Seeking Advice on entering the Gaming world, post college.
First and very foremost: I AM SORRY!
I have been to many forums, viewed previous posts along the lines of mine before and I know and understand how tiring seeing 'One Of These Posts' pop up again. I apologize upfront, but I am approaching desperation and am doing everything I can to get my questions answered. I'm sorry for this again, but I still hope that you take the time from your busy day to assist me in any way possible.
Goal: A career in GAME DESIGN. I know this is more the art/model/film crowd, but in looking through the job Census roll call, I see plenty of industry workers here who I hope can shed some light on this regardless
A little (possibly unnecessary) history on me, I graduated college in 2009 with a Bachelor's in Virtual Technology and Design, and two associates in Art and Film. It's 2011 and my three degrees have earned me nothing more than a minimum wage job as a register button pusher, and all resumes have returned stark silence from my prospective employers.
I fear that a great deal of doors and chances have already closed to me. It seems that all Game Designer positions want some form of industry experience. I don't have any experience besides the projects I was handed in classrooms as well as the Senior projects, but those were almost universally handled in groups. Internships aren't a feasible option since I am out of college and almost all Internship positions I look at generally want you to still be in college to be considered, not already graduated.
I have even considered going in LOW entry level, as a QA Game Tester, but every resource I encounter (as well as every silent reply to my Tester resumes) show that most companies don't hire simple In-studio game testers from out of state/city/country.
With most time spent at work, and then my "free time" spent hunting for jobs and sending out resumes over the last 2 years I am beginning to strongly fear a degradation of my skills, and thus a DECREASE in any further ability to be hired not to mention my increasing age which sadly isn't going LOWER
I am willing to answer ANY questions anyone has, completly open to suggestions and criticism of any kind and am looking for any and all help, professional or otherwise.
Anything to help me get going in the industry and on the road path for Game Designer.
PS. Yes, I've seen the youtube videos of those robots "so you want to work in games" and know that Game Designer is not just "The idea guy." I'm definitely no disillusioned on the business I want to get into I'm just....slowly growing more jaded and frustrated, lol.
I have been to many forums, viewed previous posts along the lines of mine before and I know and understand how tiring seeing 'One Of These Posts' pop up again. I apologize upfront, but I am approaching desperation and am doing everything I can to get my questions answered. I'm sorry for this again, but I still hope that you take the time from your busy day to assist me in any way possible.
Goal: A career in GAME DESIGN. I know this is more the art/model/film crowd, but in looking through the job Census roll call, I see plenty of industry workers here who I hope can shed some light on this regardless
A little (possibly unnecessary) history on me, I graduated college in 2009 with a Bachelor's in Virtual Technology and Design, and two associates in Art and Film. It's 2011 and my three degrees have earned me nothing more than a minimum wage job as a register button pusher, and all resumes have returned stark silence from my prospective employers.
I fear that a great deal of doors and chances have already closed to me. It seems that all Game Designer positions want some form of industry experience. I don't have any experience besides the projects I was handed in classrooms as well as the Senior projects, but those were almost universally handled in groups. Internships aren't a feasible option since I am out of college and almost all Internship positions I look at generally want you to still be in college to be considered, not already graduated.
I have even considered going in LOW entry level, as a QA Game Tester, but every resource I encounter (as well as every silent reply to my Tester resumes) show that most companies don't hire simple In-studio game testers from out of state/city/country.
With most time spent at work, and then my "free time" spent hunting for jobs and sending out resumes over the last 2 years I am beginning to strongly fear a degradation of my skills, and thus a DECREASE in any further ability to be hired not to mention my increasing age which sadly isn't going LOWER
I am willing to answer ANY questions anyone has, completly open to suggestions and criticism of any kind and am looking for any and all help, professional or otherwise.
Anything to help me get going in the industry and on the road path for Game Designer.
PS. Yes, I've seen the youtube videos of those robots "so you want to work in games" and know that Game Designer is not just "The idea guy." I'm definitely no disillusioned on the business I want to get into I'm just....slowly growing more jaded and frustrated, lol.
