wouldn't another solution (politics aside, i realise how important they are and i agree whole heartedly with the argument. i just want to focus on money/incomes for a second) be to force a cap on how much a person can earn within a year?
i mean, anyone that pulls in over 500k a year is going to live more than comfortably, anyone that pulls in over 1m per year is never going to want/need for anything.
so why not say that when a person reaches an income of 2m, anything above that amount must be forced back into their company/another company in order to stimulate growth?
Well, why not just raise employee wages across the board and not bother paying the top dogs so much? Perhaps a percentage cap of the company's total revenue? "No corporate employee may be paid more than 10% of company's revenue or no more than 10 times the lowest wage earner in the company, which ever is the lowest. No shareholder will hold more than 5% of the company's stock and all stock must be held by individuals. No company may own stock in another." That sounds fair and sustainable. Though IMHO, all employees of any public company should be paid an equal share of the company revenue (after fixed costs) and all employees shall have equal power over company decisions that effect all workers. But I think that's just a pipe dream that nobody would go for.
Now, what I would add to the declaration myself is to completely eliminate the Federal Reserve and nationalize the banks. Loans will be interest-free and subject to thorough credit history, asset, and income inspection prior to approval to determine ability to repay the loan and held to a high standard of eligibility. Loan amounts will also be subject to income and asset. No loan will be issued that would exceed the borrower's ability to repay. Charging interest shall be illegal and all current interest owed shall be extinguished. Administration costs will be tax funded. Defaults will be resolved with either wage garnishing or restructured payment plans based on economic need. Failing that, property will be seized (primary vehicle exempt), any government assistance will be withheld, and tax refunds will be intercepted. Federal Reserve Notes shall be replaced with US Treasury Notes and all monies will be issued only by an act of the US Treasury in accordance with economic need. All other creation of money will constitute counterfeiting and be subject to applicable laws.
Corporations should be reverted to their original form of 10 or 30 year span, no ownership of other corporations and they must serve the public good first as their charter mandates it or it shall be void and all shareholders will be vulnerable to full liability. They were given limited liability to serve the public good and so they should required to do as such.
All public universities shall be free of tuition and acceptance of enrollment shall be contingent upon review and assessment of academic aptitude and ability. Name, gender, and race will not be known to the academic reviewer, a generated alphanumerical ID shall be automatically and randomly assigned. Those that do not meet the requirements shall have the option to attend a free public vocational school to learn a trade if they still choose to pursue post-secondary education. All public and private schools will be required to provide education on money management and personal budgeting. Private schools shall be non-profit, reinvesting all revenue into the faculty, facilities, and scholarships. Anyone who chooses not to enter post-secondary education shall be enrolled, at their option, in an employment services plan to assess interests and aptitude to help job seekers find and acquire appropriate employment.
I think so far OWS has been very successful in trying to educate the uneducated about our debt, income inequality, the banks, and the Federal Reserve through newspapers talking about this, blogs, websites and forum discussions like this.
I think so far OWS has been very successful in trying to educate the uneducated about our debt, income inequality, the banks, and the Federal Reserve through newspapers talking about this, blogs, websites and forum discussions like this.
I agree. It has at least made people curious enough to search.
Hey Mark, is that official? I see no link nor mention of it on the OWS site. In fact, the last time I heard demands, it was only a suggestion from a forum member that got spread around the media as the official lineup.
I think so far OWS has been very successful in trying to educate the uneducated about our debt, income inequality, the banks, and the Federal Reserve through newspapers talking about this, blogs, websites and forum discussions like this.
Yep, I agree and could get behind the entire thing. I do think they should include that the reversal of the ruling that keeps the financial regulatory body from overseeing the credit derivatives market. They should also include an increase in funding to the financial regulatory bodies, and legislation to prevent the incest that goes on between the major financial corporations and the current financial regulatory bodies.
Hey Mark, is that official? I see no link nor mention of it on the OWS site. In fact, the last time I heard demands, it was only a suggestion from a forum member that got spread around the media as the official lineup.
They have General Assembly where ideas get hashed out, they also have different working groups tasked with specific things, clean up, security, communication, medical, food groups, aid, dozens of support groups bla bla bla... Michael S. Parsons started a new working group, according to group it was suggested and created by the General Assembly and will report back to it.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the99declaration/ "This OWS Working Group originated in New York City at Liberty Park following the Working Group's announcement to the General Assembly and subsequent meeting. This Working Group follows the procedures of the General Assembly and intends to prepare regular "report backs" to the local General Assemblies."
