The eyes are like the most important thing on a female character model, I put like 50% into the eyes on my Aayla Secura character. (check portfolio for images).
I love how the torso looks, that's just a really feminine pose she got going there, it's quite powerful. Her legs however don't convey the same. I think she should have a wider stance. Like she knows she is beautiful and a talented mech-driver.
Try to give us some headshots, be wary of the FOV in Marmoset , mainly because the head might get warped with close-ups. We need a front shot, a side shot and something in between. To see if we can dissect it a little bit more. I think you got a great one going here, would be such a waste to quit now.
Mech looks good. Maybe the tires could use some treads/channels or something?
Maybe the thing about the face is that the eyes are just so large overall making her look half cartoony.
I also think adjusting the model so that she has a slight facial expression would be nice for the final presentation shot. Maybe not looking straight ahead, etc.
Thanks guys but I'm a bit confused to what you mean by the eyes. Is it the form of the eyes? Is it the eyeball? The texture of the iris? I checked your character, chris, but I don't really know what I'm looking for. Also I don't understand putting 50% into the eyes... What did you put 50% into the eyes?
I tried putting treads and stuff into the tires before but it just looked weird/bad. I just went back to the original concept look. Perhaps I should give it another shot.
Here are a couple of more shots of the face so you can see the eyes better;
i haven't put the eyelashes in yet and at the moment these are just textures.
You should put eye-lashes in ASAP. They make the eyes look smaller and more beautiful. Might "fix" certain issues. Depending on the texture sheet you need to make sure you get a lot of detail in the eyes, a nice rich color with lots of detail.
The white in the eyes doesn't go all the way to the inner part of the eye and if you don't have a shader to do it then "shade" the upper part of the eye, and the corners. Right now you have the same white all over the eye.
Look closely at this and try to figure out why this eye is attractive:
The more attention you give the eyes the more attractive she will look in the end.
The forehead still looks weird to me. Like she doesn't have one, like the curve is way too harsh. Hard to tell when it's not a side-view. Maybe you should show a pic without the hair, generally a good looking female will look quite nice without her hair as well.
Look at Mandy Moore, she has a big forehead, still very beautiful!
I realize that this is a lot of stuff, but you'll be glad that you spent extra time going through this later Plus you'll get better at this stuff as time goes on.
Thanks a lot, chrisradsby! I will definitely have a look at that. The pupil looks a bit too large though, don't you think? I think I'll decrease the size somewhat. I'll keep the iris about the same size though.
it's progressing slowly. I'll see if I can do some kind of paint-over when I get home, Aw man, So much potential, don't worry man you'll nail this one, give it time
EDIT: OH Yeah, look up lots of shots of Jennifer Connelly.
Spend a lot of time making the eyes more sparkly, oh and notice the shadowing under her hair as well. It's just like an AO-pass man, to make it look more interesting. And I made no changes to the eyes, just the general shape of the head, and gave the hair more valume, made the lips smaller as well and less defined. Try to make the area under her nose more subtle, might just be this render of-course but still
Everywhere where you can see I used the smudge-tool I changed something to make it more feminine. I hope it helps! Looking forward to more progress!
Thanks, chris, for the paint-over!
I adjusted the hair(made it bigger), changed the eyes slightly(I looked at Jennifer Connely's eyes), added some shadow on her forehead from the hair. Also I made her mouth smaller and the area between the mouth and nose more subtle. How is this;
That's great to hear. I agree with you, her face was looking a bit too big and with the new hair it looks a lot better. Also your critique is good and constructive so I don't have any reason to ignore them.
I'm working on the presentation now. I'm not sure to which one to pick. What do you think?
I've put an arrow to show where she is.
Thanks, Wex. I changed the eyes according to your suggestions. The rest I tried but it just didn't come out as good as I'd expected.
I think I'm pretty much done with these now. What do you think?
Next time, I think you might want to try to find ways to soften the nostrils. I'm not sure if the space between them is too far or if it's just the sharp transition between the them and the rest of the nose. For some reason I didn't really notice it until the last few images you posted.
I'm glad you ended up enlarging the pupils. I think a little redness around the edges of the sclera (the white of the eyes) to suggest blood vessels would also help the eyeballs feel more "set" into the face. The eyes as a whole are still a little too big to me, but it's an improvement overall.
The base is pretty good too, although the color of the pavement makes the sleds on the mech get lost a little. I don't think most people count the base towards the poly count so you might as well pump up the divisions on it to avoid the slightly distracting faceting.
I think it's a good idea to post wireframes and textures too. I'm interested in seeing how you got to over 100k triangles. It looks like it's probably mostly on the mech, and I wonder if it really needed that many.
The bunny (?) logo on the badge is a little blurry. Things like this probably deserve to be separated from the rest of the suit UVs so that you can make sure they're clear.
Great job! Looking forward to seeing what you come up with next time.
