LOLOL. Its funny to read through these comments every time a COD game is coming out. It always somehow manages to pit people against each other in a verbal deathmatch.
Hope you guys enjoy it for what it is, a fun game. It was a blast working on it. Cant wait to play some MP with the rest of the world when its released.
I'm a big fan of the CoD series and more so since the Modern Warfare portion was released. To me they're great examples of the "perfect" video game. I don't mean they're perfect games, but rather they hit a lot of notes most games aim for: High in fun action, narrative is good enough to push you along, the visuals are great and the replay ability is extreme.
I don't blame Activision for releasing a new one everyday. (A company has a solid product they want to release annually? The shame!) If they can deliver each time on those notes that I think make perfect games then more power to them. And if I dont agree with their choice of releasing the latest one or that it looks like it's not for me, there's this amazing ability I have as a consumer I think a lot of gamers over look so that they continue arguing or hating: Choice. It's my choice to buy the game or to ignore it. Its my choice to support the developer/publisher responsible and fuck anyone who says otherwise. Who am I to belittle others for buying something they would enjoy? A lot of the gaming populous have growing up to do when it comes to verbalizing their distaste for a game, especially when they feel the need to comment on those who enjoy those games.
I'm kinda interested in who youre refering to or whether youre just commenting in general on the attitudes of some who criticise others tastes, adam.
When you talk of the franchises replayability i dont think thats really... fair? I'm not quite sure how to word this as there are people that still consistently play COD2 / MW1 and while this is a testament to how well designed the game is i think it also functions like a double edged sword in this scenario.
Seeing as we have phrases like "if it aint broke dont fix it" - but what? its ok to add some tinsel and resell it (yes, thats me being a cunt). But seriously, it would be interesting to have some statistics for the sake of this argument, i wonder how many people complete the singleplayer and if theyre buying it for the multiplayer i have to wonder why when the core experience will stay predominantly the same.
Lets say, hypothetically, that the % that buy the game for the multiplayer exceeds that of the singleplayer (60% of the people who got that game on steam completed the singleplayer part of MW2, 50% for Black OPS) then couldnt they be pleased with map packs or community content? Looking at the completion stats isn't that indicative of motive though, as i valued MW2 as it was and bought it knowing id have friends to play the multiplayer with, the singleplayer acted as a bonus that i completed when no one else was around. But the problem i can see from sequals is that it can and will seperate the multiplayer community...
Its funny, my hairdresser plays COD games (hes never completed the singleplayer for any) and he talks a lot about how his clan will discuss amongst themselves whether or not they should switch games or carry on paying for their server. It seems like a weird problem to have as they play S&D without the noisy killstreaks so their experience will remain rather similar from game to game.
tl;dr
I enjoy the game, it is fun and well designed... so the core multiplayer in sequals will be too.
Do people buy the sequals in fear that the community in the previous game will split/dilute?
Would the core playerbase be as high / less spikey if there were no sequals only community/developer map packs? (TF2 numbers?)
I dont really want to condemn others choices, its interesting to look at things outside the box though and consider the knock on effects that it causes. (i.e. the way a game becoming an esport influences the playerbase, although a minority that will still be a group in itself)
Yeah gotta agree. All this complaining and hating in here just gives me a headache. Modern Warfare is fun, I spent a lot of time with 2 and there's very little I'd change about it other than simply wanting more.
Pior, I wouldn't get Black Ops, it's ok, but only a 7/10 compared to MW2. At least don't pay 30 or something for it.
completely agree, MW3 looks really good and i cant wait to play it, and some of the new additions look awesome.
agree about Black Ops, its fun but isnt great and can be pretty frustrating at times
Amazed how well its running on my ancient (and dying fast) laptop, can run everything on high! Great job Sledgehammer and IW. Its very fun so far too, bout an hour in I guess. If you are interested in the SP stay off Kotaku, they are spoiling everything the pricks.
Hey - thanks for the advice! Ill probably pick up BO only if I find it for super cheap.
As for MW3 - so awesome!! Butter smooth, nice and fast ... Big props for the borderless mode too!
After having to deal with the webbased Battlog/Origin clutter it is so refreshing to be simply able to launch a game and enter lobbies from there. Congrats to all involved - a great, polished and straightforward product!
Is it? Why remake what is already created to a decent level? Surely its good development sense, considering the fact that they would also have been under pressure because of the change-ups with developers. Don't see how that makes it MW 2.5 :poly142:
picked it up and totally agree it feels like mw 2.5, not because of re-use but how closely it sticks to the COD formula with little changes. the singpleayer is over the top explosions and stuff which is pretty awesome but didnt leave my jaw hanging like uncharted did. multiplayer is familiar and fun, dont know how long it will grab me though, with each new COD i tend to play less and less multiplayer.
the visuals look nice and densely populated. the lighting is starting to look a little dated on somethings, mostly black shadows and lacking bounce but it still looks fantastic in most cases. I will be interested to see what they consider "next-gen" call of duty on new engine, sureley they have to after bf3 being released.
I don't understand what you guys are complaining about with it feels like COD. Well yeah it is COD. It takes place immediately after MW2 and thus if they made HUGE changes it would be broken wouldn't it? Did the Lord of the Rings movies drastically change from movie to movie besides location and the arc of the story? Did 1 all of a sudden change on filming style? No. Why would you change something that has been proven to work and work well for them? For the sake of change?
I find it hilarious that people rip on Call of Duty games but go nuts over new Zelda games, street fighter or whatever else has been done over and over.
Call of Duty at its heart is over the top and super action packed. I don't think they are going to change that for the last part of the series in this arc. You are dropped back into the middle of the war with Russia still attacking New York. Should it start any other way?
Picked this up last night on the x-box and only got take a small crack at the multiplayer and I love it so far. Gives me everything I want out of call of duty game (although I miss the black ops dolphin dive which made capping flags epic). There is a pretty healthy amount of maps right out of the gate and most play very well even if a bit hectic. Art is as solid as ever and I love the gun variety and new weapon progression system. Some of the newer toys are really interesting as well and add alot of fun.
Such a huge step backwards after BLOPS, it just feels bare... The maps are god damn ugly as shit and awful to play as well. I'm talking MP here. I can't really comment on the SP because I only played a few hours and that wouldn't be fair... Granted in those few hours I beat it on Vet, lol, but COD's always had a piss poor fart and you'll miss it SP.
