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nDo - Normal creation toolkit

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  • Minos
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    Minos polycounter lvl 16
    I found a solution to the problem: Just delete all the old files before updating the tool. The older version apparently had a different folder structure and that may be the cause to the error? Works like a charm now!

    Thanks again for the wonderful tool teddy :)
  • DnS
    Huge thanks for the quick responses -- please let me know if this works for you: http://cgted.com/nDo.zip

    Best wishes,
    Teddy

    Works like a charm now. Thanks!
  • DnS
    I did want to add one more quick thing. Whenever I open up one of your example PSDs PhilipK, it throws up a ton of this error :

    "Unknown data has been encountered reading layer "z" and will be discarded. Continue?"

    (the x/y/z/-x/-y/-z changes of course)

    And I need to click through all of them to actually open the PSD. Pardon me if this was already mentioned somewhere in the thread.
  • Irodex
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    Irodex polycounter lvl 18
    Hello! Great program. One question....

    After looking through the example PSD's that were created using NDO I have one question. Are the ambient occlusion maps in the diffuse created using NDO?
  • teddybergsman
    Handy update this time! This one concerns converting photos to normals using customizable presets, such as skin, fur, rock etc. A few "one-click" examples:

    Using photo preset "Full spectrum":
    photopresets_01.jpg

    photopresets_02.jpg

    photopresets_03.jpg

    photopresets_04.jpg


    Using photo preset "Fur":
    photopresets_05.jpg

    photopresets_06.jpg


    Feel free to make your own presets and spread them around!

    Latest version of nDo: http://cgted.com/nDo.zip

    Teddy
  • Arcanox
    I get this error just before the ui tries to launch. Using CS2. The older version (v0.5.3) worked before. This seems to have come up with anything newer than that. Also the tiling function for CS2 never worked, so I always get bevels along the edges.

    Error -29: Uncaught exception show.
    Line 1551
    -> m_NormalEditor.show();
  • jbrophy
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    jbrophy polycounter lvl 17
    Same error here
  • ibarter
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    ibarter polycounter lvl 8
    Had to test it out real quick. This is just a painted texture I made real quick with full spectrum applied. Thanks teddy, this tool is great.

    rockcd.jpg
  • .morph3us
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    .morph3us polycounter lvl 14
    this is an interesting feature...
    had to do a quick test myself and i must say this is really handy, i mean, you can go in and change the layers a little for perfect results, but hitting one button does a great job, too...

    still, only downside is that one cant really check the effect in a lit scene as fast as one generates the map, so its more waiting than working.

    already learned some things while checking the different layer options, thx for so much effort!

    ndo%20bricktest.jpg
  • .morph3us
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    .morph3us polycounter lvl 14
    hey ted,

    got some more suggestions if u want to hear them.

    1. i would be much more comfortable if you could trigger a little window after the master preset is applied which says "converting done" or anything alike

    2. i know i requested the renaming function, but i am kinda annoyed by it a little.
    as the layer name is so long it deplaces all the other file names in the tab menu.
    i made a quick mockup of how this could be changed.
    basically what i am applying is:
    save the variables on another layer, a totally blank one where only the layer name is changed to your variables.
    i am browsing through the fidderent groups, but not often through the single layers, thus the group name (and what is displayed at the top) would be a short name

    title.png(rereading my post it seems there are some problems with the file hoster, refreshing several times made the pictures that come after this sentence appear. it should be 2 images showing up)

    title2.png


    3. It would be extremly more streamlined if one could browse through the different layers without having to close the ndo window, select another layer and then restart ndo.


    Also i'm thinking that those presets have a little flaw, but i'm not sure if i am thinking the right way. but basically what i am marveling about is how the script responds to different sizes of the texture (not pixel wise, but whats onscreen)
    like maybe a specific master would apply very well for a texture with large bricks on it, but would totally fail if those bricks would be smaller on a similar big canvas.
    (huh, does anybody at all understand what i mean??)
    so basically i am thinking, arent those masters a bit... specific to the texture you made the preset in?
  • teddybergsman
    nDo now works for all non-English versions of Photoshop!
    Download link: http://cgted.com/nDo.zip

    Arcanox and jbrophy,

    Thanks for reporting these CS2 specific issues. They should now be resolved, get the latest version and let me know if it works!