Thanks guys. I will do the changes you suggested, haikai. But 100k triangles? I haven't stated the triangle-count anywhere. Perhaps you mistook the date for the triangle-count(I got tired of stating the dates in american/english/international form so I do it the swedish way with yymmdd)? The pilot has about 11800 tripolys and the mech has 13200 tripolys. I'm using 2048 textures for both the pilot and the mech and they have 3 texture files each(Diffuse, normals and spec). I will post some texture sheets later.
Thanks!
nice man the progression of changes to the face improved the final look 110%.her right hip looks a lil funky but u can get away with it in the pose.
yeh the eyes feel like they need to be set back a fraction, maybe with shadowing, or deeper/bigger eyelashes .but overall you should be pleased with the face as it reads as a pretty lil female. (also maybe the forehead is a lil too sloped back)
and the mech has a rocking sillouette! bold shapes and a powerful pose.
@chrisradsby: Actually I'm not really swedish. I'm persian but I was born and raised here. Your name doesn't sound very swedish either, are you swedish? Or do you just know the language? I've made a pedestal but I didn't bother putting any stuff on it. Perhaps I should. Tack hur som helst! @SSquir33: Thanks, I agree with you. When I look back at how the face looked before I now understand what everybody were talking about. She's looking very masculine but at the time I couldn't really tell. As for the hip; I think it's the skinning giving me problems again. Thanks for pointing it out!
@Goraaz: Yep, I'm half-swedish half-filipino born and raised in Sweden. I moved to England to work for Evolution Studios and Motorstorm Apocalypse. Well I think a pedestal gives a little more background to the character and make it more interesting as a whole. Doesn't need to anything too fancy.
No offence, but i think it's a bit boring to always see girls portrayed as cute little dolls when it comes to game art. She already got some attitude, i think, and if you just pose her a bit more laid back the hole "i'm cute and worthless" fades some. No offence
I'm obviously really bad at painting, but i did a paint over with a pose, three really but the first one would be coolest. Hope you get what i mean.
@chrisradsby: I improved the pedestal somewhat. I didn't add any items on it as i didn't feel it was necessary. @sltrOlsson: I changed the pose but I just saw your image now.
What do you guys think of this pose?
Thanks, Ged. It can't transform but I think I know what you mean, it looks like a macross valkyrie in gerwalk mode.
Here are some pics with better presentation as well as some wireframes and texture flats. I think I'll take a break from 3d until DWV starts. Feel free to give me critique and feedback though.
Texture flats:
nice work, those beauty renders at the top seem like they are just screen res, why not take giant screenshots and then shrink them down to loose all those gritty scratchy edges?
That's exactly what I did, Ged. I honestly didn't know there was a way to take larger screenshots in marmoset toolbag so thanks for that! It didn't work out the way I wanted it to however, I got some artifacts and the transparency wasn't working so well which made the hair and eyelashes look weird. I managed to fix the gritty edges by using refine edge in photoshop though. Also, I changed the pose of the pilot on top of the mech(I only updated the previous ones so see my previous post for changes).
Looks good. I think some nice rim lighting would really help your presentation shots. The edges of the model are getting lost against the background.
On your texture, I would be careful with the AO on the skin. It's pretty heavy handed under the chin, and I'm afraid it might look like she has a beard or something if she ever raises her head and you can see under there. You should avoid dark greys on skin and instead saturate those dark areas to give the impression of blood flowing underneath.
I updated the presentation images with different lighting(the mech). Do the edges still get lost against the background?
I think I'm done now. I'd like to thank all of you for helping me with some great feedback! Especially you, haikai, you've been a great help!
The presentation images are very nice, I didn't see the old ones so I can't compare
I don't remember if you said this, but are you sure you don't want a bit of normal map on the suit decals? There's something about their texture that makes them look undecided:
Are they painted on, they'd have the same specular grain as the suit underneath
Are they a sort of "sticker", that explains their smoothness but they are not 'bumped' up from the surface.
So what material are they, how are they applied?
I think this looks awesome. I like her slightly unusual face. I think a lot of the eye problems arose because the geo around the eye socket was too "gaunt", not sure how to describe, but now that you have puffed it up some more it contains her eye much better. Maybe paint more shadow on her ear region, looks quite bright.
I think it's better on the mech now. I suppose the character herself could also use some rim lighting on her close up shots, but it's not that big of a deal. It's a nice portfolio piece overall. Looking forward to seeing what you come up with for DW!
Replies
I love how the torso looks, that's just a really feminine pose she got going there, it's quite powerful. Her legs however don't convey the same. I think she should have a wider stance. Like she knows she is beautiful and a talented mech-driver.
Try to give us some headshots, be wary of the FOV in Marmoset , mainly because the head might get warped with close-ups. We need a front shot, a side shot and something in between. To see if we can dissect it a little bit more. I think you got a great one going here, would be such a waste to quit now.
Maybe the thing about the face is that the eyes are just so large overall making her look half cartoony.
I also think adjusting the model so that she has a slight facial expression would be nice for the final presentation shot. Maybe not looking straight ahead, etc.