I don't mind them re-using media, thats fine. But my God, it looks dated, plus it plays worse than BLOPS, has less content, and STILL has hacks/problems that MW2 had...
Amazingly poor show, how its getting so many top marks is beyond me.
EDIT: As a side note, I've put in about 6 hours to MP so far, and put in hundreds in MW2/BLOPS. So I'm not going into it as some new guy moaning its not BF3 or whatever, I'm a solid fan. I just think its time they bit the bullet and saw they can't keep on with the same old shit all the time. Granted they can't change the game too much, but this really does feel a step abckwards from MW2 even, never mind BLOPS.
EDIT2: One last whinge... I want to kill whoever thought IW.Net was a good idea... Its the worst idea ever, even, and having Dedicated servers ONLY on unranked is terrible. They play sooooooooooo well and soooooooooo smooth, even in MW3, to go back to that mess is just... Ugh...
Such a huge step backwards after BLOPS, it just feels bare... The maps are god damn ugly as shit and awful to play as well. I'm talking MP here. I can't really comment on the SP because I only played a few hours and that wouldn't be fair... Granted in those few hours I beat it on Vet, lol, but COD's always had a piss poor fart and you'll miss it SP.
I don't mind them re-using media, thats fine. But my God, it looks dated, plus it plays worse than BLOPS, has less content, and STILL has hacks/problems that MW2 had...
Amazingly poor show, how its getting so many top marks is beyond me.
I'll join in the battle. Take everything this guy said and make it the opposite and you'll have my take on the game.
Why fix what ain't broken I say. Moody said it perfectly a couple comments above me.
Thanks IW and Sledge and those others that had a part in making the game.
IT'S AWESOME, and the top marks it's getting are well deserved, as will be evident when the sales numbers and reviews come rolling in.
haters gunna hate... allllll day long. Now keep proving me right loves.
What I dont understand is, they solidify their multiplayer model and thats all fine and dandy...
But they release a new game every year... and if its the same model then why are we paying $60 for the same guns and a mappack, not to mention the maps are getting smaller and more crammed.
It was bad enough when they took that leap to sell a map pack for 1600($15) ms points, once they knew people will pay that much we'll never see an 800 ms point map pack again.
They're probably laughing back at the office. MW3 brought in $1.2Billion IIRC. They're making bank.
I like the why fix what ain't broke mantra. Thats why I'm still rocking a seven year old watch. I mean, why buy one thats the exact same thing, when this one still works fine
I'm one of the few that LOVES COD MP, and people I know call me an idiot for enjoying it. But its great fun, it really is. But after BLOPS, how can you not see this as a step backwards? The whole perk/streak system is rubbish, the weapons all feel bad, the hacks that were fixed in BLOPS but broke in MW2, are now back in MW3... Its obvious they used the MW2 engine and not the BLOPS one, but even then, why not fix the shit they knew was wrong...?
You can argue they do the same with Fifa and stuff, and thats true. But every other year, they make a HUGE change to the game. The graphics take a massive leap, and they add huge gameplay related changes that sometimes work, sometimes don't, but always change it up. Yet here we are, 4-5 years after the fact, with the same game we had then, even the same bloody graphics...
Its just........ What?
EDIT: Oh and, because I'm a dick, I will say it.................. £40 for a fucking stats trackign system that was free in BLOPS and is free in the games direct competition... Ballsy... Stupid, but ballsy...
I haven't played MP yet so I can't comment on that yet. I enjoyed Black Ops probably the most out of the series yet and can agree with Odium on his Fifa comparison as COD gets the same hate Madden gets. It's the same shit. Well yes it is but no it isn't. It's not just a map pack. As far as Madden goes / like Fifa EA tries to do different things with the franchise for the fans. Graphics have steadily improved little by little. The updated grass system in Madden this year was pretty damn awesome.
I would like to see a new engine or some MAJOR improvements done going forward but chances are we wont.
Liked the single-player and the graphics are pretty nice, not as good as BF3 but that has to do more with lighting than anything else.
but god damn are the multiplayer maps butt ugly looks like a 1st generation Xbox game was not impressed at all art wise, they really need to get a new engine.
dont really have any comments about the gameplay, its COD you either hate it or love it.
The dismissive attitude towards negative comments regarding game design is really starting to frustrate me. There will be cases where "opinions" are overly aggressive or negative without a fully fledged out arguement behind it, but even in this case you dont have to be close minded to them, righting it off as personal taste or "haters gon hate", consider what may be valid about it.
Consider;
The game is building on rock SOLID foundations, if theyre not straying too far from the formula... you should enjoy how it plays, its a no brainer.
Does that warrent a full pricetag for mappacks and gimmicks (gimmicks that the people who get the most life out of the game - on pc - will turn off, that or play COD2 or MW1)?
If you review this game in a vacuum its not surprising that it gets top marks as theyre good at what they do, but thankfully we dont live in a vacuum, right? Then again, im sure looking at games like that has its merits, allows it to be broken down to its components easier.
On a forum such as this though, i really wish we could get more interesting discussion on gameplay and breaking down what can be done better (nothings perfect) without the constant circle jerking. Oh good job art team xD cant w8 2 play ur game, it looks amzing... save this shit for youtube comments and try to actually consider ways to improve the games? Hell, if theres a place that could have valid feedback on things it should be here, right?
I really doubt some smucks on Youtube, let alone the art guys, look at what is being said over there. If you have opinion, share it somewhere useful, like here. Youtube comment system is the last place anyone should be allowed to have an opinion, lets alone share it there.
Well, the main problem I see with this is that many of the reused assets didn't even get a texture upgrade.
Most them look like a straight CGTexture slaps, run under an automatic tile generator, before being thrown in with a few good measures of decal. In one of the earlier iterations of COD, I remember them specifically putting in a Tesselation system for the Ocean just so it would look good, the lack of any 'extra' effort being put here is bothersome.
I don't expect a graphical overhaul, but maybe a more robust Post-Process, where we have more variety then Bloom and Brown would be grand.
As for gameplay. Not a fan.
The limitation of the FOV to around 60 is ludicrous. I need atleast a 80-90 to play. I get motion sick really quickly when limited in my view unnaturally.
