Yeah, I really enjoyed Maya and Max for having just the Tri Count being there, not having to enter or exit a certain mode and having to triangulate the meshes.
In max it even sat in it's own floating window and you could set a limit with a bar that visually showed sort of where you mesh sat in accordance to the limit. Those little extras aren't really too important, but just being able to see the tri count at a glance would be nice, maybe with some customizable options?
Like whether or not hidden geometry is included in the face/triangle count?
It would be nice if the stats on the top bar displayed Verts, Quads, Tris and edges at the same time. Other than that, I dont really have a problem with it
Can't you do this setting the snapping to edge or vert (ctrl+shift+tab), then holding ctrl and mousing over the components you want to snap to?
That doesn't seem to work for me but thanks for the suggestion.There's an addon for it now,Mesh:Vertex slide,seems to work fine. Is there anyway to snap vertices to the grid in vertex creation mode(holding ctrl and Lclick in edit mode)turning on snap to increment doesn't seem to do it.
I don't think so. It looks that bmesh development has some serious problems. Only one guy (with some health issues) is "working" on it so it doesn't look good. I wouldn't expect seeing it done in the next 2 years
Exactly, there are now multiple coders working on it. There have been a lot of commits in recent weeks, and I've used the Bmesh builds for a bit. There are some crashes still, but things seem to be working quite well already.
Let's keep this going, shall we? I'd be interested to know what functionailty (built-in or otherwise) people would miss most when switching from their preferred software.
I liked having the subdivison level keys in Silo, it was just a case of pressing one to go up a level, another to go down, didn't even need a modifier. It would be nice to have something similar in Blender (even if it's just a case of being able to assign hotkeys to the division levels in the subsurf modifier).
Mongrelman: ctrl+1,2,3...
Doesn't work if you have 'emulate numpad' set in the preferences, mind.
You don't even need to add a subdivision modifier beforehand, although annoyingly there is no way to have it remember your preferred settings (such as enabling it in edit mode!)
Most of the things I'd like require Bmesh implentation first, just really after standard things in other programs like the split polygon tool in maya, cutting geometry and not destroying UVs or creating tris (ie. needing ngons).
Having the UV selection be connected with the geometry selection would be great. I know you can do it now, but it's kind of a faff as you have to turn that setting on, then some tools don't work whilst that is activated.
Artsymptom: Mind elaborating on that? It would help in evaluating and requesting the feature.
Mongrelman: No clue, but I was similarly surprised when I found it!
About the split polygon tool, is that like the knife tool in Max? Because there's an implementation of that in Bmesh builds already, although I haven't had a chance to try it. Either way, I think the Wings3d\Silo\Voidworld (in reversed order of magnificance ) is the best I've ever used, and would like to see it in Blender.
I never got on with the knife in Maya, it doesn't seem to work for me. If I just click madly on the mesh and then rmb there will be new verts, but I can't for the life of me get it to work as expected. Any thoughts?
I've read a bit about the knife tool in Bmesh which I think is more or less what I'm after, just not tried Bmesh at all (waiting for it to be integrated into trunk). I expect most of the things I'd personally like are/will be in it.
The only real problem I've had with the split poly tool in maya is when trying to place a vert in the middle of a face, Maya just doesn't seem to like that. Worked great in Silo.
Basically: I'm hoping to have Silo modeling in Blender
Mongrelman: Join the club! Seriously though, that is kind of what I'm trying to do as well. Although I think Voidworld offers some improvements on the Silo system by integrating the Wings3d lmb/mmb/rmb tool functionality. The knife tool also has one improvement on that of Silo, but I forgot what it was now.
Either way, I want to approximate my Silo workflow in Blender, but without sacrificing the unique things that Blender itself has, such as manipulator-less operations (which I miss terribly, even in Silo).
I'll be pleased if I can set things up the way I like myself, but there are some things that need to be implemented first (sticky keys, selection highlighting, multi-selection) for that to work.
I've been putting it off, but I really want to write a clear document that documents clearly (heh) the advantages these things offer, even to those who use and love Blender's defaults. As a last resort I could set up a donation-system and get someone to code it for me (possibly as a plugin), but that's really a last, laaaast resort.
I've spent the last couple nights really getting my head into blender. There are a lot of modo-like things that are really nice. Customizable windows, gizmo-less operations (seriously). Not having select and move be the same damn tool. I actually read somewhere some people changing the default selection method from lasso to box so it felt more like max. What the hell is even the point, then?
Max users: if you're still using box select instead of lasso, how do they say, "UR DOIN IT WRONG!"
That's funny, but don't you have to set the statistics type every time you make a new file? If you hit '7', don't you get a quad count for the entire scene?
