When you say what ever price are you talking about the release day price being whatever or the price, or being able to change the price to whatever price? Because if its the second one then it wont work. I buy 50 copy's for $50 and sell 30 then next month the price drops to $30 online and $25 for buyers then I'm going to have to loose money on those last 20 copy's before i start to make a profit on the new cheaper ones. Publishers would then have to do a refund program for each unit not sold at that price. In theory it would work, but the incentive for the industry wouldn't be that great.
But if your just talking about the release day price being whatever then yeah that would work. And yes the digital game would need to be cheaper as i said WAAAY back on the first page. Something like %25 less to give reason for not buying a hard copy.
I like the idea of a buy back program for publishers, maybe for credit towards the next game purchased from that publisher. The publishers could sell the used copy's after some cleaning back to stores.
What do you think about the idea of allowing returns of digital games as well? The idea would be something like...
0-1hr after purchase = %100 money back.
1hr-1week = %50 money back
1week-1month = %25 money back
1month+ = no returns
EDIT:
Qfin2010, Well explained! I love the idea of resale copy's! Its an idea i had a while back but forgot all about! How many people would pay twice as much for a game just so they could sell it when they were done?
It would be way cheaper for them to just sell a fresh copy than to have a service where they pay people for their used copies and resell them.
I know internet is an issue for many people which is why for example handhelds and the console wont require it for their games, but internet will one day become as widely regular as electricity itself.
But then again, I live where the ground is probably 80% fiberoptics and I will die from mutations caused by the wifi all around me.
I hope the rest of the world can one day indulge in the luxury of constant internet, wherever one goes.
Still, digital media is still quite a fresh and weird thing in human commercial history, it's so intangible and easy to copy that essentially it has no worth, the only worth it has is in the manpower and time it took to create that digital information, the media it is contained in is essentially worthless.
qfin: I understand your points, but I don't get your overall message? Are you trying to say We should leave the market as it stands?
One of the big reasons people want to resell their games these days is not just because its so quick and easy, its because games are too expensive. I said it before, you lower the cost and you'll get more customers. Not only that but the lower the cost the less it becomes worth the effort to return/resell the products.
Raising prices or resale copies is not the solution because (as you said) no one will pay $90 for a game, and a lot of people are on the edge of not buying new at all with the $60 price titles currently retail for. $50 was the sweet spot at the highest a lot of people felt comfortable paying for a new title, and this generation most certainly shed some customers when it decided to go past that. Thankfully, the lost customers have been displaced by more new 'casual' ones, and lured in a few others with online play and improved graphics.
But really, is it that hard to figure out why games aren't doing as well as they could?
Gamestop policies + higher prices + bad economy + nickle/dime apps & dlc = poorer retail sales. Simple as that (at least on the console side of things, poor consumer confidence is an added factor when it comes to PC gaming).
But I'm not sure if anyone in this thread has really gone over the negative effects of the whole nickle/dime thing this gen has going, and how its probably affecting the way consumers decide to distribute the cash they have available.
TGZ: yeah, I got into this thread late, so I skipped many of the earlier posts. I was referring to opening day sales. If they sell the hard copy for $60 on day one, then the digital copy (on the same day), should be $40-$50. Problem is, the price of digital copies have not reflected the lack of hard media.
An example would be MP3s. They don't need to print squat to sell you a CD through iTunes or Amazon, yet they charge more to download a CD, than it is to go buy the physical CD. Most publishers look at digital media as competition to their physical media, so they try charging the same for both.
qfin: I understand your points, but I don't get your overall message? Are you trying to say We should leave the market as it stands?
Oh sorry, I wasn't clear. I agree with OP that it's a problem, and any of his solutions would work (I don't have enough experience to predict which one will be the most popular).
I was just replying to a poster who suggested other industries face the same problems. My point was the problem is MUCH more severe in the gaming industry than in any other industry I can think of.
Music/movie industries do suffer somewhat from used CD and DVD sales, but people are much more likely to go sell their used games for $25 than a music CD for $1.
Most publishers look at digital media as competition to their physical media, so they try charging the same for both.
I think publishers prefer it. There is lot less overhead, they make as many copies as there is demand so there isn't any overstock. It never goes out of stock and is always available for people to buy. the price is as liquid as you want it to be and without a physical supply chain to stock and maintain a lot more profit flows right into their pockets.