Black Ops had the perfect level up system, you play, you unlock. Now they're asking me to play with a weapon, to unlock other weapons, play with those at level 1, as well what cosmetics I can apply to it. More digital thread-milling.
The shotguns are still too Hollywood. In BF3, you can snipe with Shotguns (which is pretty silly), and now here, you can't even shoot at arms length in someones groin area and get a kill (which is again, silly, unless you have a sawed off shotty).
Juggernaut package is BS, infact the new strike package system over all is pretty broken. Everyone is going to be support, no question about that. Maximum rewards, even when getting penalties.
Someone at the studio must hate teamwork, because so far, everything about teamwork doesn't exist. Even the most basic thing like Kill Assist is based upon pity. I'm essentially being given pity point, sometimes for my own kills for killing or helping team-mates. The least I can get is (for the dog tag game) someone kind of extra point system for being helpful overall to my team. Why am I getting pity points for Kill Assist, while at the same time, my team-mates can steal my downed foes enemies Dog-Tags?
Overall, not impressed. I was hoping for the Developers to realize that the entire 'Rich get Richer, poor will struggle' scheme that the game had since MW2 was a bad idea, and maybe implementing at least a virtual, fake slingshot feeling to people who aren't exactly popping mad skills, so that they have fight chance, at least in terms of morale.
Honestly, if I get my hands on whoever made this stupid industry decision of "Rich get Richer and Poor get Poorer" scheme for every single FPS out there, there will be hell to pay, and the fact that MW3 is taking it to new heights doesn't help.
Well, the main problem I see with this is that many of the reused assets didn't even get a texture upgrade.
Most them look like a straight CGTexture slaps, run under an automatic tile generator, before being thrown in with a few good measures of decal. In one of the earlier iterations of COD, I remember them specifically putting in a Tesselation system for the Ocean just so it would look good, the lack of any 'extra' effort being put here is bothersome.
Not the biggest fan of the series, but I gotta say, for what it's worth, mw3 is my favourite since the original mordern warefare. Had some great environments / story beats in there to keep it exciting, and overall, big thumbs up to art guys, some fantastic (and over the top) scenario's that really made it all that much more exciting with some great art attached to it.
Maybe not the most mind boggling graphics out there, but in the end, I say the quality of execution was awesome to see.
Edit: And not to make Jackwhat pissed off at me for saying "gg on art", I was just more impressed at how well (or how I SEE it that is) the art/ environments were executed as whole. It just looks like whoever was leading the art direction seemed to care about how each section felt (or a good chunk of it anyways) which was refreshing to me.
I could be wrong and it could just be "recycled" art, but you have to admit, playing through the game with that MUCH destruction, it would be dumb of you not to re-use assets if they fit within the environment / story.
I could be wrong and it could just be "recycled" art, but you have to admit, playing through the game with that MUCH destruction, it would be dumb of you not to re-use assets if they fit within the environment / story.
I know sometimes the time constraints forces us to rush some stuff, but some assets just popped out so much for me (I know I'm being a stickler for micro details here, but hey):
Even when I look at the bigger picture stuff. Some of it can be pretty at times, but generally, just all feels dated =/. After playing RAGE, nothing can beat the big picture moments in there despite its shortcoming in texture res and such.
Juggernaut package is BS, infact the new strike package system over all is pretty broken. Everyone is going to be support, no question about that. Maximum rewards, even when getting penalties.
Overall, not impressed. I was hoping for the Developers to realize that the entire 'Rich get Richer, poor will struggle' scheme that the game had since MW2 was a bad idea, and maybe implementing at least a virtual, fake slingshot feeling to people who aren't exactly popping mad skills, so that they have fight chance, at least in terms of morale.
What? So they add the support strike system (which protip: not everyone is using, because I'd rather drop reapers on you all day than the rare escort package) to avoid the rich get richer syndrome, and you say its too good, but also miss that it helps your team and helps even things out?
If you can't get 18 kills in a match to call in your escort package you weren't going to be doing any winning without killstreaks in the game.
I do agree with you Jobye that at times it can "look" like they got lazy or maybe just forgot about some props, but considering the scale of each environment, and more importantly (in my opinion) the overall "big picture" of each map, I'm ok with some pieces of the environment not being super up to par.
I'm also of the mindset that the overall environment as a whole is whats most important, instead of focusing on 1 piece and spending a day making that trash can look AMAZING (just an example... don't spend a day on a trash can :P ), I instead would rather focus on making that alley way or side street that the trashcan is apart of look just as good.
But this is all personal opinion, but for some reason I was really impressed at how well they managed to nail down the "bigger picture". Personally I would like to work in that kind of style, since most of my experience so far is mainly focused on a prop by prop basis.
And also... just to put fuel to the fire, how long did these guys get to work on it? Considering that Activision is releasing a COD game once a year (or more), I think I'm more ok with seeing older props being re-used in "newer" games, just make sure to be smart with there use is all.
Really, people hating on the environment and graphics have a bit of a clouded mind, I was playing some campaign yesterday and for the second day in a row people that watched me (some non-gamers) said "wow that looks incredibly good/realistic", or remarking about details like the sheets of paper flying around when you hit a box full of paper, etc...
I don't know, this whole it looks "dated" "crap" whatever is a bit silly, I haven't played BF3 but judging from the Ultra quality highres screens that got sent around at work, I'd rate MW3 as 8/10 if BF3 is 10/10... Far from "dated crap".
Not gonna buy MW3, didn't buy Black Ops because i only play MP and frankly after playing my brothers blackops and housemates MW3 i don't fancy paying to do more of the same. Still enjoy MW2 multiplayer, it's still plenty active enough, so why change?
I don't understand the whole "more of the same" type comments.
I love Cod, and more of the same is perfect.
I like burgers, I like MacDonald's. I have a good feeling knowing that when i go get a bigmac it's always the same despite going to a diferent place everytime.
But it's cool knowing that that nice taste that i crave will be same the same and i wont get disapointed.
It's like listening to a music group. I love foo fighters and they consistently make awesome new rock records each time. And that's what i love about them. Knowing that the next album won't be like a electro beatzzz dub whatever.
Now, if you got sick of burgers, go try something else, there's lots of diferent food/games going arround for everyone.