Replies
all I can say is dont give up. Im not.
Time to get into something..specialize..like designing environenments for games? Level designer? It's just easier to get into and you have something to show in your portfolio detailing your workflow. You don't need to create the art yourself, use the art available to you and create maps and levels.
Show that you have skills in
- Optimization for video-games (level design is really really important in this aspect)
- Making fun multiplayer maps
- Making interesting and fun singleplayer maps (you can use simple primitives to create a map in UDK, you don't have to learn anything else, it will all be using a white/gray simple shader.
Just google level-designer portfolios and have a look, the most impressive ones detail everything about the levels they created, what they thought whilst doing it. Showing off simple blockouts, theories of why a design could work or not etc.
There are probably a lot of books on it, buy a video-game optimization book focusing on design rather than the coding aspect of it, and learn everything you can about designing levels. That'll help I bet.
I think if you really want to do this then you should consider relocating on your own if an opportunity presents itself because I'm not sure how you'd get a break otherwise.
Like artists, some game designers have to take tests so it might be worth it to track some down and see if you can do them. For example, some MMO companies might ask you to create an interesting quest or something like that, and work out the logistics.
Network with some game designers on LinkedIn and the like and see if you can get one of them to give you some advice.
It's a hard time to land a job in any creative field right now, the competition is very fierce with so many experienced people out of work. You probably need something to make your portfolio stand out from the crowd.
Perhaps team up with a artist and/or coder and crank some indie games out to beef up your portfolio, sharpen your skills, and possibly even earn you some cash.
Best of luck to you.
http://clicknothing.typepad.com/
(With links to other Designers/Creative Director types).
He actually has his degree in Quantum Physics (which really doesn't have a direct correlation to games).
He got into the industry the same way many of us did. He started working on a portfolio on the side as a hobbyist.
Though as a designer, his portfolio consisted of mods, levels, game design ideas fleshed out in Unreal, and a plethora of GDDs.
His proficiency, and creativity with Unreal landed him a job at Ubisoft on the first Splinter Cell, and by Chaos Theory, (due to various key people leaving mid project) he was rapidly thrust into a lead/CD role.
So imho, go to Unity, Hammer, UDK forums, and become active there. Post/share your ideas, and learn those engines like the back of your hand.
Start making some levels, and start making some mods.
Heck play around with level editors from already existing games. Starcraft 2 Editor has some amazing capabilities. Little Big Planet has some cool stuff.
Start small and managable.
All i can say is good luck. The chances of getting one of those jobs with no experience is very very VERY slim. From what Ive read and heard from others, most people that get that job, got it by working somewhere for a while, and working their way up. so, that QA position you are talking about is actually a good idea, if thats what you`re lookin for. just dont expect to get the job right away. Id say go for the QA and just bust your ass off. start as a QA, move up to lead, supervisor, and all that jazz, and just show an interest in all aspects of the studio. with no experience, id say thats probably your best bet.
This hits most of the major points.
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/extra-credits/2443-So-You-Want-to-be-a-Game-Designer
Do you come up with systems and know why games operate like they do?
Can you balance the technical limitations with your ideas?
Can you communicate your ideas clearly and concisely? (after reading that brick of a post I have my doubts)
Some of the best designers I've ever seen once tried to design their own pen a paper game, lots of math, rules, systems, mechanics and all that kind of stuff.
When you see an experience requirement on a job posting know that they are looking for proof. You don't necessarily need 3-5years experience but you do need to show proof that you can function at that capacity.
You are extremely lucky to be applying to an industry where that isn't a hard and fast rule, but that doesn't mean you can skate in with zero proof...
As people have said, Design is a very, very, difficult area to break into. Typically studios hire from in house for design roles because its easier, cheaper, and there are already a dozen experienced QA testers, Programmers and Artists already in the company who want to move laterally into design. On top of this you have to very technically minded, good at crunching numbers and working with game engines - and be able to prove this.