I believe there hasn't been anything official on their main site because the working group is still hammering out the details and will pass this to the GA when they think its ready for a consensus vote.
More than likely this a first draft and was posted online to get input from everyone and for the group to hammer it all out. More than likely it will be changed as input grows.
First week: "Not even happening. Occupy what? No, you're crazy."
Second week: "Okay, so it's happening, but you shouldn't care. They are just lazy hippies begging for handouts"
Third week: "They are disorganized, disobedient, and smelly. Ultimately, they hate America and despise freedom. Send in the pepper spray."
Fourth week: "Okay, so they're actually an organized terrorism force. They're a movement of sheep being controlled by strong anti-semetic tones. Didn't you hear about the terrorism plot that the USA just stopped??? Hey, listen to us! They hate Jews and.... TERRORISM TERRORISM TERRORISM!"
why so narrow minded ..., information are averywhere, only ignorant who believe that way ...
Absolutely. Fortunately, I see healthy discussions and debates (like this one) all over the place about OWS. A select few will cling to anything they see on the magic box in the living room, but it finally feels like people are waking up to the lies that are being fed to them daily on the tube.
I am grateful that this whole thing has generated such discussion, as that is what will lead to progress. Hate, fear, and ignorance only leads one way...
why so narrow minded ..., information are averywhere, only ignorant who believe that way ...
Sadly, that is A LOT of people, they don't seek information for themselves and spread misinformation all the time. People still believe Obama is a Muslim that swore in on the Qur'an and isn't a US citizen...
Sadly, that is A LOT of people, they don't seek information for themselves and spread misinformation all the time. People still believe Obama is a Muslim that swore in on the Qur'an and isn't a US citizen...
what if he was a Muslim ? so what. people should understand that Judaism, Christianity and Islam are all basically consecutive iterations of the same damn religion. there are extremists in all of them and there are terrorists in all of them.
this is an age old technique to create conflict using religion. war mongers and people who profit from such conflicts bring up issues like anti-semitism, islamic terrorists, etc. it is one way to throw off focus from real issues such as the ones discussed in this thread.
there are even Israely protesters angry over their government. those Israely protesters must be anti-semetic as well!
personally, i think religions are for people who understand very little about the world they live in and are often used as tools to control them to destroy their own world.
what if he was a Muslim ? so what. people should understand that Judaism, Christianity and Islam are all basically consecutive iterations of the same damn religion. there are extremists in all of them and there are terrorists in all of them.
this is an age old technique to create conflict using religion. war mongers and people who profit from such conflicts bring up issues like anti-semitism, islamic terrorists, etc. it is one way to throw off focus from real issues such as the ones discussed in this thread.
there are even Israely protesters angry over their government. Those Israely protesters must be anti-semetic as well!
I agree with you 100% one of my best friends is a Muslim and an amazing person. It frustrates me when people assume that a Muslim is a terrorist or something foolish like that.
The sad thing is people act like I am attacking them when I try and just tell them facts about the Muslim people and religion....it's just sad .
what if he was a Muslim ? so what. people should understand that Judaism, Christianity and Islam are all basically consecutive iterations of the same damn religion. there are extremists in all of them and there are terrorists in all of them.
this is an age old technique to create conflict using religion. war mongers and people who profit from such conflicts bring up issues like anti-semitism, islamic terrorists, etc. it is one way to throw off focus from real issues such as the ones discussed in this thread.
there are even Israely protesters angry over their government. those Israely protesters must be anti-semetic as well!
personally, i think religions are for people who understand very little about the world they live in and are often used as tools to control them to destroy their own world.
And those three religions are carbon copies of ancient Greek, Ancient Egyptian, Mesopotamian, and other ancient religions. The fact that they're so derivative of each other leads to one of two conclusions. Either all religion is a bunch of made-up, copy-cat hokey or the same deity spoke to all these prophets at different times, telling the same stories, but changed the names and prompted followers from each to consider the others as "heathens". All of the major modern religions and the ancient ones too, all are based around the cycle of the sun. It's death (winter solstice, Dec 22), and re/birth (Christmas, Dec 25) are analog to the death and resurrection of the holy child of "god" three days later. All of these religions are based around worshiping the sun. Every "son of god" was born on the same and became a teacher as a child and as an adult was followed by 12 "apostles". Hmmm 12 apostles? Well, there's 12 signs on the Zodiac.