With this being said, whenever a burger game comes out, and adds a special new ingredient, make the whole thing really special
Pedro, what if when you ate the burger the burger didnt... you know, get consumed? So you still had the burger in your possession - do you now go out and add more burgers to your arsenal or keep the current one you have?
Pedro, what if when you ate the burger the burger didnt... you know, get consumed? So you still had the burger in your possession - do you now go out and add more burgers to your arsenal or keep the current one you have?
I'm not trying to piss anyone off, but do correct me if im wrong... that is a bad analogy for it?
I've written two relatively long posts trying to dicuss ideas and reasons why people continue to buy games like MW2 but no one has really challenged any of the things i've brought up, so perhaps i should just give up.
Edit so as not to bump;
"Having said that, I love everything about it. I've got 13 hours of MP over two days of playing MP. I lose track of time playing it, which is the ultimate sign of a good game, in my opinion."
I'll say it for at least the 3rd time, the idea behind these comments isn't wrong but it bothers me in that its almost an obvious statement. The game is really well made, so when you're playing a sequel thats honed its craft in the past, then its obvious the new itterations will be equally as tight.
I see COD MW1 almost in the same light as Quake 3 - theyre such well made games and do their "thing" so well, its almost an area that doesn't NEED change. Thing is, you don't see a quake sequal / dm game every year, adding in level up systems and RPG splash damage perks.
I completely understand the complaints folks have about MW3 not making significant improvements over MW2. MW2 was a big leap over MW1. Black Ops tried a lot of different things (although it sucked on PC, largely due to their dedicated servers and the implementation therein), but MW3 is a direct sequel to MW2 with relatively little changed.
Having said that, I love everything about it. I've got 13 hours of MP over two days of playing MP. I lose track of time playing it, which is the ultimate sign of a good game, in my opinion.
My belief at this time is that they have hit a wall, however - I don't think they can make a Modern Warfare better than this one. They can do something different, but I don't think they can do something better (outside of tightening up the graphics, which are definitely showing their console origins and the asset re-use from 3+ games - they're all fantastically composed, but there is a lack of consistency in environment assets).
So with that conceit, I think they have to put Modern Warfare to bed, which ironically (it's my understanding) is what the IW falling out stemmed from - Activision not wanting to do that.
I don't understand the whole "more of the same" type comments.
I love Cod, and more of the same is perfect.
I like burgers, I like MacDonald's. I have a good feeling knowing that when i go get a bigmac it's always the same despite going to a diferent place everytime.
But it's cool knowing that that nice taste that i crave will be same the same and i wont get disapointed.
It's like listening to a music group. I love foo fighters and they consistently make awesome new rock records each time. And that's what i love about them. Knowing that the next album won't be like a electro beatzzz dub whatever.
Now, if you got sick of burgers, go try something else, there's lots of diferent food/games going arround for everyone.
With this being said, whenever a burger game comes out, and adds a special new ingredient, make the whole thing really special
I'm not in any way saying it's a bad thing that it's more of the same. But when i can get the exact same experience without spending more money i feel no reason to change.
Your burger analogy doesn't quite work in my opinion. What if you made a one time payment for unlimited burgers at McD's? Would you then pay to get burgers that taste the same from somewhere else? I doubt it.
And that's the thing. I'm not sick of multiplayer CoD, no matter how much it makes me want to throw my tv out the window in uncontrollable rage (spawn tubes anyone?!) i don't get tired of it even after 30+ days MP game time (should i even admit that :poly142:). But i just don't feel the need to get the new game that plays the same.
MW2 was actually my first CoD game, i then bought WaW and Cod4 second hand because a) i wanted to play zombies with mates and b) cod4 had a huge amount of hype and i wanted to give it a try
This post probably makes no sense because i'm so hungry i could cry.
i have never been more bored than playing the mw3 single player. i actually yawned. still, it's nice to see a re-imagining of duck hunt.
Really Duck Hunt and you yawned? Well I guess you must have quite the amazing life to where the first few minutes of COD don't grip you at all. Then again all of us can't be flying our space ships to Mars and blowing up asteroids headed for Earth like apparantly some of you guys around here do.
You sit here and bash COD for not changing or this and that but come on. So the new and improved Spec Ops / Horde mode isn't a change? The way killstreaks or whatever are awarded aren't different? All new maps to play on? New weapons? What the hell do you guys expect? Fire up the console and all of a sudden you are playing a first person knife fighter set in Columbia?
What other game franchises "REALLY" change. Mario? Not really. Pretty much the same fucking thing since 85 with a few changes here and there. Zelda? Changed a few things but still it's Zelda.
I'm not saying you guys are right or wrong but saying the game looks like shit is completely retarded because a lot of the same guys bitching and making these complaints love the hell out of minecraft and no offense to minecraft it's cool but to rip on the art in COD. REALLY?
I would like to think that if anyone here made an environment piece that looked like one of the enviros in MW3 that we would praise that and say it looks great not rip on them and say "SHIT SUCKS!".
Fuck I just want to cock punch some of you bastards for this god damn mentality that so many people have these days with the self righteousness and acting like you are fucking owed something.
It's an interesting thing to dicuss though and as someone whos played more hours of TFC than most people here have played any game they own, ive thought about graphical updates and the like a lot.
(with TFC people wanted to give it a bit of an overhaul and change some of the things that werent great about the meta game - this spawned a source mod called Fortress forever, which people sampled but most of the core players prefered the original and continued to play that. If you change a game too much, ala TF2 then its a completely different game for different people, no brainer really. So how would one go about bringing TFC into today?)
In all fairness, the zombie mode / Spec ops (not this so much) are great modes to have in, and if you add up the "worth" (subjective) of the additions to each game - i.e. New maps, A new gimmick mode (whats a positive alternate for gimmick?), and a 5~ hour singleplayer, then its a game that does essentially warrent the pricetag.
Overall though its something that could be discussed far broader and should have its own thread, I don't really know where to stand with itterative games like megaman, metroidvania, zelda etc. With metroidvania it seems like they've achieved a perfection with the 2d games, so how do you extend its life? The stories are by and large samey and hollow, yet you love the experience of playing (whats important in games) - so perhaps having new looking levels/enemies/weapons is exactly what you desire, as opposed to playing through again.
