Surely the 'wannabe' is somewhat needlessly exaggerated... he coulda wrote the script to just say 'I do have some experience with modeling/texturing' and the rest would still be relevant.
'I've heard you can have action figures on your desk, I heard you get free soda and snacks' 'that's because it's your lunch and your employer doesn't want you to go home'... I lol'd.
I find it annoying that non-geeky people don't believe that a job in the games industry is an incredibly difficult career far more so than any average joe job they will ever do.
Just makes me want to (This sentence has been censored due to gratuitous violence and gore)
While the video is just, I still want to work in the games industry Having a job that matters to you is a good source of motivation. I hope I'll end up better than the robot on the left though
while funny, that's pretty jaded view, I've worked in worse industries. I'm not on call 24/7 and I'm not considered "essential staff" that has to show up even if there's a natural disaster that makes it too dangerous to get to the office.
It'd be interesting to hear if this guy comment on why he made it. All of what is mentioned in the video is pretty true but like with all these simpletext-voiced dialogue videos lately, it is all about negativity, and he didn't include the redeeming values of working in a team of awesome coworkers, the rewarding feeling you get when you see how your work contributes to a game, working in a career that rewards your creativity, etc etc. I'm wondering if he is truly this jaded or just portraying the bad side as a reality check to those bright eyed dreamers who still have yet to take a step into the industry and think it is all fun and games.
It'd be interesting to hear if this guy comment on why he made it.
I remember seeing some of his replies. Here are a couple.
Wow, I guess a link to this just got posted somewhere. Yes, I worked as a programmer at... well, let's just say, at a well-known studio under a major publisher. Plus some start-ups.
Don't get me wrong: making videogames for a living *CAN* be fun, if you're uber-talented, really love the work, have reasonable expectations, and are at a studio with the right environment for you. If any of the above are not true, chances are that you will be miserable. Not a place for dilettantes or dabblers.
Please take my sarcasm in this video (or any xtranormal "career" thing) with a few grains of salt. No, you probably won't work an 80 hour week (unless you have a terrible boss or are your own boss) -- but you can expect some 60s. Some game developers are unhappy. Some love what they do, even with all the stress and corporate BS. YMMV. My own career was a mix of both -- loved it at age 24, was a bit burned out by 32. Now I'm happy as a non-game programmer. Psyched to see rising indie scene, tho.
I for one think my job/jobs fuckin rock. Sure there's downsides to every job but at least i don't have to chug around 100kg bags and bust my ass day in and day out.
If their jobs are truly that awful, maybe they should just give it up and do something else. It must be poisoning their lives and spirit. Sure I get that they're trying to say that it's not all chocolate kisses and roses but fuck, what is?
Instead of responding to all these dreamy people with negativity help them out instead by pointing them in the right way. It's not that hard.
What he described doesn't really only apply to the game industry.. I know a few people in the Arch Viz industry that's been going down with stress and having to take long breaks in order to keep their mental health somewhat stable... The Arch Viz industry is so narrow now a days that the smaller firms either push their employees to a monthly crunchtime in order to hit stupid short deadlines in order to make every project profitable... But I guess that's nearly in any business that involves creative people in a narrowing industry.
Someone who says they are willing to get experience and direction should not necessarily be mocked and insulted. I like to save that for after they fail miserably.
Provide some direction by telling them how you got there and what the difficulties you faced personally etc.
What he described doesn't really only apply to the game industry.. I know a few people in the Arch Viz industry that's been going down with stress and having to take long breaks in order to keep their mental health somewhat stable... The Arch Viz industry is so narrow now a days that the smaller firms either push their employees to a monthly crunchtime in order to hit stupid short deadlines in order to make every project profitable... But I guess that's nearly in any business that involves creative people in a narrowing industry.
It's worse in the vfx/tvc industry. Extremely tight deadlines, ridiculous demands and not enough man power. I'm glad I got out of it
pretty true, but Ive stayed up working for 24 straight hours, snorting aderol to keep my eyes open, hallucinating that my boss was a demon, and I still loved it.
I guess it just weather or not you really enjoy making games, and not just saying you do.
S and your employer doesn't want you to go home'... I lol'd.
although with some studios being located in the middle of nowhere you can get this feeling... or with those huge "everything is right on site - what do you mean with 'leaving'?" places.
