that chris norpchen is a genius actually, watching this film, anyone from "the outside" (so to speak, no pun intended at all) SHOULD run away screaming when they even hear the word 3D industry MENTIONED, let alone what they would do should they actually get a job offer for said industry.
and then the irony is that most of the guys on forums and the likes are desperately trying to get a job in it. for some reason that classic music starts playing in my head right about now.
@Mane Hey, well you can always go back to flipping burgers, y'a know
But on a serious note, no single job in the world is easy unless you're some fat corporate prick - even then, you're gonna have to move your arse from time to time which I imagine isn't a walk in the park either.
I'm not planning on marrying and especially having kids anytime soon because of what field I've gotten into. And that's fine with me, for the time being at least.
I've been turned off from VFX for a long while, because of stories like this. : O
+1. I have a number of FaceBook friends who are in the industry, admittedly some QA, but a few artists and their status usually consists of 'Working all weekend again', or '10 o clock and I just got home'. One guy started on 11 hour days in his first week. Some even post that stuff in a positive manner, it's like they've been brainwashed or something.
We're talking known studios here too not little indie startups.
From what I've read, some of the vets manage to balance a pretty healthy work/home life ratio (because they've got the nuts/experience to stand up to stupid demands?), but some of the new guys are working like slaves and seem to justify it because they love it so much... I guess it's a personal thing, if you don't have a girl to come home to, kids to look after, or if you are just obsessed with your job, then it's manageable.
I quit trying to get into the industry about a year ago, refocused my interests and never looked back. Interestingly I'm earning more than I would be in the games industry, and I still get to do a 'creative' job, and get home in time for dinner with my partner. I also find myself enjoying gaming more than I did because I'm just playing the damn game rather than looking at every last prop thinking 'oooh that looks pretty, I wonder how they got such a clean bake on that'.
I also know of a guy from my local college who worked in the industry for about 15 years, back in the early 2000's , and he quit when he got a wife and kids and became a teacher on a game dev course, he also has never looked back.
Any 3D I do now is just for fun, and my art has improved too when there's no 'goal' so to speak.
*Cue industry grunts defending their 14 hour days because 'they love their job'.*
+1. I have a number of FaceBook friends who are in the industry, admittedly some QA, but a few artists and their status usually consists of 'Working all weekend again', or '10 o clock and I just got home'. One guy started on 11 hour days in his first week. Some even post that stuff in a positive manner, it's like they've been brainwashed or something.
We're talking known studios here too not little indie startups.
From what I've read, some of the vets manage to balance a pretty healthy work/home life ratio (because they've got the nuts/experience to stand up to stupid demands?), but some of the new guys are working like slaves and seem to justify it because they love it so much... I guess it's a personal thing, if you don't have a girl to come home to, kids to look after, or if you are just obsessed with your job, then it's manageable.
I quit trying to get into the industry about a year ago, refocused my interests and never looked back. Interestingly I'm earning more than I would be in the games industry, and I still get to do a 'creative' job, and get home in time for dinner with my partner. I also find myself enjoying gaming more than I did because I'm just playing the damn game rather than looking at every last prop thinking 'oooh that looks pretty, I wonder how they got such a clean bake on that'.
I also know of a guy from my local college who worked in the industry for about 15 years, back in the early 2000's , and he quit when he got a wife and kids and became a teacher on a game dev course, he also has never looked back.
Any 3D I do now is just for fun, and my art has improved too when there's no 'goal' so to speak.
*Cue industry grunts defending their 14 hour days because 'they love their job'.*
I'm defending my imaginary 3d-job because I love doing more work than humanly possible!
With that said I'm so curious of getting a job in the industry to get some perspective of how fun 3D is compared to flipping burgers. Might not be the best motivation to work in the "industry" but I value perspective and insight very high.
*Cue industry grunts defending their 14 hour days because 'they love their job'.*
Hehe, well there is no defending stuff like the LA Noire nightmare but speaking for myself I think that coming together for a 2-3 month crunch to finish a title and then see it hit the street to raving reviews is a pretty awesome feeling.
+1. I have a number of FaceBook friends who are in the industry, admittedly some QA, but a few artists and their status usually consists of 'Working all weekend again', or '10 o clock and I just got home'. One guy started on 11 hour days in his first week. Some even post that stuff in a positive manner, it's like they've been brainwashed or something.
