@imijatov: I'm sorry about that, I've uploaded the pics using imageshack service, maybe you could try opening the thread with another browser
@artquest, Azkur: I'm using some photos of myself wearing similar clothing and various other references found around the web
@Blind Boy Grunt: Thanks! for the folds I'm currently using a mix of the standard brush, trim dynamic and h polish and also a custom made brush quite similar to the dam_standard to make finer wrinkles.
@RJBonner: I will recreate the bigger ones with the low poly geometry, medium and fine ones will be transfered via normal map of course.
@Bonebrew22: yep, there are many things that still have to be fixed
@thatanimator: Yeah! It would be great viewing this guy in motion some day :P
@d1ver: thank you for your precious notes I'll try to fix anatomy on the face. I would also like to have explained more deeply, if you don't mind, what you said about middle scale details. You thik that at this stage yet it's possible to see an non-uniformity between large forms and middle/small details?
@LRoy:I didn't think about this too much so far, but maybe I will stay as close as possible to the concept. Probably some orange/grey on the backpack and some greentooth spawned around :poly142:
@crazyfool:Thank you so much for your time, I found precious for me:)
I'll absolutely try to rework folds and fix those which aren't working well. on the pants, trying to show some tension where it should be. The references you posted me is incredibly useful !
Thank you all for the great feedback... I'm falling in love with this community !
Going back to work and trying to fix things! Will show you updates as soon as I can!
By middle scale details I mean what people are going to see right after their brain processes the silhouette. Human vision works from large to small shapes extracting info layer by layer if you will.
If someone was trying to recognize your character in a crowd first they'd look for someone with similar body proportions, then try to figure out if the cloth matches, and only then compare the facial features and little details.
A good character design is recognizable one, so it's nice to give your audience something to process on every level.
It also makes for a more balanced design. And if you want middle scale deatils to read you need to have places for eyes to rest, because if everything becomes overly detailed the inside of the silhouette just starts to feel uniform.
Think of metallicas' "ride the lightning", they wanted "fade to black" there so there'd be something other stuff could sound heavy in comparison to.
So yeah, my main advice here would be: build from large details to small.
Only once you feel you nailed the silhouette you move to major lines inside the silhouette and once that's done come the details.
It might help regularly checking your model zoomed out and making sure it works that way first.
The things about details is that they never make an artwork. No matter how awesome they are if they sit on top of large shapes that are off, the picture will look wrong. But if a little detail is wrong somewhere most people never notice.
Now I'm not saying there's something very wrong with your large shapes here. My point is that you went into little details without filling in all your middle scale stuff and now once you add it little stuff is not made to work with it. It might overpover it, it might conflict with it or it might be ok. But I suggest putting every object there's gonna be on the character and then building you little details around it, making sure small stuff supports bigger stuff:
folds on the pants curve around the ancle/knee pads, folds on the chest flow around the bad strap nicely, etc... Right now you see fold on the pants before you see there are pockets underneath.
and from fiddling with this just some ideas you way:
-break the silhouette
transitions from coat to sweater and pants - it would be cool to see them modeled, the clothes are pretty tight and silhouette is pretty smooth. Little things help break it up a bit.
- make the scarf a separate object. Build it around the face. It so much more realistic and will look way cooler.
- the glove is unrealistically foldy, like it's made from a sock or something http://onlybikes.ru/cpics/cover/600_big.jpg
if you want to keep it tall maybe ad a row of those velcro closures where the folds used yo be.
- I enlarged the feet a bit. Dunno if it will work for you but I kinda felt the need for it.
The rest is hopefully obvious from the overpaint, I tried to add the middle scale details that seemed to work. Everything's pretty much from the concept cause those guys at massive black sure know what they're doing.
Aand that's just my opinion. It's your character and you decide how to make it awesome:)
Best of luck, mate. Keep it up.
woah!
I didnt' think about all these things before, and now it seems like you opened a world to me. What you say is really interesting and incredibly helpful! I think there's so much to learn from this post! I'll try to figure out how to add some middle scale details and to break up the silhouette a little to make things a bit more interesting...
