Are standing desks better?
polycounter lvl 17
Lately I've realized my posture is complete shit, several coworkers recently made the switch standing desks (or adjustable height desks) and swear up and down that they will never go back to sitting at desks. There's also this recent article I saw;
http://artofmanliness.com/2011/07/05/become-a-stand-up-guy-the-history-benefits-and-use-of-standing-desks/
Have you checked out standing desks? What's you're opinion on them? Comments? Naysayers?
http://artofmanliness.com/2011/07/05/become-a-stand-up-guy-the-history-benefits-and-use-of-standing-desks/
Have you checked out standing desks? What's you're opinion on them? Comments? Naysayers?
Replies
But boy do I crave one. This is something that's been on my mind for a long time now, when I'm able my primary workstation will be a standing desk/table. It's not for my back, though my posture is atrocious, it's for my brain.
Now, about standing desks I must say I'm intrigued and wouldn't mind trying one at work.
It's a shame that the great ortho chairs cost so damn much. Sitting straight-back is NOT good for you, regardless of what people might blab on about. The ideal angle for sitting at a work desk is 135º - herman millers support that perfectly but like I said, they're $$$
For example:
http://www.desktopped.com/featured/2010/05/sleek-wall-mounted-workstation-with-custom-built-desk/
http://www.desktopped.com/featured/2009/11/imac-custom-computer-desk/
http://www.desktopped.com/featured/2011/02/unique-custom-built-imac-desk-and-workspace/
This way, you can customize the desk to your needs without paying through the nose for a highly specialized and expensive desk.
Im sure that lying down on a sofa from time to time would be a good thing too (to answer emails on a laptop, or sketch) since variety is what the body needs ...
Stools can be nice to have too.
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[ame]
+1
To add to this lineup, a variant on Pior's sofa comment, sometimes I would love nothing more than to be arting whilst looking like im jacked into the Nebuchadnezzar.
Monitor up high and angled perfectly toward me as im arting - though it wont work with a cintique.....add a pressurised room and i could probably get deep vein thrombosis. Rad.
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/5488_120982202922_718782922_2485834_3549096_n.jpg
I got upgraded once on a flight from hong kong to London and was in this position, watching movies for about 8 hours of the flight its fuckin awesome
Now I'm starting to worry about having blood clots appearing on my left shin after excessive sitting. Not having anything serious nor there is any proper symptoms indicating it, but I'll be definitely switching to a standing desk as a complete lifestyle change if I can half my day to 50/50 -> standing at work/sitting at home, ASAP. The good thing is that I have an opportunity to have a standing dest at my work during my internship. Starting from tomorrow morning. Can't wait see how it feels like. (;
EDIT: The Global Game Jam weekend wasn't doing any good for me. At there I started to feel pain on my left leg. Just because I was working with my team so intensively through the whole weekend with a minimal amount of sleep or proper breaks. After that I became very sceptic about my future in the game industry.
On the subject of standing desks I do have a 2nd desk which I got for standing I have worked on before but never could get used to standing and working for very long but for general health with reasonable productivity I took off the handlebars off a workout stationary bike of mine and mounted a plank of wood where the handlebars are, and will occasionally pedal while I work which seems to go well enough together.
I dunno if personal experience accounts for much but some of the worst trouble I have had with my back was with jobs that involved standing all day.
But seriously, now I'm at work and having a standing desk. Feels good so far. I even have a mattress that conforms the bottom of my feet (expensive one, specifically designed for this purpose).
As for posture, I'm sure investing into a decent chair will suffice although I can imagine maintaining it standing is a bit easier. Still think standing desks are overrated especially if you are thinking about avoiding blood clotting. Get a treadmill instead!
Going to the gym, stretching, and focusing on core exercises have had the best results in terms of comfort and posture even while sitting for 12+ hours a day.
In my opinion movement is the key to deal with minor problems with venous reflux (and not cutting of the bloodflow by either the edge of the chair or bending your knees too much.) I bought a plastic air cushion that's originally meant to sit on and put it under my feet when sitting. Keeps me moving my feet most of the time without having to think about it.
I had also bought some light compression stockings (rock'n' roooooll!!) for when my legs got heavy and I needed to continue to work but haven't used them in quite some time, now.
If your goal is to do what humans are supposed to do naturally, mix actual cardio into your daily routine.
- Get off a few stops early and walk the rest of the way. (As far as you feasibly have time for.)
- Always walk someplace to buy/eat lunch.
- Spread your errands across multiple trips throughout the week.
- Take the long route to get coffee in the break room.
- Use the stairs.
- Clean your living space twice a week.
- Yard work.
- Don't use remotes.