    ibarter and xXm0RpH3usXx,

    Nice examples, thank you both very much for posting! Also, great feedback xXm0RpH3usXx. Regarding your suggestions:

    1. This has now been added to the latest release of nDo.

    2. Yes, I'm sorry about this CS5 UI clash. Firstly, many thanks for providing me with the detailed user story. Secondly, regarding your request, this is possible to implement and it would compromise nDo's speed somewhat. However, it would require quite some big changes to the code. In general I feel it is a bad idea to make such a fundamental rewrite when essentially what we are dealing with is a workaround. I do agree with your point and I feel the exact same way, but I hope you can understand why I will choose not to make this change. What you can do however as a manual workaround is to select the "Z-shift" or "Plane" layer to minimize the tab width.

    3. Very good suggestion, I will look into implementing such a feature.

    About your thoughts on the presets -- excellent point, what I could do is add a general "preset scale" control. Would that be along the lines of what you are asking for? Of course, meanwhile you can always add your own presets to do what you are asking for!
  • DnS
    Getting a new error on CS2 with latest changes:

    Error -29: Uncaught exception.
    Line: 2129
    -> var m_Height = activeDocument.height.as('px');
  • Arcanox
    The CS2 update works for me. Like I said before though the tiling function doesn't seem to do anything. It's a shame since it seems to do some really great deep maps. I've only been using nDo for shape overlays right now.

    I selected remove bevels from pixels, and confirmed that the map does tile. All of those options on startup don't have any effect on how the map turns out though.

    tilingproblem.jpg
  • .morph3us
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    .morph3us polycounter lvl 14
    1. Very nice, now feels faster, because i dont wait longer than i need to anymore :)
    But after it says "done" the window closes for me...

    2. Yes, i fully understand! I admit i tried to get insight on what magic you do, but i really couldnt make out anything in the code. (could be because i cant code at all?)
    thought about this layer trick by myself, too, that'll need to do then...

    about the presets - I had the same idea about a size slider, but wouldnt it be pretty slow? I mean, it would need to update a lot of layers then (7 for the full spectrum master)
    also, how big is big and how small is small then?
    fiddling that out whilst having to wait the updating of all the layers in between would be tedious...


    @arcanox:
    it seems as if nDo created the normal map the wrong way? (besides the non tiling issue)
    i guess this should be cracks, not like veins? (though i may be mistaken)

    maybe an invert all button would be handy for those situations

    edit:
    the non tiling issue now appears on my system, too...
    i'm glad the cs2 users are happy now :poly127: :)

    edit2:
    interestingly after having changed the techniquw to chisel soft it works again. then changing back to smooth fixed the error.
    hm...
  • Arcanox
    The actual normal map is just fine. I inverted the green channel since that seems to fix most of my orientation problems that I had with other programs.

    I just used a very high setting to show the tiling issue a little bit easier. If you set the mode to chisel soft, it does remove some of the edge problems but not all of it, so you still get sharp seams.
  • teddybergsman
    There is now a new release of nDo with full CS2 support! Download here and read below for details:

    DnS,

    Good catch! This is now fixed in the latest version.

    Arcanox,

    This has been a known CS2 specific issue for quite some time. However, thanks for bringing it up again, thanks to you I have now rewritten both the bevel removal and tiling features to also work for CS2. Better yet, these features now perform much faster than before. So thanks again!

    xXm0RpH3usXx,

    1. I'm glad! Regarding the window closing, I figured that whenever the preset was done loading, one would like to examine the normal (panning, zooming) rather than start tweaking right away. So this is normal behaviour. However if the majority are feeling more strongly for keeping the window open by default, I'll fix it in a split second.

    Regarding the presets -- I think in the end, the easiest way is just to have one or two extra "Full spectrum" presets that work better for smaller type of details. Would you agree this seems like the sane way to go?

    Teddy
  • .morph3us
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    .morph3us polycounter lvl 14
    panning and zooming? you are not secretly working on the 3D function, are u?^^
    okay, if its intentional then leave it, just wanted to help detecting bugs...

    maybe you could add like 3 different size presets, so one can choose on one and the same preset if it shall be applied as "big" , "normal" or "small"?
    then one could go into the different layers and change the size or whatever manually for each layer to make it fit perfectly!
    but then you could do that without that, too... i dunno...
    or make the same preset with different sizes...
  • Arcanox
    Teddy, all is great. You're a programming hero. Give this man a medal!