:shrug: I do this now anyway. (as I post from work on what should be a day off.. go go terminations for extra hours) I'd rather be spending the time painting and sculpting.
My first real gig in the industry was like that no joke, i started to stand up a little bit but due to the state of the industry 500 people wanted my job,
Honestly, any industry will have it's downsides, along with long hours.
My brother is getting his PHD at Penn State, his day, including studying, teaching classes, research, etc. can push 12/13 hours easily. He doesn't love his chosen field, so he wakes up at 4am to work on music for a few hours. (http://markarians.bandcamp.com/album/ten-means-heaven)
Another brother is in the NFL. Obviously his pay is quite good, but again, he doesn't love it (he's a starcraft addict, actually). And as far as hours go, (when the NFL isn't on lockout) it's *extremely* taxing physical labor from morning to night. When they're not practicing, they're working out, and when they're not working out, they're calculating their protein intake. Because of away games, he would be away from his family for weeks at a time.
A few friends of mine are in Law school. Same story as my brother, they're in the library 13 hours a day, spending time away from their families on something they really don't love.
I have even more friends that do sales. They put in more hours than anyone else I know, and they hate their jobs more than anyone else I know.
My Dad played pro baseball for the Braves in the 80's. Again, the pay is obviously good, but I remember getting postcards from him when he would be gone for over a month at a time. We had a couple nannies that took care of us when my Mom would go on the road with him.
Now we get to me....Out of school I got my first job at Blizzard. I'm married and have a 3 year old son. Work is normal hours, and i spend plenty of time with my family. Now I know Blizzard might be a special case (I don't really know, since I haven't had a full time job anywhere else), but I have enough friends in the industry that are quite happy with their compensation and required working hours. Even my friends that crunch every day are happy and spend more time with their family than my business/law school friends.
I'm not saying the industry is perfect for everyone, and I'm sure it could get better in a lot of areas, but I do what I love to do, and that makes the biggest difference.
My brother is getting his PHD at Penn State... Another brother is in the NFL... My Dad played pro baseball for the Braves in the 80's... Out of school I got my first job at Blizzard.
I think a movie needs to be made about your family Murph, that's some cumulative Hollywood level success right there.
This thread may be helpful, I created it several months ago asking about general working conditions. The vast majority reported they worked about 40-50 hours a week.
My first real gig in the industry was like that no joke
Same here actually. I was working in commercials and sometimes this happened during crunch time. Ass-kissing producers, clients that didn't know much about vfx and kept asking for really silly changes, late hours without pay and a harsh supervisor. Since I was in commercials there were more deadlines than film. There were good times too though
At my current job they don't have crunch. At my previous job the crunches didn't happen often and the times they did happen(maybe once every 1-2 years) it wasn't that bad.
You shouldn't be scared of these kind of stories. They do happen but think of it like finding a mate. You will have to go through several different bad ones until you find a good one... (Or you'll find a good one immediately... Or maybe you'll get a good one and it dumps you... But that's life I guess )
I cannot see why everything has to be a problem.
You get so much fun out of a job like this, but when you are "expected" to get things done and maybe stay an hour or two longer to wrap it up, it becomes a big problem?
You guys act like a whole project is a constant 60 hour week crunch.
There are very few jobs where you go home when the horn sounds.
Are you so desperate to rush home so you can watch tv?
Be a man and stop complaining.
Be greatful you are not breaking your back laying pavements and cleaning up after someone else.
That had me in stitches. "The kids and I miss you" and the client on his scooter thing hah! Then when he freaks out at the work shown to him. The tear when he got the coffee. All so true
I cannot see why everything has to be a problem.
You get so much fun out of a job like this, but when you are "expected" to get things done and maybe stay an hour or two longer to wrap it up, it becomes a big problem?
You guys act like a whole project is a constant 60 hour week crunch.
There are very few jobs where you go home when the horn sounds.
Are you so desperate to rush home so you can watch tv?
Be a man and stop complaining.
Be greatful you are not breaking your back laying pavements and cleaning up after someone else.
I think you should be careful with that mentality. When you imply people are desperate to rush home to watch TV you're forgetting people have lives, wives, girlfriends, kids, etc...also what's wrong with watching TV?
Also it's insulting for you to imply that someone who must leave at a certain time isn't a "man".