I'm having some preview issues with Blender on my new laptop. When I scroll over a menu that should pop out, it does but I can't see it until I move my cursor over it. Also, if I try and import an .obj, I can't see all the tabs on the right, so I can't add a modifier to it. And when I press tab to enter edit mode with it, it doesn't display the wireframe. This is in the x86 and x64 versions. Everything was fine on my older laptops. Maybe I'm using a wrong display type? I was also getting errors in Max 2012, so I changed from nitrous to openGL. How do I change these settings in Blender?
Andreas: Just as in Blender, you can set a default file that gets loaded when you launch max or start a new file.
Those issues you're having sound like they might be either driver issues, or something to do with Win7's tablet 'features' (annoyances). Do yourself a favour and urn those off and see if that fixes it.
Yeah, they have a kind of ripple effect on a tablet's click, which messes with Max's rmb-menu, and a lot of other things. Disabling this would also get rid of the tablet writing tools and all that stuff. http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=67588
As for not being able to enter edit mode, I believe you may just need to deselect all (press A) and reselect your mesh. This is something I've noticed with importing.
Hmm, I'm still getting issues. Fresh installs, tried 32 and 64 bit versions, no difference. Is there something I can mess around with in the user preferences that might help?
has anyone found a way to get meshes into blender from other packages like maya and still have there smoothing intact, with there proper hard and soft edges?
and is there anyways to get FBX import so i can get fully skinned and animated models into blender.
Passerby: As I mentioned a few posts up, Blender right now has no support for smoothing groups that I know of. You can achieve the same thing by actually splitting edges, but ofcourse that hampers your workflow.
Use the edgesplit modifier, it'll have no impact on your workflow, and it's actually one of the best ways of handling normals in terms of workflow that I've seen (except that they actually are splits).
Smooth groups are kind of silly anyway. What you really want is something like maya's hard/soft edges. Max's smooth groups are a totally stupid and roundabout way of getting hard/soft normals.
i know how the edge split thing works, my problem is having to re-do all my smoothing once in blender, it wont maintain and of the work i do in maya with my edge hardening, and forces me to have to redo it all and manually mark all my hard edges from maya as sharp in blender.
it isnt a so much a issue of the system used for normals either since i can do my hard edges in maya and take it to max via obj or fbx, and it still looks like it should, even know max uses a smoothing group system as opposed to the harden normal thing maya does on edges or the edge spilt system blender uses.
has anyone found a way to get meshes into blender from other packages like maya and still have there smoothing intact, with there proper hard and soft edges?
and is there anyways to get FBX import so i can get fully skinned and animated models into blender.
For smoothing the only way to guaranty import is to set it up so it physically splits the mesh along the shared vertices/faces. The problem here isn't that Blender can't do 'smoothing', the issue is it doesn't import whatever proprietary mechanism "X" software uses so it ignore that data in favour of mesh/surface data only (format dependent obviously).
@Ganemi i already know how the system works since it is the same work-flow as maya for doing smoothing, but i find absolutely crazy is that blender is the only 3d package i ever used that cant read the smoothing/normals from other apps. also im not trying to argue the best method, i just want to get my mesh from 1 app to the next while maintaining all this information.
@kat it's not so much a "proprietary mechanism" thing, since harding normals, and smoothing groups are just 2 ways to edit vertex normal data, which is already stored in most formats, like obj, which is why i can carry this information between most apps even though they use different methods to achieve the same thing.
doesn't matter the format, i export with, i cant get the smoothing into blender, im using blender 2.60.0, and and exporting out of maya 2012, i know it is not a problem with the the export since modo, voidworld, silo and 3ds are all fine with it, and import the smoothing and normals correctly.
more or less only trying to get things into blender because i like blender skinning and animation system, and maya doesn't have a good exporter for the source engine.
think it has to do with the approach every other app out there takes compared to blender, blender physically splits the mesh, on edges marked sharp, maya and everything else splits the vertex normals but leaves the mesh the same, i also noticed in blender there is no way to edit vertex normals by hand either.
doesn't matter the format, i export with, i cant get the smoothing into blender, im using blender 2.60.0, and and exporting out of maya 2012, i know it is not a problem with the the export since modo, voidworld, silo and 3ds are all fine with it, and import the smoothing and normals correctly.
more or less only trying to get things into blender because i like blender skinning and animation system, and maya doesn't have a good exporter for the source engine.
think it has to do with the approach every other app out there takes compared to blender, blender physically splits the mesh, on edges marked sharp, maya and everything else splits the vertex normals but leaves the mesh the same, i also noticed in blender there is no way to edit vertex normals by hand either.
I speculate every other app has a monetary interest in being compatible with Max and Maya to promote more sales, while Blender is focused on making sure their own tools are in top form because they monetize other revenue streams.
I think it's more a matter of Blender being focused much more on other aspects of CG than game development.