An idea i'd like to explore is something like an extension of Torchlight/diablo (only not limited to ARPG) - so randomly generated modular content with new content released as tilesets and a few hand crafted levels with those, then release that shit to the community to do the same.
That to me fills the needs of people getting bored of content and makes money relative to contribution.
More than anything i want discussion of ideas, rather than blanket praise of condemning.
I would like to think that if anyone here made an environment piece that looked like one of the enviros in MW3 that we would praise that and say it looks great not rip on them and say "SHIT SUCKS!".
Fuck I just want to cock punch some of you bastards for this god damn mentality that so many people have these days with the self righteousness and acting like you are fucking owed something.
Totally agree.
Although self righteous and entitlement would be a defining trait of the typical "FPS COD fan"(pwning n00bs on his Xb@wKs! etc...) So when i see the user scores for COD3 with the super hot/cold reaction i think its almost like Activision is lying in the bed its made. I definitely am tired of people either loving something to the point of zeoltry or hating something more than hate itself.
I haven't bought a COD since MW1, and i played the SHIT out of it. Played the single player of MW2 and a little MP, decided it was not for me for reasons not important. But I CAN appreciate the changes they tried to make.
As others have stated you don't have to buy it(i really think some people don't understand this on some kind of subconsciousness level). If you don't like what there doing don't buy it. Im not. but as developer I can at least appreciate and respect the time that the developers put into it.
Really Duck Hunt and you yawned? Well I guess you must have quite the amazing life to where the first few minutes of COD don't grip you at all. Then again all of us can't be flying our space ships to Mars and blowing up asteroids headed for Earth like apparantly some of you guys around here do.
You sit here and bash COD for not changing or this and that but come on. So the new and improved Spec Ops / Horde mode isn't a change? The way killstreaks or whatever are awarded aren't different? All new maps to play on? New weapons? What the hell do you guys expect? Fire up the console and all of a sudden you are playing a first person knife fighter set in Columbia?
What other game franchises "REALLY" change. Mario? Not really. Pretty much the same fucking thing since 85 with a few changes here and there. Zelda? Changed a few things but still it's Zelda.
I'm not saying you guys are right or wrong but saying the game looks like shit is completely retarded because a lot of the same guys bitching and making these complaints love the hell out of minecraft and no offense to minecraft it's cool but to rip on the art in COD. REALLY?
I would like to think that if anyone here made an environment piece that looked like one of the enviros in MW3 that we would praise that and say it looks great not rip on them and say "SHIT SUCKS!".
Fuck I just want to cock punch some of you bastards for this god damn mentality that so many people have these days with the self righteousness and acting like you are fucking owed something.
you've got some valid points here and there but let me break down the basics:
me3 is the exact same game that we got last year, the year before that, the year vefore that, the enemy encounters are getting more and more simplistic - when i first played as yuri the enemies literally poured in from a single entrance, took up positions that might as well have had X's marked on the floor with masking tape.
the new york section was so by-the-numbers i couldn't get into it, nothing to engage me, nothing to challenge me, it was the very definition of mindless corridors and enemy placement, the set pieces were lackluster and slow paced - the helicopter scene was so incredibly unexciting when you compare it to cod4's helicopter/jeep chase sequence.
it seems like the bigger they go with this game the more dumbed down and boring it gets. it's not even very well polished anymore, as far as gameplay goes - the section in the submarine, i died multiple times on a very simple section, after having mowed down close to a hundred guys in the open streets of new york only minutes previously - where is the gentle curve that made earlier cod games so well paced and enjoyable?
as far as graphics go, it's reusing assets from a game that was released in 2007? on face value i don't have a problem with that, some of those 2007 assets are better than assets in games released this year. the problem is that as a whole the game looks incredibly samey, like we've seen it all before, and this time it doesn't even have a new coat of paint.
maybe that is self-entitlement, i don't know. i wasn't excited for this game before, but i knew i was going to buy it and at least give it a chance. but it really does nothing for me, and for the most anticipated game in history, you would have thought they could have at least raised my excitement levels above boredom.
as for new spec ops mode (which was average at best in mw2) and horde mode (maybe they can be inspired by gungame too oh wait they already did) and new guns (really, we're giving out 9.5/10's because a game introduces new guns now) - i don't really think that's enough to make me want to play it.
Replies
Hope you guys enjoy it for what it is, a fun game. It was a blast working on it. Cant wait to play some MP with the rest of the world when its released.
I don't blame Activision for releasing a new one everyday. (A company has a solid product they want to release annually? The shame!) If they can deliver each time on those notes that I think make perfect games then more power to them. And if I dont agree with their choice of releasing the latest one or that it looks like it's not for me, there's this amazing ability I have as a consumer I think a lot of gamers over look so that they continue arguing or hating: Choice. It's my choice to buy the game or to ignore it. Its my choice to support the developer/publisher responsible and fuck anyone who says otherwise. Who am I to belittle others for buying something they would enjoy? A lot of the gaming populous have growing up to do when it comes to verbalizing their distaste for a game, especially when they feel the need to comment on those who enjoy those games.
When you talk of the franchises replayability i dont think thats really... fair? I'm not quite sure how to word this as there are people that still consistently play COD2 / MW1 and while this is a testament to how well designed the game is i think it also functions like a double edged sword in this scenario.
Seeing as we have phrases like "if it aint broke dont fix it" - but what? its ok to add some tinsel and resell it (yes, thats me being a cunt). But seriously, it would be interesting to have some statistics for the sake of this argument, i wonder how many people complete the singleplayer and if theyre buying it for the multiplayer i have to wonder why when the core experience will stay predominantly the same.
Lets say, hypothetically, that the % that buy the game for the multiplayer exceeds that of the singleplayer (60% of the people who got that game on steam completed the singleplayer part of MW2, 50% for Black OPS) then couldnt they be pleased with map packs or community content? Looking at the completion stats isn't that indicative of motive though, as i valued MW2 as it was and bought it knowing id have friends to play the multiplayer with, the singleplayer acted as a bonus that i completed when no one else was around. But the problem i can see from sequals is that it can and will seperate the multiplayer community...
