Head model : my 1st sculpt on mudbox
Hey everybody ,
Been working on this model for 3 days.
*basic head shape : 6 hours
*ears , eyelids , eyes , tweaks : 8 hours
*Sculpting : 4 hours
Couldn't progress any further because mudbox lags like hell on +4 sub div.
I would really appreciate it if anyone can tell me about a way which can make mud box faster.
"ps: I run zbrush Normally on 3 million+ polys. - But I can't even get to a million on mudbox"
So what do you think people ?
Been working on this model for 3 days.
*basic head shape : 6 hours
*ears , eyelids , eyes , tweaks : 8 hours
*Sculpting : 4 hours
Couldn't progress any further because mudbox lags like hell on +4 sub div.
I would really appreciate it if anyone can tell me about a way which can make mud box faster.
"ps: I run zbrush Normally on 3 million+ polys. - But I can't even get to a million on mudbox"
So what do you think people ?
Replies
as for the sub divs. I deleted Both 3 and 4 and re-sculpted on level 2, and added more details around the eye ..
I keep checking the refs But their's Barley anything to sculpt in their xD ... My model doesn't look exactly like the real guy But this is still my first time . eventully I'll get better and better as i progress
PS : adding glow barley takes time xD
You already have too much subdivisions. If the gereral shape is wrong, adding details will not fix it. The shape should be almost correct before you go to a next subvision level. You have alreay a lot of pinching on the lips/ears, which will be hard to fix. Draw some heads first on paper to learn the overall shape, watch pictures/sulptures/anatomy books, then start with a cube with a few subdivisions and block out the primary volumes while looking at references. Then only subdivide and go mad with details.
IMO what you should do now instead of falling into the trap most people do and working this one piece to hell and back, is to just ditch it and start another. Take what you learned from this and re-apply it, try a different facial ratio, older, younger, etc. I find that i learn much faster working this way when it comes to anything.
Also i second Johny's comment, you should ditch the glow. It might seem kinda stupid that people complain about it, but it cheapens your work and makes you look like you're trying too hard.
i'd personally recomend sculptris if your solely practasing sculpting, but thats just my view. idk about mudbox sculpting, but id look at a human front and side reference, and use a grab tool to re proportionate the proportions.
And use reference, lots of it. But you already knew that.
In this update i just pushed in some parts to define the bony parts . Now it looks Like someone who didn't eat for quite a while xP
I understand That A Head Needs more wrinkles And That Stuff , But How do I make it look normal Without Making it look like a 40 year old?
I tried fixing the ear But obviously I couldn't . I just can't find A good way to model a realistic ear without having a massive poly count :S
Here's The Piccy And Fine no more glow :P
btw are some of you suggesting that i sculpt the model in mud box from scratch? , If so Then nopes sorry xD I prefer modelling in 3ds
It's not about topology, it's about shape. You can start with a cube to do some doodles, no worries here. Your model is wrong, it's too late. Go down in subdivisions and start again. You don't need to spend 10 hours on a face to train.
There are shitloads of references and zbrush sculpt tutorials on the web/youtube
Here basically, you can see how an head volume can be resumed to some important planes.
Imho use references in your favorite 3D app and work with edge flows and a low poly/mid poly model. I don't think using Modo right now is the way to go
From what I've read here, you're not the only one. Sculpting is only one step in a larger workflow that starts with roughing out the base forms.
I think op needs to spend a lot more time on the base mesh first as there's just not enough anatomical information to work on yet for sculpting this particular model.
I think you should study/sketch facial structure in 2d first and then, when you understand better, move to 3d again. This would be your quickest solution instead of consistently getting it wrong and burning time in a modeling program.
Also, in the latest post, the face is jacked up. start over.
I think what tda said is spot-on, put this model aside, and start a new one. Get some reference of actors (easy to find lots of different pics of them) or from 3dsk or something, and try to copy that, concentrate on the general shapes, don't get lost on the details too fast.
For today I Literary gave up on a sculpt .
