WOW! That really sucks dude! Sorry to hear that.. I hope you're doing okay. Coincidently, theres been recruiters calling around Vancouver for Microsoft during January and February. I got called too, but they were from Insight Global. Even though I accepted, they never got back to me with my questions and to update me on acquiring a working visa
There not gonna get back to you, I was contacted by them to work on Forza 3 along time ago i did my interview and everything.
once they figured out i was Canadian didn't hear back from them, which is weird cause all my info including where i live was on the main page of my web site and resume.
doesn't look like there a very professorial company.
wow this totally sucks to hear Jesse. That is some grade a bullshit. Did you ever even talk with the people from Microsoft or did you deal just with the people from aquent?
glad i went back to IT man, i can't handle moving for jobs anymore.. not that I was in the game industry long or really at all considering the game I worked on. but I am glad for stability and roots I can put down now, good luck man.
sucks man. I would contact a lawyer to see what your chances are of recovering expenses since they broke contract with multiple times. Also, I would see about if there is anyone you could contact through Microsoft. It makes me wonder if they're aware that their headhunting agency is writing checks for positions before they're available.
Yeah everyone. Pretty jacked. I'm going to be making a few phone calls tomorrow. I have a few people following up from internal Microsoft to find out the deal and what happened. I'm going to likely contact Aquent and see if they will cover my costs and see what they say. If I get blown off then I'll most likely call a lawyer and see what they have to say.
If it does get to that point than perhaps lost wages, emotional stress, etc will be added to the list. I am still quite annoyed by this behavior and I posted it here for all to see. Not to get pitty or anything but because this shit shouldn't happen to anyone in our industry or any other industry for that matter.
Hopefully when stuff like this does happen more people will start to step forward. Do I risk being blacklisted? Nah I really don't think so. I mean there is that slight chance but I think if that does happen it was more important that I share my story.
This shit sucks man. The Company should be getting blacklisted and someone there should be getting a *kicking for shit like this. I'd defo be seaking legal advice if nothing gets sorted. Small claims court or whatever the US version of that is, Judge Judy I think its called.
ouch. that sucks really sorry for you man. That's really lame business practice...I hope you know a lawyer or someone who can put their boot in their a**
I think it's good when you share such stories. Maybe eventually studios realize that their recruiting companies suck and drive away talent instead of attracting it. MS is probably too big to bother, but I assume it's still not optimal for them either to work with a shady agency.
Do I risk being blacklisted? Nah I really don't think so.
Sorry Jesse, but for telling your story I had to write your name on the blacklist. I did it in black permanent marker too, and you know that shit doesn't wash off.
I imagine a universal Blacklist to be this massive old scroll kept safe in a vault within a vault guarded by armed polar bears, and each name is written in virgin blood.
Anyway, assuming things go further south, what could you get by involving a lawyer in this?
on a serious note... i will be sending you 4 cases of beer via carrier pigeon to make you feel better
on a real serious note.... i, like everyone else here, really hates to hear that this has happened to you given your situation (which most of us are aware of). don't let it be swept under the rug and try to recoup your expenses in whatever way is most viable.
i commend you for not giving up on your passion. i know it has been extremely insane for you this past year and overwhelmingly difficult and stressful on yourself and your family. something's gotta give, and it will. you've been doing everything you can to make things happen. keep chugging along and something will change for the good.
The tragic thing is if you do make a fuss then they won't be inclined to "help" you out in the future. Even though it's someone in Aquent's fault.
Often freelance agencies are so damn eager to fill a spot with their client it all turns to shit and the contractee ends up footing the bill for moving.
I did some work with them last year and it all went OK. Sounds like someone in that agency got all excited and promised you something that didn't really exist.
Maybe a good tactic would be to write a calm letter to someone higher up and detail the whole story including names and copies of contracts. At least then they know the story objectively and might do something about it.