    Speed does seem notably better too. Great job.
  • TomDeVis
    This is amazing, have enjoyed using it and so much more useful every time!!
  • Dn2
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    Dn2 polycounter lvl 11
    Great work man. just downloaded it and will be trying it soon :D
  • bubbie
    SO AMAZIIIIING! Thanks for being a genious.
  • .morph3us
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    .morph3us polycounter lvl 14
    cobblestonepreset.jpg


    i give away a photo preset i worked on...
    its using 5 passes and worked very well on this cobblestone texture.

    installing is a bit tedious:
    browse to your "C:\nDo\presets" folder and open up the "PhotoPreset_default.dat" with notepad.

    go to the text end (somtimes the last line seems to bw unwritten, thats because of the spaces in the layer names, be sure to check wether you really are at the end of the file)
    hit enter

    copy the text from the notepad document provided
    here
  • womball
    I used this when it first came out, but it was too slow. Also got the issue of the tons of new layers opening up when working. But it sounds like that has been fixed. Can you clean up existing normal maps such as xnormal outputs? I would love to be able to clean up the normals more intuitively than by channel in photoshop.
  • teddybergsman
    Excellent preset xXm0RpH3usXx! Couldn't have done it better myself. I added it to the new release of nDo, I hope you don't mind!:) About it being a tedious process extending your presets with custom ones, I'm aware of this and will implement a small system for selecting between different preset files.

    In nDo v0.6.0 the "optimization" feature has been, well, optimized. It now performs faster and produces a much smaller filesize and requires less memory consumption. I really recommend you start using this feature, especially when working with large PSD:s. It really makes working a lot smoother, and faster. I will extend the optimization feature with batch functionality.

    Get the latest version here: http://cgted.com/nDo.zip

    Teddy
  • .morph3us
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    .morph3us polycounter lvl 14
    i dont mind at all, in fact i am happy that you like it, i wasnt entirely sure...
    it really didnt take long to make this, so i asked myself if i missed something :poly121:

    well, another idea would be to put every preset in its own .dat file and at startup of the script the respective folder is been searched for the existing presets.
    this way one would only need to throw in the files into the proper folder and you would not need to clutter the interface more.

    edit:
    okay, you said one should use this function and i tried it...
    i must admit i didnt give it much interest before.
    so what it does is that it "bakes" the layers together?
    Without turning back?
    Also, if i afterwards want to save a master preset, will it save properly?

    I (as usually) made a quick test with a very basic texture.

    01.jpg01.jpg

    Although i said its tileable and the bevel should be gone it didnt work.
    But for testing purposes i baked the normal map

    02.jpg02.jpg

    afterwards i hit f3 again and what came out was this:

    03.jpg03.jpg

    am i misunderstanding the feature?
    should id be meant to stay static after optimizing or is this a bug?
  • swepower
    Hi teddybergsman, thanks for sharing this wonderful script.:thumbup:

    As stated by xXm0RpH3usXx already, there seems to be a problem with the tile feature on the cobblestone preset.

    However, if i turn of the "Surface Bumps.", "Smooth Surface Texture." and the "Main Features."(after applying the cobblestone preset) layers i am getting some excellent results when using it with brickstone textures.

    So if you would like to create that "edited" version of the cobblestone presets
    it would be very much appreciated.:)
  • jbrophy
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    jbrophy polycounter lvl 17
    Newest update works great. Thanks again for all the hard work.
  • .morph3us
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    .morph3us polycounter lvl 14
    first, the cobblestone preset is made by me :P
    you can talk with me about it^^

    secondly i had an issue with converting back and forth from the optimized layer.
    not with the preset, in fact on the screens i didnt use any at all, this is only one layer!

    thirdly presets dont generally work with every texture just because its cobblestone...
    maybe your texture was differently layed out than the one i made the preset in?
    i'm happy that in one or the other way the preset works for you.
    though you should get used to tweak presets after applying them ;)
  • teddybergsman
    A new version of nDo is now available for download (http://cgted.com/nDo.zip), read below for information on the included fixes.

    xXm0RpH3usXx,

    The optimization issue you described has now been resolved. What I think happened was that when you had optimized a bevel-removed normal and wanted to convert it back, nDo asked you once again to remove the bevel, to which you most likely clicked OK.