I tried To get something good But I couldn't sculpt the mouth , Eye lids , nose ....
Meh Just see for yourself What Aweful Thing I made xD
I understand That Most Of U Are Telling me To Practice Low Poly Stuff First . But firstly I barley know How to use "zbrush - mud box - sculptris"
Secondly I searched for tuts everywhere but i couldn't find any helpful ones :S
I don't Mean to be stubborn or not listening to u or anything like that .
I just find the stuff ur telling me hard to do so please be patient and thnx again for all the CnC
Mheeee, it's like something has been lost to me :shifty:
I'm not talking about you particularly , so no offenses, I know you try to do your best
I guess it's more about personal opinions. I particularly dislike sculpt tools because I think I stayed in the old world of 3d where you do everything by extruding edges :poly136:
So my opinion is : stay with your favorite 3d app, especially if you are not familiar with zbrush and/or modo and work with a low poly model. Do no care about wrinkles, lips detail, just keep working the main shape of the face.
If you DO want to work with zbrush/modo, use a lower subdivision and work the main shape until you have something good. Then, only then, you can play with higher subdiv to add details.
Anyway, take a look at that. I think it's the best face topology I have ever seen.
Hope it helps you
Good luck :poly121:
It is clear that your knowledge of facial anatomy is lacking, and I don't think it would do much good for us to go back and forth critiquing individual things - the whole thing is off.
There are TONS of good tutorials on Zbrush and mudbox out there, but if you're able to sculpt at all that's not your primary concern right now. Look up books and references on skeletal and muscular structure, reference photographs a lot. Read up, and do tons of studies. Your studies could be either 2d or 3d but I think doing lots of drawings would do you the most good now.
Check out Andrew Loomis' books, you can find them for free online. Also there are several great video tutorial series on anatomy out there too, but you'd probably have to shell out some cash.
My main point is, you've got some basic techniques in the 3d programs down, but you don't have the basics down at all. There's no zbrush or mudbox tutorial that would help you with that.
you said you are confused because the things people telling you here are hard to do, and that is exactly what's going on. Making good sculpts (oh and don't get me wrong I have little to no experience in mudbox, yet im going to try and enter into the mudbox comp, lawl) is hard work that is brought to life through study and research. When I was younger and into 3D modeling, I never thought I'd have to study anything and could just go with it and make something cool in a snap...since I started my major I've discovered, the *IMMENSE* benefit of good research and studying what you are trying to do. Your work will skyrocket in quality and you'll get better faster.
Faces are one of the hardest things you could possibly sculpt, simple becuase the slightest wrong thing could make the entire piece faulty and unrealistic. If you truly do want to make a nice head sculpt, you really, really need to go research faces from musculature and skeletal anatomy to different types of faces and how everything is laid out.
I'd personally recommend moving onto sculpting something you can physically move around and study at your desk and train your eye to evaluate depth and form of objects
I too would recommend that you try and draw a face from reference, then turn over the page and try and draw it again, then look at a ref and see what you did wrong. This is one of the best ways to test your knowledge of anything you are trying to recall from memory.
Also do what snader says, start simple and only increase the polygon count when there aren't enough polygons to do what you are trying to do. Like he said, an entire face can be fully defined with as few as 500 polys.
So I realized that my polys were too smooth that "turbosmooth" Mod Killed the details there so Moved Around some verts Around the face .. Added another loop around the mouth
and removed a loop from the ear An suprisingly It fixed up Most of it xD
EDIT: @ tda Sorry I didn't refresh before posting :P
I personally Like Drawing But i mostly draw manga and I'm not even good at it , So drawing a nice realistic Head Would Take a hell lot of time especially since I take around 6 hours drawing a neat manga head :P
I'll give it a shot tommorow Tho
I followed this tut. When Modelling it http://www.secondpicture.com/tutorials/3d/3d_modeling_of_a_human_head_3ds_max_01.html
I know a lot of people in my class that draws manga and anime stuff..