Basically do away modern conveniences that allow you to be sedentary. The great thing about this approach is that you don't even need to set aside time for a workout. Studies of "Blue zones" suggest this is far more healthy than lumping your entire workout into a single unit of time. Your ancestors moved around a lot out of necessity. They wouldn't have stood anywhere for long because it's a waste of calories.Diet is a huge factor as well. (Eat less sugar.)
Also, the supposed benefits of standing are very short term.
Its great cause you can program in 4 different heights .When you want to stand you hit the preset and it raises to the correct height. Its a little pricey but I love it. The other thing is its heavy with the base weighing 65 pounds and the top also weighing 65 pounds. When up in the standing position I dont get any wobble though.
The first two are remedied with an embarrasingly easy solution:
Sit down after a while.
And I can attest that not sitting all day *does* improve mobility and joint pains. Not 'chronic joint diseases', for --again-- pretty self-explanatory reasons.
None of the other things you mention matter. You can still use the stairs or mind your sugar-intake with a standing desk.
The reason to get it was that I suffered from pains in the lower back which increased after long periods of heavy PC use.
The good: Back pain is largely a thing of the past. I don't usually have to worry about it anymore. I'm pretty sure I owe that to the standing desk.
The bad: Occasional pains in feet, legs and hips (they do go away again, though.) I also started to have chronic anemia a while after I began working standing up, not sure how much that has to do with working posture though. I do believe that standing up for hours is very taxing for the body. I do have a high stool that I can sit on whenever I get tired. The first two months were a hell of pain in the feet and legs, the body apparently adjusted after that.
I do think standing desks have merit, but you know, standing still for hours isn't exactly normal either. Moving around doing mostly light bodily work (house, yard etc) with periods of sitting or standing in between is probably the natural state of humans. A standing desk alone isn't gonna get us there.
Judging from a youtube video about him I saw, Linus Torvalds has a treadmill as well as a standing desk. That might be a better solution. That, and an alternative sit-down workplace (though not everyone can afford two dev PCs) and a reasonable work schedule with enough pauses.
Plus most of what equanim said, except I don't think standing desks are a waste of time. They have their place in the grander scheme of things.
I'm now doing things like drawing, writing etc sitting down, away from the PC. I also got a tablet computer but that brought its own problems, such as stiff arms, neck and shoulders and a tendency to overuse the damn thing.
The ideal industry workplace hasn't been created yet. And I believe we're only beginning to see the long term negative health effects of heavy PC or workstation use. In game dev, unfortunately, it seems like that's an occupational hazard.
Working overtime or going workaholic on a PC workplace likely increases that hazard.
BTW I've heard from my father that standing desks were provided for people with back problems in the office environment in Germany already in the 1970s / 1980s. Perhaps an interesting tidbit of info. Standing desk as a remedy for back problems mostly confirmed, I think. Just watch out for possible new problems.
Stranding desks have gotten trendy recently because a study suggested sitting all day vastly increases the likelihood of cardiovascular disease later in life. The problem is that standing all day will fatigue you without actually raising your heart rate to the point where it signals your cardiovascular system to get stronger. Sure, you're standing, but you're still sedentary. Metabolically speaking, it's like leaving your headlights on. You're also switching one set of side effects for another, both of which negatively affect your back in the long run. Since you'll develop a want to sit much sooner than a want to stand. your brain is essentially multitasking and affects your work, like it or not. (Try pulling a crunch with a standing desk, it's not fun.)
Rather than favoring standing or sitting, incorporating movement into my day has worked best for me. I walk .4 miles to the train, 1.2 miles to work, .3 miles for lunch, and another .4 to the store every day. Both ways, that adds up to 4.6 miles a day not including trips around the office or a coffee run. Statistically, I walk two to three times that of an average American just by getting my chores done which makes me feel far better than when I used a standing desk. Ironically, this is exactly what physical therapists have been suggesting the whole time.
Speaking of irony, @Mightypea, you spelled "embarrassingly" wrong.
The good thing is: It's no less a sitting desk when you're sitting at it.
Snark aside, I simply don't see what you've got against standing desks.
I can agree with you that the supposed health benefits of standing are massively oversold, and I see your point that it can deter some from extra physical exercise - just sure make you don't over-adjust for the trend-factor by becoming blindly hateful of something that's popular.
I love mine, and I don't assume that standing for a few hours a day replaces cardio. I like it because it keeps me more focused, it helps with my knees, shoulders and neck (I end up moving a lot more when standing, whether to music, or just fidgeting), and you just feel like you're in the future when you press a button and your desk whirrs and moves up.
ps.: Mistake noted. Irony? you attribute a lot to a single missing letter!