Then get a Mac-using friend to just cert and publish it for you? Thats what i plan on doing, anyway. (If that is the case, of course).
It would have to be a friend you trust. You will have to put the entire projects in their hands in order to compile and certify it. (as well as your Mac Developer log-in information)
I spent $700 on my latest-version Mac Mini. So far its performed pretty well on iPhone development. I haven't tested it as much as I would like, and certainly not with more graphically intensive software. (haven't tried any iPad demos yet) But as far as a hardware platform, I can definitely recommend it. It isn't as cheap as an older model. But it is quite an attractive and capable little box. It is also whisper-quiet. I was a little shocked at just how hard it is to hear it running. You have to get your ear right next to the computer just to tell that its on.
I'm actually planning on using the Sparrow framework for my first iOS game, but I'm going to consider the UDK for later projects.
Yeah using a hackintosh for published games is just pure stupidity. Apple probably wouldn't take too kindly to someone breaking the license rules then making profits on top.
It's probably also worth mentioning that using pirated or educational software is a dumb move too, Im not suggesting anyone here necessarily would or does, but if you're serious about publishing apps, now might be a good time to get a Max/Maya/Whatever license, or start using Blender. Pirating software for personal use is one thing, but making profits on it is gonna land you in serious trouble.
PSA over, I just thought I'd mention it since the whole 'find a way round Apple's rules' mentality was evident in the thread.
Back on topic, Dungeon Defenders is out now on iOS, the second UE3 game. I'm guessing it'll be one of the example/tutorial apps (like the desktop version is) with source code snippets available along with tomorrows UDK.
It looks awesome, but it's late here now and I know I won't sleep if I buy it tonight!
It would have to be a friend you trust. You will have to put the entire projects in their hands in order to compile and certify it. (as well as your Mac Developer log-in information)
Or just a friend who wouldn't have aclue what to do with that kind of stuff (everyone I know with a mac :poly124:)
Yeah using a hackintosh for published games is just pure stupidity. Apple probably wouldn't take too kindly to someone breaking the license rules then making profits on top.
It's probably also worth mentioning that using pirated or educational software is a dumb move too, Im not suggesting anyone here necessarily would or does, but if you're serious about publishing apps, now might be a good time to get a Max/Maya/Whatever license, or start using Blender. Pirating software for personal use is one thing, but making profits on it is gonna land you in serious trouble.
Well as long as it's your own legitimate copy of the OS I don't see the problem with installing it on your own hardware.
Also yeah, don't forget those autodesk educational licence isn't for publishing! :poly127:
I'm not sure what licenses my university has for it's adobe suites mind...
e: If I can tinker around enough, I might try putting out my udk uni project as a free walkabout demo thing. depends how complicated it all is :P
Well as long as it's your own legitimate copy of the OS I don't see the problem with installing it on your own hardware.
You'd have thought so right? But unfortunately, part of the EULA of any Mac OS is that it's only installed on an Apple computer, that's one of the reasons those companies that sold Hackintoshes got shut down.
I guess it's kind of like how MS say OEM copies on Windows are only for new machines; sure you can install them on any comp, but it'd just breaking the license. And that's not usually a concern for most, but of course it gets a little 'riskier' once you're profiting from it. Especially when you have to publish directly through Apple. I wouldn't be surprised if XCode profiled your machine in some way.
Nice fine Lamont... I was wondering if there was any hints lying around the documentation but I didn't really have much of a look.
So how are they signing the apps to run? I thought the only way to deploy to an iPhone in any way, whether for testing or for publishing had to be done through XCode.
Slightly confused, you can use UDK on the PC and go through UDK remote to test on the iPhone? As in play your UDK work direct from a PC UDK build? Then to submit it, you need to build the final version on a Mac?
Slightly confused, you can use UDK on the PC and go through UDK remote to test on the iPhone? As in play your UDK work direct from a PC UDK build?
Not quite, You can deploy your app to your device using the building/provisioning tools inside of UDK, which will give you a temporary app signed for use on your device. You'll of course need an Apple Dev license for this.
Or you can test inside UDK as you would normally in a preview window, but use the UDK Remote to control it with touch/tile controls.
It's out now!
EDIT: Just looked through the scripting ref for device input... wow, looks like I've gotta go school myself on UnrealScript before I get into this. Definitely doesn't look as friendly as UnityScript.
UDK's feature set matches that of Unity Pro, and I just can't justify spending £1200 up front and hoping my app sells well.
Having said that, it certainly seems like mobile programming in UDK is a LOT more complex for beginners than Unity. UnrealScript is Java based right? And from my experience, Java is not the easiest language to pick up... certainly not as friendly as JavaScript.
