Issues with carpal tunnel
polycounter lvl 11
So, over the last few years I've spent a great deal of time working on the computer (8+ hours a day minus the weekends) as well as other finger and hand related activities such as gaming and playing guitar. Recently I have seriously aggravated my right hand (mouse clicking hand) and it is making it very difficult to do world building and 3D modeling. The usual rest, heating pad, and anti-inflammatory medication helps to relieve pressure. I've gotten a few suggestions from co-workers and I currently switched to a more ergonomic keyboard. I've been using the MX518 mouse and have noticed that most of my problems seem to stem from worldbuilding inside a game engine which involves holding down the mouse2 button in order to move the camera and get good angles. I'm working on getting a better chair that sits higher up so I can get better posture with both forearms on the desk.
Anywho, since we are all artists that spend a ton of time on the computer, I'm wondering if any of you guys have had the same problems with hand cramps and early signs of carpal tunnel. I'd like to nip this in the bud before it really becomes a problem. I'm wondering what kind of nifty things some of you use to ease the tension and pressure in your hands (primarily the mouse hand and the clicking involved). I've been looking at some foot pedals for clicking but I wasn't sure if they are worth it. Also I was curious if anyone uses a trackball and whether they feel like they lose accuracy in modeling when doing so. Thanks a ton!
Anywho, since we are all artists that spend a ton of time on the computer, I'm wondering if any of you guys have had the same problems with hand cramps and early signs of carpal tunnel. I'd like to nip this in the bud before it really becomes a problem. I'm wondering what kind of nifty things some of you use to ease the tension and pressure in your hands (primarily the mouse hand and the clicking involved). I've been looking at some foot pedals for clicking but I wasn't sure if they are worth it. Also I was curious if anyone uses a trackball and whether they feel like they lose accuracy in modeling when doing so. Thanks a ton!
Replies
I also use a gel pad type thing just under my keyboard to keep my hand in a rested position at all times.
Try to keep masturbation at a minimum.
Bought a new desk when I was able, things are much more even and with this chair height it's a lot easier to keep my wrists straight. Never liked ergonomic keyboards or mice. It still bugs me every so often, and I do still pull out the wrist brace from time to time, but as a whole things are significantly better than in earlier years.
I forgot to mention that. I got a carpal tunnel brace a few days ago and use it when I sleep and it helps a TON! Only problem is it gets bad again as soon as I start working
Do you mind posting your office setup? Maybe we can give you some pointers
I do get some wrist pains but it's not that bad..
EricWK's idea would also probably be pretty good. I'm no doctor but i do think it's good to be aware of these things, i find some people sacrifice there body in the pursuit of the ultimate game development career(overweight much anyone?) It's all about balance.
Also your probably need one of these!!
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Good luck anyways, to you and the others having problems, it's definitely the kind of stuff most of us in this line of work will have to deal with sooner or later unfortunatly.
As for typing, I found a strange but very smooth solution : I put an extra, low profile (apple) keyboard ... on the top edge of my screen (its a cintiq so it sits lower than a regular screen, especially when mounted on an arm). It sounds stupid but it makes typing very natural, since the wrists are very 'open' that way.
Hope this helps. Im currently fighting lower back pains myself - there are so many wrong things with default computer workstations ...
I've heard that regular exercise especially the kind that gets blood circulating through the back, shoulders, neck, and arms helps a lot from someone who did have surgery for carpal tunnel. Best to speak to a actual doctor about that kind of thing though...
I know it was due to that mouse which I love and that middle click that gave me such bad pain.
I work about the same crazy hours at work now but in Maya I dont need to use the middle mouse button and its so much better. I would defiantly try and get that middle mouse click off your nav controls for world builder. Think that will help a ton as will all the other stuff mentioned.
Worst thing for me right now is backpain like pior. Then again I am a HUGE slouch and have a terrible chair at home and at work : / Putting my monitors on about 10 books so there raised high forced me to sit slightly straighter which already has been the a world of difference.
p.s. I love popping my cyst.
On topic: I would visit a chiropractor or a doc if it's bad, you don't want to make it worse and have to go in for surgery... He might help that back problem as well, but I'm guessing you're a young guy, in the peak of your youth sooo he's just going to tell you to exercise.
It just feels amazing when you stretch after sitting on the chair for a long time, crack some bones. ahhhhhhh too good. Especially when you crack your tail bone after sitting like a sloth, fuck...
I've read that using a tablet rather than a mouse helps a lot of people, as mentioned before in this thread. I've been using my wacom for 99% of the time during the last couple of years though, so I can't really tell if there's much of a difference ^^;
jesus.
Mine is pretty much like this:
Maybe I'm lucky to not have any reoccuring pains, just a horrible extension I could probably give a name soon.
(Im thinking quato)
I think my best ever trick was to find the mouse that was the best for my hand (mx518) and also make sure the surface under it was the best possible, less tension in hand and less required movements.