Don't know how to thank you for your precious time,hehe you made my day!
Think I'm falling in love with this community...
Replies
@artquest, Azkur: I'm using some photos of myself wearing similar clothing and various other references found around the web
@Blind Boy Grunt: Thanks! for the folds I'm currently using a mix of the standard brush, trim dynamic and h polish and also a custom made brush quite similar to the dam_standard to make finer wrinkles.
@RJBonner: I will recreate the bigger ones with the low poly geometry, medium and fine ones will be transfered via normal map of course.
@Bonebrew22: yep, there are many things that still have to be fixed
@thatanimator: Yeah! It would be great viewing this guy in motion some day :P
@d1ver: thank you for your precious notes
@LRoy:I didn't think about this too much so far, but maybe I will stay as close as possible to the concept. Probably some orange/grey on the backpack and some greentooth spawned around :poly142:
@crazyfool:Thank you so much for your time, I found precious for me:)
I'll absolutely try to rework folds and fix those which aren't working well. on the pants, trying to show some tension where it should be. The references you posted me is incredibly useful
Thank you all for the great feedback... I'm falling in love with this community
Going back to work and trying to fix things! Will show you updates as soon as I can!
That would be amazing
Good work by the way, he's looking amazing. I'm kinda feeding from all your feedback too :P
By middle scale details I mean what people are going to see right after their brain processes the silhouette. Human vision works from large to small shapes extracting info layer by layer if you will.
If someone was trying to recognize your character in a crowd first they'd look for someone with similar body proportions, then try to figure out if the cloth matches, and only then compare the facial features and little details.
A good character design is recognizable one, so it's nice to give your audience something to process on every level.
It also makes for a more balanced design. And if you want middle scale deatils to read you need to have places for eyes to rest, because if everything becomes overly detailed the inside of the silhouette just starts to feel uniform.
Think of metallicas' "ride the lightning", they wanted "fade to black" there so there'd be something other stuff could sound heavy in comparison to.
So yeah, my main advice here would be: build from large details to small.
Only once you feel you nailed the silhouette you move to major lines inside the silhouette and once that's done come the details.
It might help regularly checking your model zoomed out and making sure it works that way first.
The things about details is that they never make an artwork. No matter how awesome they are if they sit on top of large shapes that are off, the picture will look wrong. But if a little detail is wrong somewhere most people never notice.
Now I'm not saying there's something very wrong with your large shapes here. My point is that you went into little details without filling in all your middle scale stuff and now once you add it little stuff is not made to work with it. It might overpover it, it might conflict with it or it might be ok. But I suggest putting every object there's gonna be on the character and then building you little details around it, making sure small stuff supports bigger stuff:
folds on the pants curve around the ancle/knee pads, folds on the chest flow around the bad strap nicely, etc... Right now you see fold on the pants before you see there are pockets underneath.
and from fiddling with this just some ideas you way:
-break the silhouette
transitions from coat to sweater and pants - it would be cool to see them modeled, the clothes are pretty tight and silhouette is pretty smooth. Little things help break it up a bit.
- make the scarf a separate object. Build it around the face. It so much more realistic and will look way cooler.
- the glove is unrealistically foldy, like it's made from a sock or something
http://onlybikes.ru/cpics/cover/600_big.jpg
if you want to keep it tall maybe ad a row of those velcro closures where the folds used yo be.
- I enlarged the feet a bit. Dunno if it will work for you but I kinda felt the need for it.
The rest is hopefully obvious from the overpaint, I tried to add the middle scale details that seemed to work. Everything's pretty much from the concept cause those guys at massive black sure know what they're doing.
Aand that's just my opinion. It's your character and you decide how to make it awesome:)
Best of luck, mate. Keep it up.
I didnt' think about all these things before, and now it seems like you opened a world to me.
Don't know how to thank you for your precious time,hehe you made my day!
Think I'm falling in love with this community...
cheers!