I think they run into some friction from the brick and mortar stores complaining that they're being undercut which is a relationship they still need. People don't trust digital distribution mostly because the current methods (except steam which isn't on the consoles) blow ass. They haven't matured or standardized to the point people can be comfortable buying that way. They're convoluted, unintuitive and misconceived, they normally protect the seller but leave the buyer exposed.
I think perception is a big problem with people. They would rather put their money in a cash register (even if most people use debit cards), than deal with setting up accounts or signing up for services, especially if they charge a recurring fee just to step in the digital store front. Along with the hassle also comes the risk of putting your personal data out there and trusting the company won't screw you over or get hack and expose your info.
All huge problems they need to address and don't seem capable or willing to do so. At least not the console manufactures...
Yeah, I have a big concern about what goings to happen to all of my arcade/classic games on the 360/wii? is backwards compatibility going to be better or am I going to have to keep the old console.
And steam is apparently going to be on the ps3, so I own that game on steam or just get the disc, patches, and can play with the same people?
Polyhertz, Great link find! I wholely agree with those finding from a personal level with talking to people i know.
Vig, You hit that mark very well, the digital copy cant be cheaper because the brick and mortar stores wouldn't sell the games if the digital copy would be cheaper than what they could sell the product at and make any profit from..
ZacD, Sorry to have to tell you but steam wont be on the PS3. A subset of steam that allows for updates will be but not steam its self.
you know I came in here thinking that you guys were talking about collecting old nes or snes or gensis games or something , instead I read about a cluster of a "oh noe's our industry is doomed for another reason" thread
And here I wanted to see if you guys were gonna mention some good places to find old games!
This Louis Castle fellow sounds like quite the intelligent individual!
While you're preserving some margins, used is accelerating changes. He continued, "I can see the train wreck, it's coming. Pretty soon everyone is losing money. Used is accelerating the decline of profitability for publishers. The oxygen is being sucked out of the room.
The GameStop representative sounds like a douchebag, though: We don't like being in the used business, it's very difficult to manage.
I am so calling bullshit on that.
Glad there are more people trying to start up companies to battle the used market! I hope it goes very well for them.
Wow i didn't know the sales were that high! That's great news, of course who knows how many of those sales are sub five dollar cheapo games. My hope is that by next year the numbers will be the other way around. I wonder if the digital sales numbers can get close to 70% before the next gen of consoles comes out if they will make them mainly digital download systems with the option to play hard copy's as well.
Steam hasn't released any overall numbers have they?
And they probably count boxed games as boxed even if they're steam only.
Considering it's gamestop, did he count every sale of old games too?
And "full-game"... really?, I wonder what he counts as a not full game.
Why does game stop have these promotions and offers if you buy a new game from them you get extra stuff? You'd think publishers would want to avoid promoting used game stores.
possibly because they want these stores to sell new copies and not used one, which is why they have pre-order deals and special things that you get with new games.
Special deals with gamestop ensures they'll do exactly that.
So what outlets/services are they comparing? Gamestop stores vs steam? Gamestop has virtually no PC section in any of the stores I've ever visited. Either way, PC gamers are going digital mostly because retail has become an abomination of malicious and non-standardised copy protections / drm. I love PC gaming, but unless you use steam you have to be ready to be stabbed in the back at every turn when buying games.
Also, TheGodZero, they're only referring to PC games, they never mention the consoles, as it sounds like you might be mixing them up.
I prefer Digital Distribution, and the Blizzard method.
^_^
Those are all good ideas (except the last one... 100+ hours gameplay??)
Only Korean MMORPGs makers use it.
100+ hrs for $24.99 and get extra boost for your Exp farming
Personally I think that EB trading is a good idea to have the trade business going. Otherwise what you wanted to buy today you may not find it tomorrow.
For example.
approx 10 years ago I had a game called Thief the dark project (the the golden edition) I used to play that alot, than there was thief the metal age which I also loved playing. Now few days ago I went on looking for it along with Prince of persia 3d (which is also old)....Turned out that none of the EB games have it.
And they stopped sending stocks of it years ago *crying*
That's a whole can of worms but basically games are technically sold under conditional license terms (that consumers don't know), a car, sfaik, isn't - the only condition on sale of a car is transfer of ownership when it goes into the second hand market space.