~ What I wanna know is: What the hell is a Game Designer?
Do you know what "design" means? XD
I have dealed with "little robots" and i still deal with that kind of ignorant people hahaha. I still don't understand how people can think that working in the industry you become rich.
I seem to fit in a rather confusing position. I am definitely the cardboard box robot: Constantly spouting, "But I want to work in the games industry!" Regardless of whatever the experienced yet jaded robot tells him. As clearly as the jaded robot is struggling to understand why the cardboard one wants to work in such a field, the cardboard one is struggling to understand how he could justify anything else. Meanwhile nothings getting done...
While I hear most of it is true, it seems to be blown a tiny bit out of proportion. I mean not every studio is that bad, but yeah there definitely are some.
I seem to fit in a rather confusing position. I am definitely the cardboard box robot: Constantly spouting, "But I want to work in the games industry!" Regardless of whatever the experienced yet jaded robot tells him. As clearly as the jaded robot is struggling to understand why the cardboard one wants to work in such a field, the cardboard one is struggling to understand how he could justify anything else. Meanwhile nothings getting done...
Start working on stuff? The resources are out there.
You won't magically get a job without any work to show.....
I enjoyed this video immensely. But then, I've always been a fan of Dilbert-style cynical humor.
I don't think the intention of the author was to discourage, so much as to bring youngsters back to reality. In some ways it is a response to the game school commercials that most industry professionals openly mock. As much love as a lot of us have for interactive entertainment, it is true that the business behind them has grown into something that is not friendly toward employees.
And it is probably a lot more realistic for game developers to be willing to consider other careers. Doggedly insisting that this is the only industry for you is a bit limiting.
Of course, I still maintain that the best way to "get into games" is to simply make your own game. That way you can legitimately claim to be a game developer, even if you are not a professional.
The part that rings the most true for me is the fact that we all come to this industry wide eyed and idealistic with ideas about how to make games. We quickly discover that its a very select few that genuinely get to decide and design the games and they are very protective of their turf and that realization can cause people to feel disallusioned... and naturally so.
Likewise, when we first start to get into games enough to design our own, we do begin from a position of premise, we know nothing about the balancing of weapons for instance to make each players preference enjoyable and foster a rock / paper / scissor strategy that adds to creates the gameplay mechanics.
We do tend to come up with a story and slot in 'the best AI ever' as a gameplay design nod only. I did it, I know others that did it and these days there are a lot more over entitled folk out there that think they don't need to work hard to get a get a start because games are so much more mainstream now and attract a wider audience.
I think, 15-20 years ago, the amount of derision you had to suffer simply by admitting you played games and wanted to make them and spent long hours at a pc each night hardened folks to the notion that 'well this is not going to be an easy choice for me'.
Now games are cool, game designers are rockstars... so everyone just wants to 'be' one because they think they are or can be 'cool'. I think this is where a lot of that vids negativity comes from, from all the know nothing wannabes that think the industry owes them a living automatically because they have an idea.
I will double down on his point that 'your idea sucks' and 'we all have ideas'.
The ideas are the easy part, a brain damaged chimp with one arm and a fecal addiction can have an idea that he wants to be a fighter pilot but its unlikely that he will accomplish it.
It is really tough to figure out how to travel from 'the near shore of inspiration to the far shore of accomplishment' (Rip torn - Wonderboys)
Cliff gets regular mails here from people like are portrayed in this vid, telling him that they have 'an idea' and should get a job. We have people that try and force their way into the office so they can show us how it is done and awe us with their idea, stalkers, groupies that feel it is there right to point out what is wrong with our games and show us how to fix it heh
No one gets that we know all this already, that all game companies know all this and the thing that holds us back from making it 'cool' is time and finding a solution that once implemented does not unbalance the rest of the game or cause other flaws that simply become the next thing that is perceived as 'broken'.
This degree of obsessional self entitled fandom is still a pretty new thing to this industry and we are all, I think, still learning how to cope with it. It was easier when we were geeks that no one really respected or wanted to stalk
His point about long hours are often on the money too. It's worth remembering he has left the industry, that things grew dark enough for him that he left. This industry can chew you up and spit you out if you don't have the talent, the drive and the luck to make to somewhere good, but even if you do, those hours are still waiting for you, the difference is that when you do them it equals a great game instead of a piece of crap or worse, vapourware and a bankrupt company.