So, the fact that people disdain, or even hate, any candidate that doesn't ascribe to their religion is just foolishness when they should be judging them based on their ability to do the best job, like they do when they interview an applicant for a job opening.
Well unfortunately the haters gonna hate. However these should be noted to help the movement better organize to keep from happening again and keep these people out of it.
Well unfortunately the haters gonna hate. However these should be noted to help the movement better organize to keep from happening again and keep these people out of it.
More stuff happening with Bank of America right now.
1) one subsidiary of BoA is FDIC backed and one is not.
2) The non-FDIC portions have racked up >50T in bad derivatives.
3) Because of the recent downgrade of BoA and an increasing need for international and European banks to call in assets, those >50T in bad derivatives are likely to be exposed soon, when their holders try to cash in.
4) In anticipation of this, BoA has transfered the >50T in bad derivatives from the non-FDIC branch to the FDIC branch.
5) Because of the way banking rules operate, when they >50T in bad derivatives goes boom, the creditors for those assets get first claim on anything of real value that BoA has, which includes ordinary investor's money. (regular savings accounts, ie, your 5,000 savings, my 10k, grannies 20k, etc)
6) As a result, once the creditors for those >50T in bad derivatives are done, FDIC will need to cover all remaining losses to the bank, because all this action has occurred in their FDIC backed subsidiary.
In case anyone wants a short form version of what the fuck went wrong:
A bank was given $1T to hold (by normal people depositing savings). They then bet $75T on all sorts of bullshit, even though they weren't supposed to (and then transfer it back to us). Our gov't has agreed that all other creditors get first dibs on the 1T holdings, then the govt will repay all initial debts (and make taxpayers foot the bill).
Meanwhile, 1-10+ people at the top have gained $10million or more per year for the past 10-20 years, with lower taxes year after year.
What the fuck. HOW THE FUCK DO THEY GET AWAY WITH THIS?! WHY THE FUCK ISN'T ANYONE DOING ANYTHING ABOUT THIS?! Why the FUCK do all those piece of shit Congressmen and Women, and Senators and fucking president not step the fuck up??
Why the HELL does almost every Republican Presidential Candidate KEEP defending these banks?? This makes me so angry I can't even explain.
The Fed is for this. The FDIC is against (for obvious reasons) but I'm still reading my favorite political forum to see if that matters at all. I think the Fed is who gets to say if it happens or not (and they will).
What the fuck. HOW THE FUCK DO THEY GET AWAY WITH THIS?! WHY THE FUCK ISN'T ANYONE DOING ANYTHING ABOUT THIS?! Why the FUCK do all those piece of shit Congressmen and Women, and Senators and fucking president not step the fuck up??
Why the HELL does almost every Republican Presidential Candidate KEEP defending these banks?? This makes me so angry I can't even explain.
The last president to go up against these people was assassinated. Look up Kennedy and executive order 1110.
Can we try to focus on a bit more concrete things? Cointelpro is one thing, but it's heavily documented as having happened. A cabal of financial elite assassinating a standing president for shadowy currency issue isn't likely enough to be a good topic for this thread. The top 1% have enough influence as it is without needing to be literal GIJoe villains.
Can we try to focus on a bit more concrete things? Cointelpro is one thing, but it's heavily documented as having happened. A cabal of financial elite assassinating a standing president for shadowy currency issue isn't likely enough to be a good topic for this thread. The top 1% have enough influence as it is without needing to be literal GIJoe villains.
I thought 1110 was a direct attempt to limit or control the Fed. It seems I was mistaken.
In any case, if you watch the video of the event, the SS agents abandon Kennedy's vehicle just before he is shot. Whoever it was and why, they got to a lot of important people to make it happen. And that's all I'm going to say about that.
Edit:
Now if you look at the history of assassinated presidents, each one was in a conflict with the power of the banks. Lincoln was trying to do the greenback, assassinated. Jackson was trying to kill the central bank, survived an assassination attempt. McKinley tried to do the same thing as Lincoln, but with hard currency. President Garfield openly declared that whoever controls the supply of currency would control the business and activities of all the people. After only four months in office, President Garfield was shot at a railroad station on July 2, 1881.