A bad approach would be to stay angry. Write the letter and move on to better things
My mind is blown by this... working in an industry where we're all 2 degrees of separation from each other easily leads to word being spread of companies treating hard working people like shit. I am appalled and sorry this happened to you man, on top of the stress of moving away from your family this was a kick to the balls. I hope you end up getting a ton of compensation by Aquent, because after a fuckup that bad, they should pay through the nose willingly in order to set this right.
Shit, Jesse, so sorry to hear that. You deserve a proper gig like no one else and I was really happy for you, when you posted about that job.
I really wish they get what's coming to them and you get properly compensated for all your troubles. Such audacity should not be tolerated.
I hope you get back on your feet soon. Dwelling on it and staying angry would hardly do you any good, but in no way, I think, you should let it slide.
So ok... Some of you guys have read some of this on facebook but I wanted to share this with the community JUST IN CASE some of you decide to go the same route I went.
I was offered a position as a contract 3d artist with Microsoft on the Kinect team working through Aquent as a contractor.
I was sent all the appropriate paper work, contract, info, etc. Signed, sealed and delivered. Returned said contract and paperwork to them.
Purchase plane ticket (since it's contract there is no relocation) BUT I thought this was a good chance at something special. So I spent the money for a ticket. Shipped my pc and stuff out via UPS ($265.00) and headed out.
Few nights before I left I was given a call from Aquent with news about my start date. It was pushed to the 3rd to make things easier on me and to let me relax a day after I got there. Awesome. THEN!!! They go on to tell me that the rate that was originally agreed upon and in the contract was less. $9.00 an hour less. That is an insane amount less. I was told that they would meet in the middle. Still a reasonable deal with what it was and I pushed it a little higher. Fine I was happy with that at least.
I fly out and contact Aquent the day after I get into town to figure out what the plan is. Oh well find out i'm not starting until the 7th, ouch... Then I get a call it's not till the 14th. Then I get another call that tells me they are waiting for the position to be approved and opened on Microsofts end and then they will put my name on it and send the paperwork back to Microsoft and then they have to approve it in the finance department.
HOLD UP!!! What? So I signed a contract for a job that technically didn't exist when it was offered to me, when I flew out there and when I arrived? Oh Awesome... This is getting better and better by the minute.
Get another call that afternoon. Oh still waiting. Call us back tomorrow (3rd) and everything will be taken care of.
I sleep on it and call the next day. Hey whats going on. Oh hey Jesse. Nothing new yet. Still waiting on them to open it up. BUT they are pushing it along at an accelerated pace so don't worry. Oh don't worry? I just flew out here on my own dime to a job that doesn't exist and might not exist? Oh yeah not worried at all.
Call them later that day. Ok well we still don't have a start date. It may be after the 14th but we aren't sure. OMG WTF!!! Who is running this place?
I express my concerns about the contract and start date and let them know I am extremely upset at this point. I hang up and read a book to blow off steam. I decide I'll give them till the next day to figure it out.
Called em in the morning. Nope no news. We are waiting on things to come back from Microsoft. Can you let me know when I would start if this gets the thumbs up today? Nope sorry Jesse no promises. We will call ya back in 30 minutes or so. Let us track this down.
I wait 2 hours and then buy a return plane ticket home, call UPS to have my packages diverted back home (at this point it is a $50 extra charge to do this, they have to go all the way to Seattle before they are returned to Maine and I won't get them back until the 14th at the earliest)
I then call Aquent to see what is going on. Like I thought nothing so I tell my agent (MOLLY) that I have decided to go back home and cut my losses before I hit a point of no return and have no where to go.
I get asked why I decided this and let them know about them breaking the original contract not once but twice on a few occasions and the position for which I was offered not really existing when I was offered it and arrived on site in a hurry like they requested.
She said that she would find out what is going on and get in touch. I never heard back.
I flew out this morning from Seattle back to Maine and now my computer will not be here for more than a week and I have no way to do contract work unless I use my wifes crappy laptop.