I could tell you stories, I have experiences I could have done without, but I held on and got to somewhere good so things for me are good. It could have gone another way, there's plenty of folk out there as talented, hard working or more so than me, but they were or are not lucky also. Theres lots of studios out there with no clue or simply unable to not crunch because they don't have the money to pay people for longer than they were funded by the publisher who just moved the ship date.
Its not an easy thing to call, but I think its worth listening to the mans points, less so for folk here who are already learning, working and bettering themselves but for folk who come to this stuff out of the blue, it would be a good first port of call for them
Yea I agree with Ror. I would of written slightly differently...
"I have an idea! It will be great"
"Do you have money to make that idea happen?" "Well no..." "So you expect that a company will take its orders from entry level applicants?"
"No but they will love my idea"
"What happens to the great idea the companies founding members are hiring you to finish?"
"They'll throw it out and start on my idea or finish and get cracking on mine"
"OH really, they won't start working on a sequel or one of the other 50-60 ideas everyone already working there has?" "No... guess not but I really want to make my game!"
"Well then either acquire vast sums of money so you can tell people what to make, make it yourself, or work your way up any way you can knowing that you probably won't make it there in 5-10 years, 15 if you're lucky, by then you'll probably be a shell of a man" "Right... I'm off to buy lottery tickets!"
"Good plan!"
I also don't understand where people get the idea that the industry is somehow obliged to hire them and elevate them to some high pedestal just because they are them. Where does that come from? How is that person headed for anything other than a hard crash when reality comes knocking, it doesn't matter what industry they go to, that just doesn't happen. Who puts that idea in peoples heads and why?
I also don't understand where people get the idea that the industry is somehow obliged to hire them and elevate them to some high pedestal just because they are them. Where does that come from? How is that person headed for anything other than a hard crash when reality comes knocking, it doesn't matter what industry they go to, that just doesn't happen. Who puts that idea in peoples heads and why?
I blame celebrities, and the mass populace's confusing fascination with them. I also blame the popular press, for preying off of this strange trend just to make a quick buck.
An indie band writes a few decent songs, and manages to sign a record deal. Three months later, their songs are being played three or four times a day on every radio station, they are leaving on their first nationwide concert tour, and the marketing machine is in full swing. They are now "celebrities" and their story becomes the inspiration for hundreds of thousands of aspiring garage musicians. "If they could do it, so could we!"
What the starry-eyed youngsters don't see is the hard work and years of indie-scene playing at crappy gigs that the band originally went through. They also don't realize that the exposure and success is more the result of the whims of a major record label and the marketing dollars they committed to their latest "hit." At the end of the day, celebrities are created, cultivated, and pruned by businesses. There may be talent there at the beginning, but the talent isn't what's being showcased or rewarded.
And lets be honest. The game industry doesn't have the kind of "celebrities" that other industries have promoted. Game designers and developers don't get ridiculous monetary contracts. With the current state of the industry, the talented and experienced designers are burning out and leaving, while the corporations are hiring cheaper, starry-eyed youngsters to replace them. (or just outsourcing to other countries) Video games have never enjoyed this kind of notoriety, and with the current direction of big-budget development, probably never will.
So Guitar Hero and Rock Band are to blame... I see...:poly141:
A bit of a simplification. I wasn't necessarily going there with the whole music recording industry analogy. But fundamentally...yeah. The Guitar Hero phenomenon helped bring video games widespread acceptance as an entertainment medium. It could easily be argued that they paved the way for the success of the Wii. And they are probably responsible for equating video games with celebrity in the minds of many of their fans.
To some extent, I still think like the box robot even though I'm very well aware of all the nasty shit that goes in this industry. Maybe it's because I'm still young and didn't have a chance to work in the biz yet, maybe it's because in a way I've always been a bit naive and detached from the cold, bad reality.
But regardless, is it really that bad to have big dreams and ambitions? I've always believed that having some sort of a purpose is a good thing; as long as it drives one to learn and develop, even completely unrealistic goals might have some value. I for one, would rather have my dreams brutally shattered in front of my eyes, than live with the awareness that I have never tried.