Oh, and this: "In 1963 he (Kennedy) signed Executive Orders EO-11 and EO-110, returning to the government the responsibility to print money, taking that privilege away from the Federal Reserve System." So yeah, awfully big coincidence that every president that ever tried to go up against the banks power ended up dead.
Can we try to focus on a bit more concrete things? Cointelpro is one thing, but it's heavily documented as having happened. A cabal of financial elite assassinating a standing president for shadowy currency issue isn't likely enough to be a good topic for this thread. The top 1% have enough influence as it is without needing to be literal GIJoe villains.
this why when you audit the fed and make the books public, you shed light into the ponzi scheme that it really is. when people realize that the money comes from thin air.... well, that should be a big enough wake up call.
this why when you audit the fed and make the books public, you shed light into the ponzi scheme that it really is. when people realize that the money comes from thin air.... well, that should be a big enough wake up call.
Hmmm. What do you think would happen if that actually happened? I don't think people would respond well, and I could see currency fluctuations totally destroying the entire American economy. I wonder if, for the people living through that, they might find the disease was preferable to the cure.
Hmmm. What do you think would happen if that actually happened? I don't think people would respond well, and I could see currency fluctuations totally destroying the entire American economy. I wonder if, for the people living through that, they might find the disease was preferable to the cure.
no you can have a totally sustainable economy with fiat money, it's just the manipulation of the worth of money and the deliberate inflation by this institution that is crippling us.
Really? People support Ron Paul because he's "pro weed" "antiwar" and not against anything in the news, he's not against anything because he believes they are all state issues. He wants to pretty much end all federal programs, from planned parenthood, to Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, etc. He's against gay marriage, doesn't believe in evolution, and is strongly pro-life. He's really a conservative christian just like the other republican presidential candidates.
I don't think the fact that he doesn't believe in evolution, or that he's a christian are fair reasons to disqualify him. At least he is honest about his views, beliefs, and opinions, unlike all of the other candidates that flip-flop constantly to get the most votes. He's the most honest politician I can think of.
And he doesn't want to end all federal programs, that's just not true. He is very pro personal liberty, so for example, it is the choice of anyone under the age of 26 to opt out of social security. Instead of completely cutting off people who rely on these programs, he wants to phase them out. He has also been very specific in which departments he wants to either abolish completely or bring down the budget of.
I remember watching a video of him once, and he said that our country is in a serious financial crisis, and we haven't even begun to get out of it, because one side loves wars, and one side loves entitlements, and he couldn't be more right.
Anyway, if another candidate comes along and offers a plan to actually solve our debt crisis, I'm all ears. But right now, Ron Paul is the only one who's willing to make the cuts to reach that goal.
What the fuck. HOW THE FUCK DO THEY GET AWAY WITH THIS?! WHY THE FUCK ISN'T ANYONE DOING ANYTHING ABOUT THIS?! Why the FUCK do all those piece of shit Congressmen and Women, and Senators and fucking president not step the fuck up??
Why the HELL does almost every Republican Presidential Candidate KEEP defending these banks?? This makes me so angry I can't even explain.
Allow me to introduce you to 2012 Republican presidential candidate Ron Paul:
They're entitlements because you... pay into them. Big difference between wars that kill 1,000,000 people, and create entire generations all over the world who wouldn't mind blowing us up in the future, hence creating more wars.
That wasn't his point. His point was that we need to do SOMETHING to solve the debt crisis, and neither side wants to cut anything.
That wasn't his point. His point was that we need to do SOMETHING to solve the debt crisis, and neither side wants to cut anything.
Nevertheless, Ron Paul's beliefs exhibit a severe lack of ability for rational thinking in a occupation that requires logical and rational thinking. That's a deal breaker for me. That's like making a schizophrenic lead people in quiet meditation.
More stuff happening with Bank of America right now.
1) one subsidiary of BoA is FDIC backed and one is not.
2) The non-FDIC portions have racked up >50T in bad derivatives.
3) Because of the recent downgrade of BoA and an increasing need for international and European banks to call in assets, those >50T in bad derivatives are likely to be exposed soon, when their holders try to cash in.
4) In anticipation of this, BoA has transfered the >50T in bad derivatives from the non-FDIC branch to the FDIC branch.