Its funny, my hairdresser plays COD games (hes never completed the singleplayer for any) and he talks a lot about how his clan will discuss amongst themselves whether or not they should switch games or carry on paying for their server. It seems like a weird problem to have as they play S&D without the noisy killstreaks so their experience will remain rather similar from game to game.
tl;dr
I enjoy the game, it is fun and well designed... so the core multiplayer in sequals will be too.
Do people buy the sequals in fear that the community in the previous game will split/dilute?
Would the core playerbase be as high / less spikey if there were no sequals only community/developer map packs? (TF2 numbers?)
I dont really want to condemn others choices, its interesting to look at things outside the box though and consider the knock on effects that it causes. (i.e. the way a game becoming an esport influences the playerbase, although a minority that will still be a group in itself)
completely agree, MW3 looks really good and i cant wait to play it, and some of the new additions look awesome.
agree about Black Ops, its fun but isnt great and can be pretty frustrating at times
Its better, but more like Modern Warfare 2.5. Its amazing how many models they reused.
As for MW3 - so awesome!! Butter smooth, nice and fast ... Big props for the borderless mode too!
After having to deal with the webbased Battlog/Origin clutter it is so refreshing to be simply able to launch a game and enter lobbies from there. Congrats to all involved - a great, polished and straightforward product!
Is it? Why remake what is already created to a decent level? Surely its good development sense, considering the fact that they would also have been under pressure because of the change-ups with developers. Don't see how that makes it MW 2.5 :poly142:
the visuals look nice and densely populated. the lighting is starting to look a little dated on somethings, mostly black shadows and lacking bounce but it still looks fantastic in most cases. I will be interested to see what they consider "next-gen" call of duty on new engine, sureley they have to after bf3 being released.
awesome work to everyone at IW and sledge!
I find it hilarious that people rip on Call of Duty games but go nuts over new Zelda games, street fighter or whatever else has been done over and over.
Call of Duty at its heart is over the top and super action packed. I don't think they are going to change that for the last part of the series in this arc. You are dropped back into the middle of the war with Russia still attacking New York. Should it start any other way?
Picked this up last night on the x-box and only got take a small crack at the multiplayer and I love it so far. Gives me everything I want out of call of duty game (although I miss the black ops dolphin dive which made capping flags epic). There is a pretty healthy amount of maps right out of the gate and most play very well even if a bit hectic. Art is as solid as ever and I love the gun variety and new weapon progression system. Some of the newer toys are really interesting as well and add alot of fun.
I don't mind them re-using media, thats fine. But my God, it looks dated, plus it plays worse than BLOPS, has less content, and STILL has hacks/problems that MW2 had...
Amazingly poor show, how its getting so many top marks is beyond me.
EDIT: As a side note, I've put in about 6 hours to MP so far, and put in hundreds in MW2/BLOPS. So I'm not going into it as some new guy moaning its not BF3 or whatever, I'm a solid fan. I just think its time they bit the bullet and saw they can't keep on with the same old shit all the time. Granted they can't change the game too much, but this really does feel a step abckwards from MW2 even, never mind BLOPS.
EDIT2: One last whinge... I want to kill whoever thought IW.Net was a good idea... Its the worst idea ever, even, and having Dedicated servers ONLY on unranked is terrible. They play sooooooooooo well and soooooooooo smooth, even in MW3, to go back to that mess is just... Ugh...
I'll join in the battle. Take everything this guy said and make it the opposite and you'll have my take on the game.
Why fix what ain't broken I say. Moody said it perfectly a couple comments above me.
Thanks IW and Sledge and those others that had a part in making the game.
IT'S AWESOME, and the top marks it's getting are well deserved, as will be evident when the sales numbers and reviews come rolling in.
haters gunna hate... allllll day long. Now keep proving me right loves.
But they release a new game every year... and if its the same model then why are we paying $60 for the same guns and a mappack, not to mention the maps are getting smaller and more crammed.
It was bad enough when they took that leap to sell a map pack for 1600($15) ms points, once they knew people will pay that much we'll never see an 800 ms point map pack again.
They're probably laughing back at the office. MW3 brought in $1.2Billion IIRC. They're making bank.
I'm one of the few that LOVES COD MP, and people I know call me an idiot for enjoying it. But its great fun, it really is. But after BLOPS, how can you not see this as a step backwards? The whole perk/streak system is rubbish, the weapons all feel bad, the hacks that were fixed in BLOPS but broke in MW2, are now back in MW3... Its obvious they used the MW2 engine and not the BLOPS one, but even then, why not fix the shit they knew was wrong...?
You can argue they do the same with Fifa and stuff, and thats true. But every other year, they make a HUGE change to the game. The graphics take a massive leap, and they add huge gameplay related changes that sometimes work, sometimes don't, but always change it up. Yet here we are, 4-5 years after the fact, with the same game we had then, even the same bloody graphics...
Its just........ What?
EDIT: Oh and, because I'm a dick, I will say it.................. £40 for a fucking stats trackign system that was free in BLOPS and is free in the games direct competition... Ballsy... Stupid, but ballsy...
I would like to see a new engine or some MAJOR improvements done going forward but chances are we wont.
but god damn are the multiplayer maps butt ugly looks like a 1st generation Xbox game was not impressed at all art wise, they really need to get a new engine.
dont really have any comments about the gameplay, its COD you either hate it or love it.
Consider;
The game is building on rock SOLID foundations, if theyre not straying too far from the formula... you should enjoy how it plays, its a no brainer.
Does that warrent a full pricetag for mappacks and gimmicks (gimmicks that the people who get the most life out of the game - on pc - will turn off, that or play COD2 or MW1)?
If you review this game in a vacuum its not surprising that it gets top marks as theyre good at what they do, but thankfully we dont live in a vacuum, right? Then again, im sure looking at games like that has its merits, allows it to be broken down to its components easier.
On a forum such as this though, i really wish we could get more interesting discussion on gameplay and breaking down what can be done better (nothings perfect) without the constant circle jerking. Oh good job art team xD cant w8 2 play ur game, it looks amzing... save this shit for youtube comments and try to actually consider ways to improve the games? Hell, if theres a place that could have valid feedback on things it should be here, right?
fucking. sigh.
Well, the main problem I see with this is that many of the reused assets didn't even get a texture upgrade.
Most them look like a straight CGTexture slaps, run under an automatic tile generator, before being thrown in with a few good measures of decal. In one of the earlier iterations of COD, I remember them specifically putting in a Tesselation system for the Ocean just so it would look good, the lack of any 'extra' effort being put here is bothersome.