So I probably will stick with Unity and just make do without the features of Pro.
Also, I know a lot of more seasoned devs can just reference documentation when they need to figure out how to code something, but as a relative beginner, I find following an in-depth tutorial that introduces programming at the same time is seriously helpful. The tutorial projects on Unity are incredible for that and just from following their 3rd Person tut, and an FPS project from a book I have, I'm able to put that into practice on my own projects and add bits and pieces when I need to.
It doesn't seem like there's anything similar for UDK yet, so I guess it's far more suited to the guys with plenty of UScript / Java knowledge.
creationtwentytwo, Unity supports JavaScript, C# and Boo for scripting. That's a good thing.
Yeah, that's why I've found it so beginner-friendly. I had some C knowledge as well as a bit of web based JS knowledge and moving into Unity was a straightforward transition. While I haven't looked at much Java or UnrealScript, it definitely looks very different, especially in the way it handles touch input compared to Unity.
Yeah, that's why I've found it so beginner-friendly. I had some C knowledge as well as a bit of web based JS knowledge and moving into Unity was a straightforward transition. While I haven't looked at much Java or UnrealScript, it definitely looks very different, especially in the way it handles touch input compared to Unity.
The way Unity is structured is very userfriendly, stuff is very modular, and you can drag and drop functionality on to entities.
While Unrealscript is very familiar, the process of writing new systems in unreal can be more daunting, since it requires more structure and you can't drag&drop functionality :P
Which is why I always favor unity for iphone projects (or much other things too that doesn't require horsepower), because you'll spend less time with technical stuff, and more time in actually making the game.
from my point of view unreal is just less artist friendly when it comes to anything not art related which is not premade, having that said, the tools in unreal are awesome, love them - but what i really like about the unity toolset is, that you can do the scriptingpart in realtime, dunno how well this works in unreal, but i just love writing and debugging while the game runs, changing parameters from inside the editor at runtime and not in script is just great to tweak stuff.
Artwise, both can handle what i'd need, unity might not be the best plattform for AAA titles but thats not the iphone targetmarket anyways.
Something very odd just occurred to me. You could totally make a "portfolio" app and then release that on the AppStore. You are allowed to make updates to approved apps any time you please. (without having to pay additional licensing) You would have to pay the initial costs to Apple and Epic, but if you don't charge for your portfolio app, (and no sane person would) you would never have to pay more than that.
Something very odd just occurred to me. You could totally make a "portfolio" app and then release that on the AppStore. You are allowed to make updates to approved apps any time you please. (without having to pay additional licensing) You would have to pay the initial costs to Apple and Epic, but if you don't charge for your portfolio app, (and no sane person would) you would never have to pay more than that.
Just a thought.
I had this idea in mind exactly...
This is a very real, viable way to show off portfolios. In fact I think it is inevitable. My only concern is of how kindly Apple will take to the idea!
@Lamont - I'm right there with you buddy...I might just call off from work tomorrow to dive into this, hardcore mode...mark my words, every piece of documentation shall be read tonight! =D
keen already has done that with unity, this could easily be changed to be crossplattform as well and it can support android phones as well
the question is, can you import meshes in unreal on the fly? you could possibly load maps, which might be a ok solution but everyone using it has to know unreal and create their own maps with it to work right, dunno if a custom meshes via unreal script, i kinda doubt it but i might totally be wrong.
keen already has done that with unity, this could easily be changed to be crossplattform as well and it can support android phones as well
the question is, can you import meshes in unreal on the fly? you could possibly load maps, which might be a ok solution but everyone using it has to know unreal and create their own maps with it to work right, dunno if a custom meshes via unreal script, i kinda doubt it but i might totally be wrong.
If I read his Richards idea correctly, I think he meant just a personalised portfolio, not a 'portfolio creator app' as such.
So employers could download the app, and it would have the work of the creator on, which would be updated regularly via the app updating.
So each dev would have their own portfolio app, which would be free.
It's an awesome idea... and another reason why it's great that UDK is free initially, since you wouldn't have to pay anything to do it.
I didn't realise you could do that with just Kismet
Just wanted to add, you can do just about anything with kismet. It's just been the documentation was very limited. This new update, however, added ever more functionality, and more robust tutorials.
Heck, last night I banged out an RPG game based on elements (earth, fire and water) using Kismet. You can be attacked by different monsters of those types and fight back using different elements, each with strengths and weaknesses.
I mostly just tinker with it's features, and usually ideas of how to do a major game mechanic pops into my head later using those features. I just love making little 30 minute game ideas. So it's perfect for me.
