I amazed the guns even worked in it, my dreams I either end up with water pistols or like last night, just constantly shooting this guy and making holes in him but it having no effect.
I think the weightlessness didn't affect the bodies in the 3rd layer (snow military base) because something 2 levels below them couldn't really directly affect their dreams anymore, and they loose touch with that dream.
Well the guy tied them all together...so maybe that stabilised them in the other dream.
Yeah...before the job they were talking about being under for ten years, how come that didn't happen? That part I didn't understand...
They would have felt like they were in the Limbo dream for 50 years if they had waited to naturally wake up. That's what the kicks were for. They wake them up from the dream that the kick was from which was why it was so important for them to time all of the kicks perfectly at the end because if they didn't, anyone who wasn't ready to be kicked from the level below would have been stuck in the dream they were in for the full amount of time which could range from 2 weeks to 50 years depending on the level they were in.
But the 1st level they had 10x longer than in real life, so wouldn't a kick wake them up early, or did they not get kicked out of that level?
10 hour flight x 10 would be 100 hours or 4 days, the kidnapping/ van chance didn't seem like more than an afternoon, I'd like to see a time break down too.
I amazed the guns even worked in it, my dreams I either end up with water pistols or like last night, just constantly shooting this guy and making holes in him but it having no effect.
don't be afraid to dream a little bigger, darling.
But the 1st level they had 10x longer than in real life, so wouldn't a kick wake them up early, or did they not get kicked out of that level?
10 hour flight x 10 would be 100 hours or 4 days, the kidnapping/ van chance didn't seem like more than an afternoon, I'd like to see a time break down too.
That's one inconsistency I've noticed too. It was obviously one day during the entire time on that level. Oh well, it doesn't ruin the movie for me.
Just got back from seeing it, and skimming through this thread.
I think it's pretty damn clear that the ending is open enough for you to consider both options. There isn't one ending or another. It's there for your own interpretation. Much like dreams as a whole...
Anyways, fantastic film, lived up to my expectations and more. The pacing was fantastic, doing a great job of explaining the "rules" in due time. Live action movie of the year for me so far. Lots of great nuanced performances too.
But the 1st level they had 10x longer than in real life, so wouldn't a kick wake them up early, or did they not get kicked out of that level?
10 hour flight x 10 would be 100 hours or 4 days, the kidnapping/ van chance didn't seem like more than an afternoon, I'd like to see a time break down too.
I know what you mean, maybe they didn't use the full 10 hours though? Maybe they only used 1 hour and had the extra time in case they couldn't get him into a dream straight away or something went wrong?
I'm not sure, I too would like to see a timeline breakdown.
Also I think the reason why the lower levels weren't also low gravity is because you are only really affected by the level above. The car in the first dream level is constantly accelerating downward giving level below the sensation of no gravity, but the bodies in that level are mostly stationary (albeit weightless) meaning that the snow level below that would be quite normal.
Some people can't remember if the top ever stops in the movie. I saw it today and it does, when Cobb is back in his hotel apartment after the 'failed' Saito job in the beginning.
He spins it and then holds a gun to his head, and the top gradually stops and he breathes out and lowers the gun.
Okay so here is my take on the movie, and to me this makes perfect sense:
Cob and his wife travel down layers and layers of the dream, getting deeper and deeper. This was real. Eventually, his wife wants to forget the real world, because this is there world now, so she stores her totem away. When Cob finds his he plants inception in her to bring her back to reality. They wake up.
Here's where the movie splits off. The wife was right. That wasn't the real world, it was just 1 layer up. The inception he planted, lead her to realize this. So, when she killed herself, she didn't die, she woke up and presumably kept going up to the "top" and to the real world.
Cob however, who had been so deep for so long, perceived this as his reality.
Every single character in the film from this point on was a projection of his subconcious and when they were travelling through layers, Cob was literally just getting deeper and deeper going down more layers within his dream.
During the movie, they discuss that anything the subconsious percieves as a foreign invader, or a threat, the body will attack, thus the armed gaurds and many of the acion sequences in the game.
