1st PC Build
Hi looking into building a new PC a few questions.
1. Should I go with AMD or Intel as I have seen AMD is cheaper.
2. Do I need a good graphics card.
3. Should I overclock the cpu.
4. Computer will be used for highpoly modelling, animation and some rendering.
5. Budget is £850
1. Should I go with AMD or Intel as I have seen AMD is cheaper.
2. Do I need a good graphics card.
3. Should I overclock the cpu.
4. Computer will be used for highpoly modelling, animation and some rendering.
5. Budget is £850
Replies
You will need a graphics card a GTX460 would be a good start.
I wouldnt recommend overclocking the cpu, your performance increase probably wont be that much noticable. With this sort of work you want reliability more than speed.
Buy a simple, well rated motherboard that has only what you need, avoid triple SLI and 48 ram slots and 6 PCI slots etc. Most minimal micro-atx boards will be PLENTY. Do not overpay here for advanced overclocking features or other silly things that you do not need.
8 gigs of ram, get the max speed your motherboard supports, ignore the (OC) memory speeds on your motherboard specs.
Intel 460 or better, 560 seems to be going for a good price these days too. Dont even bother thinking about SLI, support for SLI is a mess and you're better off just buying a better GPU, instead of 2 crappy ones. SLI isn't really going to help for game dev. Check the size of the video card before you buy it, some high end video cards require you to have a massive case to be able to have enough room to install it. There can be a good deal(like -/+ two inches) variance between the same video card but different manufacturers.
Buy an SSD if you can fit it in your budget, 120gb or more if you can. Install your OS and important art apps on it and current working project art files. Get a 1TB or so drive for general storage, games, mp3s, archived art files etc etc.
Buy a reasonable power supply, get something in the 550-650W range with 80+ efficiency. Look for PSUs that have free shipping, as shipping can often cost $30 extra. Avoid the urge to buy a $200 1000w power supply with blinking lights etc. Its just a waste of resources.
Dont overspend on the case, $50-100 for something simple and sturdy, with tool-less drive bays is all you need. Ignore the people who post after me telling you that you need A. a $250 case or B. a super huge case that would survive a tank running over it. Its just not something you need, and large heavy cases are more of a pain than they are a convenience. Sure its nice to have massive amounts of room when you first build your pcs, but you wont be opening it up every day after that... Just get something medium sized and reasonably priced. Because you're getting a modest motherboard, and paying attention to the size of your video card, you'll be able to easily use a mid-sized case. Be sure to check the specs on computer cases and avoid cases that weight 20+ pounds, 10-15 is a better number. Again look for free shipping here.
If you're buying a DVD drive, skip the OEM and buy a retail. This will cost $10 more, but you get all the software and decoders etc, which are required if you actually want to watch dvds.
Avoid AMD/ATI, you get what you pay for. AMD/ATI is marketed towards gamers looking to build on the cheap, that have time to custom tweak their drivers to actually get their system to run with various games/apps. If you want stability and compatibility, go Intel/Nvidia.
That should just about cover it.
Feel free to post if you have any questions about specific components as you start looking, ie: will this case be big enough, with my CPU fit in this mobo, is this the right type of ram etc etc.
- Never buy top of the line, get the best of the previous generation for half the price or less
- Modern computers can get really, really loud. Invest in quiet parts and a good case.
- Get an SSD for windows and crucial programs if you can afford it. Get a 1 or 2TB Western Digital hard drive.
- Overclocking CPUs is almost always completely unnecessary. Invest in an SSD instead.
- Overclocking GPUs is a crapshoot. I actually underclock mine for stability.
- On that note, I've been very unhappy with my last two nvidia cards. I'll be switching to ATI, personally.