Why are you comparing fun and staying late? If someone is into what they're doing and they're completely motivated to put in extra hours to get something done then whatever, but just because someone enjoys their job doesn't mean they should be expected to stay extra hours at work. I'm not saying projects don't require some sort of "push" sometimes but the attitude of "you love this, you should stay late!" gets abused a lot.
You bring up people "act" like whole projects are 60 work week crunch, there's not much "acting" to it for some people on these boards.
Feel free to compare people in our industry to someone breaking their back or whatever but it also takes a lot of skill and training to do what we do.
I cannot see why everything has to be a problem.
You get so much fun out of a job like this, but when you are "expected" to get things done and maybe stay an hour or two longer to wrap it up, it becomes a big problem?
You guys act like a whole project is a constant 60 hour week crunch.
There are very few jobs where you go home when the horn sounds.
Are you so desperate to rush home so you can watch tv?
Be a man and stop complaining.
Be greatful you are not breaking your back laying pavements and cleaning up after someone else.
You guys act like a whole project is a constant 60 hour week crunch.
There are very few jobs where you go home when the horn sounds.
Some people crunch for months...years even. I've had a nice 9-10 month crunch period myself before with regular 60-80 hour work weeks at my old job.
When I said that this is exactly like my job, its not because I'm crying about working extra hours...its because I deal with clients that do the same shit, bosses that do the same shit...and when its time to work late my desk is littered with energy drinks and whatnot. I find it funny as I can relate to so much here.
Thats one of my favorit short movies about the industry, since it is of course exaggerated but there is a lot of insight into it.
And while i would not defend all decisions being reasonable i still like working long hours as long as it is not a "must" and my overtime is payed !
My record is a 90 hour week which was only once in a while but then my paycheck was pretty much more than doubled so no need to complain
Make sure your company is cool if you decide to give them a lot of your time and talent and get payed for what you do.
That sounds simple but it is not .. damn, a cup of coffee will not be enough :poly124:
And we call those client comments "pixel-fuckers' and yes they do exist ( "if i zoom in, stabilize, gamma up +4 and then check the motion blur pass for two frames it is jittering on those 3 pixels !")
WHY THE HELL ARE THEY ONLY HIRING 1 3D ARTIST FOR A MULTIPLE MAN JOB? People like this is why getting into the industry is so hard and those that get in makes life hard T^T
Granted im sure this is very very big exaggeration, but yeah, just blows off a few whistles =3=
There's a difference between wrapping something up because YOU chose to be there and take the initiative, vs getting caught up in a shitstorm unrealistic schedule for a project demanding 14~16 hour days so your studio can actually make a tiny bit of money on the project they underbid on so they can get it out the door on time. **phew!!**. And it's not just this one music video, it's the next, and the next and the next. Your boss see's that it's "kinda working and they get it done, so if it ain't broke...". VFX is a crazy industry.
WHY THE HELL ARE THEY ONLY HIRING 1 3D ARTIST FOR A MULTIPLE MAN JOB? People like this is why getting into the industry is so hard and those that get in makes life hard T^T
Granted im sure this is very very big exaggeration, but yeah, just blows off a few whistles =3=
Game industry is about business. If they hire 1 very productive artist who can make the job of 3-5 person, it will cost less to the company to pay him, since he can do a lot of stuff for a cheap price. And yeah, it's really sad for people who try t break in the industry so hardly.
Game industry is about business. If they hire 1 very productive artist who can make the job of 3-5 person, it will cost less to the company to pay him, since he can do a lot of stuff for a cheap price. And yeah, it's really sad for people who try t break in the industry so hardly.
Sure, one guy burning 60-80 hours a week might be able to do the work of 3-5 people and it might save the company money, but should they be doing that? I guess they can get away with it as long as they keep getting a new sucker with the same skills as the last one to do the same job for the same pay. If they keep burning people out and have a revolving door of VFX artists, they'll eventually use up the supply of skilled people and have to hire a dozen rookies to do the same job when they could have hired what they really needed and held on to those really skilled artists without burning them out. But we all should know by now that businesses don't look at the long term issues. They're only interested in the short term gains.
Oh damn. Jordan comin at rens' neck like that!
Anyway after reading the first few posts it made people change their mind, and now people are fighting, so I'm not watching that video. I'm gonna keep going towards my goal.
When I use to work at a production company digitizing tapes so that they could get to the editors on time I recall having lovely shifts that went from 5pm-1am then 8am-5pm the next day. At some points I just worked the whole way through and did double shifts.