When his wife appears in the movie, she represents his self doubt. She is constantly trying to wake him up, that is why she many times tries to kill the girl, who is a focal point grounding him in this reality, someone who was like him, helping him construct this world. That was his subconsious trying to make him realism this was not real.
And at the very end of the movie, when his wife is killed, he effectively killed his self doubt.
So he goes down a layer to rescue Ken Watanabe, and tells him to shoot himself, take a leap of faith to set him free. However, when he does kill himself, it merely sends him a level LOWER into his dreamworld, to his "real-world".
But now, since he killed his wife or his self doubt, he will believe this reality is real. There is nothing preventing that. He believes it 100% because he killed doubt when he killed his wife.
Throughout the whole you were lead to believe you were at the top going down, but your were really just crawling further down the hole, or limbo with him.
And the biggest, biggest part of the movie for me was that by the nature of the movie itself, and how you don't really start to put all the pieces together until after you have left, Christopher Nolan effectively performed INCEPTION on US.
Every single person will perceive this movie different and have different theories. And EVERY SINGLE ONE IS VALID. We had Inception performed on us and what we do with an idea is our own. The End of the movie is DELIBERATELY OPEN-ENDED to support this. Everyone can prove there version of the theory because they take the idea and run with it in there own mind.
Inception is just an idea, it's infectious and spreads quickly. You have to just plant a seed and let it grow in someones mind to develop into their own.
There's a prequel comic that explains why he's being chased: The reason they are robbing Saito's mind at the start of the film is because they where Hired by a dodgy/criminal South African corporation to get information about Saito's company's projects. Their attempt to get the information from Saito's lead engineer failed, and so the SA Corp gave them an ultimatum, Get it from Saito or you're head on a stick.
And at the beginning of the film - they failed! :P they weren't actually chased before that. Cobb couldn't return to the states but that was because of the murder charges against him.
Also, you see Cobb's totem working in the 'real' world.
finally, I don't think Mal is Cobb's doubt in the world, she is his guilt as its stated in the film. At no point does Cobb indicate he believes her.
During the movie, they discuss that anything the subconsious percieves as a foreign invader, or a threat, the body will attack, thus the armed gaurds and many of the acion sequences in the game.
If what you're saying is true and Cobb is stuck in his own dream, why would people be chasing and trying to kill him after his first meeting with Eames?
Also you're saying every other character he meets is a projection, therefore any member of his team is part of his subconscious thus making them not a threat. And yet they still get attacked. Do projections attack other projections? :P
Finally got to see this film today, really awesome!!
I'm inclined to take away from the ending that he's back in the real world again, with his family. If not so much for the sake of a happy ending, than because I want to believe that everyone he met along the way was real, given how much we, the viewer, had invested in them and their story.
Also--the top was wobbling, as people have been mentioning. It never wobbled when it was clearly supposed to be a dream.
However, what I think is important to mention that no one else is bringing up is--does it even MATTER? What if he IS still in a dream, but a dream where he can finally be happy with his kids? If that's all he's ever wanted, what does it matter whether or not it's 'really' happening?
This is, of course, unless things start getting messed up eventually like it did with him and Mal in limbo for 50 years... thennn... maybe reality would do better, and yeah, this all being a dream still is gonna kinda screw him.
I hope that top falls.
P.S. It was awesome; at the very end of the film, JUST as it cuts from the top to the credits--the entire audience erupts in a combined, "AWWWW!!!!" It was really cool having everyone there share the same sentiment all together
Yeah I think the most important thing with ending was that he didn't need to wait and look at the top, he had gotten rid of his guilt for Mal and now he could finally be with his kids and that's all that really mattered to him.
The only problem I have with the graphic is, and its something that clears up any inconsistencies with the rules concerning Limbo, are that there are 6 levels. On Level 4, the Snow Fortress, when Fischer is shot he does not die, he goes into shock and is rendered unconscious, and is in the process of dying. The reason they don't immediately use the defibrillator on him is because if they do it will act as a kick, and instead of him regaining consciousness and being able to enter the vault, he will wake up in Level 3, The Hotel, with Arthur. Ariadne comes up with the plan to hook Fischer, herself, and Cobb up to another dream-share so they can go one level deeper, that way when Eames uses the defibrillator on Fischer it will still act as a kick, but instead will wake him up in Level 4 so he can access the vault.