Just wanted to add, you can do just about anything with kismet. It's just been the documentation was very limited. This new update, however, added ever more functionality, and more robust tutorials.
Heck, last night I banged out an RPG game based on elements (earth, fire and water) using Kismet. You can be attacked by different monsters of those types and fight back using different elements, each with strengths and weaknesses.
I mostly just tinker with it's features, and usually ideas of how to do a major game mechanic pops into my head later using those features. I just love making little 30 minute game ideas. So it's perfect for me.
Thanks for the info CHolden,
If you've got a sec, could you point me in the direction of some of the Kismet tuts you're talking about? Where did you go for your real beginner level stuff? It's defintitely one area of UE3 that I'm weak on. Other than some basic telportation functionality that everyone knows how to do, I don't think I've ever used it!
With those licencing costs its not even an option for us here at halfbrick .
It can be if you outright get a lic for Unreal. But that's spendy, far out of the reaches of indie devs. I'd like to be able to pay $2500 and not have the 25% taken away. The only way to distribute your app is on the AppStore and so you have to price your $X.99 app to the next tier to make up for it. And that's what's going to happen.
If you've got a sec, could you point me in the direction of some of the Kismet tuts you're talking about? Where did you go for your real beginner level stuff? It's defintitely one area of UE3 that I'm weak on. Other than some basic telportation functionality that everyone knows how to do, I don't think I've ever used it!
There aren't many deep kismet tuts. I don't think I've seen any actually. It would be of help to understand the blocks and what the blocks do. UDN has docs on all of them, and that's how I learned... and constantly living in different aspects of UDK.
Heck, last night I banged out an RPG game based on elements (earth, fire and water) using Kismet. You can be attacked by different monsters of those types and fight back using different elements, each with strengths and weaknesses.
Already working on an idea based on this Got a prototype working in Unity. To be fair though, its been done before, and has become more popular thanks to Naruto.
It can be if you outright get a lic for Unreal. But that's spendy, far out of the reaches of indie devs. I'd like to be able to pay $2500 and not have the 25% taken away. The only way to distribute your app is on the AppStore and so you have to price your $X.99 app to the next tier to make up for it. And that's what's going to happen.
Exactly. What is going to happen is people start using UDK then selling their games for much more to compensate for the loss,
I think with UDK will come a lot more "expensive" games than what is in the app store now. Which won't be a bad thing. Smaler indie devs may sell more of their 0.99-1.99 games.
But what I am worried will happen is consumers will shrug off the cheap .99-1.99 games as cheap terrible "value" games. It is already starting to happen, and UDK may push that.
The indie development world of iOS is going to see some major changes Should be an interesting time.
Not directly, but it is helping by bringing the tools to lots of developers and artists.
While I will agree that UDK is fantastic, and the unreal engine is really nice, there has always been tools available to create good looking and well made games before.
Most of the developers prior to unity have used in-house engines, and then unity took the iphone market.
You can't substitute great artists and good game designers with a powerful tool. Shit in, shit out.
You can't substitute great artists and good game designers with a powerful tool. Shit in, shit out.
It's not quite that simple mate. While the people do make the difference, the tech is a critical aspect of it. And within the tech, the tools are the critical aspect.
The crappier your tools, the longer and more expensive your dev becomes. Having worked with lots of really crappy tech, I'd love the feeling of getting my hands on tech that doesn't make a directed effort to thwart you.
I don't disagree, but if you read that quote again, stepping up from unity to udk won't make much of a difference unless you're either way more into the unreal engine, or if you have the budget to create a high end product.
edit: What I mean is, a subpar team making iphone games suddenly using udk won't make their games look better or play better
What I mean is, a subpar team making iphone games suddenly using udk won't make their games look better or play better
A valid point, to be sure.
I suspect the thinking is that a lot of more quality teams will be more interested in developing for iOS devices now that the UDK is being made available. The Unreal Engine has been a standard in the mod scene for several years. But most mod teams who had grown used to using it probably wouldn't have been interested in developing for iOS devices. (since they would have to cut back on model and shader complexity) Having the UDK available for iOS could draw in more of that crowd.
Now, even that won't translate directly into quality games. But I imagine it might serve to bump up the expected graphical standards for iPhone games. (eventually) I guess we'll just have to wait and see.
Replies
It would have to be a friend you trust. You will have to put the entire projects in their hands in order to compile and certify it. (as well as your Mac Developer log-in information)
I spent $700 on my latest-version Mac Mini. So far its performed pretty well on iPhone development. I haven't tested it as much as I would like, and certainly not with more graphically intensive software. (haven't tried any iPad demos yet) But as far as a hardware platform, I can definitely recommend it. It isn't as cheap as an older model. But it is quite an attractive and capable little box. It is also whisper-quiet. I was a little shocked at just how hard it is to hear it running. You have to get your ear right next to the computer just to tell that its on.
