Let's take a very simple example, WW2. Was it just a small group together with Hitler, or whole germany that made them do what they did.
Well, ofc a very big part of germany were taking part in it. But you got to remember that a lot of em didn't have much choice. (So I'm specifically not saying all germans during WW2 were to blame)
And is hitler (and a small group) supposed to be considered the only ones who made it all happen? I think not tbh, cause if none had listened to him, nothing would've happened.
It's not like he flew all those planes carrying the bombs, fired all the bullets, and carried out all of the work that SS did, no? :poly121:
And while I understand your analogy there, this doesn't really have anything to do with war. There's certain other variables to consider, such as, the employees of Apple wouldn't necessarily be up for death penalty in case they choose to get a different job or start their own company.
All I'm saying is, Steve Jobs was pretty good at what he did, and he's dead. So let's not try and make a point in this thread about how he wasn't the only one responsible for the success of apple or whatever. Posting such a thing in this thread is just as inappropriate as me posting that comparison with WW2
Well, ofc a very big part of germany were taking part in it. But you got to remember that a lot of em didn't have much choice. (So I'm specifically not saying all germans during WW2 were to blame)
And is hitler (and a small group) supposed to be considered the only ones who made it all happen? I think not tbh, cause if none had listened to him, nothing would've happened.
It's not like he flew all those planes carrying the bombs, fired all the bullets, and carried out all of the work that SS did, no? :poly121:
And while I understand your analogy there, this doesn't really have anything to do with war. There's certain other variables to consider, such as, the employees of Apple wouldn't necessarily be up for death penalty in case they choose to get a different job or start their own company.
Cheers
Reading this article on wired, it seems that Jobs actually had a huge role in forexample the creation of the Apple II even though he didn't do the hardware design, but was the main motiviation and criticism by the young engineers doing it, so would it be wrong to credit him something that probably wouldn't have happened if he haven't been there. Jobs largest personality flaw was also what made him so damn good at his job. He was ruthless and a prick, but he knew what he and the entire Apple consumer base wanted and only by being so 'incosiderate' was he able to drive the Apple team to where it is today.
Well, I'd love to hop the bandwagon here and praise him, not only for what he's done but also for the person he were. But truth be told I don't know him one bit.
Suffice to say, that nevertheless, he contributed a lot to the development of the modern computer, both the mac and PC. And it all started out in (his garage/basement?), gotta give a man with passion like that some cred.
Cheerios
Zpanzer: I never said it's wrong to give Steve credit. My reply there concerned the analogy to ww2. Still I agree with poop that the employees of Apple also deserve some of it, and that he's not the only one to be praised for it all.
I'm not sure this thread is the appropriate place to air personal grievances with the man and how he lived his life. You wouldn't walk into a funeral and start talking shit, would you?
Maybe you should read 'Speaker for the Dead' from Orson Scott Card, it has an interesting approach on the subject matter.
Without funding it probably would of died with Lucas's marriage. I don't think anyone has ever given Jobs credit for creating. What I appreciate is that he saw enough potential to invest and keep it going so it could go on to do the things that it has.
Jobs bought Pixar because he wanted to prove to Apple and the CEO who fired him that he 'gets' hardware better than anyone. Pixar has been making the Pixar Image Computer at that time and CG animation was just a dream of Lasseter and Catmull. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pixar_Image_Computer
Jobs eventually gave them their support for making animated shorts and then movies, indeed, but he also considered selling or closing the company several times. He himself hasn't been a believer in CG animation, did not see any potential in it or anything.
It was mostly a set of lucky circumstances that Lasseter and his team has eventually gotten the chance to prove themselves.
Edit: hardware is also the same reason why Jobs bought Next Computers. Their systems did not catch on either (although Carmack and id Software used them to create Doom and Quake) but ironically their software, the NextStep operating system, has eventually made it into the core of the new Mac OS, OSX.
So he actually failed twice on the hardware front but both companies ended up giving him a lot in other, unexpected fields.
Replies
Well, ofc a very big part of germany were taking part in it. But you got to remember that a lot of em didn't have much choice. (So I'm specifically not saying all germans during WW2 were to blame)
And is hitler (and a small group) supposed to be considered the only ones who made it all happen? I think not tbh, cause if none had listened to him, nothing would've happened.
It's not like he flew all those planes carrying the bombs, fired all the bullets, and carried out all of the work that SS did, no? :poly121:
And while I understand your analogy there, this doesn't really have anything to do with war. There's certain other variables to consider, such as, the employees of Apple wouldn't necessarily be up for death penalty in case they choose to get a different job or start their own company.
Cheers
All I'm saying is, Steve Jobs was pretty good at what he did, and he's dead. So let's not try and make a point in this thread about how he wasn't the only one responsible for the success of apple or whatever. Posting such a thing in this thread is just as inappropriate as me posting that comparison with WW2
Reading this article on wired, it seems that Jobs actually had a huge role in forexample the creation of the Apple II even though he didn't do the hardware design, but was the main motiviation and criticism by the young engineers doing it, so would it be wrong to credit him something that probably wouldn't have happened if he haven't been there. Jobs largest personality flaw was also what made him so damn good at his job. He was ruthless and a prick, but he knew what he and the entire Apple consumer base wanted and only by being so 'incosiderate' was he able to drive the Apple team to where it is today.
Atleast thats my humble opinion.
Well, I'd love to hop the bandwagon here and praise him, not only for what he's done but also for the person he were. But truth be told I don't know him one bit.
Suffice to say, that nevertheless, he contributed a lot to the development of the modern computer, both the mac and PC. And it all started out in (his garage/basement?), gotta give a man with passion like that some cred.
Cheerios
Zpanzer: I never said it's wrong to give Steve credit. My reply there concerned the analogy to ww2. Still I agree with poop that the employees of Apple also deserve some of it, and that he's not the only one to be praised for it all.
I don't think anyone crediting him on his achievements ever said he was the everything and everyone of Apple...
Maybe you should read 'Speaker for the Dead' from Orson Scott Card, it has an interesting approach on the subject matter.
Jobs bought Pixar because he wanted to prove to Apple and the CEO who fired him that he 'gets' hardware better than anyone. Pixar has been making the Pixar Image Computer at that time and CG animation was just a dream of Lasseter and Catmull.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pixar_Image_Computer
Jobs eventually gave them their support for making animated shorts and then movies, indeed, but he also considered selling or closing the company several times. He himself hasn't been a believer in CG animation, did not see any potential in it or anything.
It was mostly a set of lucky circumstances that Lasseter and his team has eventually gotten the chance to prove themselves.
Edit: hardware is also the same reason why Jobs bought Next Computers. Their systems did not catch on either (although Carmack and id Software used them to create Doom and Quake) but ironically their software, the NextStep operating system, has eventually made it into the core of the new Mac OS, OSX.
So he actually failed twice on the hardware front but both companies ended up giving him a lot in other, unexpected fields.