- RAM is cheap get at least 4GB
Cooler master elite 330
Intel Heatsink & Fan - Low Noise
Corsair 8GB XMS3 PC3-12800 1600MHz (2x4GB) - Lifetime Warranty (DDR3)
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 560 - 1 GB - (PALIT) (PCI-E)
Asus P8H67-M PRO (Intel H67) B3 - VGA
Motherboard Integrated HD Sound
Motherboard Integrated Ethernet Lan (Broadband Ready)
Cooler Master 500W PSU - Low Noise
Professional Cable Standard
OCZ ONYX SATA-II 32 GB Solid State HDD - Silent
500G Western Digital WD5000AAKX Caviar Blue SATA 6Gbps 7200rpm 16Gb Cache
Samsung (SH-D162D) 16x DVD-ROM - Black (SATA)
Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium 64 BIT (Genuine DVD & COA Included)
Windows Backup
Standard Slim Keyboard (PS/2)
Standard Black Optical Mouse (USB)
FREE - Cooler Master Gaming Mouse Mat
how is this spec by the way this is from the website computer planet.
Personally I use Nvidia cards most of the time as I prefer their drivers and I have read about alot more people having problems with ATI/AMD cards when it comes to 3d software.
As far your build goes, for me the ssd would be a bit too small 32GB would come close to just windows and all of my programs.
You might also want to look at the z68 chipset motherboard, they have a feature called ssd caching which pretty much combines an ssd and a disk drive as 1 logical drive where it uses the speed of the ssd for the most used data and the capacity of the disk drive.
CPU looks good, get the non K version if it is significantly cheaper, the K is only for overclockers.
Mobo looks good, small and only what you really need, and looks like a reasonable price. Asus generally makes pretty good mobos.
Your ram is too fast it looks like, specs on your mobo say DDR3 1333/1066, so your 1600 ram would run underclocked, if you can find 1333/1066 ram cheaper go for it. Ram is cheap enough that it shouldn't be much of an issue. However you may have issues trying to run 1600, you may need to manually underclock it in the bios or something.
I would definitely go for a larger SSD, you will really regret getting a 32GB drive, that is just way too small, barely enough for an OS install and essential apps, let alone any random temp data etc that is generally stored on your OS drive. 120GB or better is what you want really, maybe you can squeeze by with 96. If you have to pay a little extra for this, it is very very much worth it.
Get a logitech MX 518 for your mouse, unless you prefer the cheap generic mice(some people do) the 518 is super comfortable, good for long days doing 3d work.
IMO its worth getting the K, apparently they overclock very well a it's only a fraction more. I'm looking forward to overclocking it when I get bored, could easily add an extra gig to each core. Got to agree with the others that it's so fast it's not worth worrying about overclocking from the start.
I got a gtx 460 though and it's doing great on any games I want to play, although I'm really just doing 3d stuff atm. I figured I would get another one in a couple of generations If I needed something faster but can't see it.
Like everyone said, 120gig ssd min. It is amazing though.
Also I wouldnt recommend using the standard cooler with the cpu, their usually bad at cooling and noisy. I have the Titan Fenrir Evo Cpu Cooler which works really well.
- Asrock p67 extreme 6 B3
- 16gb Gskill ddr3 1600mhz cl8
- Cpu Noctua cooler NH-u12p se2
- x2 Tacens Ventus Ice II
- Cooler Master CM 690 II Advanced
- Cooler Master[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] Silent Pro Gold 700W
- Sony DVD writer
- All in one reader for all kind of memories.
- 3 TB HD hitachi 7k3000
That is what i'm using right now and i spent less than 1000 euros.
If you live in a hot place as me, with more than 40ºC in summer, a good cpu cooler is a must buy. With my 2600@4ghz, i have it at 45ºC. The case + noctua + tacens do a great job with the cooling.
Study very well what you buy, look always info about the mobo you buy, its problems, its compatible memories, etc. To build a computer can be easy, but it takes time to study/build a stable PC.
BTW, a good ssd will help you launch the apps and windows faster (not much with the sata ssds), and believe it... 120gb is not a lot, and you will run out of space very soon.
if you really want TRUE perfomance and you can afford it, go for a pci-e ssd. Otherwise, we have very good HDs with a great perfomance.
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SSD has to be 120+. Essential apps, and current project. When your project is finished, just move it to a normal HDD.
A basic sata SSD is going to blast any traditional HDD, sure you can get better performance for 2x the cost with a PCI-E, but that sort of, missing the point of a 850 euro build...