    Instead, if you had cancelled it (your normal is already dilated, no need for this to be done again), the converted normal would have turned out fine. I'm sorry about this, I do understand that you could not have possibly known this.

    Therefore I implemented a fix that automatically determines if a normal has been dilated or not when converting back to a tweakable normal, and skips re-asking if it is already dilated.

    jbrophy,

    This is now fixed. It was also an issue related to dilation, as the preset had normal beveling widths exceeding the standard dilation radius. I increased this radius for now, I will make this a tweakable value further on.

    Let me know if these fixes did the trick for you both!

    Teddy
  • Mik2121
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    Mik2121 polycounter lvl 9
    This thing keeps getting better every day! :D

    BTW, I know I already asked and I guess it's something difficult to fix, but, is there any plan for fixing the language issues soon, or there are other things of higher priority?

    Thanks a lot for all the support! :_)
  • teddybergsman
    Mik2121,

    Localization has already been fixed! It was fixed in v0.5.8 and released on October 22nd. Get the latest version of nDo and try it out: http://cgted.com/nDo.zip

    Teddy
  • Mik2121
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    Mik2121 polycounter lvl 9
    Waaah?

    I have the latest version so I will try it at school tomorrow!. I guess I missed that update, and even though I got newer versions, I forgot to try again at school (thinking it wasn't fixed yet).

    Anyway, thanks a lot! :)
  • Cathodeus
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    Cathodeus polycounter lvl 15
    Got a crash with the new version (october 22th) before the Ui will open, i'm under CS5 : Error 25 : Expected: ; . Line: 1 -> 28]
  • swepower
    first, the cobblestone preset is made by me :P
    you can talk with me about it^^
    Hi there.:poly124:

    secondly i had an issue with converting back and forth from the optimized layer.
    not with the preset, in fact on the screens i didnt use any at all, this is only one layer!

    This is how it become after applying the cobblestone preset and tiled it in blender for easer seeign.
    (layers removed to make it fit for brickstones )

    erroryn.jpg

    However, when trying again before posting this it did not happen...So maybe i accidently did something wierd last time...i dont know...

    thirdly presets dont generally work with every texture just because its cobblestone...
    maybe your texture was differently layed out than the one i made the preset in?
    i'm happy that in one or the other way the preset works for you.
    though you should get used to tweak presets after applying them ;)

    I think there has been a misunderstanding:poly121:
    I never tried it on cobblestone. If i did, it would probably come out alright. (to me cobblestone are more rouned while bricks are flat)

    What i was trying to say were, that applying you cobblestone preset and then hide/remove previously named layers will create a great normal map for this kind of texture. (maybe not the best example.)

    examplexc.jpg

    So if we can have a preset called "bricks" or something with those settings it would be great.
    Its not that i can´t hide the layers by myself. But i think that other (lazy?:poly115:) people would like that preset as well.:poly128:
  • .morph3us
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    .morph3us polycounter lvl 14
    ah yes, i'm sry.... blame it on me >.<

    well, all i said is that you can use presets on all sorts of images, but you most likely everytime must adjust stuff to make it fit perfectly.
    though honestly i think the normal map is a bit blant, i am amazed on how well it got the sharp corners of the bricks, but it kinda lost the rough texture of the bricks themselves...

    i'll look into making a preset for bricks, i think teddy is working hard already, he doesnt need to be bothered with this kind of stuff (though you could try doing your own ;) its not that hard, just a little bit of thinking)


    well yeah, this bevel issue should hopefully be fixed in the latest version, a s stated by mr bergsman himself
  • .morph3us
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    .morph3us polycounter lvl 14
    okay, its late, i hope i'm not writing any bullshit...
    i cant remember having this purple noise in this layer before the update.
    (its the main feature layer of the cobblestone preset)

    FloorsRegular0055_1_L_normal.jpg

    i mean, the layer settings are set to very smooth and a big scale, so it should miss this little grain type of noise, shouldnt it?

    i actually went and deinstalled the new version to reinstall an older, but opening up the same file afterwards resulted in the same normal map (on startup).
    Having this layer selected i hit f3 (on the old version), changed the radius a little and then put it back to the previous settings and it spat out this (so with the exact same settings as the layer shown above):

    FloorsRegular0055_1_L_normal2.jpg

    i am screwing up something... but i dont really know what -.-
    where those noise things on the map before the update, too and i just dont remember?
  • teddybergsman
    xXm0RpH3usXx,

    This is the way nDo works by design. Adding a higher frequency normal on top will immediately fill these noise gaps. If you do however want a single smooth normal layer with very low frequency detail only, simply blur the image before making it into a normal map.