The thing with that is they dont know how to draw a REAL head, yes im talking about that ugly thing you see when you look in the mirror..(T_T)
I tend to find your alot better at sculpting or even modeling if you have a strong traditional art skills and understanding of anatomy etc.. No but really please go draw if your lacking these as these will actually help you become a better artist
But that's just me talking ^_^
And if you think it would be take long/be difficult for you to draw a head.. well, that's our point. It's only going to be harder to sculpt one, and give you poorer results.
Getting good at this isn't the sort of thing that happens instantly, or even over the course of a few days. Years is a better estimate.
This advice tries to prevent the danger of becoming overwhelmed and discouraged. If this happens, nothing is then gained.
I find it's very difficult to determine exactly what that amount may be. You must be honest with yourself.
People examine things in different ways. I'm particularly detail oriented and will fall into a rabbit hole of observations. I haven't the greatest memory, so I need to repetitively assert seemingly simple concepts until I gain the trust I want to hold to them. I start with what the average person would consider a reasonable expectation of where it would be and yet, I will still get discouraged. In metaphoric words, I chew on the fat longer than most people, so it takes me longer to eat.
The fact of the matter is that if you are getting discouraged, you are taking on too much. So, you need to scale it back. Smaller bites are better than nothing eaten at all.
You will receive a lot of conflicting advice, see it for what it is, and just make the best decision you can.
-kp
I said I'd have a go at anatomy drawing , and I'm quite suprised I finished My most detailed drawing ever in 2 HOURS O,O
This is my ref.
And here is my drawing:
the scanner killed most of the faint lines so had to fix it up in photoshop :P
anyways What do u think?
May I suggest you start with something like what Noors posted in Page 1?
Its a great example of blocking out the different planes on a human head, how our head is structured based off different angled planes.
And then maybe modeling that in Maya or 3ds max
@ jungsig : I'm gonna start right now On something like that :P
@ pior : sure I'll keep it in mind
@ shiniku : sorry i forgot to upload a wireframe screenie cuz I was in a rush so here it is
I seriously dont know what else to say either then draw more - draw whenever you have time and yea pick up that book pior told u about
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v242/pior_ubb/Screenshot2010-11-28at124722PM.png
this :
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v242/pior_ubb/Screenshot2010-11-28at124753PM.png
and this :
http://www.mantlestudios.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/planes.jpg
without subdivisions or sculpting - just straight lowpoly.
Drawing all the lines of the muscle tissue is fine and dandy, but have you noticed that your chin is skewed to the right? In fact, the whole face feels a bit slanted. Everything on the left side is a bit higher than the right side: jawbone, cheekbone, eyebrow and even some things that are quite close together such as the nostrils and the corners of the mouth.
Your studies on anatomy should be focused around proportions more than an accurate depiction of specific muscles. Therefore studies such as these would be more helpful:
-quick, perhaps 5 minutes per head
-aimed at general proportions instead of small details
-look at 3d volumes instead of ortographic views (though you might want to do some orthos first to get the proportions right from those angles, as 3d is a bit more complex)
Well I just realized how the shape looks good "somehow" even without proper topology
But I'm not quite sure why I'm doing this ? I'm a big fan of topology :P
K I'm off to bed , cya tommorow
EDIT: @ snader
as for The drawing , I always Get Propotionals Off When Drawing Front views :P
also i was focusing more at understanding the muscle structure of the face.
anyways Thanks alot of the image , Now I Have a proper goal to reach xD
I'll start doodleing some stuff tommorow.
No it doesn't.
Chin is too close to the neck, ears too high, eye sockets not deep enough, eyelids too big, nose too short, cranium too spherical, cheekbones are nonexistant.
Definitely. Great shots, explanation, and handy overlay sheets.