The new Level 5 is dreamed by Cobb. This explains the crumbling buildings, the reason it looks like Limbo, and why Cobb doesn't act as the dreamer anymore on jobs. The reason Cobb is the dreamer for this level is because he has to. The only other options are Ariadne and Fischer, and Fischer is knocked out and dying. Ariadne can't be the dreamer because, as they established in the comic, and in the beginning during the original Saito job, if the dreamer is removed from their own level, that level becomes unstable and eventually breaks down. Had Ariadne or Fischer acted as the dreamer, the 5th level would have broken down shortly after they both fell off the building (this acted as a kick back to Level 4). If Level 5 had broken down, Cobb would have been kicked back to Level 4 and then rode the kicks from Levels 2 - 4 out back to Level 2 like all the other team members did. This would have rendered Cobb unable to rescue Saito. Instead Cobb stayed in Level 5. When the team members left his body underwater in the van on Level 2, he drowned and died, and entered Level 6, or Limbo.
When Cobb entered Limbo he found Saito, and they both shot themselves with Cobb's gun to exit the layered dream altogether. Death as an exit for Limbo and a layered dream was established earlier when Mal and Cobb allowed themselves to be run over by a train.
* My Hypothesis * Mal and Cobb originally entered Limbo via a natural death due to old age, which occurred when they layered their dreams enough times for one of the levels to take decades. They then spent a few more decades building up Limbo. The experience left them both delusional, this is expressed when Mal kills herself in reality, thinking she is still trapped in a dream, and by Cobb being an unreliable narrator of his own flashbacks, Mal invading other people's dreamed levels, and Cobb being unable to create a level that is functionally anything different than a copy of his shared Limbo with Mal.
Edit #1: Wrongly numbered a level.
Edit #2: Added an explanation for how death is the only way to enter Limbo.
It's the real world. Saito also promised Codd's safe return to America if he incepted Fisher Jr's mind. He did just that, so what reason would he have to stay in the fake world if he can just return to his kids in the real world. I'm sure he would choose the real world over a dream based on how he said he could never duplicate his loved one's perfections and imperfections.
Seems too simple though. Am I missing something?
Another reason why I say it's the real world is because the top doesn't stop (because we're cut out from that conclusion) BUT looses momentum in the end, while it looses no momentum in the dreamworld after years. In the real world, if a top looses energy, it has no choice but to keep loosing it because you can't just create energy. At the end he spins the top and it looses a significant amount of angular momentum over an extremely short period of time. However, years after opening the safe containing the "forever" spinning top, it still spins at the same velocity as it's initial velocity when he first put it in. So if the end really WAS a dream, does that mean it will gain momentum and go back to it's initial top speed (excuse the pun)? Does this mean the top will loose momentum for a second, then shoot back up to regular speed for no apparent reason?
It doesn't sound logical. If they say the top will never stop spinning, I assumed that meant it would always be spinning at the same constant speed until the end of time. Again, this is further backed up by the speeds being the same upon entering the safe and opening it years after.
and thanks for the link Zipfinator. Knowing about the ring helped.
While I agree that it probably was reality at the end, you cant really use 'the top was losing momentum' as an argument. It seems clear that Nolan wanted the ending to be ambiguous and the only way to show that is by making the top lose momentum. If he had of cut without it wobbling at all it would mean 100% of the audience would believe he was still dreaming.
I was also part of the thinking that Cobb was dreaming the entire inception and was still heavily sedated in the chemist's basement.. but I felt that was a bit too cliche. I would rather think that it was reality they came back to because to believe that Mal was right and he's been dreaming all along is very very disconcerting.. The major thing that makes me believe this theory though is the fact that Saito has aged however many years in such a short time span, immediately followed by the fact that you never see them get kicked out of limbo, nor do you never see them surface from level 1, and on top of the fact that "you know you're dreaming when you never knew how you got there" premise of them waking up in the "real world" but never leaving the other stages of the dream world...
I'm just glad it has sparked such controversy, and is doing so well. here's to hopes it wins best picture
It would really suck if it was a dream, Cobb said so himself that his wife's projection is but a pale (albeit perfect) imitation of wife...and he wants the real thing. Imagine finding out that your children are projections, bummer.