Nearly everything that has to do with carpel tunnels syntrome starts with posture.
This is what we have at work. Costs one arm, but, saves the other
[ame]http://www.amazon.com/Basic-Celle-Chair-Champagne-Brownstone/dp/B000NT9PRC/ref=pd_sbs_k_7[/ame]
We have very similar chairs. The problem at Vigil, atleast for me, is that the desks are mounted to the wall at a predetermined height that cant be adjusted. Those chairs barely sit high enough even at the maximum height to get your forearms on the desk.
I have had issues with this in the past when I used the mx510 and mx518... I ditched them for the MX Revolution (not avail anymore but they have the newer Performance Mouse MX http://www.logitech.com/en-us/mice-pointers/mice/devices/5845 ) which is basically the same thing. The mouse buttons are customizable so I remapped the middle mouse button which created issues for me to one of the buttons my thumb could hit and make it easier.
I also started to stretch my fingers and wrists a lot more and work on some of the recommended exercises, drank more water and took breaks.
I re-aggrevated it when I started working construction but that was mainly due to the constant vibration of power tools.
Continued with the stretching, water, anti-inflammatory meds, rest and the wrist support as well when I slept and I don't have many of the same issues now.
Even with all the art test crunch lately I have been pretty much pain free and I was at the point where it even hurt to paint on my cintiq or play video games and totally destroyed my grip on my golf clubs when golfing.
The doctor I went to asked me to do a few things to determine if it was carpal tunnel. I said that none of it hurt (which meant the tests were negative) and she hand waved it away still calling it carpal tunnel and told me to wear a wrist brace for the rest of my life.
So I did some reading on my own and came to the conclusion that what I actually had was RSI (repetitive strain injury). The muscles in my back were tired out which caused my shoulder to tire out which (this bone connected to that bone, etc) caused my wrist to hurt. The human body is a complicated machine!
Once I figured that out, I started seeing a deep tissue massage therapist and starting paying attention to my ergonomics in regards to mouse placement and such. I'll never be 100% free of the pain I've caused myself but it's definitely manageable now. I thought I was done with computers a few years back but I'm still here, still going strong and don't anticipate stopping anytime soon.
Good luck!
I believe mine to be quite similar in that it started with my shoulder. I had soreness in my shoulder and my forearm and as soon as I rested it and used some icyhot/anti-inflammatory medication my shoulder stopped hurting and my wrist stopped with it. I'm fairly certain I aggravated both my shoulder and my wrist and that they are 2 separate problems that happen to be in the same arm, which sucks. I'm trying some better posture that will hopefully relieve strain on my shoulders, and thus help with the wrist issue as well. Thanks again for all the help, glad to see I'm not the only one with the pains.
Evoluent 4 Vertical Mouse.
Took me about a week to get used to it but it has quite a few buttons so it was a fairly easy transition from my mx-510. Add a few Autohotkey scripts to go along with it and now I really love it for work or just surfing in general. Regular Mice actually feel uncomfortable to me now.
Ergorest
Love it. I battled elbow pain without this thing. I use it at work and really need to figure out how to hook one up at my place. I have a glass desk at home which I kind of regret now. Anyone with suggestions on the best way to attach something like this to a glass desk let me know in here or via PM
imak Smart Gloves
Really like these. I used to use them on both hands before I got a Vertical Mouse. Now I'm not sure if I like it on my right hand; I just use a gel pad on the desk for that.
I started getting wrist pain about a year ago, and these changes have helped a lot. Like a lot of you, I'm trying to nip this thing in the bud.
Love polycount I come for the art but stay for the witty banter.
Awesome post foreverendering!
Inefficient workflows, poor posture, minimal breaks, and lack of exercise can all contribute heavily to RSI. I'm not a doctor by any means, but here are some things I've found effective (both from reading and personal experience):
-- Good posture is incredibly important (and really difficult). This is influenced heavily by your workstation set up, so if possible adjust your chair and desk accordingly. Your knees should be at 90 degrees with your feet flat on the floor, your back shouldn't be rounded, your forearms should be fairly level and not angled upward. Weight training/exercise will help strengthen your core and improve your posture.
-- Equipment matters. I use a Wacom instead of a mouse and it reduces strain because my forearm bones aren't twisting (same principle behind the vertical mouse posted earlier). It also reduces mouse clicks (tap instead of left click). I also use an ergonomic keyboard; I was skeptical at first, but now I can't go back to straight keys. My hands just feel like they're at a completely unnatural angle and it's uncomfortable, to say the least. And I haven't tried this yet, but I think one or two USB foot pedals could distribute the clicking workload and reduce stress on the shoulder/forearm/wrist. Progg, imagine if you could just hold down mouse 2 with light foot pressure to navigate the camera?