This is about the only reasonably priced PCI-E SSD I could find, and for the price/performance it looks like a good deal: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227709
But for a lower end build with a minimal budget, one of these may be a better choice:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227704&cm_re=vertex_2-_-20-227-704-_-Product
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227601&cm_re=vertex_2-_-20-227-601-_-Product
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227551&cm_re=vertex_2-_-20-227-551-_-Product
I mean honestly, I have the 120GB Vertex 2, and there is a MASSIVE difference between my SSD and a traditional HDD, so it should certainly be more than acceptable for your average build. Certainly the Revodrive VS the 120gb version, the Revo is probably a bit better value, but at 260 that is likely just a disproportionate amount to spend on a build like this.
Its also worth noting that there is likely a point where you're just not noticing it that much in normal use, going from a traditional HDD to a SSD, you'll see a big real world improvement, going from a SSD to an even faster SSD, i'm not really sure how much you'll actually notice.
Then, you look at the fact that the revo drive is basically just 2 SSDs in raid, and does not support Trim, I would just avoid it all together.
AMD owns ATI and Nvidia seems to run better with Intel. I personally have had problems with ATI cards in the past, and when I was doing tech support 5-6 years ago ATI cards had a lot more driver issues than Nvidia.
2) Yes. More and more programs are turning to the GPU as a second processor for more power. Considering you want to do
3) No need. All parts have a lifespan, if you overclock you're just burning through those hours that much faster. Also you probably won't even need to use that extra 2% of power or probably won't even notice a difference. Overclocking is for idiots who like to use bench scores as bragging rights.
4-5) You can get good system for that price.
Sigh, if only we could have such a thing in place automatically that gets updated every 6 months, it would work wonders...or atleast has a list of parts in such said fashion.
I'm holding out on SSD's... the tech is too young and too expensive. My computer already boots up in 15 seconds anyway. I can wait.
Not sure if this is true anymore,
CPU benchmarks lists them
AMD Phenom II X6 1100T score of 6,287 @ $189.99*
Intel Core i7-2600K @ 3.40GHz score of 9,724 @ $299.99*
so big price and performance difference.
and afik, I've not done it, the new i7s overclock with a single voltage change that isn't burning them out untill you get really stupid, ie 5ghz per core.
As for overclocking. It's a bit of a mixed bag. If you want to spend the time adjusting multipliers and checking for stability then you might want do it, but only after you've thoroughly researched it. The only thing that can really burn out your CPU faster is if you have to increase the voltage. At that point your ROI on the performance/lifespan is going to get narrower. Unlocked multipliers make it easier to do overclocking without over-taxing your core and they can get you at least a 10% increase without increasing heat and voltage. Overclocking or not, get an aftermarket air cooler. They are worth it. The stock coolers are tested against ideal lab conditions. The more heat you can pull off your CPU, the longer it will last. Personally, I think overclocking is just too much work, but some people are willing to put in the time and they get some pretty impressive results.
Speaking of heat, you might want to think about filtered fans, preferably cases that come with filtered fans. It makes a big difference how much dirt will get sucked up by your system and kills your airflow. You should still clean your case out though. Dirt = heat = shorter equipment lifetime.
INTEL CORE I5 2500 - 3.30GHz - 6MB,
AKASA AK-968 X4 CPU COOLER,
8GB DDR3 Kingston 1333 (4x 2GB),
500GB SATA Hard Drive,
60Gb SSD sata 2.5,
ASUS P8P67-M PRO REV3, P67(B3) - 4 x DIMM, Max. 32 GB, DDR3 1866(O.C.) - SATA6 XFIRE/SLI,
1024MB GTX 560 Ti PCI Express Nvidia DDR DVI DX11,
Beta EVO Black Midi Case No Psu,
450Watt Cougar Extreme PSU,
DVD+/- RW - 22X Samsung SATA,
Windows 7 Home premium 64 bit,
for the money they ask for this processor, you're better off with a stock cooler, which is almost the same as you selected. They ask almost £300, meanwhile on Amazon it costs about £200.
its probably better to go for 2x 4GB, later you can put another set of 2x 4GB, without thinking what to do with you old set of 4x 2GB. But they don't have that option, at least for the same memory type. It should cost you about the same amount of money.
that SSD is small. If you don't have money atm, just buy 1TB HDD, and when you have money, buy 120GB SSD.
i wouldn't risk putting these two things together, sure its +£0.00 PSU, but its also some noname stuff.