Let's say that Mal was right, and there is and other final level up the ones we've seen.
Cobb's real world would be the first level.
Mal escaped from this world by, for what Cobb thinks, killing herself.
When ever Mal appears she has connected herself to Cobb to share his dream, trying to get him back.
The spinning top thing... Who tells that when it stops spinning the world Cobb is in, is real?
If it were his dream (level 1), then he can alter it to what ever he believes.
Cobb thinks it's the real world, the top falls down.
As Blenderhead sais, the top is just a device that alters the mind of the people that are watching the movie.
Cobb tells something what the object meens, the people who watch believe this, though what if Cobb is fooling himself (and the audience)? That's what happens according to me.
So to conclude for my thoughts...
ALL OF STATED BELOW ARE LINKED AND ARE CONCIDERD ALL TO BE IS TRUE (or all false):
The whole movie is a dream.
The top falling or not doesn't meen things are real or not.
Mal is projecting herself into Cobb's dream, trying to convince Cobb to get back/die.
This movie is awsome.
Yea so was joking on the last one, that's always stated true.
And now thanks for all the feadback on the movie.
You've realy cleared out my mind and messed it up even more again
is anyone else going to try and lucid dream tonight?!! :-P
It's not something you can decide to do and achieve in one day :P Took me months to get right a few years ago when I was a teenager and sadly I can't do it anymore
I'd have to say, in the end, he didn't make it out and had died, and death, is much like a dream, making his wife right, in a sense. That he can live happily ever after with her and their children. All he has to do, is look at them in the face.
I was convinced early on that he was actually the victim of inception, and was being lead into a similar ruse that was being played on the rich son, and the young female student, acting as the architect, would be the thief or therapist that was searching for the truth behind his wife's death, I thought maybe we'd discover he had implanted the idea that she loved him, when she really didn't, and he'd get arrested or executed or something.
Great movie.
After the movie, on my walk home, in my dream-like state of mind, I recorded myself with my phone:
"You must forget everything you know... because everything you know, is based off a thought, and you've forget the reason you believe it."
Pretty cheese-ball. It is a cool recording though, you can hear the audible beeping of a crosswalk sign in the background which makes it very ominous sounding. I'm an idiot, as I think most artists are, but we sure can wax ecstatic.
I was convinced early on that he was actually the victim of inception, and was being lead into a similar ruse that was being played on the rich son, and the young female student, acting as the architect, would be the thief or therapist that was searching for the truth behind his wife's death, I thought maybe we'd discover he had implanted the idea that she loved him, when she really didn't, and he'd get arrested or executed or something.
I've just seen this movie. (I know I'm late, sorry).
My theory about the gravity problem in the 3rd level (iceworld) is that he creates artificial gravity with the exploding elevator going up. I know that 5 minutes is one hour in a dream and the elevator probably doesn't go up for 5 minutes, but still...
Now this isn't clear at all, sadly, so it might be wrong. If my theory IS correct, it's a bit of a shame that they didn't make it more clear.
Fantastic movie. Just like Shutter Island, I've got to buy this.
Hmm, just saw it last night, and I can't say I see what all the theorizing is about - all in all it was a fairly simple plot, just superficially messy. I kept waiting for more twists and turns but they never happened, like people have said, stuff like Cobb being the vicitim of inception at the hands of Saito, etc. Instead there were just other predictable developments. Comparing it to Prestige for me sees Prestige well ahead in terms of both mindfuck and entertainment. So a bit disappointed, actually. It almost explained too much, characters conveienently asking the questions on the audience's mind at the right moments, and padded with lots of stupid gunfights. But hell, still a fun idea (and holy shit how did they do that gravity-fightscene??? that was the one thing that blew my mind) - and people always dress impeccably in anything Nolan does
Over-explained? I disagree. When creating a whole new world like this, and the mechanics of the whole thing are vital to the plot you need to explain it. (Actually the only issue I have with the movie is what isn't explained...) I just can't see how the movie would have worked with less explanation but maybe i just lack the imagination :poly121:
In fact, the only trouble I am having with the movie is how limbo is supposed to work... (seen the movie twice, now... Maybe i'm looking for the wrong things??)