And not to mention the unexpected drop-ins which added a couple more hours of work. 18-20 hour shifts. But those where only a couple of days in the week when more things where coming in than where going out. I kind of miss that drive
I'm not planning on marrying and especially having kids anytime soon because of what field I've gotten into. And that's fine with me, for the time being at least.
An industry that has you by the balls, both figuratively and literally. :thumbup:
There are very few jobs where you go home when the horn sounds.
This is true but it doesn't make it right. Although it might make you a feel better knowing you're not the only one.
Forced overtime, bullying people into "voluntary" overtime or actually including overtime in your project plan right from the start are just exploitation. The same kind people fought 150 years ago when they demanded to do away with 12 hour work days and get 1 day of weekend.... and it's good they didn't just swallow it and tried to be "men" or else we'd work a lot more nowadays!
Better this than having a job that doesn't have you by the balls but you're hating every second of it.
You can have it both ways ya know, I know plenty of people who love their job but still only work 40-45 hours a week.
In fact, this sounds like the kind of mentality that lets employers carry on like this: 'I just worked five 70 hour weeks in a row but it's totally fine because I love my job and I work in the games industry'.
1/2 you rookies give your 2 cents about how you should work hard and screw going home and your reward for hard work is more work.
That mentality will easily send you to the grave and with your right(or left) hand for a girlfriend/boyfriend.
And on the other extreme, some people come in here tossing there "success stories" how they pooped and got a awesome job. But are obviously that they are of some ungodly creature talent and they oblivious to it.But love to make a point that "its possible"
and then We recycle that feedback To catagory A Rookies who mix that up for work hard which means work 10 billion hours.
lol
you guys so silly yo
Anyway joking asside yeah I had a job like this a long time ago. It was my first job to..was seriously abused and worked long hours, looked like I just had sex with a 300 pound gorilla every night I was so banged up.
Then I got a few other jobs over the years, alot of ups and down. But I dont think anything will compare to that first jobs level of BS.
All the other jobs I had were respectful enough to know , when your at work you come to work, and when you go home your no longer at work.
While it was encourage to stay late and work hard, it was NEVER required...and usually the guys that did stay late, yeah they may have been into it and wanted to do that.
But honestly I'll trade my normal hours doing something I like, and then going out and enjoying my life before I end up some weird smelly dude who hasnt gone home in 3 days and looks like some sort gelatinus blob of a pedorapist thing.
lol. I worked at a place that did some roto for a time. They kept asking me if I knew any After effects. I lied and said I didn't, even though I think it was simple lasso tool stuff. So glad I didnt get roped into doing that. The other guys were on it for months and they didn't enjoy it a single bit.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPflLGEHUAI[/ame]
Replies
and then the irony is that most of the guys on forums and the likes are desperately trying to get a job in it. for some reason that classic music starts playing in my head right about now.
But on a serious note, no single job in the world is easy unless you're some fat corporate prick - even then, you're gonna have to move your arse from time to time which I imagine isn't a walk in the park either.
I'm not planning on marrying and especially having kids anytime soon because of what field I've gotten into. And that's fine with me, for the time being at least.
+1. I have a number of FaceBook friends who are in the industry, admittedly some QA, but a few artists and their status usually consists of 'Working all weekend again', or '10 o clock and I just got home'. One guy started on 11 hour days in his first week. Some even post that stuff in a positive manner, it's like they've been brainwashed or something.
We're talking known studios here too not little indie startups.
From what I've read, some of the vets manage to balance a pretty healthy work/home life ratio (because they've got the nuts/experience to stand up to stupid demands?), but some of the new guys are working like slaves and seem to justify it because they love it so much... I guess it's a personal thing, if you don't have a girl to come home to, kids to look after, or if you are just obsessed with your job, then it's manageable.
I quit trying to get into the industry about a year ago, refocused my interests and never looked back. Interestingly I'm earning more than I would be in the games industry, and I still get to do a 'creative' job, and get home in time for dinner with my partner. I also find myself enjoying gaming more than I did because I'm just playing the damn game rather than looking at every last prop thinking 'oooh that looks pretty, I wonder how they got such a clean bake on that'.
I also know of a guy from my local college who worked in the industry for about 15 years, back in the early 2000's , and he quit when he got a wife and kids and became a teacher on a game dev course, he also has never looked back.