FUCKING AWESOME!!!!!
So yeah I know it is a long read and all but please share this with people so they know to beware. I have heard others have had great experiences but to treat someone like this is just bullshit. Industry veteran, noobie, whatever. You don't ever fucking do this to people.
Wow......O.O
You never for once thought that it was too good to be true and Microsoft isnt contacting you once for a contract? Or you never called Microsoft directly so you would have a better idea of what the entire Scene is going to be?
You just relied on Aquent assuming it to be the third party agency sucking off 10-20 bucks off the original price and giving you 9 bucks per hour?
Never bothered to check the background of the agency?
There is a huge reason many people do not get involved with the third party agencies.
You can bargain with them all you want, they would still keep the wage low to $15.00 max an hour and all they do is raise Their contract fee with the 1st party who is actually taking pretty much everyone from anywhere for their projects.
It is best to apply directly to the company unless you are completely new to the field. Even if you are completely new you would consider it 10 times before making a decision and playing safe through out the scene.
I am sorry to hear what happened to you. I really am.
It is best to sign the contract directly with the company you want to work for instead of relying on dumb fuck agencies who would not get you where you were suppose to be.
EDIT: This drama that you played your part in maybe new to you but it has been going on and off for many years.
holy crap man... Is it legal for them to make a contract for a gig that is not even approved or even exists? You would think people like this would do their work properly and offer a job that is in the market and that is actually a demand from MS. They actually told you to get there in a hurry and you did, only to put you on hold. It's shitty, specially when we thought you landed something that could lead you to something bigger. It's a shame. I hope that they do get back to you and compensate you. If not, best of luck with the lawyers.
I hope that you find some better gig that suits your skills better and they treat you with dignity and respect.
You never for once thought that it was too good to be true and Microsoft isnt contacting you once for a contract? Or you never called Microsoft directly so you would have a better idea of what the entire Scene is going to be?
You just relied on Aquent assuming it to be the third party agency sucking off 10-20 bucks off the original price and giving you 9 bucks per hour?
Never bothered to check the background of the agency?
There is a huge reason many people do not get involved with the third party agencies.
You can bargain with them all you want, they would still keep the wage low to $15.00 max an hour and all they do is raise Their contract fee with the 1st party who is actually taking pretty much everyone from anywhere for their projects.
It is best to apply directly to the company unless you are completely new to the field. Even if you are completely new you would consider it 10 times before making a decision and playing safe through out the scene.
I am sorry to hear what happened to you. I really am.
It is best to sign the contract directly with the company you want to work for instead of relying on dumb fuck agencies who would not get you where you were suppose to be.
EDIT: This drama that you played your part in maybe new to you but it has been going on and off for many years.
That's just it you can't contact MS directly for a contract. You can't cut out the middle man, if you try you will be bounced to Aquent. From MS's standpoint it makes sense to outsource headhunting, you pay for it when you need it and you're not on the hook for when you don't. It also keeps crap like this out of your legal department, just point the finger and move on. That doesn't mean contacting MS now after the fact to let them know how they're jerking around talent won't effect something, because I'm sure it will. If anyone is in a position to apply pressure to Aquent to change, its MS.
That sucks I was looking forward to hanging out, having some beers and shooting the shit...
Again, sorry to hear Jesse. Hopefully they will work something out with on your money spent. I've had friends in the past contract with them and no issues like this. But maybe things have changed over there. Just keep your head up. I'm sure something better will come up soon man.
Yeah I'll be forwarding this to some people at work today. I'll also be speaking with Molly and/or Carin at Aquent. As I said I've had no issues with them in the past 3yrs I've worked through them, but one bad experience can ruin everything.
As I said before, this isn't entirely Aquent's fault. MS has the supreme power here. My date shuffled a few times before I started back at Turn10 last March though not to the tune of 2 weeks. MS is really indecisive and wants to wait until the last moment to spend money on talent. My contract this time around pays less than I got on my last contract, but I'm doing a lot more work.