If you don't understand why you're doing this, re-read every post on this thread and don't continue modeling until you do. It's been explained several times. I'm going to try and explain it in more simple terms. Also, to clarify my tone to avoid any confusion of how I mean this post, I am not being rude in any way, and am just trying to help you
If the model you make has bad proportions in a low poly form, then your high poly version is going to look like shit. It's like building a house, without a proper foundation the house is not going to be safe and stable. Everyone is encouraging you to work in a low poly form becuase it's faster than a higher poly form, and the end result of a smoothed low poly mesh is going to be the same essentially.
What you just modeled does not look those examples (and the several other examples that have been posted). Are you really listening to what people are saying or are you keeping an eye out for good comments? You are not studying the pictures provided to you and it's obvious in your work. Nothing of this last one you posted shows any of the same form as in those posted by Pior.
Even Snader's picture is GREAT to study for proportion. Look at the top right picture, where does the top of your ear line up with? your eyebrow; your ear is a bit too high. Studying even the very same picture will also show you that your eyeballs are actually centered on your face from the chin to the top of the head...on your current head, your eyes pretty much need to be where your nose is
Once again, studying the exact same picture, you will see that the back of your skull actually lines up with your nose/earlobe/joint of your jaw/cheek bone (all of those are slightly relative, but you can see it in the picture). Yours is currently to almost the bottom of your chin!
your nose is obviously the point on your face that sticks out the farthest, but also realize that from your nose to your chin is a slight slope backward, as well as from your nose to your forehead...your upper lips from a side view currently look too far forward, but with adjustments i mentioned before they may actually be right, idk...this paragraph is probably explained poorly, but at least I know what I'm talking about, haha
Take this advice as you will, but the biggest thing I want you to learn from what I've said is you need to study and research, otherwise there will always be flaws in your work
This is to answer back to all previous posts .
I said that it looks good somehow as in It can actully have some shape even without topology ... One of the first things I learn in 3d modelling was getting right topology I may not have good topology on some stuff , But i learned that if i screw up bigtime then i messed up badly ... so i never expected anything to look good without certain topology .
And i wasn't sure Why I'm doing this Wierd low poly model , If i can also Adjust that stuff while doing the normal topology for a human face .
as for the ears , Till now I still dunno how to make them look proper even in high polys , I tried Squiric's tut on youtube which seems to be the best . But when i did it I had problems merging it to the head .
meh anyways dont reall yhave any updates except finishing the first 2 rows in Snader's last image . I'll upload when i finish the rest.
thanks for the CnC I'll keep it in mind when i go back to editting the last low poly
a bit of advice for frozencore, use transparencies to line up your model and your references, your eye is not skilled enough yet to guess or w/e. just practice getting the individual forms as close to perfect as you can get, if your going for realism. if you plan model more toon type of characters i would recommend modeling some classic toons that have simple forms that you can be successful at finishing.
have you sculpted by starting with a pre-made base mesh from another artist with some more experience? it might really help you understand why the topology needs to be the a certain way and you will get to play with a form that is already there. idk if it will help you but it has helped me.
good job so far
Thats actually pretty bad advice that was given/taught to you here. Topology is secondary compared to shape and form. Your model is flawed not because of its topology - it is because the shapes and forms do not accurate compared to a human face!
The idea behind the simple plane face is to show how the correct proportions of a face can be described with such a simple arrangement of planes. If you want to learn how faces work, you should work on the plane face till it's identical to the reference and then try and make it again from memory, if you fail do it again till you remember. Once you know the proportions, you can make any face you want.
I like to do most of the work in zbrush, so i didn't detail ears or anything.
heres the topology:
yea it is, but I was saying it could help if you lined it up correctly :P, but most of all training your eye is more important
No, it was to FrozenThrone#6
Only problem i noticeably see is the ear being too far back on the last pic.
You shouldnt use that as a bragging chip , alwaaaaays use references because your memory will always be flawed unless you have a thorough understanding of anatomy and shapes.
Right now it simply shows that you didnt use any references. You shouldnt move from the subdivision level on the left try to get as much shape as possible there. Also look at art from other artists, theres loads of good sculptors out there so...