How does limbo trap you if you can just kill yourself to leave?
- Cobb & Mal kill themselves to leave after 50 odd years
- Cobb and Saito kill one another/themselves to leave
If you can just do that ... why didn't Mal and Cobb kill themselves right away? (I suppose they didn't know exactly what was going on at first, but they did still know they were dreaming. At a certain point... if it bothers you both to know that your world isn't real... that's when you should kill yourselves, yes? Why go through the trouble of convincing yourself it is real when you can just kill yourselves to get out?
And if you can just kill yourselves - why did they stop Eames from offing himself in dream level 1 because he would be "trapped in limbo"? As if it's a big deal?
How were Ariadne and Cobb able to go to limbo simply by going to the next dream level down from 3? Is limbo by default level 4? If so, they didn't know that and it would be unreasonable for them to try that.
Oh well. Can't dissect such a complicated fiction too much now, can we? It was a good flick Works even better if you don't think about it & just accept it.
Within this mission, the only reason why people were trapped in limbo was because of the sedative. Saito and Cobb killed each other once the sedative had worn off, I believe, and as such, the kick worked.
If the guy had killed himself in level one, he would have been trapped for a LONG while, until the sedative had worn off.
Also, Cobb and Moll didn't kill themselves in limbo because they loved it. They loved having their own world and such. And Cobb eventually got sick of being in a fake world, but couldn't tell Moll because he felt bad because she loved it. That is when he inceptionized her, and screwed everything up.
By the way, the top doesn't lose momentum, I am pretty sure. It was an illusion. It keeps on keepin' on.
Now, one thing I wished they had done: Shown the top spinning, then the credits, and then right after the credits, show the top falling. People would be so pissed, but it would make me worship the director.
Now, one thing I wished they had done: Shown the top spinning, then the credits, and then right after the credits, show the top falling. People would be so pissed, but it would make me worship the director.
I am so glad he did NOT do this. There would be no mystery, and this thread would be a lot shorter.
It's not something you can decide to do and achieve in one day :P Took me months to get right a few years ago when I was a teenager and sadly I can't do it anymore
How old where u when you stoped? Im 22 and still doin. did you stop trying or did something happen or did it just stop with no apparent reason. ty, and im sry for you.
around 18, right after going into university Its hard for me to do wild when i feel so tired all the time, I usually fall asleep without even noticing :P
(The movie only started showing here last Friday, and I only got to see it tonight. What a gem! Thanks to everyone in the thread - especially Illusions - for clearing up some stuff that had me confused. In particular, I didn't notice that it was Cobb's drowning that had sent him to limbo.)
Replies
Well the guy tied them all together...so maybe that stabilised them in the other dream.
Yeah...before the job they were talking about being under for ten years, how come that didn't happen? That part I didn't understand...
10 hour flight x 10 would be 100 hours or 4 days, the kidnapping/ van chance didn't seem like more than an afternoon, I'd like to see a time break down too.
don't be afraid to dream a little bigger, darling.
That's one inconsistency I've noticed too. It was obviously one day during the entire time on that level. Oh well, it doesn't ruin the movie for me.
I think it's pretty damn clear that the ending is open enough for you to consider both options. There isn't one ending or another. It's there for your own interpretation. Much like dreams as a whole...
Anyways, fantastic film, lived up to my expectations and more. The pacing was fantastic, doing a great job of explaining the "rules" in due time. Live action movie of the year for me so far. Lots of great nuanced performances too.
I know what you mean, maybe they didn't use the full 10 hours though? Maybe they only used 1 hour and had the extra time in case they couldn't get him into a dream straight away or something went wrong?
I'm not sure, I too would like to see a timeline breakdown.
He spins it and then holds a gun to his head, and the top gradually stops and he breathes out and lowers the gun.
BTW, sweet movie
Cob and his wife travel down layers and layers of the dream, getting deeper and deeper. This was real. Eventually, his wife wants to forget the real world, because this is there world now, so she stores her totem away. When Cob finds his he plants inception in her to bring her back to reality. They wake up.