In summary: get a kick ass portfolio together that blows everyone elses out of the water, or start focusing on other disciplines to get your foot in the door. Preferably both.
1. Go indie and make your own games, build a name for yourself, and either continue doing your own thing or parlay your success as an independent developer into a job.
2. Get an entry level environment artist/level designer position, and work your way up.
Can we PLEASE have stuff like this jammed into a Wiki on "breaking in the industry" with categories of specialties or something... The general discussion forum is getting too many college student topics of this stuff and its really turning into a big Blue Note catalog.:poly008:
As EQ said, GD is a pretty senior position in most companies since they want people with good design and who know how the whole process works.
Where do you live? If you say something like alaska or bumfuck egypt.. then I suggest you find a major city and move to one of them if you want a QA job. If you're out of country, no studio will pay for the work visa for a QA position.
You're doing it wrong. Stop looking for a job and start making a game.
You have two general paths as a game designer - System design or Visual Design. System designers set the combat mechanics, the leveling pace, the crafting system, etc, and they should know at least the basics of programming/scripting.
Visual Designers are rarely titled game designers, they are generally level designers, UI designers or designers focused on the user experience etc.
If you have the technical background then pick up Unity and start scripting out your designs. If you want to focus on more visual then pick up Unreal/Hammer/SC2 map editors and make a level.
No one is going to hire you without a portfolio or sample work, and the industry is at the point now where a simple design doc isn't going to cut it.
chrisradsby: "Game Designer" is a bit vague but when I look at game studio openings all the design jobs are neatly split up into separate openings, level designer being one, and game designer being another. I have...little experience with any level building tools from games (like the ones in Neverwinter Nights 2, Unreal Tournament, etc etc) I could start learning if the design field really is not as separate as the individual openings had me believe.
JMYoung: Do I have the work I've done before? Yes. It's mostly the game my group was 'contracted' to do by local public television for their website as well as the many board games and such we created during our "brainstorming" phases. Do I have a website or place where my work can be viewed and easily understood and accessed without me bringing a folder to an interview? No.
haikai: I hear about 50/50 when it comes to that. Some say it's a great place to start, and I see a few bios of Designers who got their start there. Others say you never even SEE the artists or designers who work on the game because you're locked in a concrete bunker for 10 hours a day, across town from the ACTUAL studio. Clarification on this is actually one of the major things I'm looking for
Ben Apuna: I have been...hesitant to reach out to the smaller studios. Obviously the first place I look are the AAA studios who I feel turn out the highest quality of work. Ubisoft, Bioware, Virgil, Valve, Gearbox, just to name a few. My fear with reaching out to a smaller studio is that my work goes unnoticed by the larger ones. I fear telling a AAA studio "I've worked on X, Y, and Z games," in a resume won't be very beneficial if they never heard of it. MY second fear with a small studio is getting into something run by the "Optimistic Indie Dev" meme some of you may have seen. That's a road that won't go anywhere.
JacqueChoi Bookmarked and reading right now. With Ubisoft near the top of my "wet dream" job list this is definitely a source I will be utilizing. I have played with level BUILDERS way back in the days of RTS levels, but my level CREATOR experience is lacking. I have scripted in Virtools a little bit for the game my group and I made for our college senior project, but no other editors like you mentioned. I will start looking at them. I know Bioware wants dialog/scenes created in their Neverwinter Nights 2 Editor for a writing position...perhaps projects like that WOULD be a good place to start.
slipsius: Again, I always see Game Designer positions separate from other things like Level Designer positions on company job postings. And the job descriptions are always "[FONT="]develop the game systems, controls, and interfaces, and the interactive elements based on the vision of the creative director. Design documents, meetings, etc etc"[/FONT] obviously BROAD brushstrokes of the actual job, but you get the idea.