If you don't feel like building you PC yourself, thats fine, but I'm with others saying that it is better option, and not that hard at all. I kinda hate doing that stuff myself, but I always did it anyway
But when you get a generic PSU, it may have to pull in 850w of power just to generate that 450w, which makes it a drain on your monthly power bill, but also much more prone to failure.
As others have said, if you build yourself, you'll be able to afford some better components. I would highly recommend doing that.
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/
They have a good forum where you can get lots of advice as well, they'll probably even put a spec together for you.
PC CaseRaidmax Galaxy Black - Included
Case Fan1 x 120mm Standard Case Fan - Included
Case Fan ControllerNot Included
Power SupplyQuiet Xilence 580W 2 x PCI-E (+£40.00)
ProcessorIntel Core i5 2500, Quad Core (1155, 3.30GHz, 6MB Cache) (+£25.00)
Heatsink & CPU FanQuiet Arctic Cooler Freezer 7 Pro With 92mm Fan (+£25.00)
MotherboardAsus P8H61-M Pro, 2xDIMM, Max. 16GB, M-ATX (USB 3.0, SATA 3.0) (+£20.00)
Memory8GB (2 x 4GB) Mushkin PC10600 1333MHz DDR3 (+£70.00)
PCI-E GraphicsATI HD5670 1GB (+£65.00)
Sound CardIntegrated 7.1 Channel Audio - Included
Primary Hard Drive120GB Solid State Drive SATA II (+£135.00)
Main Optical Drive24x Dual Layer DVD +/- Rewriter - Included
USB Ports 2.02 Front + 4 Back Ports - Included
USB Ports 3.0Not Included
Fire WireNot Included
TFT / LED Monitor21.5 Inch AOC F22+ Wide, VGA/DVI, 1920x1080, 60000:1, 5ms - Included
TFT Dead Pixel CheckNot Included
Monitor CableVGA To VGA - Included
Keyboard & Mouse ComboNot Included
Wired KeyboardStandard Multimedia - Included
MouseStandard Wired Optical - Included
SpeakersLogitech S120 Black 2.0 Surround Sound - Included
Operating SystemGenuine Windows 7 Home Premium (64bit Version) - Included
PC Performance OptimizationNot Included
Professional SoftwareNot Included
Antivirus & Security SoftwareNot Included
Multimedia SoftwareNot Included
Office SoftwareNot Included
Surge ProtectorsNot Included
MiscellaneousNot Included
Warranty2 Years Return To Base (1st yr. Parts & Labour, 2nd yr. Labour) - Included
£712.50
Subtotal exc. VAT£712.50
VAT Rate @ 20.00%£142.50
Grand Total inc. VAT£855.00
Prebuilds are bad. Everyone isn't saying it for no reason.
Prebuilds cut corners so they get the parts at lower costs, but then mark up the prices for you.
For that computer, if you built it yourself, you would be saving a considerable amount of money while getting more power and more reliability than you would get with a prebuild.
Motherboard £130 Asus P8P67 PRO Intel P67 (Socket 1155) DDR3 Motherboard - (Sandybridge) ** B3 REVISION
Ram £50 Kingston HyperX Blu 8GB (2x4GB) DDR3 PC3-10666C9 1333MHz Dual Channel Kit
CPU £222 Intel Core i7-2600 3.40GHz (Sandybridge) Socket LGA1155 Processor
Optical drive £17 Samsung SH-S222AB/BEBE 22x DVD±RW SATA ReWriter (Black)
Graphics card £174 Asus GeForce GTX 560Ti DirectCU II 1024MB GDDR5 PCI-Express
SSD £125 OCZ Vertex 120GB 2.5" SATA-II Solid State
Hard DriveHardrive £30 Western Digital Caviar Blue 500GB SATA 6Gb/s 16MB Cache
Cooler £20 Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 Pro Rev 2 CPU Cooler
Power supply £63 Antec High Current Gamer 620W '80 Plus Bronze' Power Supply
any advice on the spec or differnet build suggestions.
