on it based on our first look reaction. Dont worry about spec, gloss, reflection etc for now.
Of course I worked on a 3D app before. In fact, I've worked with 3dsmax, XSI and Blender, among others. I'm not sure about the purpose of your question, though.
And regarding the making a diffuse texture that can read, that was actually part of my topic question:
-I have a problem making a diffuse texture that can read.
Nonetheless, do you want me to post the current diffuse that's on the model? Or should I make a new diffuse entirely?
Why I ask that, the reason was simple in Max or Maya u just apply diffuse and later can play with spec and gloss settings just to get the feel right, than can work on those maps in photoshop. It will give u an idea how much light and dark values u have to play with to get the right gloss and spec.
But for now start with a new file and only make diffuse and post its picture.
I only used overlay blendmode, Wet Media and Square Brush and 4 layers, 2 layers with mask. Color range is all light dark shades of grey. Watch the tutorial i send you earlier on how to use mask with this setup.
Is this ur idea of spam here or whats with sports info? Should i report to admin. IT takes time to help others!
here's some actual tips for making metals and other hard surface materials:
-STUDY REFERENCE!!! when making fictional items, find materials similar to what you want to make and study exactly how the material acts. is it glossy or not? dark shadows (diffuse) or fairly light? it shouldn't be hard to translate that into your maps once you figure it out. use common sense!
-start with a "material blockout". this means define your materials first using just solid colors on ALL of your maps. your materials should be clearly readable as what they're supposed to represent without ANY photo overlays or anything. they should feel like the real thing, plain and simple, so don't do anything else until you have super solid materials with only flat colors.
-when adding overlays and unique details, look back at your reference and think about how the real materials are constructed. is the surface bare metal? paint over bare metal? paint over a coating over bare metal? observe and think about how the materials are actually made, not just how they look at a glance!
-specular and gloss are both crucial parts of any hard surface texture, so it's no wonder why most people don't understand how to use them, and the disease of thoughtless white scratches and "diffuse first" workflows still plague the industry. all of your maps need to work together, but that doesn't mean that the diffuse needs to have the same details as the other maps. if you look at texture sheets from really good artists (the 3point guys) you'll notice that their diffuse maps are very simple, but they work together with the spec and gloss to properly represent the surface wear. really, it's as simple as translating material reference into your maps, so just play around and you'll figure it out.
there's no simple solution to "make my metal metal-er" because every type of material requires individual thought. good hard surface texturing boils down to three things: a great observational eye, an exceptional understanding and curiosity for learning how things are made, and making a great material blockout so you can start your texture right. so yeah, thought is how you make it more metal.
if you need any more clarification i'd be happy to help dispel misinformation, as there's lots of it when it comes to texturing.
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http://www.northerntool.com/images/product/zoom_images/153945.jpg
The added bonus being it seems to have almost no diffuse information.
It ended up looking worse than my earlier attempt:
I must be blind or something
I think ur Spec reads more as Galvanised Metal (which is good) so use this as ur diffuse and play with Levels in PS to darken the values for specular. See if this works.
HOW I CAN MAKE LIGHT MAP IN QUEST 3D BUY USE THE EXPORT FROM THE MAX 2012 COLLADA TYPE
THANKS
No, seriously, I spent the entire game just looking at the walls and trying to see what makes them metal. Makes for an entirely unique gameplay experience*...
Anyhow, thanks for your tips, guys. You've been a tremendous help so far! Thanks to you, I think I managed to get something that somewhat looks like metal now:
The diffuse is dark, the specular is bright, high contrast and contains details that aren't on the specular and I added a reflection map with a lot of nodes for tweaking.
Still, I can't help but think (and see) that something's not quite right. It looks much more like metal now but there's tons of room for improvement.
Could you guys help me out some more?
Did I miss a suggestion? Do something in a wrong way? I feel like I could add some detail to the diffuse but whenever I try to it starts looking like my specular (just a bit darker).
Oh, and is there a tutorial anywhere on how to make good reflection maps? They've been the bane of my existence for quite a while now as I could never make them and the UDK-made ones are kinda meh :-/
*"STOP SHOOTING ME! I'm trying to look at that wall!"