It's unfortunate that Aquent doesn't pay for relocation but thats just how they operate. I had to spend around $1200 of my own money to move here from Reno back in 2008, for which I was not reimbursed, either. If you decide to sue, I do wish you the best of luck. Trying to extract money from MS and it's partners will not be easy.
Hopefully with all of us getting the word out, something great will come out of this for you, Jesse.
You never for once thought that it was too good to be true and Microsoft isnt contacting you once for a contract? Or you never called Microsoft directly so you would have a better idea of what the entire Scene is going to be?
You just relied on Aquent assuming it to be the third party agency sucking off 10-20 bucks off the original price and giving you 9 bucks per hour?
Never bothered to check the background of the agency?
There is a huge reason many people do not get involved with the third party agencies.
You can bargain with them all you want, they would still keep the wage low to $15.00 max an hour and all they do is raise Their contract fee with the 1st party who is actually taking pretty much everyone from anywhere for their projects.
It is best to apply directly to the company unless you are completely new to the field. Even if you are completely new you would consider it 10 times before making a decision and playing safe through out the scene.
I am sorry to hear what happened to you. I really am.
It is best to sign the contract directly with the company you want to work for instead of relying on dumb fuck agencies who would not get you where you were suppose to be.
EDIT: This drama that you played your part in maybe new to you but it has been going on and off for many years.
Ok I'll make it more clear.
I interviewed (over the phone) directly with Microsoft. I have several people that even talked in person and over email with the person I interviewed with about my skills and abilities. They liked what they heard. Microsoft goes through Aquent as it's easier for them in the end.
I have heard good things about them in the past from other people that have worked through them.
So no I did not just rely on Aquent. I had a great conversation with all of my expectations and the job with Microsofts Art Director on the project so that along with everything else I expected a totally different outcome.
I'm not junior to this stuff. I know how to approach things and what to do. I don't just jump into something for the sake of jumping into it. I did a lot of research and I will admit it was a slight gamble but one worth taking. In the end I got fucked and that is why I shared this story. If it would have been my fault I would have sucked it up and just moved along, but this fell in someone elses hands.
Also it wasn't for $15.00 an hour. That would be absurd beyond belief.
That's fucked up! I got a call from a recruiter once saying I had some job only to tell me a week later that I didn't, but it didn't make me fly anywhere and lose money so it wasn't a biggy. Is someone going to refund you some money or at least pay for your ticket when (and hopefully it does) gets worked out?
Sorry to hear about this Jesse. This sort of thing happened to me.. though not to this extent, but it seems contracts often don't mean shit. You'll land on your feet though.. Everything happens for a reason.
Thats really shitty, hope you land on your feet. Thats one of my worst nightmares, they must realise how much it takes to relocate somewhere, you got all the money and stress that goes with it aswell. Contracts are tricky buggers though, they can end your contract and make amendments to them at any time. It always makes me giggle when they want you to sign to contract amendments and then Im like 'what happens if I dont sign it?' always think its the end of my job though so I sign seriously good luck to you though, Im sure you will land on your feet, very talented artist
Isn't microsoft not doing so well recently aswell though, cutting loads of artists from rare and other studios. I blame Kinnect!!!!!!!!!!
Man, when it rains it pours. I'm sorry to hear about that crap. When you first made the post about getting the contract I figured Score one for the good guys! But instead it turns out this way. I really hope this works out right.
Hey man, glad they are talking to you and trying to figure all this stuff out. Keep your head up and hopefully something even better will come from it!
It is best to sign the contract directly with the company you want to work for instead of relying on dumb fuck agencies who would not get you where you were suppose to be.
Completely unrealistic. Nearly every company uses some kind of HR agency.