The wider rhetoric from the industry is that you don't 'own' the software you buy, you license it so they see it as not being yours to sell or transfer in the first place (the license is none-transferable).
kat: your refering to the EULA, which is pretty much universally regarded as a joke. You cant sell someone something, and then make them sign a contract afterwords saying they don't own it.
kat: your refering to the EULA, which is pretty much universally regarded as a joke. You cant sell someone something, and then make them sign a contract afterwords saying they don't own it.
Oh I totally agree, it's a de-facto bait and switch.
ive always thought its the pricing...personnally i dont see why they cost 3x as much as a brand new release blue-ray for a blockbuster movie... ts not like they generally cost more to make... you could say its that your getting more hours of entertainment, but i doubt that is true... i very rarely play a game more than once while i will watch alot of films over and over, and its likely taht i dont watch it alone.
I buy alot of films...i often buy them on a whim I like the collection i have... i will buy films that i havent heard of that look interesting, something i wouldnt do with gambling 60 quid on a game...
If things were priced as films were i think there would be an awfull lot more room for more crap but also more independent games and new IPs just due to people buying more....
and if they were priced that way there wouldnt be alot of room for resale just as in film sales
Films make money off of ticket sales too, and a lot more people watch a new movie in theaters and then buy the dvd than buy a video game. $10 for the movie ticket + $20 for the DVD + more sales = more profit.
yep but people would buy more new games if they were cheaper...they seam artificially high for me...reading that article on edge (that polyhertz linked) about steams figures when they reduced their prices theyre sales shot through the roof...obvious i know but again its that price point where people will take a chance suddenly sales will go up... and used sales would go down
im no financier or accountant so i may be completely off the mark, but i believe that maybe the high price comes from when they much less massmedium and when the actual production of the medium (cartridges) cost alot more
It'd be interesting to see a bigger title game try for a lower price instead of trying for a higher price like they are doing now. Even if they said for the first week it'll be $40.
Up here in Canada, any Sony-exclusive new game is put at the same price as in the US, that being $59.99, rather than the more common new-release price of $69.99. For people looking to buy any of these new releases, the price point doesn't seem to be a huge factor in whether they buy either or not. (Though, imo, I really like that Sony is doing this--the Canadian dollar being so close to the American really screws us with a LOT of pricing of things.)
However, once in a while, Wal-Mart will put a CRAZY low price on a new release, like $39.99 instead of the usual $69.99, for the first day. EB Games/Gamestop might or might not price match this. Either way, for the two or so BIG titles I've seen them do this for, those games fly off the shelves like candy. So would bigger releases sell more for lower prices? YES. Yes, they would. Lesser-known releases, it's still very debatable.
(And yes, I'm still employed at the evil EB Games. My used and game-protection numbers have been dropping lately, and I've been getting in shit for it. Yay my job! >.>)
yep but people would buy more new games if they were cheaper...they seam artificially high for me...reading that article on edge (that polyhertz linked) about steams figures when they reduced their prices theyre sales shot through the roof...obvious i know but again its that price point where people will take a chance suddenly sales will go up... and used sales would go down
im no financier or accountant so i may be completely off the mark, but i believe that maybe the high price comes from when they much less massmedium and when the actual production of the medium (cartridges) cost alot more
If new games would be cheaper, used games would be cheaper too.
and steam as an example, it's a platform where resales are not possible, so there you are entirely right, the lower prices at the sale did increase the sales alot. (it could also potentially be psychological, "super super sale, but only today!" )
Hopefully this hasn't been posted already, I didn't have time to go through the xbox one thread and it seemed more relevant here.
A study was recently done on the used game market in Japan suggesting that a publishers could expect to see their profits decline by 10% if the used game market were eliminated.
For information/digital products, the used goods market has been viewed as a threat by producers. However, it is not clear if this view is justified because the used goods market also provides owners with an opportunity to sell their products. To investigate the impact of the used goods market on new goods sales, we collect a unique data set from the Japanese video game market. Based on the data, we develop and estimate a new dynamic structural model of consumers buying and selling decisions. The estimation results show that the consumption value of owners depreciates much faster than that of potential buyers, and consumers are heterogeneous in transaction costs of buying and selling used copies. We also find evidence that new and used copies are not close substitutes, and consumers are forward-looking. The latter suggests that the future resale opportunity could increase consumers willingness-to-pay for new copies. Using the estimates, we quantify the impact of eliminating the used game market on publishers profits. We find that this policy would reduce the average profits per game by 10% if publishers do not adjust their prices. However, if they adjust prices optimally, it would increase the average profits per game by 19%.