Here's where the movie splits off. The wife was right. That wasn't the real world, it was just 1 layer up. The inception he planted, lead her to realize this. So, when she killed herself, she didn't die, she woke up and presumably kept going up to the "top" and to the real world.
Cob however, who had been so deep for so long, perceived this as his reality.
Every single character in the film from this point on was a projection of his subconcious and when they were travelling through layers, Cob was literally just getting deeper and deeper going down more layers within his dream.
During the movie, they discuss that anything the subconsious percieves as a foreign invader, or a threat, the body will attack, thus the armed gaurds and many of the acion sequences in the game.
When his wife appears in the movie, she represents his self doubt. She is constantly trying to wake him up, that is why she many times tries to kill the girl, who is a focal point grounding him in this reality, someone who was like him, helping him construct this world. That was his subconsious trying to make him realism this was not real.
And at the very end of the movie, when his wife is killed, he effectively killed his self doubt.
So he goes down a layer to rescue Ken Watanabe, and tells him to shoot himself, take a leap of faith to set him free. However, when he does kill himself, it merely sends him a level LOWER into his dreamworld, to his "real-world".
But now, since he killed his wife or his self doubt, he will believe this reality is real. There is nothing preventing that. He believes it 100% because he killed doubt when he killed his wife.
Throughout the whole you were lead to believe you were at the top going down, but your were really just crawling further down the hole, or limbo with him.
And the biggest, biggest part of the movie for me was that by the nature of the movie itself, and how you don't really start to put all the pieces together until after you have left, Christopher Nolan effectively performed INCEPTION on US.
Every single person will perceive this movie different and have different theories. And EVERY SINGLE ONE IS VALID. We had Inception performed on us and what we do with an idea is our own. The End of the movie is DELIBERATELY OPEN-ENDED to support this. Everyone can prove there version of the theory because they take the idea and run with it in there own mind.
Inception is just an idea, it's infectious and spreads quickly. You have to just plant a seed and let it grow in someones mind to develop into their own.
WE had INCEPTION performed on US.
And at the beginning of the film - they failed! :P they weren't actually chased before that. Cobb couldn't return to the states but that was because of the murder charges against him.
Also, you see Cobb's totem working in the 'real' world.
finally, I don't think Mal is Cobb's doubt in the world, she is his guilt as its stated in the film. At no point does Cobb indicate he believes her.
If what you're saying is true and Cobb is stuck in his own dream, why would people be chasing and trying to kill him after his first meeting with Eames?
Also you're saying every other character he meets is a projection, therefore any member of his team is part of his subconscious thus making them not a threat. And yet they still get attacked. Do projections attack other projections? :P
I'm inclined to take away from the ending that he's back in the real world again, with his family. If not so much for the sake of a happy ending, than because I want to believe that everyone he met along the way was real, given how much we, the viewer, had invested in them and their story.
Also--the top was wobbling, as people have been mentioning. It never wobbled when it was clearly supposed to be a dream.
However, what I think is important to mention that no one else is bringing up is--does it even MATTER? What if he IS still in a dream, but a dream where he can finally be happy with his kids? If that's all he's ever wanted, what does it matter whether or not it's 'really' happening?
This is, of course, unless things start getting messed up eventually like it did with him and Mal in limbo for 50 years... thennn... maybe reality would do better, and yeah, this all being a dream still is gonna kinda screw him.
I hope that top falls.
P.S. It was awesome; at the very end of the film, JUST as it cuts from the top to the credits--the entire audience erupts in a combined, "AWWWW!!!!" It was really cool having everyone there share the same sentiment all together
The only problem I have with the graphic is, and its something that clears up any inconsistencies with the rules concerning Limbo, are that there are 6 levels. On Level 4, the Snow Fortress, when Fischer is shot he does not die, he goes into shock and is rendered unconscious, and is in the process of dying. The reason they don't immediately use the defibrillator on him is because if they do it will act as a kick, and instead of him regaining consciousness and being able to enter the vault, he will wake up in Level 3, The Hotel, with Arthur. Ariadne comes up with the plan to hook Fischer, herself, and Cobb up to another dream-share so they can go one level deeper, that way when Eames uses the defibrillator on Fischer it will still act as a kick, but instead will wake him up in Level 4 so he can access the vault.