I'm glad you're posting this publically. Too many of these kind of severe agent fuckups never get shared in full because people are afraid to burn bridges or even seem dangerous to companies ('everything we do wrong will come out').
+1
Sorry that it turned out costly to you Jesse. Have a good look over your contract from Aquent and see what position you're in to claim costs.
It was a major breakdown in communication and I think they know this and are trying to fix things. I am not one to easily forgive and forget based upon my past with companies and how they treat people but I honestly feel that they feel bad about this situation and what happened and are trying to correct it and with the experiences others have had with them I feel that this may be just my bad luck. Does it suck any less? Of course not but I think it is a step in the right direction and will improve relationships.
Did they mention anything about reimbursing you or is it just a "won't happen again!" sort of thing?
By the end of the update you wrote I thought you were going to say you got the job after all. That's poor treatment on their behalf and I can personally relate to some of what you said
Hope you land something kosher soon.
They don't reimburse. I spent $1200 moving from Reno to Redmond in 2008 and I never got 1 cent back. That's just how they operate.
You situation is different though. He's no referring to relocation fees, but rather deal to correct a bad deal. I would agree, that they probably won't come up with anything, but if they think it will help eliminate possible litigation, then they may. It's just out of curiosity that he's asking
Replies
There not gonna get back to you, I was contacted by them to work on Forza 3 along time ago i did my interview and everything.
once they figured out i was Canadian didn't hear back from them, which is weird cause all my info including where i live was on the main page of my web site and resume.
doesn't look like there a very professorial company.
Cheers,
Arman
If it does get to that point than perhaps lost wages, emotional stress, etc will be added to the list. I am still quite annoyed by this behavior and I posted it here for all to see. Not to get pitty or anything but because this shit shouldn't happen to anyone in our industry or any other industry for that matter.
Hopefully when stuff like this does happen more people will start to step forward. Do I risk being blacklisted? Nah I really don't think so. I mean there is that slight chance but I think if that does happen it was more important that I share my story.
*harsh talking to and a written warning.
and thats exactly the reason why you make em
i cannot understand how such a thing can possibly happen ? i mean, it should be clear to them what a contract is ?
I think it's good when you share such stories. Maybe eventually studios realize that their recruiting companies suck and drive away talent instead of attracting it. MS is probably too big to bother, but I assume it's still not optimal for them either to work with a shady agency.
- BoBo
Sorry Jesse, but for telling your story I had to write your name on the blacklist. I did it in black permanent marker too, and you know that shit doesn't wash off.
Anyway, assuming things go further south, what could you get by involving a lawyer in this?
a little PC meme to cheer you up
on a serious note... i will be sending you 4 cases of beer via carrier pigeon to make you feel better
on a real serious note.... i, like everyone else here, really hates to hear that this has happened to you given your situation (which most of us are aware of). don't let it be swept under the rug and try to recoup your expenses in whatever way is most viable.
i commend you for not giving up on your passion. i know it has been extremely insane for you this past year and overwhelmingly difficult and stressful on yourself and your family. something's gotta give, and it will. you've been doing everything you can to make things happen. keep chugging along and something will change for the good.
I hope things work out for you man!
I hope everything turns out okay dude!!
Often freelance agencies are so damn eager to fill a spot with their client it all turns to shit and the contractee ends up footing the bill for moving.
I did some work with them last year and it all went OK. Sounds like someone in that agency got all excited and promised you something that didn't really exist.
Maybe a good tactic would be to write a calm letter to someone higher up and detail the whole story including names and copies of contracts. At least then they know the story objectively and might do something about it.
A bad approach would be to stay angry. Write the letter and move on to better things
I really wish they get what's coming to them and you get properly compensated for all your troubles. Such audacity should not be tolerated.
I hope you get back on your feet soon. Dwelling on it and staying angry would hardly do you any good, but in no way, I think, you should let it slide.