5) Because of the way banking rules operate, when they >50T in bad derivatives goes boom, the creditors for those assets get first claim on anything of real value that BoA has, which includes ordinary investor's money. (regular savings accounts, ie, your 5,000 savings, my 10k, grannies 20k, etc)
6) As a result, once the creditors for those >50T in bad derivatives are done, FDIC will need to cover all remaining losses to the bank, because all this action has occurred in their FDIC backed subsidiary.
In case anyone wants a short form version of what the fuck went wrong:
A bank was given $1T to hold (by normal people depositing savings). They then bet $75T on all sorts of bullshit, even though they weren't supposed to (and then transfer it back to us). Our gov't has agreed that all other creditors get first dibs on the 1T holdings, then the govt will repay all initial debts (and make taxpayers foot the bill).
Meanwhile, 1-10+ people at the top have gained $10million or more per year for the past 10-20 years, with lower taxes year after year.
Poop, do you have a good article on this I could link to?
Nevertheless, Ron Paul's beliefs exhibit a severe lack of ability for rational thinking in a occupation that requires logical and rational thinking. That's a deal breaker for me. That's like making a schizophrenic lead people in quiet meditation.
Hmmm. What do you think would happen if that actually happened? I don't think people would respond well, and I could see currency fluctuations totally destroying the entire American economy. I wonder if, for the people living through that, they might find the disease was preferable to the cure.
What gives you the idea that I'm not going to vote at all? Believe it or not, there is more than just a democrap and a republicant to choose from for president. I'll vote for the person I believe will do their job right and not because they make pretty speeches telling us exactly what we want to hear, but because the person has proven by their actions that they are the correct person for the job.
What gives you the idea that I'm not going to vote at all? Believe it or not, there is more than just a democrap and a republicant to choose from for president. I'll vote for the person I believe will do their job right and not because they make pretty speeches telling us exactly what we want to hear, but because the person has proven by their actions that they are the correct person for the job.
You said that Ron Paul's beliefs, which I assumed you were referring to his religious beliefs, makes you think he's not a rational thinker, and that it's a deal breaker for you. It's my opinion that this shouldn't matter, and if they have a sound stance on the issues, I should ignore something like that. But that's a big deal for you, as you said. And since it's pretty much impossible in this day and age to run for president as a non-Christian (look at the crap people are giving Romney for being a Mormon), let alone an Atheist, who can you possibly vote for? I just don't think that someone's religious beliefs is a good reason to discount them as a possible candidate.
Yeah, the two-party system sucks, I'm not arguing with you there, but with that "believe it or not" statement, it sounds like you are condescendingly talking down to me for voting Republican. This is my second election, and I voted for Obama in 2008, because I was an 18 year old uneducated voter. I don't care which party my chosen candidate is in. I'm not voting for Paul because he's a Republican. I'm voting for him because of all the candidates, he has the most sound and common-sense solutions to problems. His non-intervention foreign policy, his economic cuts, his wanting to fully audit the Federal Reserve, his stance on immigration, I agree with him on so many issues. If he was running as an independent I'd still vote for him.
http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3444221 thread from my favorite political forum, Debate and Discussion on SomethingAwful( you know, the comedy site that brings you photoshop fridays? yeah, the political subforum is amazing) Not sure if you have to have bought the 10 dollar membership to read this forum though.
Replies
Well, why not just raise employee wages across the board and not bother paying the top dogs so much? Perhaps a percentage cap of the company's total revenue? "No corporate employee may be paid more than 10% of company's revenue or no more than 10 times the lowest wage earner in the company, which ever is the lowest. No shareholder will hold more than 5% of the company's stock and all stock must be held by individuals. No company may own stock in another." That sounds fair and sustainable. Though IMHO, all employees of any public company should be paid an equal share of the company revenue (after fixed costs) and all employees shall have equal power over company decisions that effect all workers. But I think that's just a pipe dream that nobody would go for.