    A small update of nDo has been released, enabling batch optimization (helps making files smaller and much faster to work with). To run this feature, click the "Optimize" button and accept the ensuing confirmation dialog. Get it here!

    Teddy
  • Cathodeus
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    Cathodeus polycounter lvl 15
    Hey Teddy,

    Sent you a mail but never get answer, what about this :

    -Is that possible to put all the stuff generated by ndo inside a group called "Nmap" or "nDo" this will allow users to hide everything related to ndo in one click. Actually we must unhide all the nDo layers one by one ... like this we will be hable to show diffuse/nmap just by hidding nDo/nmap stuff group. I actually use the diffuse as background to make readable selection than convert them as a ndo layer.


    Thanks a lot for your answer.

    Tried to put myself all those stuff inside a goup but after ndo recreate everytime a "z-shift" and "plane" layer. This must be natively supported by your script to be good.
  • teddybergsman
    There is now an updated version of nDo, featuring Cathodeus' great suggestion! Get the latest version here: http://cgted.com/nDo.zip

    Teddy
  • r0xmys0x
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    r0xmys0x polycounter lvl 10
    Just got the new version Ted - use it daily at work, tis awesome. However witht he very latest version when I run nDo it doesn't place the layers between the Z-Shift and the Plane layers. THerefore its all blue until I move the layer between em and F3 again. Bug or am I doing summet wrong? Cheers :D
  • teddybergsman
    r0xmys0x,

    Thanks for reporting! I'm not quite sure I've managed to solve your issue as I can't seem to reproduce it, but I've uploaded a new version of nDo which may remedy this: http://cgted.com/nDo.zip

    Please let me know if this does the trick for you!

    Teddy
  • Avanthera
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    Avanthera polycounter lvl 10
    I was having the same issue, works like a charm now!
    Thanks!
  • Vinterdragen
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    Vinterdragen polycounter lvl 12
    OMG! Thanks Teddy!
  • r0xmys0x
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    r0xmys0x polycounter lvl 10
    problem solved, thanks buddy.
  • Joshua Stubbles
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    Joshua Stubbles polycounter lvl 19
    Latest version on the site is giving me this error in CS5:

    scaled.php?tn=0&server=151&filename=errorrb.jpg&xsize=640&ysize=640

    it runs through the entire process just fine, but gives that error as soon as the main dialog box is supposed to open up.
  • Oniram
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    Oniram polycounter lvl 17
    not sure if im the first one to post this, but typically when im making some normals with nDo, specifically sci-fi type floors.. the normals never seem to be clear as to what direction they are coming from. some angles show the normals as Y+ and other angles show as Y-.. anyone know why??
  • gaia
    very good job ! one million of thanks !
  • animax
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    animax polycounter lvl 15
    Thanks for the latest version Teddy.Thanks for making the tile feature working in CS2.

    The latest version gives me just one little issue.Whenever i run nDo on a layer the document zooms out by 16000 units.It happened every time.Dont know what's wrong.
  • .morph3us
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    .morph3us polycounter lvl 14
    i'm just curious, is this the final version now?
    (unless you find bugs)

    or are u still fiddling around and trying to add new functions?
  • Whoot
    Latest version on the site is giving me this error in CS5:

    scaled.php?tn=0&server=151&filename=errorrb.jpg&xsize=640&ysize=640

    it runs through the entire process just fine, but gives that error as soon as the main dialog box is supposed to open up.

    Had the same thing, this fixed it for me:

    Open PS and remove the NDo action.
    Close PS and delete the NDo folder (c:\Ndo)
    Restart PS and reset all preferences (ctrl-shift-alt during startup)
    Download the latest version of NDo and install it like you normally would.

    Hope this helps.
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