I don't expect a graphical overhaul, but maybe a more robust Post-Process, where we have more variety then Bloom and Brown would be grand.
As for gameplay. Not a fan.
The limitation of the FOV to around 60 is ludicrous. I need atleast a 80-90 to play. I get motion sick really quickly when limited in my view unnaturally.
Black Ops had the perfect level up system, you play, you unlock. Now they're asking me to play with a weapon, to unlock other weapons, play with those at level 1, as well what cosmetics I can apply to it. More digital thread-milling.
The shotguns are still too Hollywood. In BF3, you can snipe with Shotguns (which is pretty silly), and now here, you can't even shoot at arms length in someones groin area and get a kill (which is again, silly, unless you have a sawed off shotty).
Juggernaut package is BS, infact the new strike package system over all is pretty broken. Everyone is going to be support, no question about that. Maximum rewards, even when getting penalties.
Someone at the studio must hate teamwork, because so far, everything about teamwork doesn't exist. Even the most basic thing like Kill Assist is based upon pity. I'm essentially being given pity point, sometimes for my own kills for killing or helping team-mates. The least I can get is (for the dog tag game) someone kind of extra point system for being helpful overall to my team. Why am I getting pity points for Kill Assist, while at the same time, my team-mates can steal my downed foes enemies Dog-Tags?
Overall, not impressed. I was hoping for the Developers to realize that the entire 'Rich get Richer, poor will struggle' scheme that the game had since MW2 was a bad idea, and maybe implementing at least a virtual, fake slingshot feeling to people who aren't exactly popping mad skills, so that they have fight chance, at least in terms of morale.
Honestly, if I get my hands on whoever made this stupid industry decision of "Rich get Richer and Poor get Poorer" scheme for every single FPS out there, there will be hell to pay, and the fact that MW3 is taking it to new heights doesn't help.
PS: SP was actually pretty fine.
Maybe not the most mind boggling graphics out there, but in the end, I say the quality of execution was awesome to see.
Edit: And not to make Jackwhat pissed off at me for saying "gg on art", I was just more impressed at how well (or how I SEE it that is) the art/ environments were executed as whole. It just looks like whoever was leading the art direction seemed to care about how each section felt (or a good chunk of it anyways) which was refreshing to me.
I could be wrong and it could just be "recycled" art, but you have to admit, playing through the game with that MUCH destruction, it would be dumb of you not to re-use assets if they fit within the environment / story.
I know sometimes the time constraints forces us to rush some stuff, but some assets just popped out so much for me (I know I'm being a stickler for micro details here, but hey):
http://steamcommunity.com/id/deceiver/screenshot/630730693636144449?tab=public
Terrible escalator texture
http://steamcommunity.com/id/deceiver/screenshot/630730693654155180/?tab=public
Untextured gate
http://steamcommunity.com/id/deceiver/screenshot/630730693654156212/?tab=public
Recycled snow-covered box from MW2 in the Paris catacombs.
Even when I look at the bigger picture stuff. Some of it can be pretty at times, but generally, just all feels dated =/. After playing RAGE, nothing can beat the big picture moments in there despite its shortcoming in texture res and such.
What? So they add the support strike system (which protip: not everyone is using, because I'd rather drop reapers on you all day than the rare escort package) to avoid the rich get richer syndrome, and you say its too good, but also miss that it helps your team and helps even things out?
If you can't get 18 kills in a match to call in your escort package you weren't going to be doing any winning without killstreaks in the game.
Fixed! Stupid copy paste is broken on my computer at home =/.
I'm also of the mindset that the overall environment as a whole is whats most important, instead of focusing on 1 piece and spending a day making that trash can look AMAZING (just an example... don't spend a day on a trash can :P ), I instead would rather focus on making that alley way or side street that the trashcan is apart of look just as good.
But this is all personal opinion, but for some reason I was really impressed at how well they managed to nail down the "bigger picture". Personally I would like to work in that kind of style, since most of my experience so far is mainly focused on a prop by prop basis.
And also... just to put fuel to the fire, how long did these guys get to work on it? Considering that Activision is releasing a COD game once a year (or more), I think I'm more ok with seeing older props being re-used in "newer" games, just make sure to be smart with there use is all.
I don't know, this whole it looks "dated" "crap" whatever is a bit silly, I haven't played BF3 but judging from the Ultra quality highres screens that got sent around at work, I'd rate MW3 as 8/10 if BF3 is 10/10... Far from "dated crap".
I love Cod, and more of the same is perfect.
I like burgers, I like MacDonald's. I have a good feeling knowing that when i go get a bigmac it's always the same despite going to a diferent place everytime.
But it's cool knowing that that nice taste that i crave will be same the same and i wont get disapointed.
It's like listening to a music group. I love foo fighters and they consistently make awesome new rock records each time. And that's what i love about them. Knowing that the next album won't be like a electro beatzzz dub whatever.
Now, if you got sick of burgers, go try something else, there's lots of diferent food/games going arround for everyone.
With this being said, whenever a burger game comes out, and adds a special new ingredient, make the whole thing really special
Your food analogy just falls flat on its arse.
Jack. Don't be a tool.
I've written two relatively long posts trying to dicuss ideas and reasons why people continue to buy games like MW2 but no one has really challenged any of the things i've brought up, so perhaps i should just give up.
Edit so as not to bump;
"Having said that, I love everything about it. I've got 13 hours of MP over two days of playing MP. I lose track of time playing it, which is the ultimate sign of a good game, in my opinion."
I'll say it for at least the 3rd time, the idea behind these comments isn't wrong but it bothers me in that its almost an obvious statement. The game is really well made, so when you're playing a sequel thats honed its craft in the past, then its obvious the new itterations will be equally as tight.
I see COD MW1 almost in the same light as Quake 3 - theyre such well made games and do their "thing" so well, its almost an area that doesn't NEED change. Thing is, you don't see a quake sequal / dm game every year, adding in level up systems and RPG splash damage perks.
Having said that, I love everything about it. I've got 13 hours of MP over two days of playing MP. I lose track of time playing it, which is the ultimate sign of a good game, in my opinion.