Now, what I would add to the declaration myself is to completely eliminate the Federal Reserve and nationalize the banks. Loans will be interest-free and subject to thorough credit history, asset, and income inspection prior to approval to determine ability to repay the loan and held to a high standard of eligibility. Loan amounts will also be subject to income and asset. No loan will be issued that would exceed the borrower's ability to repay. Charging interest shall be illegal and all current interest owed shall be extinguished. Administration costs will be tax funded. Defaults will be resolved with either wage garnishing or restructured payment plans based on economic need. Failing that, property will be seized (primary vehicle exempt), any government assistance will be withheld, and tax refunds will be intercepted. Federal Reserve Notes shall be replaced with US Treasury Notes and all monies will be issued only by an act of the US Treasury in accordance with economic need. All other creation of money will constitute counterfeiting and be subject to applicable laws.
Corporations should be reverted to their original form of 10 or 30 year span, no ownership of other corporations and they must serve the public good first as their charter mandates it or it shall be void and all shareholders will be vulnerable to full liability. They were given limited liability to serve the public good and so they should required to do as such.
All public universities shall be free of tuition and acceptance of enrollment shall be contingent upon review and assessment of academic aptitude and ability. Name, gender, and race will not be known to the academic reviewer, a generated alphanumerical ID shall be automatically and randomly assigned. Those that do not meet the requirements shall have the option to attend a free public vocational school to learn a trade if they still choose to pursue post-secondary education. All public and private schools will be required to provide education on money management and personal budgeting. Private schools shall be non-profit, reinvesting all revenue into the faculty, facilities, and scholarships. Anyone who chooses not to enter post-secondary education shall be enrolled, at their option, in an employment services plan to assess interests and aptitude to help job seekers find and acquire appropriate employment.
I think so far OWS has been very successful in trying to educate the uneducated about our debt, income inequality, the banks, and the Federal Reserve through newspapers talking about this, blogs, websites and forum discussions like this.
I agree. It has at least made people curious enough to search.
Yep, I agree and could get behind the entire thing. I do think they should include that the reversal of the ruling that keeps the financial regulatory body from overseeing the credit derivatives market. They should also include an increase in funding to the financial regulatory bodies, and legislation to prevent the incest that goes on between the major financial corporations and the current financial regulatory bodies.
I believe there hasn't been anything official on their main site because the working group is still hammering out the details and will pass this to the GA when they think its ready for a consensus vote.
More than likely this a first draft and was posted online to get input from everyone and for the group to hammer it all out. More than likely it will be changed as input grows.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/the-99-declaration-got-5000-hits-in-7-days-and-hun/ <-questions about it seem to pop up in their forum
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/18/occupy-wall-street-planning-convention_n_1018570.html<-Huffington post reported on it, but they aren't exactly known for their unbiased reporting and factual articles...
First week: "Not even happening. Occupy what? No, you're crazy."
Second week: "Okay, so it's happening, but you shouldn't care. They are just lazy hippies begging for handouts"
Third week: "They are disorganized, disobedient, and smelly. Ultimately, they hate America and despise freedom. Send in the pepper spray."
Fourth week: "Okay, so they're actually an organized terrorism force. They're a movement of sheep being controlled by strong anti-semetic tones. Didn't you hear about the terrorism plot that the USA just stopped??? Hey, listen to us! They hate Jews and.... TERRORISM TERRORISM TERRORISM!"
[ame="
[ame="
I wonder how week 5 will be perceived???
why so narrow minded ..., information are averywhere, only ignorant who believe that way ...
Absolutely. Fortunately, I see healthy discussions and debates (like this one) all over the place about OWS. A select few will cling to anything they see on the magic box in the living room, but it finally feels like people are waking up to the lies that are being fed to them daily on the tube.
I am grateful that this whole thing has generated such discussion, as that is what will lead to progress. Hate, fear, and ignorance only leads one way...
Sadly, that is A LOT of people, they don't seek information for themselves and spread misinformation all the time. People still believe Obama is a Muslim that swore in on the Qur'an and isn't a US citizen...
what if he was a Muslim ? so what. people should understand that Judaism, Christianity and Islam are all basically consecutive iterations of the same damn religion. there are extremists in all of them and there are terrorists in all of them.
this is an age old technique to create conflict using religion. war mongers and people who profit from such conflicts bring up issues like anti-semitism, islamic terrorists, etc. it is one way to throw off focus from real issues such as the ones discussed in this thread.
there are even Israely protesters angry over their government. those Israely protesters must be anti-semetic as well!
personally, i think religions are for people who understand very little about the world they live in and are often used as tools to control them to destroy their own world.
I agree with you 100% one of my best friends is a Muslim and an amazing person. It frustrates me when people assume that a Muslim is a terrorist or something foolish like that.