Cheer up, man
Wow......O.O
You never for once thought that it was too good to be true and Microsoft isnt contacting you once for a contract? Or you never called Microsoft directly so you would have a better idea of what the entire Scene is going to be?
You just relied on Aquent assuming it to be the third party agency sucking off 10-20 bucks off the original price and giving you 9 bucks per hour?
Never bothered to check the background of the agency?
There is a huge reason many people do not get involved with the third party agencies.
You can bargain with them all you want, they would still keep the wage low to $15.00 max an hour and all they do is raise Their contract fee with the 1st party who is actually taking pretty much everyone from anywhere for their projects.
It is best to apply directly to the company unless you are completely new to the field. Even if you are completely new you would consider it 10 times before making a decision and playing safe through out the scene.
I am sorry to hear what happened to you. I really am.
It is best to sign the contract directly with the company you want to work for instead of relying on dumb fuck agencies who would not get you where you were suppose to be.
EDIT: This drama that you played your part in maybe new to you but it has been going on and off for many years.
I hope that you find some better gig that suits your skills better and they treat you with dignity and respect.
That sucks I was looking forward to hanging out, having some beers and shooting the shit...
I had to log back in to personally tell you that I have. Why?
As I said before, this isn't entirely Aquent's fault. MS has the supreme power here. My date shuffled a few times before I started back at Turn10 last March though not to the tune of 2 weeks. MS is really indecisive and wants to wait until the last moment to spend money on talent. My contract this time around pays less than I got on my last contract, but I'm doing a lot more work.
It's unfortunate that Aquent doesn't pay for relocation but thats just how they operate. I had to spend around $1200 of my own money to move here from Reno back in 2008, for which I was not reimbursed, either. If you decide to sue, I do wish you the best of luck. Trying to extract money from MS and it's partners will not be easy.
Hopefully with all of us getting the word out, something great will come out of this for you, Jesse.
Ok I'll make it more clear.
I interviewed (over the phone) directly with Microsoft. I have several people that even talked in person and over email with the person I interviewed with about my skills and abilities. They liked what they heard. Microsoft goes through Aquent as it's easier for them in the end.
I have heard good things about them in the past from other people that have worked through them.
So no I did not just rely on Aquent. I had a great conversation with all of my expectations and the job with Microsofts Art Director on the project so that along with everything else I expected a totally different outcome.
I'm not junior to this stuff. I know how to approach things and what to do. I don't just jump into something for the sake of jumping into it. I did a lot of research and I will admit it was a slight gamble but one worth taking. In the end I got fucked and that is why I shared this story. If it would have been my fault I would have sucked it up and just moved along, but this fell in someone elses hands.
Also it wasn't for $15.00 an hour. That would be absurd beyond belief.
I sent you a PM...could you read it over and get back to me?
Thanks
B
Thanks for sharing!
Isn't microsoft not doing so well recently aswell though, cutting loads of artists from rare and other studios. I blame Kinnect!!!!!!!!!!
Next person Aquent does this to drop me a PM, we're right across the lake from MS.
which planet / time period do you live in Nitewalkr?
And you have? Seems you have a wealth of experience in this matter. Aquent is a world famous Agency.
Total opposite of what you say here is true.
Nonsense. Most people on their first gig are half way on a bus before they get past "come work here" on the email.
Completely unrealistic. Nearly every company uses some kind of HR agency.
Sorry that it turned out costly to you Jesse. Have a good look over your contract from Aquent and see what position you're in to claim costs.
scumbag shit I say.
Did they mention anything about reimbursing you or is it just a "won't happen again!" sort of thing?
They don't reimburse. I spent $1200 moving from Reno to Redmond in 2008 and I never got 1 cent back. That's just how they operate.
Hope you land something kosher soon.
You situation is different though. He's no referring to relocation fees, but rather deal to correct a bad deal. I would agree, that they probably won't come up with anything, but if they think it will help eliminate possible litigation, then they may. It's just out of curiosity that he's asking