That said, I am well aware that this video is aimed at a very specfic group of people who want to become developers. The people that the video portrays however have a low chance at succeeding at anything because they fail to realise the importance of hard work.
But I guess that life's a challenge and we all want to get the highscore. Ugh, guess I had spent way too much time playing games when I was younger.
But regardless, is it really that bad to have big dreams and ambitions? I've always believed that having some sort of a purpose is a good thing; as long as it drives one to learn and develop, even completely unrealistic goals might have some value. I for one, would rather have my dreams brutally shattered in front of my eyes, than live with the awareness that I have never tried.
Optimism, idealism, and enthusiasm are not in and of themselves bad things. We could actually use more of all of those elements in these trying times. It is just important not to allow them to cloud your judgement, or blind you to the realities of the world around you.
I would look to my personal experiences for an example. I don't work in the professional game industry, and never have. The closest I ever came was a second phone interview for a position at Cheyenne Mountain entertainment. I didn't get the job, and a month or so later got a steady job at a web-design company. About a year after that Cheyenne Mountain imploded, and declared bankruptcy. I read horror stories on-line about employees having worked for months without pay before being let go. If I had actually gotten that job, I would have probably ended up in a worse situation than I ended up in. As it stands, I was able to learn a lot more about the technical side of web design and internet coding at the job I found, and I had a decent salary and no dropped paychecks.
But through all of that I have never relinquished my dream of designing games. I've just taken a bit more realistic and practical approach to it. I scaled most of my design ideas down to the level where it would be possible for one person to develop them. I actively went out and took a semester of programming at my local community college. I continued to practice my programming in my free time, and since then I was able to construct and complete at least two Flash games, as well as numerous technical prototypes. Now I am working on my own cross-platform game framework using OpenGL, and I am reasonably hopeful that I will be able to publish my first iPhone app before the end of the year. And I still have a solid 9-5 that pays the bills.
It is a much less ambitious route. And in some ways it is longer and harder. But the rigors of the industry do not necessarily preclude someone from creating video games.
Yes, you did. That's one of the many reasons why there's an EDIT button though. Edit that dang rascal next time instead of making an even more rascal-like post about it!
Replies
'I've heard you can have action figures on your desk, I heard you get free soda and snacks' 'that's because it's your lunch and your employer doesn't want you to go home'... I lol'd.
I'm working in the industry for 4/5 years now, and I still think like the little robot on the left, so...! :P
Just makes me want to (This sentence has been censored due to gratuitous violence and gore)
[ame]
[ame]
/ random post
I remember seeing some of his replies. Here are a couple.
Personally, I love this industry, and I've been an artist in it for a long time.
If their jobs are truly that awful, maybe they should just give it up and do something else. It must be poisoning their lives and spirit. Sure I get that they're trying to say that it's not all chocolate kisses and roses but fuck, what is?
Instead of responding to all these dreamy people with negativity help them out instead by pointing them in the right way. It's not that hard.
EDIT: K, just saw his comments.
That's one of the reasons I like adding stuff to the wiki, feels good to help out the new kids.
At the same time though the guy's vid strikes a nerve with so many devs because it contains so many truths.
Provide some direction by telling them how you got there and what the difficulties you faced personally etc.
It's worse in the vfx/tvc industry. Extremely tight deadlines, ridiculous demands and not enough man power. I'm glad I got out of it
I guess it just weather or not you really enjoy making games, and not just saying you do.
although with some studios being located in the middle of nowhere you can get this feeling... or with those huge "everything is right on site - what do you mean with 'leaving'?" places.
I don't get that bit. pretty sure that's a job..
It's better than working at a call center.
Do you know what "design" means? XD
I have dealed with "little robots" and i still deal with that kind of ignorant people hahaha. I still don't understand how people can think that working in the industry you become rich.
I still can't get this:
[ame]
While I hear most of it is true, it seems to be blown a tiny bit out of proportion. I mean not every studio is that bad, but yeah there definitely are some.
Start working on stuff? The resources are out there.
You won't magically get a job without any work to show.....
I don't think the intention of the author was to discourage, so much as to bring youngsters back to reality. In some ways it is a response to the game school commercials that most industry professionals openly mock. As much love as a lot of us have for interactive entertainment, it is true that the business behind them has grown into something that is not friendly toward employees.