I tried putting treads and stuff into the tires before but it just looked weird/bad. I just went back to the original concept look. Perhaps I should give it another shot.
Here are a couple of more shots of the face so you can see the eyes better;
i haven't put the eyelashes in yet and at the moment these are just textures.
The white in the eyes doesn't go all the way to the inner part of the eye and if you don't have a shader to do it then "shade" the upper part of the eye, and the corners. Right now you have the same white all over the eye.
Look closely at this and try to figure out why this eye is attractive:
The more attention you give the eyes the more attractive she will look in the end.
The forehead still looks weird to me. Like she doesn't have one, like the curve is way too harsh. Hard to tell when it's not a side-view. Maybe you should show a pic without the hair, generally a good looking female will look quite nice without her hair as well.
Look at Mandy Moore, she has a big forehead, still very beautiful!
I realize that this is a lot of stuff, but you'll be glad that you spent extra time going through this later
EDIT: OH Yeah, look up lots of shots of Jennifer Connelly.
Spend a lot of time making the eyes more sparkly, oh and notice the shadowing under her hair as well. It's just like an AO-pass man, to make it look more interesting. And I made no changes to the eyes, just the general shape of the head, and gave the hair more valume, made the lips smaller as well and less defined. Try to make the area under her nose more subtle, might just be this render of-course but still
Everywhere where you can see I used the smudge-tool I changed something to make it more feminine. I hope it helps!
I adjusted the hair(made it bigger), changed the eyes slightly(I looked at Jennifer Connely's eyes), added some shadow on her forehead from the hair. Also I made her mouth smaller and the area between the mouth and nose more subtle. How is this;
I'm working on the presentation now. I'm not sure to which one to pick. What do you think?
I've put an arrow to show where she is.
-Less shiny skin
-Lower, smaller, shinier eyes
-Bigger pupils
-Mouth shape
-Chin shape
Hope this helps!
I think I'm pretty much done with these now. What do you think?
Next time, I think you might want to try to find ways to soften the nostrils. I'm not sure if the space between them is too far or if it's just the sharp transition between the them and the rest of the nose. For some reason I didn't really notice it until the last few images you posted.
I'm glad you ended up enlarging the pupils. I think a little redness around the edges of the sclera (the white of the eyes) to suggest blood vessels would also help the eyeballs feel more "set" into the face. The eyes as a whole are still a little too big to me, but it's an improvement overall.
The base is pretty good too, although the color of the pavement makes the sleds on the mech get lost a little. I don't think most people count the base towards the poly count so you might as well pump up the divisions on it to avoid the slightly distracting faceting.
I think it's a good idea to post wireframes and textures too. I'm interested in seeing how you got to over 100k triangles. It looks like it's probably mostly on the mech, and I wonder if it really needed that many.
The bunny (?) logo on the badge is a little blurry. Things like this probably deserve to be separated from the rest of the suit UVs so that you can make sure they're clear.
Great job! Looking forward to seeing what you come up with next time.
Pretty please?
Thanks!
Hursomhelst, bra jobbat
yeh the eyes feel like they need to be set back a fraction, maybe with shadowing, or deeper/bigger eyelashes .but overall you should be pleased with the face as it reads as a pretty lil female. (also maybe the forehead is a lil too sloped back)
and the mech has a rocking sillouette! bold shapes and a powerful pose.
good work!
@SSquir33: Thanks, I agree with you. When I look back at how the face looked before I now understand what everybody were talking about. She's looking very masculine but at the time I couldn't really tell. As for the hip; I think it's the skinning giving me problems again. Thanks for pointing it out!
I'm obviously really bad at painting, but i did a paint over with a pose, three really but the first one would be coolest. Hope you get what i mean.
And yeah, fet utveckling genom projektet!
@sltrOlsson: I changed the pose but I just saw your image now.
What do you guys think of this pose?
Here are some pics with better presentation as well as some wireframes and texture flats. I think I'll take a break from 3d until DWV starts. Feel free to give me critique and feedback though.
Texture flats:
On your texture, I would be careful with the AO on the skin. It's pretty heavy handed under the chin, and I'm afraid it might look like she has a beard or something if she ever raises her head and you can see under there. You should avoid dark greys on skin and instead saturate those dark areas to give the impression of blood flowing underneath.
I think I'm done now. I'd like to thank all of you for helping me with some great feedback! Especially you, haikai, you've been a great help!
I don't remember if you said this, but are you sure you don't want a bit of normal map on the suit decals? There's something about their texture that makes them look undecided:
Are they painted on, they'd have the same specular grain as the suit underneath
Are they a sort of "sticker", that explains their smoothness but they are not 'bumped' up from the surface.
So what material are they, how are they applied?
I think this looks awesome. I like her slightly unusual face. I think a lot of the eye problems arose because the geo around the eye socket was too "gaunt", not sure how to describe, but now that you have puffed it up some more it contains her eye much better. Maybe paint more shadow on her ear region, looks quite bright.