In all honesty as someone living in Australia where new AAA are way over priced (usually $100 - $120) so much of this i assume i going to the middle man + gov tax etc.
I personally haven't bought a new console game in 8 years since i left England.. it's just not worth it when you can buy used game 3 years later for $15. I do however buy P.C games quite a bit as i like to support developers just not greedy greedy business's.
@Bibendum, unfortunately that article is flawed from the get-go because it doesn't take into account very basic techniques to avoid bias. I suspect the net result however is still somewhat the same.
I hate the idea that used games are trying to be killed off. These days I have quite a large collection of games from the 80s and 90s, and around 75% of these at least were all purchased second hand. Destroying second hand game sales is basically destroying any cultural legacy the games industry might otherwise leave for the next couple of decades
Can you imagine how many movies you'd never have seen if you could only watch them for five years after they came out? How many books you could never have read if you could only read them for five years after they were published? Music that can't be listened to just the same? The idea is simply outrageous.
Yeah this is a huge bump, most of the posts are 3 years old. It'd be better to start a new thread if you want to discuss used games, and let this thread die, or get locked.
I don't mind a thread being bumped to ask questions to or to talk about the old conversation, or something relevant to the old thread. But to bump a thread and say I didn't read the thread but here's an article, it's better off posting that in a new thread. I can't continue a discussion from 3 years ago, peoples thoughts and opinion change, and the state of the topics change.
@Bibendum, unfortunately that article is flawed from the get-go because it doesn't take into account very basic techniques to avoid bias. I suspect the net result however is still somewhat the same.
The article is biased or the study is? I can't vouch for the numbers because the math is well beyond me but the reasoning behind the profit loss conclusion seems sound enough even if the amount may be off.
I can see the concern from a collector point of view though I think we're rapidly approaching a point where games will be able to live on forever as digital downloads though even long after the console it was originally released on dies because publishers/developers are becoming more forward thinking, knowing that their game can be sold almost forever through a digital storefront at no cost to them provided they created the game in a way that wouldn't be too difficult to port. Less popular products will always fall through the cracks though.
I don't mind a thread being bumped to ask questions to or to talk about the old conversation, or something relevant to the old thread. But to bump a thread and say I didn't read the thread but here's an article, it's better off posting that in a new thread. I can't continue a discussion from 3 years ago, peoples thoughts and opinion change, and the state of the topics change.
The tropes vs. women thread is well over a year old, lots of peoples thoughts have changed including mine, but it lives on and no one is calling for new topics to be made about it. People ignore the earlier pages and only read the recent posts.
I mentioned the xbox one thread only because it was the most recent thread on the forum that had a tangent in it about used games, however the thread itself was not about used games but about the xbox one. My post didn't seem to belong there.
I'm sorry my decision was not to your satisfaction. Even if the posts are dated and peoples thoughts may have evolved many of the ideas in this thread live on today and I'd hoped that others might find the study at the very least interesting if not thought provoking.
Replies
But if your just talking about the release day price being whatever then yeah that would work. And yes the digital game would need to be cheaper as i said WAAAY back on the first page. Something like %25 less to give reason for not buying a hard copy.
I like the idea of a buy back program for publishers, maybe for credit towards the next game purchased from that publisher. The publishers could sell the used copy's after some cleaning back to stores.
What do you think about the idea of allowing returns of digital games as well? The idea would be something like...
0-1hr after purchase = %100 money back.
1hr-1week = %50 money back
1week-1month = %25 money back
1month+ = no returns
EDIT:
Qfin2010, Well explained! I love the idea of resale copy's! Its an idea i had a while back but forgot all about! How many people would pay twice as much for a game just so they could sell it when they were done?
I know internet is an issue for many people which is why for example handhelds and the console wont require it for their games, but internet will one day become as widely regular as electricity itself.
But then again, I live where the ground is probably 80% fiberoptics and I will die from mutations caused by the wifi all around me.
I hope the rest of the world can one day indulge in the luxury of constant internet, wherever one goes.
Still, digital media is still quite a fresh and weird thing in human commercial history, it's so intangible and easy to copy that essentially it has no worth, the only worth it has is in the manpower and time it took to create that digital information, the media it is contained in is essentially worthless.