I too would like to see custom vertex normal editing and import/export capabilities in Blender. For one thing physically splitting "hard" edges makes it a lot more troublesome to properly bake normal maps in xNormal with an averaged cage.
ya that is why i only have been using it for the final export to source engine at this point, since i cant properly bake things that come out of blender, also having no vertex normal editing also limits what you can do for making cards for foliage, since it is common practice to manually point vertex normals upwards on foliage cards to make them light better.
@greevar ya i understand that but that also really limits how it can be used, and makes it impossible to try to fit blender into a existing work-flow.
really edge spilt is already a modifier, so they could make blender be able to read vertex normals, than use a other modifier to read and apply them to the mesh, that way you can maintain the old way of things for existing blender-only users, and allow it to play nice with people who use everything else.
I'm not sure what has been said so far but the most important things for me are:
snapping directly to the grid and not just relative to it (coupled with changing the size and divisions of the grid could make it very powerful for modeling), a viewport that just works (if I put on a texture and a bump I want to be able to see them in a functional way without switching viewport rendering or needing a light setup), better(up to date) fbx export and a way to set default settings for it, and the ability to model from scratch and draw polys (like starting from nothing, placing a point down, extruding, and connecting to make polys).
I'm not sure what has been said so far but the most important things for me are:
snapping directly to the grid and not just relative to it (coupled with changing the size and divisions of the grid could make it very powerful for modeling), a viewport that just works (if I put on a texture and a bump I want to be able to see them in a functional way without switching viewport rendering or needing a light setup), better(up to date) fbx export and a way to set default settings for it, and the ability to model from scratch and draw polys (like starting from nothing, placing a point down, extruding, and connecting to make polys).
You can create polygons by extruding from a single vertex. You have to add a mesh and collapse it to one vertex first, but from there you can do what you're asking for. Select a vertex, hit E, and place the new vertex. Once you have a shape, you can select four vertices and fill it with F. It's not perfect, but it works.
Aye, I normally just select a vert from a mesh I already have, then shift+D to duplicate it, P to break it off into it's own object, then extrude out from there.
But yes, it would be nice to just create from scratch.
I found a problem a few days ago, if I tried to make instances of an object, it wouldn't work if the base object had a subsurf modifier. Instead it would just do normal duplicates.
Actually, I just exported something from Blender to Max (as obj), and it appeared with Smoothing Groups intact. No edge splits either, oddly enough:
In the import settings in Blender it says 'surround smoothing groups with sharp edges', but the edges don't show up blue (as sharp edges do), and marking edges sharp doesn't have the same effect on the shading.
also got a quick question, too is there a way to make blender display it's current grid settings. The subdivisions in ortho view are nice to have but pretty useless, when you got no clue what a grid line represents after zooming in.
like say i got my grid scale at 8 units, and 2 subdivisions, after zooming in there is no way to tell of a grid space represents the original 8 units or 4 or 2.
Sorry for the bump, but I'm trying to keep all the Blender info in a few places
Antony Riakiotakis (Psi-Fi) has been working on a triangulation modifier which has been coded especially for game artists and requires some testers. http://www.graphicall.org/1013
It doesn't do anything other than what you would expect, but any comments would be cool
Replies
In max it even sat in it's own floating window and you could set a limit with a bar that visually showed sort of where you mesh sat in accordance to the limit. Those little extras aren't really too important, but just being able to see the tri count at a glance would be nice, maybe with some customizable options?
Like whether or not hidden geometry is included in the face/triangle count?
Just some more information on Bmesh, which is basically a complete replacement of the (ooold) mesh system. These are things we all expect, so it's good to see they're coming!
I don't think so. It looks that bmesh development has some serious problems. Only one guy (with some health issues) is "working" on it so it doesn't look good. I wouldn't expect seeing it done in the next 2 years
Doesn't work if you have 'emulate numpad' set in the preferences, mind.
You don't even need to add a subdivision modifier beforehand, although annoyingly there is no way to have it remember your preferred settings (such as enabling it in edit mode!)
Cheers
Most of the things I'd like require Bmesh implentation first, just really after standard things in other programs like the split polygon tool in maya, cutting geometry and not destroying UVs or creating tris (ie. needing ngons).
Having the UV selection be connected with the geometry selection would be great. I know you can do it now, but it's kind of a faff as you have to turn that setting on, then some tools don't work whilst that is activated.
Mongrelman: No clue, but I was similarly surprised when I found it!
About the split polygon tool, is that like the knife tool in Max? Because there's an implementation of that in Bmesh builds already, although I haven't had a chance to try it. Either way, I think the Wings3d\Silo\Voidworld (in reversed order of magnificance
I never got on with the knife in Maya, it doesn't seem to work for me. If I just click madly on the mesh and then rmb there will be new verts, but I can't for the life of me get it to work as expected. Any thoughts?