And it is probably a lot more realistic for game developers to be willing to consider other careers. Doggedly insisting that this is the only industry for you is a bit limiting.
Of course, I still maintain that the best way to "get into games" is to simply make your own game. That way you can legitimately claim to be a game developer, even if you are not a professional.
this always made me LOL!
Is that... real? If it is.... well.... :poly122:
Likewise, when we first start to get into games enough to design our own, we do begin from a position of premise, we know nothing about the balancing of weapons for instance to make each players preference enjoyable and foster a rock / paper / scissor strategy that adds to creates the gameplay mechanics.
We do tend to come up with a story and slot in 'the best AI ever' as a gameplay design nod only. I did it, I know others that did it and these days there are a lot more over entitled folk out there that think they don't need to work hard to get a get a start because games are so much more mainstream now and attract a wider audience.
I think, 15-20 years ago, the amount of derision you had to suffer simply by admitting you played games and wanted to make them and spent long hours at a pc each night hardened folks to the notion that 'well this is not going to be an easy choice for me'.
Now games are cool, game designers are rockstars... so everyone just wants to 'be' one because they think they are or can be 'cool'. I think this is where a lot of that vids negativity comes from, from all the know nothing wannabes that think the industry owes them a living automatically because they have an idea.
I will double down on his point that 'your idea sucks' and 'we all have ideas'.
The ideas are the easy part, a brain damaged chimp with one arm and a fecal addiction can have an idea that he wants to be a fighter pilot but its unlikely that he will accomplish it.
It is really tough to figure out how to travel from 'the near shore of inspiration to the far shore of accomplishment' (Rip torn - Wonderboys)
Cliff gets regular mails here from people like are portrayed in this vid, telling him that they have 'an idea' and should get a job. We have people that try and force their way into the office so they can show us how it is done and awe us with their idea, stalkers, groupies that feel it is there right to point out what is wrong with our games and show us how to fix it heh
No one gets that we know all this already, that all game companies know all this and the thing that holds us back from making it 'cool' is time and finding a solution that once implemented does not unbalance the rest of the game or cause other flaws that simply become the next thing that is perceived as 'broken'.
This degree of obsessional self entitled fandom is still a pretty new thing to this industry and we are all, I think, still learning how to cope with it. It was easier when we were geeks that no one really respected or wanted to stalk
His point about long hours are often on the money too. It's worth remembering he has left the industry, that things grew dark enough for him that he left. This industry can chew you up and spit you out if you don't have the talent, the drive and the luck to make to somewhere good, but even if you do, those hours are still waiting for you, the difference is that when you do them it equals a great game instead of a piece of crap or worse, vapourware and a bankrupt company.
I could tell you stories, I have experiences I could have done without, but I held on and got to somewhere good so things for me are good. It could have gone another way, there's plenty of folk out there as talented, hard working or more so than me, but they were or are not lucky also. Theres lots of studios out there with no clue or simply unable to not crunch because they don't have the money to pay people for longer than they were funded by the publisher who just moved the ship date.
Its not an easy thing to call, but I think its worth listening to the mans points, less so for folk here who are already learning, working and bettering themselves but for folk who come to this stuff out of the blue, it would be a good first port of call for them
http://www.thetester.com/AboutTheTester.html
It seems to be real and season 2 is coming or something,lol
"I have an idea! It will be great"
"Do you have money to make that idea happen?"
"Well no..."
"So you expect that a company will take its orders from entry level applicants?"
"No but they will love my idea"
"What happens to the great idea the companies founding members are hiring you to finish?"
"They'll throw it out and start on my idea or finish and get cracking on mine"
"OH really, they won't start working on a sequel or one of the other 50-60 ideas everyone already working there has?"
"No... guess not but I really want to make my game!"
"Well then either acquire vast sums of money so you can tell people what to make, make it yourself, or work your way up any way you can knowing that you probably won't make it there in 5-10 years, 15 if you're lucky, by then you'll probably be a shell of a man"
"Right... I'm off to buy lottery tickets!"
"Good plan!"
I also don't understand where people get the idea that the industry is somehow obliged to hire them and elevate them to some high pedestal just because they are them. Where does that come from? How is that person headed for anything other than a hard crash when reality comes knocking, it doesn't matter what industry they go to, that just doesn't happen. Who puts that idea in peoples heads and why?