Any 3D I do now is just for fun, and my art has improved too when there's no 'goal' so to speak.
*Cue industry grunts defending their 14 hour days because 'they love their job'.*
I'm defending my imaginary 3d-job because I love doing more work than humanly possible!
With that said I'm so curious of getting a job in the industry to get some perspective of how fun 3D is compared to flipping burgers. Might not be the best motivation to work in the "industry" but I value perspective and insight very high.
Hehe, well there is no defending stuff like the LA Noire nightmare but speaking for myself I think that coming together for a 2-3 month crunch to finish a title and then see it hit the street to raving reviews is a pretty awesome feeling.
But im kind of nuts anyway so what do i know
And it's called a job for a reason. Loving what you do makes it easier to swallow.
:shrug: I do this now anyway. (as I post from work on what should be a day off.. go go terminations for extra hours) I'd rather be spending the time painting and sculpting.
I got canned!
Dont know if i want another job...
I never have to work late
My brother is getting his PHD at Penn State, his day, including studying, teaching classes, research, etc. can push 12/13 hours easily. He doesn't love his chosen field, so he wakes up at 4am to work on music for a few hours. (http://markarians.bandcamp.com/album/ten-means-heaven)
Another brother is in the NFL. Obviously his pay is quite good, but again, he doesn't love it (he's a starcraft addict, actually). And as far as hours go, (when the NFL isn't on lockout) it's *extremely* taxing physical labor from morning to night. When they're not practicing, they're working out, and when they're not working out, they're calculating their protein intake. Because of away games, he would be away from his family for weeks at a time.
A few friends of mine are in Law school. Same story as my brother, they're in the library 13 hours a day, spending time away from their families on something they really don't love.
I have even more friends that do sales. They put in more hours than anyone else I know, and they hate their jobs more than anyone else I know.
My Dad played pro baseball for the Braves in the 80's. Again, the pay is obviously good, but I remember getting postcards from him when he would be gone for over a month at a time. We had a couple nannies that took care of us when my Mom would go on the road with him.
Now we get to me....Out of school I got my first job at Blizzard. I'm married and have a 3 year old son. Work is normal hours, and i spend plenty of time with my family. Now I know Blizzard might be a special case (I don't really know, since I haven't had a full time job anywhere else), but I have enough friends in the industry that are quite happy with their compensation and required working hours. Even my friends that crunch every day are happy and spend more time with their family than my business/law school friends.
I'm not saying the industry is perfect for everyone, and I'm sure it could get better in a lot of areas, but I do what I love to do, and that makes the biggest difference.
I think a movie needs to be made about your family Murph, that's some cumulative Hollywood level success right there.
If anyone wants to contribute more to this thread please feel free.
http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=83409
At my current job they don't have crunch. At my previous job the crunches didn't happen often and the times they did happen(maybe once every 1-2 years) it wasn't that bad.
You shouldn't be scared of these kind of stories. They do happen but think of it like finding a mate. You will have to go through several different bad ones until you find a good one... (Or you'll find a good one immediately... Or maybe you'll get a good one and it dumps you... But that's life I guess )
You get so much fun out of a job like this, but when you are "expected" to get things done and maybe stay an hour or two longer to wrap it up, it becomes a big problem?
You guys act like a whole project is a constant 60 hour week crunch.
There are very few jobs where you go home when the horn sounds.
Are you so desperate to rush home so you can watch tv?
Be a man and stop complaining.
Be greatful you are not breaking your back laying pavements and cleaning up after someone else.
Also he wins for the Faye statue.
I think you should be careful with that mentality. When you imply people are desperate to rush home to watch TV you're forgetting people have lives, wives, girlfriends, kids, etc...also what's wrong with watching TV?
Also it's insulting for you to imply that someone who must leave at a certain time isn't a "man".
Why are you comparing fun and staying late? If someone is into what they're doing and they're completely motivated to put in extra hours to get something done then whatever, but just because someone enjoys their job doesn't mean they should be expected to stay extra hours at work. I'm not saying projects don't require some sort of "push" sometimes but the attitude of "you love this, you should stay late!" gets abused a lot.
You bring up people "act" like whole projects are 60 work week crunch, there's not much "acting" to it for some people on these boards.
Feel free to compare people in our industry to someone breaking their back or whatever but it also takes a lot of skill and training to do what we do.