The new Level 5 is dreamed by Cobb. This explains the crumbling buildings, the reason it looks like Limbo, and why Cobb doesn't act as the dreamer anymore on jobs. The reason Cobb is the dreamer for this level is because he has to. The only other options are Ariadne and Fischer, and Fischer is knocked out and dying. Ariadne can't be the dreamer because, as they established in the comic, and in the beginning during the original Saito job, if the dreamer is removed from their own level, that level becomes unstable and eventually breaks down. Had Ariadne or Fischer acted as the dreamer, the 5th level would have broken down shortly after they both fell off the building (this acted as a kick back to Level 4). If Level 5 had broken down, Cobb would have been kicked back to Level 4 and then rode the kicks from Levels 2 - 4 out back to Level 2 like all the other team members did. This would have rendered Cobb unable to rescue Saito. Instead Cobb stayed in Level 5. When the team members left his body underwater in the van on Level 2, he drowned and died, and entered Level 6, or Limbo.
When Cobb entered Limbo he found Saito, and they both shot themselves with Cobb's gun to exit the layered dream altogether. Death as an exit for Limbo and a layered dream was established earlier when Mal and Cobb allowed themselves to be run over by a train.
* My Hypothesis * Mal and Cobb originally entered Limbo via a natural death due to old age, which occurred when they layered their dreams enough times for one of the levels to take decades. They then spent a few more decades building up Limbo. The experience left them both delusional, this is expressed when Mal kills herself in reality, thinking she is still trapped in a dream, and by Cobb being an unreliable narrator of his own flashbacks, Mal invading other people's dreamed levels, and Cobb being unable to create a level that is functionally anything different than a copy of his shared Limbo with Mal.
Edit #1: Wrongly numbered a level.
Edit #2: Added an explanation for how death is the only way to enter Limbo.
[ame]
An explanation of the ending with concrete evidence. Makes the most sense out of any explanation yet.
Seems too simple though. Am I missing something?
Another reason why I say it's the real world is because the top doesn't stop (because we're cut out from that conclusion) BUT looses momentum in the end, while it looses no momentum in the dreamworld after years. In the real world, if a top looses energy, it has no choice but to keep loosing it because you can't just create energy. At the end he spins the top and it looses a significant amount of angular momentum over an extremely short period of time. However, years after opening the safe containing the "forever" spinning top, it still spins at the same velocity as it's initial velocity when he first put it in. So if the end really WAS a dream, does that mean it will gain momentum and go back to it's initial top speed (excuse the pun)? Does this mean the top will loose momentum for a second, then shoot back up to regular speed for no apparent reason?
It doesn't sound logical. If they say the top will never stop spinning, I assumed that meant it would always be spinning at the same constant speed until the end of time. Again, this is further backed up by the speeds being the same upon entering the safe and opening it years after.
and thanks for the link Zipfinator. Knowing about the ring helped.
If you know what I mean?
that. is awesome.
I was also part of the thinking that Cobb was dreaming the entire inception and was still heavily sedated in the chemist's basement.. but I felt that was a bit too cliche. I would rather think that it was reality they came back to because to believe that Mal was right and he's been dreaming all along is very very disconcerting.. The major thing that makes me believe this theory though is the fact that Saito has aged however many years in such a short time span, immediately followed by the fact that you never see them get kicked out of limbo, nor do you never see them surface from level 1, and on top of the fact that "you know you're dreaming when you never knew how you got there" premise of them waking up in the "real world" but never leaving the other stages of the dream world...
I'm just glad it has sparked such controversy, and is doing so well. here's to hopes it wins best picture
Cobb's real world would be the first level.
Mal escaped from this world by, for what Cobb thinks, killing herself.
When ever Mal appears she has connected herself to Cobb to share his dream, trying to get him back.
The spinning top thing... Who tells that when it stops spinning the world Cobb is in, is real?
If it were his dream (level 1), then he can alter it to what ever he believes.
Cobb thinks it's the real world, the top falls down.
As Blenderhead sais, the top is just a device that alters the mind of the people that are watching the movie.