I'm actually planning on using the Sparrow framework for my first iOS game, but I'm going to consider the UDK for later projects.
It's probably also worth mentioning that using pirated or educational software is a dumb move too, Im not suggesting anyone here necessarily would or does, but if you're serious about publishing apps, now might be a good time to get a Max/Maya/Whatever license, or start using Blender. Pirating software for personal use is one thing, but making profits on it is gonna land you in serious trouble.
PSA over, I just thought I'd mention it since the whole 'find a way round Apple's rules' mentality was evident in the thread.
Back on topic, Dungeon Defenders is out now on iOS, the second UE3 game. I'm guessing it'll be one of the example/tutorial apps (like the desktop version is) with source code snippets available along with tomorrows UDK.
It looks awesome, but it's late here now and I know I won't sleep if I buy it tonight!
Or just a friend who wouldn't have aclue what to do with that kind of stuff (everyone I know with a mac :poly124:)
Well as long as it's your own legitimate copy of the OS I don't see the problem with installing it on your own hardware.
Also yeah, don't forget those autodesk educational licence isn't for publishing! :poly127:
I'm not sure what licenses my university has for it's adobe suites mind...
e: If I can tinker around enough, I might try putting out my udk uni project as a free walkabout demo thing. depends how complicated it all is :P
ee: Damn, that's a pain in the ass. VVVVV
You'd have thought so right? But unfortunately, part of the EULA of any Mac OS is that it's only installed on an Apple computer, that's one of the reasons those companies that sold Hackintoshes got shut down.
I guess it's kind of like how MS say OEM copies on Windows are only for new machines; sure you can install them on any comp, but it'd just breaking the license. And that's not usually a concern for most, but of course it gets a little 'riskier' once you're profiting from it. Especially when you have to publish directly through Apple. I wouldn't be surprised if XCode profiled your machine in some way.
http://udn.epicgames.com/Three/UnrealFrontend.html
So how are they signing the apps to run? I thought the only way to deploy to an iPhone in any way, whether for testing or for publishing had to be done through XCode.
Wow, I'm guessing this is for test builds though, and the final version has to be built via a mac?
iPhone uses xcode to operate, I don't think xcode runs on a PC, so I'm guessing you will still need a Mac.
Also
http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/udk-remote/id398375618?mt=8
http://udn.epicgames.com/Three/MobileHome.html
Not going to sleep tonight...
Will find out pretty soon.
Not quite, You can deploy your app to your device using the building/provisioning tools inside of UDK, which will give you a temporary app signed for use on your device. You'll of course need an Apple Dev license for this.
Or you can test inside UDK as you would normally in a preview window, but use the UDK Remote to control it with touch/tile controls.
It's out now!
EDIT: Just looked through the scripting ref for device input... wow, looks like I've gotta go school myself on UnrealScript before I get into this. Definitely doesn't look as friendly as UnityScript.
That is what we are doing. No point in learning a whole new toolset when unity is doing fine for us.
Primarily just because of cost.
UDK's feature set matches that of Unity Pro, and I just can't justify spending £1200 up front and hoping my app sells well.
Having said that, it certainly seems like mobile programming in UDK is a LOT more complex for beginners than Unity. UnrealScript is Java based right? And from my experience, Java is not the easiest language to pick up... certainly not as friendly as JavaScript.
So I probably will stick with Unity and just make do without the features of Pro.
Also, I know a lot of more seasoned devs can just reference documentation when they need to figure out how to code something, but as a relative beginner, I find following an in-depth tutorial that introduces programming at the same time is seriously helpful. The tutorial projects on Unity are incredible for that and just from following their 3rd Person tut, and an FPS project from a book I have, I'm able to put that into practice on my own projects and add bits and pieces when I need to.
It doesn't seem like there's anything similar for UDK yet, so I guess it's far more suited to the guys with plenty of UScript / Java knowledge.
Clearly because your game will look like infinityblade if you use UDK!
For iPhone boo is not supported.
Yeah, that's why I've found it so beginner-friendly. I had some C knowledge as well as a bit of web based JS knowledge and moving into Unity was a straightforward transition. While I haven't looked at much Java or UnrealScript, it definitely looks very different, especially in the way it handles touch input compared to Unity.
The way Unity is structured is very userfriendly, stuff is very modular, and you can drag and drop functionality on to entities.