My belief at this time is that they have hit a wall, however - I don't think they can make a Modern Warfare better than this one. They can do something different, but I don't think they can do something better (outside of tightening up the graphics, which are definitely showing their console origins and the asset re-use from 3+ games - they're all fantastically composed, but there is a lack of consistency in environment assets).
So with that conceit, I think they have to put Modern Warfare to bed, which ironically (it's my understanding) is what the IW falling out stemmed from - Activision not wanting to do that.
I'm not in any way saying it's a bad thing that it's more of the same. But when i can get the exact same experience without spending more money i feel no reason to change.
Your burger analogy doesn't quite work in my opinion. What if you made a one time payment for unlimited burgers at McD's? Would you then pay to get burgers that taste the same from somewhere else? I doubt it.
And that's the thing. I'm not sick of multiplayer CoD, no matter how much it makes me want to throw my tv out the window in uncontrollable rage (spawn tubes anyone?!) i don't get tired of it even after 30+ days MP game time (should i even admit that :poly142:). But i just don't feel the need to get the new game that plays the same.
MW2 was actually my first CoD game, i then bought WaW and Cod4 second hand because a) i wanted to play zombies with mates and b) cod4 had a huge amount of hype and i wanted to give it a try
This post probably makes no sense because i'm so hungry i could cry.
Really Duck Hunt and you yawned? Well I guess you must have quite the amazing life to where the first few minutes of COD don't grip you at all. Then again all of us can't be flying our space ships to Mars and blowing up asteroids headed for Earth like apparantly some of you guys around here do.
You sit here and bash COD for not changing or this and that but come on. So the new and improved Spec Ops / Horde mode isn't a change? The way killstreaks or whatever are awarded aren't different? All new maps to play on? New weapons? What the hell do you guys expect? Fire up the console and all of a sudden you are playing a first person knife fighter set in Columbia?
What other game franchises "REALLY" change. Mario? Not really. Pretty much the same fucking thing since 85 with a few changes here and there. Zelda? Changed a few things but still it's Zelda.
I'm not saying you guys are right or wrong but saying the game looks like shit is completely retarded because a lot of the same guys bitching and making these complaints love the hell out of minecraft and no offense to minecraft it's cool but to rip on the art in COD. REALLY?
I would like to think that if anyone here made an environment piece that looked like one of the enviros in MW3 that we would praise that and say it looks great not rip on them and say "SHIT SUCKS!".
Fuck I just want to cock punch some of you bastards for this god damn mentality that so many people have these days with the self righteousness and acting like you are fucking owed something.
I bored of more COD, it's all the same.
(with TFC people wanted to give it a bit of an overhaul and change some of the things that werent great about the meta game - this spawned a source mod called Fortress forever, which people sampled but most of the core players prefered the original and continued to play that. If you change a game too much, ala TF2 then its a completely different game for different people, no brainer really. So how would one go about bringing TFC into today?)
In all fairness, the zombie mode / Spec ops (not this so much) are great modes to have in, and if you add up the "worth" (subjective) of the additions to each game - i.e. New maps, A new gimmick mode (whats a positive alternate for gimmick?), and a 5~ hour singleplayer, then its a game that does essentially warrent the pricetag.
Overall though its something that could be discussed far broader and should have its own thread, I don't really know where to stand with itterative games like megaman, metroidvania, zelda etc. With metroidvania it seems like they've achieved a perfection with the 2d games, so how do you extend its life? The stories are by and large samey and hollow, yet you love the experience of playing (whats important in games) - so perhaps having new looking levels/enemies/weapons is exactly what you desire, as opposed to playing through again.
An idea i'd like to explore is something like an extension of Torchlight/diablo (only not limited to ARPG) - so randomly generated modular content with new content released as tilesets and a few hand crafted levels with those, then release that shit to the community to do the same.
That to me fills the needs of people getting bored of content and makes money relative to contribution.
More than anything i want discussion of ideas, rather than blanket praise of condemning.
Totally agree.
Although self righteous and entitlement would be a defining trait of the typical "FPS COD fan"(pwning n00bs on his Xb@wKs! etc...) So when i see the user scores for COD3 with the super hot/cold reaction i think its almost like Activision is lying in the bed its made. I definitely am tired of people either loving something to the point of zeoltry or hating something more than hate itself.
I haven't bought a COD since MW1, and i played the SHIT out of it. Played the single player of MW2 and a little MP, decided it was not for me for reasons not important. But I CAN appreciate the changes they tried to make.
As others have stated you don't have to buy it(i really think some people don't understand this on some kind of subconsciousness level). If you don't like what there doing don't buy it. Im not. but as developer I can at least appreciate and respect the time that the developers put into it.
you've got some valid points here and there but let me break down the basics:
me3 is the exact same game that we got last year, the year before that, the year vefore that, the enemy encounters are getting more and more simplistic - when i first played as yuri the enemies literally poured in from a single entrance, took up positions that might as well have had X's marked on the floor with masking tape.
the new york section was so by-the-numbers i couldn't get into it, nothing to engage me, nothing to challenge me, it was the very definition of mindless corridors and enemy placement, the set pieces were lackluster and slow paced - the helicopter scene was so incredibly unexciting when you compare it to cod4's helicopter/jeep chase sequence.
it seems like the bigger they go with this game the more dumbed down and boring it gets. it's not even very well polished anymore, as far as gameplay goes - the section in the submarine, i died multiple times on a very simple section, after having mowed down close to a hundred guys in the open streets of new york only minutes previously - where is the gentle curve that made earlier cod games so well paced and enjoyable?
as far as graphics go, it's reusing assets from a game that was released in 2007? on face value i don't have a problem with that, some of those 2007 assets are better than assets in games released this year. the problem is that as a whole the game looks incredibly samey, like we've seen it all before, and this time it doesn't even have a new coat of paint.
maybe that is self-entitlement, i don't know. i wasn't excited for this game before, but i knew i was going to buy it and at least give it a chance. but it really does nothing for me, and for the most anticipated game in history, you would have thought they could have at least raised my excitement levels above boredom.
as for new spec ops mode (which was average at best in mw2) and horde mode (maybe they can be inspired by gungame too oh wait they already did) and new guns (really, we're giving out 9.5/10's because a game introduces new guns now) - i don't really think that's enough to make me want to play it.