Cobb tells something what the object meens, the people who watch believe this, though what if Cobb is fooling himself (and the audience)? That's what happens according to me.
So to conclude for my thoughts...
ALL OF STATED BELOW ARE LINKED AND ARE CONCIDERD ALL TO BE IS TRUE (or all false):
The whole movie is a dream.
The top falling or not doesn't meen things are real or not.
Mal is projecting herself into Cobb's dream, trying to convince Cobb to get back/die.
This movie is awsome.
Yea so was joking on the last one, that's always stated true.
And now thanks for all the feadback on the movie.
You've realy cleared out my mind and messed it up even more again
This! This! This!
It's not something you can decide to do and achieve in one day :P Took me months to get right a few years ago when I was a teenager and sadly I can't do it anymore
I'd have to say, in the end, he didn't make it out and had died, and death, is much like a dream, making his wife right, in a sense. That he can live happily ever after with her and their children. All he has to do, is look at them in the face.
I was convinced early on that he was actually the victim of inception, and was being lead into a similar ruse that was being played on the rich son, and the young female student, acting as the architect, would be the thief or therapist that was searching for the truth behind his wife's death, I thought maybe we'd discover he had implanted the idea that she loved him, when she really didn't, and he'd get arrested or executed or something.
Great movie.
After the movie, on my walk home, in my dream-like state of mind, I recorded myself with my phone:
"You must forget everything you know... because everything you know, is based off a thought, and you've forget the reason you believe it."
Pretty cheese-ball. It is a cool recording though, you can hear the audible beeping of a crosswalk sign in the background which makes it very ominous sounding. I'm an idiot, as I think most artists are, but we sure can wax ecstatic.
My thoughts exactly. HIGH FIVE
easily one of my favorite movies
My theory about the gravity problem in the 3rd level (iceworld) is that he creates artificial gravity with the exploding elevator going up. I know that 5 minutes is one hour in a dream and the elevator probably doesn't go up for 5 minutes, but still...
Now this isn't clear at all, sadly, so it might be wrong. If my theory IS correct, it's a bit of a shame that they didn't make it more clear.
Fantastic movie. Just like Shutter Island, I've got to buy this.
PS. The top loses momentum... :P
In fact, the only trouble I am having with the movie is how limbo is supposed to work... (seen the movie twice, now... Maybe i'm looking for the wrong things??)
How does limbo trap you if you can just kill yourself to leave?
- Cobb & Mal kill themselves to leave after 50 odd years
- Cobb and Saito kill one another/themselves to leave
If you can just do that ... why didn't Mal and Cobb kill themselves right away? (I suppose they didn't know exactly what was going on at first, but they did still know they were dreaming. At a certain point... if it bothers you both to know that your world isn't real... that's when you should kill yourselves, yes? Why go through the trouble of convincing yourself it is real when you can just kill yourselves to get out?
And if you can just kill yourselves - why did they stop Eames from offing himself in dream level 1 because he would be "trapped in limbo"? As if it's a big deal?
How were Ariadne and Cobb able to go to limbo simply by going to the next dream level down from 3? Is limbo by default level 4? If so, they didn't know that and it would be unreasonable for them to try that.
Oh well. Can't dissect such a complicated fiction too much now, can we? It was a good flick
If the guy had killed himself in level one, he would have been trapped for a LONG while, until the sedative had worn off.
Also, Cobb and Moll didn't kill themselves in limbo because they loved it. They loved having their own world and such. And Cobb eventually got sick of being in a fake world, but couldn't tell Moll because he felt bad because she loved it. That is when he inceptionized her, and screwed everything up.
By the way, the top doesn't lose momentum, I am pretty sure. It was an illusion. It keeps on keepin' on.
Now, one thing I wished they had done: Shown the top spinning, then the credits, and then right after the credits, show the top falling. People would be so pissed, but it would make me worship the director.
The fortress at the end was a hospital. A Fortress Hospital.
I am so glad he did NOT do this. There would be no mystery, and this thread would be a lot shorter.
How old where u when you stoped? Im 22 and still doin. did you stop trying or did something happen or did it just stop with no apparent reason. ty, and im sry for you.
Is this the real life? Or just a fantasy?