One of the big reasons people want to resell their games these days is not just because its so quick and easy, its because games are too expensive. I said it before, you lower the cost and you'll get more customers. Not only that but the lower the cost the less it becomes worth the effort to return/resell the products.
Raising prices or resale copies is not the solution because (as you said) no one will pay $90 for a game, and a lot of people are on the edge of not buying new at all with the $60 price titles currently retail for. $50 was the sweet spot at the highest a lot of people felt comfortable paying for a new title, and this generation most certainly shed some customers when it decided to go past that. Thankfully, the lost customers have been displaced by more new 'casual' ones, and lured in a few others with online play and improved graphics.
But really, is it that hard to figure out why games aren't doing as well as they could?
Gamestop policies + higher prices + bad economy + nickle/dime apps & dlc = poorer retail sales. Simple as that (at least on the console side of things, poor consumer confidence is an added factor when it comes to PC gaming).
But I'm not sure if anyone in this thread has really gone over the negative effects of the whole nickle/dime thing this gen has going, and how its probably affecting the way consumers decide to distribute the cash they have available.
An example would be MP3s. They don't need to print squat to sell you a CD through iTunes or Amazon, yet they charge more to download a CD, than it is to go buy the physical CD. Most publishers look at digital media as competition to their physical media, so they try charging the same for both.
Oh sorry, I wasn't clear. I agree with OP that it's a problem, and any of his solutions would work (I don't have enough experience to predict which one will be the most popular).
I was just replying to a poster who suggested other industries face the same problems. My point was the problem is MUCH more severe in the gaming industry than in any other industry I can think of.
Music/movie industries do suffer somewhat from used CD and DVD sales, but people are much more likely to go sell their used games for $25 than a music CD for $1.
http://hardware.slashdot.org/story/10/07/02/2032228/Most-Console-Gamers-Still-Prefer-Physical-Media?art_pos=11
I think they run into some friction from the brick and mortar stores complaining that they're being undercut which is a relationship they still need. People don't trust digital distribution mostly because the current methods (except steam which isn't on the consoles) blow ass. They haven't matured or standardized to the point people can be comfortable buying that way. They're convoluted, unintuitive and misconceived, they normally protect the seller but leave the buyer exposed.
I think perception is a big problem with people. They would rather put their money in a cash register (even if most people use debit cards), than deal with setting up accounts or signing up for services, especially if they charge a recurring fee just to step in the digital store front. Along with the hassle also comes the risk of putting your personal data out there and trusting the company won't screw you over or get hack and expose your info.
All huge problems they need to address and don't seem capable or willing to do so. At least not the console manufactures...
And steam is apparently going to be on the ps3, so I own that game on steam or just get the disc, patches, and can play with the same people?
Vig, You hit that mark very well, the digital copy cant be cheaper because the brick and mortar stores wouldn't sell the games if the digital copy would be cheaper than what they could sell the product at and make any profit from..
ZacD, Sorry to have to tell you but steam wont be on the PS3. A subset of steam that allows for updates will be but not steam its self.
And here I wanted to see if you guys were gonna mention some good places to find old games!
phooy!
http://www.gamepolitics.com/2010/07/13/retailer-and-tech-developer-battle-over-used-games
While you're preserving some margins, used is accelerating changes. He continued, "I can see the train wreck, it's coming. Pretty soon everyone is losing money. Used is accelerating the decline of profitability for publishers. The oxygen is being sucked out of the room.
The GameStop representative sounds like a douchebag, though: We don't like being in the used business, it's very difficult to manage.
I am so calling bullshit on that.
Glad there are more people trying to start up companies to battle the used market! I hope it goes very well for them.
"...21.3 million "full-game" PC titles downloaded (legally) in 2009 and 23.5 million boxed copies sold."
Wow i didn't know the sales were that high! That's great news, of course who knows how many of those sales are sub five dollar cheapo games. My hope is that by next year the numbers will be the other way around. I wonder if the digital sales numbers can get close to 70% before the next gen of consoles comes out if they will make them mainly digital download systems with the option to play hard copy's as well.
Steam hasn't released any overall numbers have they?
And they probably count boxed games as boxed even if they're steam only.
Considering it's gamestop, did he count every sale of old games too?
And "full-game"... really?, I wonder what he counts as a not full game.
Special deals with gamestop ensures they'll do exactly that.
Also, TheGodZero, they're only referring to PC games, they never mention the consoles, as it sounds like you might be mixing them up.
...ok i was mixing them up.