While Unrealscript is very familiar, the process of writing new systems in unreal can be more daunting, since it requires more structure and you can't drag&drop functionality :P
Which is why I always favor unity for iphone projects (or much other things too that doesn't require horsepower), because you'll spend less time with technical stuff, and more time in actually making the game.
The main differences is how javascript handles variables, and how java does classes.
Woah, thanks Lamont. Ok, this changes things lol, I didn't realise you could do that with just Kismet.
As I said, I initially learn much better with 'hold my hand and show me how' approach than a 'here's the manual, go figure' approach.
Although to quote a YouTube comment: "Here come the million twin stick shooters".
Artwise, both can handle what i'd need, unity might not be the best plattform for AAA titles but thats not the iphone targetmarket anyways.
Truly, it was like how people would basically reskin the tutorial samples of XNA and release them on the marketplace :P
kismet is pretty nice stuff though.
This is true. or vehicle racing. Looking forward to exporting my custom levels onto the itouch. Be a great tool for showing off those portfolios!
Something very odd just occurred to me. You could totally make a "portfolio" app and then release that on the AppStore. You are allowed to make updates to approved apps any time you please. (without having to pay additional licensing) You would have to pay the initial costs to Apple and Epic, but if you don't charge for your portfolio app, (and no sane person would) you would never have to pay more than that.
Just a thought.
I had this idea in mind exactly...
This is a very real, viable way to show off portfolios. In fact I think it is inevitable. My only concern is of how kindly Apple will take to the idea!
@Lamont - I'm right there with you buddy...I might just call off from work tomorrow to dive into this, hardcore mode...mark my words, every piece of documentation shall be read tonight! =D
the question is, can you import meshes in unreal on the fly? you could possibly load maps, which might be a ok solution but everyone using it has to know unreal and create their own maps with it to work right, dunno if a custom meshes via unreal script, i kinda doubt it but i might totally be wrong.
If I read his Richards idea correctly, I think he meant just a personalised portfolio, not a 'portfolio creator app' as such.
So employers could download the app, and it would have the work of the creator on, which would be updated regularly via the app updating.
So each dev would have their own portfolio app, which would be free.
It's an awesome idea... and another reason why it's great that UDK is free initially, since you wouldn't have to pay anything to do it.
Just wanted to add, you can do just about anything with kismet. It's just been the documentation was very limited. This new update, however, added ever more functionality, and more robust tutorials.
Heck, last night I banged out an RPG game based on elements (earth, fire and water) using Kismet. You can be attacked by different monsters of those types and fight back using different elements, each with strengths and weaknesses.
I mostly just tinker with it's features, and usually ideas of how to do a major game mechanic pops into my head later using those features. I just love making little 30 minute game ideas. So it's perfect for me.
Thanks for the info CHolden,
If you've got a sec, could you point me in the direction of some of the Kismet tuts you're talking about? Where did you go for your real beginner level stuff? It's defintitely one area of UE3 that I'm weak on. Other than some basic telportation functionality that everyone knows how to do, I don't think I've ever used it!
Already working on an idea based on this
I think with UDK will come a lot more "expensive" games than what is in the app store now. Which won't be a bad thing. Smaler indie devs may sell more of their 0.99-1.99 games.
But what I am worried will happen is consumers will shrug off the cheap .99-1.99 games as cheap terrible "value" games. It is already starting to happen, and UDK may push that.
The indie development world of iOS is going to see some major changes
While I will agree that UDK is fantastic, and the unreal engine is really nice, there has always been tools available to create good looking and well made games before.
Most of the developers prior to unity have used in-house engines, and then unity took the iphone market.
You can't substitute great artists and good game designers with a powerful tool. Shit in, shit out.
It's not quite that simple mate. While the people do make the difference, the tech is a critical aspect of it. And within the tech, the tools are the critical aspect.
The crappier your tools, the longer and more expensive your dev becomes. Having worked with lots of really crappy tech, I'd love the feeling of getting my hands on tech that doesn't make a directed effort to thwart you.
edit: What I mean is, a subpar team making iphone games suddenly using udk won't make their games look better or play better
A valid point, to be sure.
I suspect the thinking is that a lot of more quality teams will be more interested in developing for iOS devices now that the UDK is being made available. The Unreal Engine has been a standard in the mod scene for several years. But most mod teams who had grown used to using it probably wouldn't have been interested in developing for iOS devices. (since they would have to cut back on model and shader complexity) Having the UDK available for iOS could draw in more of that crowd.
Now, even that won't translate directly into quality games. But I imagine it might serve to bump up the expected graphical standards for iPhone games. (eventually) I guess we'll just have to wait and see.