The sad thing is people act like I am attacking them when I try and just tell them facts about the Muslim people and religion....it's just sad
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/newsnight/9619110.stm
And those three religions are carbon copies of ancient Greek, Ancient Egyptian, Mesopotamian, and other ancient religions. The fact that they're so derivative of each other leads to one of two conclusions. Either all religion is a bunch of made-up, copy-cat hokey or the same deity spoke to all these prophets at different times, telling the same stories, but changed the names and prompted followers from each to consider the others as "heathens". All of the major modern religions and the ancient ones too, all are based around the cycle of the sun. It's death (winter solstice, Dec 22), and re/birth (Christmas, Dec 25) are analog to the death and resurrection of the holy child of "god" three days later. All of these religions are based around worshiping the sun. Every "son of god" was born on the same and became a teacher as a child and as an adult was followed by 12 "apostles". Hmmm 12 apostles? Well, there's 12 signs on the Zodiac.
[ame="
[ame="
[ame="
So, the fact that people disdain, or even hate, any candidate that doesn't ascribe to their religion is just foolishness when they should be judging them based on their ability to do the best job, like they do when they interview an applicant for a job opening.
Man accused of exposing self to children arrested
http://www.komonews.com/news/local/132064518.html
Occupy Cleveland Protester Alleges She Was Raped
http://cleveland.cbslocal.com/2011/10/18/occupy-cleveland-protester-alleges-she-was-raped/
The fanatics are all over these as excuses how the OWS are sickos and deviants and such.
Also fwiw
The Demographics Of Occupy Wall Street
http://www.fastcompany.com/1789018/occupy-wall-street-demographics-statistics
[ame="
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COINTELPRO
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2011/oct/19/naomi-wolf-arrest-occupy-wall-street
go back to topic ^_^
[ame="
When you can't attack the message, they attack the messenger.
!!!
Anti semitisim claim debunked by TYT
Wolf-PAC.COM
[ame="
1) one subsidiary of BoA is FDIC backed and one is not.
2) The non-FDIC portions have racked up >50T in bad derivatives.
3) Because of the recent downgrade of BoA and an increasing need for international and European banks to call in assets, those >50T in bad derivatives are likely to be exposed soon, when their holders try to cash in.
4) In anticipation of this, BoA has transfered the >50T in bad derivatives from the non-FDIC branch to the FDIC branch.
5) Because of the way banking rules operate, when they >50T in bad derivatives goes boom, the creditors for those assets get first claim on anything of real value that BoA has, which includes ordinary investor's money. (regular savings accounts, ie, your 5,000 savings, my 10k, grannies 20k, etc)
6) As a result, once the creditors for those >50T in bad derivatives are done, FDIC will need to cover all remaining losses to the bank, because all this action has occurred in their FDIC backed subsidiary.
In case anyone wants a short form version of what the fuck went wrong:
A bank was given $1T to hold (by normal people depositing savings). They then bet $75T on all sorts of bullshit, even though they weren't supposed to (and then transfer it back to us). Our gov't has agreed that all other creditors get first dibs on the 1T holdings, then the govt will repay all initial debts (and make taxpayers foot the bill).
Meanwhile, 1-10+ people at the top have gained $10million or more per year for the past 10-20 years, with lower taxes year after year.
Why the HELL does almost every Republican Presidential Candidate KEEP defending these banks?? This makes me so angry I can't even explain.
The last president to go up against these people was assassinated. Look up Kennedy and executive order 1110.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_11110#Conspiracy_theory
Can we try to focus on a bit more concrete things? Cointelpro is one thing, but it's heavily documented as having happened. A cabal of financial elite assassinating a standing president for shadowy currency issue isn't likely enough to be a good topic for this thread. The top 1% have enough influence as it is without needing to be literal GIJoe villains.
I thought 1110 was a direct attempt to limit or control the Fed. It seems I was mistaken.
In any case, if you watch the video of the event, the SS agents abandon Kennedy's vehicle just before he is shot. Whoever it was and why, they got to a lot of important people to make it happen. And that's all I'm going to say about that.