The only real problem I've had with the split poly tool in maya is when trying to place a vert in the middle of a face, Maya just doesn't seem to like that. Worked great in Silo.
Basically: I'm hoping to have Silo modeling in Blender
Either way, I want to approximate my Silo workflow in Blender, but without sacrificing the unique things that Blender itself has, such as manipulator-less operations (which I miss terribly, even in Silo).
I'll be pleased if I can set things up the way I like myself, but there are some things that need to be implemented first (sticky keys, selection highlighting, multi-selection) for that to work.
I've been putting it off, but I really want to write a clear document that documents clearly (heh) the advantages these things offer, even to those who use and love Blender's defaults. As a last resort I could set up a donation-system and get someone to code it for me (possibly as a plugin), but that's really a last, laaaast resort.
Max users: if you're still using box select instead of lasso, how do they say, "UR DOIN IT WRONG!"
That's funny, but don't you have to set the statistics type every time you make a new file? If you hit '7', don't you get a quad count for the entire scene?
I'm having some preview issues with Blender on my new laptop. When I scroll over a menu that should pop out, it does but I can't see it until I move my cursor over it. Also, if I try and import an .obj, I can't see all the tabs on the right, so I can't add a modifier to it. And when I press tab to enter edit mode with it, it doesn't display the wireframe. This is in the x86 and x64 versions. Everything was fine on my older laptops. Maybe I'm using a wrong display type? I was also getting errors in Max 2012, so I changed from nitrous to openGL. How do I change these settings in Blender?
Those issues you're having sound like they might be either driver issues, or something to do with Win7's tablet 'features' (annoyances). Do yourself a favour and urn those off and see if that fixes it.
http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=67588
and is there anyways to get FBX import so i can get fully skinned and animated models into blender.
it isnt a so much a issue of the system used for normals either since i can do my hard edges in maya and take it to max via obj or fbx, and it still looks like it should, even know max uses a smoothing group system as opposed to the harden normal thing maya does on edges or the edge spilt system blender uses.
@kat it's not so much a "proprietary mechanism" thing, since harding normals, and smoothing groups are just 2 ways to edit vertex normal data, which is already stored in most formats, like obj, which is why i can carry this information between most apps even though they use different methods to achieve the same thing.
more or less only trying to get things into blender because i like blender skinning and animation system, and maya doesn't have a good exporter for the source engine.
think it has to do with the approach every other app out there takes compared to blender, blender physically splits the mesh, on edges marked sharp, maya and everything else splits the vertex normals but leaves the mesh the same, i also noticed in blender there is no way to edit vertex normals by hand either.
I speculate every other app has a monetary interest in being compatible with Max and Maya to promote more sales, while Blender is focused on making sure their own tools are in top form because they monetize other revenue streams.
I too would like to see custom vertex normal editing and import/export capabilities in Blender. For one thing physically splitting "hard" edges makes it a lot more troublesome to properly bake normal maps in xNormal with an averaged cage.
@greevar ya i understand that but that also really limits how it can be used, and makes it impossible to try to fit blender into a existing work-flow.
really edge spilt is already a modifier, so they could make blender be able to read vertex normals, than use a other modifier to read and apply them to the mesh, that way you can maintain the old way of things for existing blender-only users, and allow it to play nice with people who use everything else.
snapping directly to the grid and not just relative to it (coupled with changing the size and divisions of the grid could make it very powerful for modeling), a viewport that just works (if I put on a texture and a bump I want to be able to see them in a functional way without switching viewport rendering or needing a light setup), better(up to date) fbx export and a way to set default settings for it, and the ability to model from scratch and draw polys (like starting from nothing, placing a point down, extruding, and connecting to make polys).
You can create polygons by extruding from a single vertex. You have to add a mesh and collapse it to one vertex first, but from there you can do what you're asking for. Select a vertex, hit E, and place the new vertex. Once you have a shape, you can select four vertices and fill it with F. It's not perfect, but it works.
But yes, it would be nice to just create from scratch.
I found a problem a few days ago, if I tried to make instances of an object, it wouldn't work if the base object had a subsurf modifier. Instead it would just do normal duplicates.
In the import settings in Blender it says 'surround smoothing groups with sharp edges', but the edges don't show up blue (as sharp edges do), and marking edges sharp doesn't have the same effect on the shading.
like say i got my grid scale at 8 units, and 2 subdivisions, after zooming in there is no way to tell of a grid space represents the original 8 units or 4 or 2.
Antony Riakiotakis (Psi-Fi) has been working on a triangulation modifier which has been coded especially for game artists and requires some testers.
http://www.graphicall.org/1013
It doesn't do anything other than what you would expect, but any comments would be cool