-- Observe what actions you repeat most in your software and figure out ways to streamline them. I use an incredibly array of shortcuts while animating in Maya, and I still think my workflow is inefficient. But making better use of the keyboard evens out stress on both arms (my tablet arm is typically way more active) and has the added bonus of increasing my productivity.
-- Take frequent small breaks to stand up and stretch out your legs, back, neck, shoulders, arms, and wrists. A few minutes every hour goes a long way when you're working 8, 10, 12 hours a day.
-- Exercising several times a week always makes me feel better. It increases the strength and flexibility of my muscles and also helps reduce any RSI-related stresses I might be feeling. It seems so simple, and I know it can be really difficult during extensive crunch, but the potential benefits are huge.
I think the hardest part of all this is that it requires constant effort and vigilance. Being proactive is difficult... we all have a tendency to wait until we're feeling pain, sometimes a LOT of pain, and by then it might be really late in the process.
I thought it'd be something familiar to many people here, and mine has been getting really bad of late, so have been looking for solutions that don't mean I have to quit my job haha.
It's been bad for about 6 months now, but recently I'm now feeling pain in the finger tips - a bit like a stinging/bruised feeling, like I'd just hit it with a wooden paddle or something.
How do you guys approach it with your boss if say you needed to get something like a new chair etc? I got one of those microsoft ergonomic keyboards + mouse - and it's helping somewhat, but having read this thread, I can see stuff like the fact the desk is too shallow (it's less than three feet deep, and with a large monitor stand and the super deep keyboard , there's no room to really rest on the desk ) , the chair has to sit sideways as the legs of the desk can't accommodate the drawer unit and the PC, and the bundles of power leads and network cables mean you can't really move your legs around much.
I did ask about time off, but it seems the only way I'd get respite is to simply quit the job. :-/
With so many people getting pain/injury - is there any kind of legislation protecting employees in the event of injury?
I'm really hoping this is not permanent, as I'd hate to not be able to play piano/guitar as I used to be able to, just because of having a job where I'm constantly having to copy/paste by keystroke because the software my job uses is so archaic it doesn't allow right clicking.
My father has really bad carpal tunnel and needs surgery if he wants to fix it,
Get it sorted early mate, you'll regret it if you don't.
Ergorest looks like its renderer with 3point
A while back I switched mice to the Logitech Revolution MX (no longer made by Logitech) but they have a very similar one available now. I remapped the button on the left side of the mouse that my thumb was always resting against to be middle mouse button in max and all my modeling / editor applications and it helped a ton. I also had a wrist support and slept with that for a while. I still had pains but stretching, massaging, ice, heat, etc really helped.
Since I've started to eat better, drink more water, work out, stretch and take better care of myself and all that I have not had any issues with things in quite a while. I can't say exactly what fixed it but changing up to have better posture, mouse, etc is easy fixes in my opinion before trying surgery.
So that is just my two cents.
Been using an Ergo Rest at home and at work for the past 12 years. NEVER had any problems with my arm. Sure, it gets tired/sore when I'm working crazy, but no carpal tunnel issues.
Also, if you can't get your hands on an Ergo rest, just make sure you elbow is planted on your desk or chair and start moving your mouse around by moving you entire lower arm (elbow down) instead of your wrist. I've trained myself not to move my wrist at all when using a mouse.
Also, exercise.
http://www.workrave.org/
Install it and have the patience to follow it.
My small finger and the one next to it have been numb for about 3 years now, though it had eased off to what it was.
At one point it got reallly painful, but its better these days, i have my left hand mainly my in my lap or hanging down the side. Not too comfy, but its better than the alternative (re 127 hours)
The first time was really painful and I think that it was the middle mouse button that caused it (rotating in max). It was impossible to do anything in ZBrush with a claw that couldn´t reach for the pen button without a pain. Taking a break helped for a while - just until I went to shower. You don´t realize how much your fingers move when you manipulate the soap until you have some issues with your hands... I couldn´t even find any comfortable position in bed to fall asleep.
Same thing happened this year, only this time my finger tips went numb at some stage and I could see my hand sweating. Just watching the hand for like a minute and I could see the little sweat drops coming and going, repeatively.
I never really saw a doctor with this but I might if it comes back again. I´ve read about the carpal tunnel some time ago and it really freaked me out. It´s definitely something you don´t want to end up with. And it´s not only like losing a job over this, but a hobby and a passion as well.
This. I use my wacom with my right hand I've got my mouse placed to the left of the keyboard for when i don't need speed or precision. Every click I can spare my right hand counts, even when using the tablet. The fingers that are below the pen get a bit numb as they catch the most pressure, and on bad days the top area of my hand feels like it's burning, but not in a very painful way.
Ha! I've just started to get pains in my left hand from using the mouse. But I have been stretching and using it in an awkward way. Its no big deal because I can just stop using it.