Mark Dygert: Excelent advice, and yeah I found that video a while back while still searching and doing research. Without giving you my resume, I can say I strongly feel I have the skills and have done the things you described. Had even been doing pen and paper games since I was a kid (lacking in the complex advanced algebra math, obviously) but still, I had rules, cards, items with stats, number charts. The whole nine yards.
dustinbrown: I hear that as well. With how much time has passed already between my college graduation and that I'm 27, quickly climbing up on 30 here, I'm worried the time I spend learning all these new tools will put me even MORE out of the running. I had grown up being told that once you get that college degree, the jobs will flow. The reality being very much the opposite, I fear for my prospects should I take much longer.
Darth Tomi: Sad comment makes me sad
fearian: Skills in 3Dsmax, Zbrush, minor scripting in Virtools, Design theory, art/sketching, functional photoshop knowledge, and all the other things you learn like communication, cooperation, the ability to not get "butthurt" over criticism etc etc. All of those skills is easily enough to be a DESIGNER, but if I were to seek a career in ONE of those skills I wouldn't cut it. Example: my 3D modeling and texturing work leaves much to be desired for a MODELING position. A portfolio of that work would be tossed in the "no" pile when compared to the work of everyone who posted in this thread.
As you and others have mentioned the QA option is looking much more appealing, but there's the problems of my...localization to any studio near me
EarthQuake: It definitely sounds like the overwhelming advice is to begin designing levels. I'm not sure I want to be a LEVEL designer, per se, but from what you and others are saying, the experience will help me move in at least.
CrazyMatt: yeah....I'm sorry
oobersli: Where do I live? Not BFE but pretty close: Boise, Idaho. And with me applying to QA positions at Ubisoft in Toronto, Bioware in Edmonton and other places just to get my foot in the door, your comment makes me super sad.
Xoliul: Besides my school work, education and personal experience? Nothing. For the vast majority of my life I had been told, shown, read, and generally been under the impression that once you posses that piece of paper with "Degree" on it, you were set. The REALITY of the situation that hit me right after graduation, especially in this field, is that one's degree is largely only impressive to oneself. So, Homework assignments? Group projects? Good to go! Level mods? Skins? Hi and low poly Character models and other projects created on my own time outside of class not under direction from a professor? Negative.
Hell, I've taken one coding class and have basically being designing and coding this entire past year. On the side, however, I've been working on my own personal art projects, learning as much as I can and gaining experience so I can build up a good portfolio and get employed.
Good luck
That's typically true. There are game designers, level designers, ui designers, etc. Some places might have just general designers that do a little bit of everything, but they are generally separated in larger studios. I think what people are saying, though, is that being a game designer(someone that is the idea person) is typically a senior position and not something you will probably be able to land right now. Level design can be a gateway into getting to make your ideas happen, environment/level building could be a gateway into level design, etc.
Time to put something together, and more importantly, START designing more games, levels, etc. If you always work at getting better, you will eventually land something.
It depends. Some studios have in-house QA that has a lot of contact with developers. Some don't have any QA and it all gets handled by the publisher, in which case, you probably won't ever see the devs. Regardless, you're not going to get hired out of state/country for a QA position. They're often contract/short-term. If you move to an area with a ton of studios, and land a QA position at a studio that has that stuff in-house, you may be able to move up the ladder. Anything's possible, but it will still come down to you being a good designer and having something that demonstrates these skills.
Gotta get your start somewhere. There's a very fat chance that you're going to get a design job at a AAA studio. Yeah, when interviewing with a large studio in the future, they may never have heard of the games you worked on, but at least you have something to show. Finished products go a long way towards proving you can do what you say you can.
Can't let the age thing get in the way of your dreams. You've done the best thing possible right now, in reaching out for help. It may take some time, but you can definitely get there. Just realize the degrees don't mean much.
You may not want to do level design, but design elements carry over. You will learn a lot about design in general doing levels.
Moving to an area with development studios and/or publishers is probably the best thing you could do to land a QA job if that's the route you decide to take. I don't know that a canadian company would bother going through the work visa process for a QA job especially if they just do short term contracts. Might be better off picking a city like Seattle, Austin, LA, etc to start off.
Time to get started!