Don't forget to buy a case though! =P
You may want to look at the Vertex II SSD, as I think some important changes were made that help improve the overall life expectancy of the drive. If its not much more, it would be worth it.
i7 have larger L3 cache (8MB instead of 6MB for i5), +100MHz, and more powerful integrated graphics, which is pretty much irrelevant.
Motherboard £130 Asus P8P67 PRO Intel P67 (Socket 1155) DDR3 Motherboard - (Sandybridge) ** B3 REVISION
Ram £50 Kingston HyperX Blu 8GB (2x4GB) DDR3 PC3-10666C9 1333MHz Dual Channel Kit
CPU £160 Intel Core i5-2500 3.30GHz (Sandybridge) Socket LGA1155 Processor
Optical drive £17 Samsung SH-S222AB/BEBE 22x DVD±RW SATA ReWriter (Black)
Graphics card £174 Asus GeForce GTX 560Ti DirectCU II 1024MB GDDR5 PCI-Express Graphics Card
SSD £150 OCZ Vertex 2E Bigfoot 120GB 3.5" SATA-II Solid State Hard Drive
Hardrive £30 Western Digital Caviar Blue 500GB SATA 6Gb/s 16MB Cache
Cooler £20 Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 Pro Rev 2 CPU Cooler
Power supply £63 Antec High Current Gamer 620W '80 Plus Bronze' Power Supply
Case £33 Cooler Master Elite 370 Case - Black
Would all of this fit into the case, will everything work together.
That case is 48 cm long, minus ~17 cm for optical drive bays, it should give you about 30 cm for everything else. I couldn't find dimensions for your videocard, but most likely it will fit. Thats your largest part to worry about, everything else is standard.
BUT! if you ever decide to change your CPU cooler, this case will limit your choice, as its only 19 cm wide. Something like Noctua NH-D14 wouldn't fit. Not that you really need it for i5, but personally, I took it because its quiet like there is no computer at all, and after last summer I've had my concerns. Also, building your PC in that case, won't be anywhere near good experience. The only thing good about this case is that its cheap.
Speaking of coolers, btw, I'm not sure if that Arctic Cooling Freezer is any better than stock one, what comes with the processor.
Motherboard £130 Asus P8P67 PRO Intel P67 (Socket 1155) DDR3 Motherboard - (Sandybridge) ** B3 REVISION
Ram £50 Kingston HyperX Blu 8GB (2x4GB) DDR3 PC3-10666C9 1333MHz Dual Channel Kit
CPU £160 Intel Core i5-2500 3.30GHz (Sandybridge) Socket LGA1155 Processor
Optical drive £17 Samsung SH-S222AB/BEBE 22x DVD±RW SATA ReWriter (Black)
Graphics card £174 Asus GeForce GTX 560Ti DirectCU II 1024MB GDDR5 PCI-Express Graphics Card
SSD £150 OCZ Vertex 2E Bigfoot 120GB 3.5" SATA-II Solid State Hard Drive
Hardrive £30 Western Digital Caviar Blue 500GB SATA 6Gb/s 16MB Cache
Cooler £25 Xigmatek Gaia
Power supply £63 Antec High Current Gamer 620W '80 Plus Bronze' Power Supply
Case £43 Zalman Z9 Plus Tower Case
Operating system £65 Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium 64 Bit - OEM
Just found a great LG 22 inch moniter for only £98
if I were you, I would skip the SSD part for a time being. its almost 17% of your current budget, and I think thats a lot to pay, for something you don't really need for your PC to work. Its not like you rebooting you computer every 5 mins, and unless you plan to work with large files, you probably won't notice much difference.
and something to consider - your motherboard have 4 SATA III (6Gb/s) ports, and there is already Vertex 3 on the market which is faster than Vertex 2 for SATA II. Its more expensive too, but as I said, you can live without it, until you have money.