Some people crunch for months...years even. I've had a nice 9-10 month crunch period myself before with regular 60-80 hour work weeks at my old job.
When I said that this is exactly like my job, its not because I'm crying about working extra hours...its because I deal with clients that do the same shit, bosses that do the same shit...and when its time to work late my desk is littered with energy drinks and whatnot. I find it funny as I can relate to so much here.
And while i would not defend all decisions being reasonable i still like working long hours as long as it is not a "must" and my overtime is payed !
My record is a 90 hour week which was only once in a while but then my paycheck was pretty much more than doubled so no need to complain
Make sure your company is cool if you decide to give them a lot of your time and talent and get payed for what you do.
That sounds simple but it is not .. damn, a cup of coffee will not be enough :poly124:
And we call those client comments "pixel-fuckers' and yes they do exist ( "if i zoom in, stabilize, gamma up +4 and then check the motion blur pass for two frames it is jittering on those 3 pixels !")
Granted im sure this is very very big exaggeration, but yeah, just blows off a few whistles =3=
But hey, we all know what we signed on for.
Game industry is about business. If they hire 1 very productive artist who can make the job of 3-5 person, it will cost less to the company to pay him, since he can do a lot of stuff for a cheap price. And yeah, it's really sad for people who try t break in the industry so hardly.
Waitwaitwait... Don't wanna derail the thread, but your dad is Dale Murphy?
Sure, one guy burning 60-80 hours a week might be able to do the work of 3-5 people and it might save the company money, but should they be doing that? I guess they can get away with it as long as they keep getting a new sucker with the same skills as the last one to do the same job for the same pay. If they keep burning people out and have a revolving door of VFX artists, they'll eventually use up the supply of skilled people and have to hire a dozen rookies to do the same job when they could have hired what they really needed and held on to those really skilled artists without burning them out. But we all should know by now that businesses don't look at the long term issues. They're only interested in the short term gains.
Anyway after reading the first few posts it made people change their mind, and now people are fighting, so I'm not watching that video. I'm gonna keep going towards my goal.
And not to mention the unexpected drop-ins which added a couple more hours of work. 18-20 hour shifts. But those where only a couple of days in the week when more things where coming in than where going out. I kind of miss that drive
An industry that has you by the balls, both figuratively and literally. :thumbup:
This is true but it doesn't make it right. Although it might make you a feel better knowing you're not the only one.
Forced overtime, bullying people into "voluntary" overtime or actually including overtime in your project plan right from the start are just exploitation. The same kind people fought 150 years ago when they demanded to do away with 12 hour work days and get 1 day of weekend.... and it's good they didn't just swallow it and tried to be "men" or else we'd work a lot more nowadays!
Better this than having a job that doesn't have you by the balls but you're hating every second of it.
agreed, without a doubt
You can have it both ways ya know, I know plenty of people who love their job but still only work 40-45 hours a week.
In fact, this sounds like the kind of mentality that lets employers carry on like this: 'I just worked five 70 hour weeks in a row but it's totally fine because I love my job and I work in the games industry'.
hahahh. yeah
1/2 you rookies give your 2 cents about how you should work hard and screw going home and your reward for hard work is more work.
That mentality will easily send you to the grave and with your right(or left) hand for a girlfriend/boyfriend.
And on the other extreme, some people come in here tossing there "success stories" how they pooped and got a awesome job. But are obviously that they are of some ungodly creature talent and they oblivious to it.But love to make a point that "its possible"
and then We recycle that feedback To catagory A Rookies who mix that up for work hard which means work 10 billion hours.
lol
you guys so silly yo
Anyway joking asside yeah I had a job like this a long time ago. It was my first job to..was seriously abused and worked long hours, looked like I just had sex with a 300 pound gorilla every night I was so banged up.
Then I got a few other jobs over the years, alot of ups and down. But I dont think anything will compare to that first jobs level of BS.
All the other jobs I had were respectful enough to know , when your at work you come to work, and when you go home your no longer at work.
While it was encourage to stay late and work hard, it was NEVER required...and usually the guys that did stay late, yeah they may have been into it and wanted to do that.
But honestly I'll trade my normal hours doing something I like, and then going out and enjoying my life before I end up some weird smelly dude who hasnt gone home in 3 days and looks like some sort gelatinus blob of a pedorapist thing.
Well just my 2 cents
I tend to phrase things in a way that it falls wrong every time.
I guess it was a bit over the top, my bad.