I blame celebrities, and the mass populace's confusing fascination with them. I also blame the popular press, for preying off of this strange trend just to make a quick buck.
An indie band writes a few decent songs, and manages to sign a record deal. Three months later, their songs are being played three or four times a day on every radio station, they are leaving on their first nationwide concert tour, and the marketing machine is in full swing. They are now "celebrities" and their story becomes the inspiration for hundreds of thousands of aspiring garage musicians. "If they could do it, so could we!"
What the starry-eyed youngsters don't see is the hard work and years of indie-scene playing at crappy gigs that the band originally went through. They also don't realize that the exposure and success is more the result of the whims of a major record label and the marketing dollars they committed to their latest "hit." At the end of the day, celebrities are created, cultivated, and pruned by businesses. There may be talent there at the beginning, but the talent isn't what's being showcased or rewarded.
And lets be honest. The game industry doesn't have the kind of "celebrities" that other industries have promoted. Game designers and developers don't get ridiculous monetary contracts. With the current state of the industry, the talented and experienced designers are burning out and leaving, while the corporations are hiring cheaper, starry-eyed youngsters to replace them. (or just outsourcing to other countries) Video games have never enjoyed this kind of notoriety, and with the current direction of big-budget development, probably never will.
A bit of a simplification. I wasn't necessarily going there with the whole music recording industry analogy. But fundamentally...yeah. The Guitar Hero phenomenon helped bring video games widespread acceptance as an entertainment medium. It could easily be argued that they paved the way for the success of the Wii. And they are probably responsible for equating video games with celebrity in the minds of many of their fans.
But regardless, is it really that bad to have big dreams and ambitions? I've always believed that having some sort of a purpose is a good thing; as long as it drives one to learn and develop, even completely unrealistic goals might have some value. I for one, would rather have my dreams brutally shattered in front of my eyes, than live with the awareness that I have never tried.
That said, I am well aware that this video is aimed at a very specfic group of people who want to become developers. The people that the video portrays however have a low chance at succeeding at anything because they fail to realise the importance of hard work.
But I guess that life's a challenge and we all want to get the highscore. Ugh, guess I had spent way too much time playing games when I was younger.
Optimism, idealism, and enthusiasm are not in and of themselves bad things. We could actually use more of all of those elements in these trying times. It is just important not to allow them to cloud your judgement, or blind you to the realities of the world around you.
I would look to my personal experiences for an example. I don't work in the professional game industry, and never have. The closest I ever came was a second phone interview for a position at Cheyenne Mountain entertainment. I didn't get the job, and a month or so later got a steady job at a web-design company. About a year after that Cheyenne Mountain imploded, and declared bankruptcy. I read horror stories on-line about employees having worked for months without pay before being let go. If I had actually gotten that job, I would have probably ended up in a worse situation than I ended up in. As it stands, I was able to learn a lot more about the technical side of web design and internet coding at the job I found, and I had a decent salary and no dropped paychecks.
But through all of that I have never relinquished my dream of designing games. I've just taken a bit more realistic and practical approach to it. I scaled most of my design ideas down to the level where it would be possible for one person to develop them. I actively went out and took a semester of programming at my local community college. I continued to practice my programming in my free time, and since then I was able to construct and complete at least two Flash games, as well as numerous technical prototypes. Now I am working on my own cross-platform game framework using OpenGL, and I am reasonably hopeful that I will be able to publish my first iPhone app before the end of the year. And I still have a solid 9-5 that pays the bills.
It is a much less ambitious route. And in some ways it is longer and harder. But the rigors of the industry do not necessarily preclude someone from creating video games.
Go to GDC, Find the info you need from those with smiles on their 8 years deep face.
This is a disease. Leave now and start your Brawl character and do not look back. Learn about the industry at GDC and talk to trusted friends.
Start your Brawl Character today. Right now. Ignore the video. Its 15% shop-talk comedy, X% subjective-truth, and 90% pessimism/negativity.
Stop hand-shaking. Translate it into something positive for the people who truly don't know, yet.
Yes, you did. That's one of the many reasons why there's an EDIT button though. Edit that dang rascal next time instead of making an even more rascal-like post about it!