I would drop the CPU cooler, if you live somewhere that is climate controlled, and your case has decent cooling, you really should not need an after market cooler. If you live somewhere balls-hot, and do not have air conditioning, the cooler is probably a good idea. If you're not doing any OCing, and your room temperature is reasonable, you simply do not need one. Besides, its pretty easy to buy one later if you do decide for some reason that you need it.
But honestly, what you have here is pretty solid, any sacrifices you make from this price point are going to result in sub-par components.
indeed
I will buy an SSD later for sure.. its just it can wait really.
Like EQ dont drop the SSD!!! Its awesome and anything less than a 120ig will be too small, you also cant upgrade it later easily. And might as well drop the custom cooler if you want to save money.
Hey, with the SSD you will launch windows and the apps faster... is that so important? what's up with the SSDs? they are very expensive right now. It's a huge amount of money he can save... and it's always better not to pay for the ultimate thing in storage as the hardcore gamers do with the graphic cards.
I would recommend to buy 1600mhz memories (it would suppose only a few pounds or nothing more like in spain), we can use the memories at that speed touching the bios and it's always better for our pc.
Also, you can save more money buying an Asrock mobo.
I would actually like to know, so not trying to be argumentative. Where would I see the difference with a 560 over a 460? TBH I wasn't expecting to change it at all, maybe when the new gen of consoles come out the new games will want it.
Have you tried an SSD? It feels great using one at home compared to my work pc. Even on My own pc I can tell the difference when accessing the SSD compared to the HDD (although I do think the HDD goes into sleep mode sometimes that dosen't help it)
Friends have ssds with 270mb/s of perfomance and the whole thing is not like to throw rockets XDD.
so, instead of buying one expensive thing later, you actually suggesting buying two expensive things?
can you explain a little bit, how exactly great it feels? because while I fully understand the benefits of having an SSD, I clearly don't understand what it is you do with your computer?
When I wake up, I'm pressing power button and go to the bathroom, then kitchen, and when I finally come back, its already fully operational, and I don't really care if took 40 secs or 20 secs for windows to boot-up, because meanwhile I was doing other things. Its also doesn't help with modeling speed. Or texture painting. Workwise its good only to save time when saving/loading your files. And that is if you work with really large ones. Well, your programs will start faster too. Good. But its not some sort of necessity, one can't live without. At least for a while longer.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not being hostile, I really just don't get it. The OP is obviously on a tight bugdet here. Don't you think its better to get some quality for the parts he really NEEDS?
BUT!
It's not THAT amazing, especially on how much you're shelling out for it, 120GB is cock change at this point, I fill up that space in less then project or two, and if you're working on several things, that too becomes cock change in a cock change, making two cock changes by four.
In Max, I can Box my models OR hide them with my scene manager. In Photoshop, I just make sure my GPU is beefy enough and keep around 4K in texture size. In Mudbox, I make sure Smooth is off for my LP, and for ZB, I just hide the parts I don't need. So overall, I work around my HDD's so called "slow" speed and so far I have fared fine.
SSD may be the future, but I don't see how someone on a budget has to buy it. A GPU with robust capabilities alongside a high core cound and cache process is where is helps. RAM naturally helps, but that goes without saying in this day and age. Anything else you're, you gaining too little for the investment, especially if you want faster SSD speeds...I mean 300$ for a 120GB which has read and write seq of 270-285? Triple cock change.
Certainly you do not need an SSD, and sure you can buy one later. But that means doing a fresh OS install, and thats a pain in the ass.
Loading/saving large files, Vmem, no degradation of performance over time, no high failure rate of moving parts, no need to fragment, etc etc there are many advantages to having an SSD other than your computer turning on quickly.
My 120GB SSD was $200, a price that is high, but I do not feel cheated about it or anything. Prices are dropping every day, so that is good news, when we start to get to the $1/GB price range is when we'll see everyone using them.
At the end of the day, the OP is only like 50 euros over budget here, its not like the SSD is pushing him 300 euros over his budget and is totally out of reach. He could drop the SSD entirely and pick up a i7 2600 instead, that wouldn't be a bad move at all, but its not like its unthinkable to put an SSD in his system. It just boils down to where you want to see that performance gain.