Only Korean MMORPGs makers use it.
100+ hrs for $24.99 and get extra boost for your Exp farming
Personally I think that EB trading is a good idea to have the trade business going. Otherwise what you wanted to buy today you may not find it tomorrow.
For example.
approx 10 years ago I had a game called Thief the dark project (the the golden edition) I used to play that alot, than there was thief the metal age which I also loved playing. Now few days ago I went on looking for it along with Prince of persia 3d (which is also old)....Turned out that none of the EB games have it.
And they stopped sending stocks of it years ago *crying*
BTW, I ONLY buy used games. Ha.
The wider rhetoric from the industry is that you don't 'own' the software you buy, you license it so they see it as not being yours to sell or transfer in the first place (the license is none-transferable).
I tend to make sure I buy original and indy/smaller games, I'll only rent or buy used rehashed games like CoD or madden.
ive always thought its the pricing...personnally i dont see why they cost 3x as much as a brand new release blue-ray for a blockbuster movie... ts not like they generally cost more to make... you could say its that your getting more hours of entertainment, but i doubt that is true... i very rarely play a game more than once while i will watch alot of films over and over, and its likely taht i dont watch it alone.
I buy alot of films...i often buy them on a whim I like the collection i have... i will buy films that i havent heard of that look interesting, something i wouldnt do with gambling 60 quid on a game...
If things were priced as films were i think there would be an awfull lot more room for more crap but also more independent games and new IPs just due to people buying more....
and if they were priced that way there wouldnt be alot of room for resale just as in film sales
its funny all the games i have really enjoyed recently have been bought for less than £20 except RDR which was free
im no financier or accountant so i may be completely off the mark, but i believe that maybe the high price comes from when they much less massmedium and when the actual production of the medium (cartridges) cost alot more
However, once in a while, Wal-Mart will put a CRAZY low price on a new release, like $39.99 instead of the usual $69.99, for the first day. EB Games/Gamestop might or might not price match this. Either way, for the two or so BIG titles I've seen them do this for, those games fly off the shelves like candy. So would bigger releases sell more for lower prices? YES. Yes, they would. Lesser-known releases, it's still very debatable.
(And yes, I'm still employed at the evil EB Games. My used and game-protection numbers have been dropping lately, and I've been getting in shit for it. Yay my job! >.>)
If new games would be cheaper, used games would be cheaper too.
and steam as an example, it's a platform where resales are not possible, so there you are entirely right, the lower prices at the sale did increase the sales alot. (it could also potentially be psychological, "super super sale, but only today!" )
A study was recently done on the used game market in Japan suggesting that a publishers could expect to see their profits decline by 10% if the used game market were eliminated.
Another article on the study: http://www.wired.com/gamelife/2013/05/nyu-used-games-study/
I personally haven't bought a new console game in 8 years since i left England.. it's just not worth it when you can buy used game 3 years later for $15. I do however buy P.C games quite a bit as i like to support developers just not greedy greedy business's.
I hate the idea that used games are trying to be killed off. These days I have quite a large collection of games from the 80s and 90s, and around 75% of these at least were all purchased second hand. Destroying second hand game sales is basically destroying any cultural legacy the games industry might otherwise leave for the next couple of decades
Can you imagine how many movies you'd never have seen if you could only watch them for five years after they came out? How many books you could never have read if you could only read them for five years after they were published? Music that can't be listened to just the same? The idea is simply outrageous.
I think he was referring to another thread there:
I can see the concern from a collector point of view though I think we're rapidly approaching a point where games will be able to live on forever as digital downloads though even long after the console it was originally released on dies because publishers/developers are becoming more forward thinking, knowing that their game can be sold almost forever through a digital storefront at no cost to them provided they created the game in a way that wouldn't be too difficult to port. Less popular products will always fall through the cracks though.
The tropes vs. women thread is well over a year old, lots of peoples thoughts have changed including mine, but it lives on and no one is calling for new topics to be made about it. People ignore the earlier pages and only read the recent posts.
I mentioned the xbox one thread only because it was the most recent thread on the forum that had a tangent in it about used games, however the thread itself was not about used games but about the xbox one. My post didn't seem to belong there.
I'm sorry my decision was not to your satisfaction. Even if the posts are dated and peoples thoughts may have evolved many of the ideas in this thread live on today and I'd hoped that others might find the study at the very least interesting if not thought provoking.