Edit:
Now if you look at the history of assassinated presidents, each one was in a conflict with the power of the banks. Lincoln was trying to do the greenback, assassinated. Jackson was trying to kill the central bank, survived an assassination attempt. McKinley tried to do the same thing as Lincoln, but with hard currency. President Garfield openly declared that whoever controls the supply of currency would control the business and activities of all the people. After only four months in office, President Garfield was shot at a railroad station on July 2, 1881.
Oh, and this: "In 1963 he (Kennedy) signed Executive Orders EO-11 and EO-110, returning to the government the responsibility to print money, taking that privilege away from the Federal Reserve System." So yeah, awfully big coincidence that every president that ever tried to go up against the banks power ended up dead.
this why when you audit the fed and make the books public, you shed light into the ponzi scheme that it really is. when people realize that the money comes from thin air.... well, that should be a big enough wake up call.
Hmmm. What do you think would happen if that actually happened? I don't think people would respond well, and I could see currency fluctuations totally destroying the entire American economy. I wonder if, for the people living through that, they might find the disease was preferable to the cure.
no you can have a totally sustainable economy with fiat money, it's just the manipulation of the worth of money and the deliberate inflation by this institution that is crippling us.
I don't think the fact that he doesn't believe in evolution, or that he's a christian are fair reasons to disqualify him. At least he is honest about his views, beliefs, and opinions, unlike all of the other candidates that flip-flop constantly to get the most votes. He's the most honest politician I can think of.
And he doesn't want to end all federal programs, that's just not true. He is very pro personal liberty, so for example, it is the choice of anyone under the age of 26 to opt out of social security. Instead of completely cutting off people who rely on these programs, he wants to phase them out. He has also been very specific in which departments he wants to either abolish completely or bring down the budget of.
I remember watching a video of him once, and he said that our country is in a serious financial crisis, and we haven't even begun to get out of it, because one side loves wars, and one side loves entitlements, and he couldn't be more right.
Here's the video:
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Anyway, if another candidate comes along and offers a plan to actually solve our debt crisis, I'm all ears. But right now, Ron Paul is the only one who's willing to make the cuts to reach that goal.
Allow me to introduce you to 2012 Republican presidential candidate Ron Paul:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htF0LaaU4FY&feature=player_embedded#t=349s
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That wasn't his point. His point was that we need to do SOMETHING to solve the debt crisis, and neither side wants to cut anything.
Nevertheless, Ron Paul's beliefs exhibit a severe lack of ability for rational thinking in a occupation that requires logical and rational thinking. That's a deal breaker for me. That's like making a schizophrenic lead people in quiet meditation.
Poop, do you have a good article on this I could link to?
So you're not going to vote at all?
Bitcoin
http://bitcoin.org/
What gives you the idea that I'm not going to vote at all? Believe it or not, there is more than just a democrap and a republicant to choose from for president. I'll vote for the person I believe will do their job right and not because they make pretty speeches telling us exactly what we want to hear, but because the person has proven by their actions that they are the correct person for the job.
You said that Ron Paul's beliefs, which I assumed you were referring to his religious beliefs, makes you think he's not a rational thinker, and that it's a deal breaker for you. It's my opinion that this shouldn't matter, and if they have a sound stance on the issues, I should ignore something like that. But that's a big deal for you, as you said. And since it's pretty much impossible in this day and age to run for president as a non-Christian (look at the crap people are giving Romney for being a Mormon), let alone an Atheist, who can you possibly vote for? I just don't think that someone's religious beliefs is a good reason to discount them as a possible candidate.
Yeah, the two-party system sucks, I'm not arguing with you there, but with that "believe it or not" statement, it sounds like you are condescendingly talking down to me for voting Republican. This is my second election, and I voted for Obama in 2008, because I was an 18 year old uneducated voter. I don't care which party my chosen candidate is in. I'm not voting for Paul because he's a Republican. I'm voting for him because of all the candidates, he has the most sound and common-sense solutions to problems. His non-intervention foreign policy, his economic cuts, his wanting to fully audit the Federal Reserve, his stance on immigration, I agree with him on so many issues. If he was running as an independent I'd still vote for him.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-10-18/bofa-said-to-split-regulators-over-moving-merrill-derivatives-to-bank-unit.html article
http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3444221 thread from my favorite political forum, Debate and Discussion on SomethingAwful( you know, the comedy site that brings you photoshop fridays? yeah, the political subforum is amazing) Not sure if you have to have bought the 10 dollar membership to read this forum though.