Questions about getting into the industry, college, freelancing, please help.
Hi I would like some guidance... I am 17 and have been accepted to a Uni, I believe I'm going to major in whatever they have closest to game art... I'm looking to work as a character artist but anyways here are the questions I have pertaining to that. At the end I'll state what I am leaning for with what I know right now, and hopefully after some replies I can make a more educated decision with my family.
- Is it actually gonna help me find work? Will having a general education, a bachelors or going the whole 5 years for a masters going to help me A) get a higher salary from the start,
get into the industry quicker? Or will it just make it harder on me to spend the time necessary to build up a portfolio worth showing? I know the whole having an education and being a smart guy thing is appealing, but is it gonna really help me accomplish my dream of working on games?
- Should I go to something like the gnomon schools? It's a lot of money but maybe a quick course gives benefits such as allowing easier access to working for a game company, or perhaps a structured work regime could help me get better so much faster. I don't know.
- I don't know if I want to freelance or work at a game studio. Money is always a factor, but there is another factor that may or may not be well received here.. I do not want to work on bad games. Do I have a choice in that if I am at a game studio? I'm not expecting to work at valve or something but I don't know if I could pour my soul into a creation knowing that it will be some horrible movie game that I wouldn't be able to play through. If I freelance I get the bonus of being at my house but the negative of no social interaction, but that way I am not connected to the game or the movie or whatever I am making something for, so I lose out on the chance of being a part of a great team for a great game.
I think that's all the questions I have but I might add on later.. Right now what I'm looking at is working as hard as ever to get a portfolio done asap, freelance all next summer and then look for a studio job if thats what I want to do. I don't know if I want to risk everything like that, I have nothing to fall back on if I am unable of getting a job, I want nothing more than to be a 3d artist but my 2 projects so far have gone really slow. And if I do go to Uni, for however long, chances are I won't be able to maintain a 3d practice schedule as long as I want too, and maybe something new comes along that revolutionizes the workflow to build games and I don't have enough time to catch on to it because I am at college. And hell, why is this coming up so late you ask? I mean I already am accepted to uni.. well its because I never really understood how close it was until just today. feels like yesterday I was trying to learn this stuff and stay afloat, now I gotta talk about getting a job and making decisions that will change everything. I gladly accept the challenge but well, I hope someone helps me lol.
Thanks for reading I'll post this on a couple forums so I can get the broadest set of answers.
- Is it actually gonna help me find work? Will having a general education, a bachelors or going the whole 5 years for a masters going to help me A) get a higher salary from the start,
get into the industry quicker? Or will it just make it harder on me to spend the time necessary to build up a portfolio worth showing? I know the whole having an education and being a smart guy thing is appealing, but is it gonna really help me accomplish my dream of working on games?- Should I go to something like the gnomon schools? It's a lot of money but maybe a quick course gives benefits such as allowing easier access to working for a game company, or perhaps a structured work regime could help me get better so much faster. I don't know.
- I don't know if I want to freelance or work at a game studio. Money is always a factor, but there is another factor that may or may not be well received here.. I do not want to work on bad games. Do I have a choice in that if I am at a game studio? I'm not expecting to work at valve or something but I don't know if I could pour my soul into a creation knowing that it will be some horrible movie game that I wouldn't be able to play through. If I freelance I get the bonus of being at my house but the negative of no social interaction, but that way I am not connected to the game or the movie or whatever I am making something for, so I lose out on the chance of being a part of a great team for a great game.
I think that's all the questions I have but I might add on later.. Right now what I'm looking at is working as hard as ever to get a portfolio done asap, freelance all next summer and then look for a studio job if thats what I want to do. I don't know if I want to risk everything like that, I have nothing to fall back on if I am unable of getting a job, I want nothing more than to be a 3d artist but my 2 projects so far have gone really slow. And if I do go to Uni, for however long, chances are I won't be able to maintain a 3d practice schedule as long as I want too, and maybe something new comes along that revolutionizes the workflow to build games and I don't have enough time to catch on to it because I am at college. And hell, why is this coming up so late you ask? I mean I already am accepted to uni.. well its because I never really understood how close it was until just today. feels like yesterday I was trying to learn this stuff and stay afloat, now I gotta talk about getting a job and making decisions that will change everything. I gladly accept the challenge but well, I hope someone helps me lol.
Thanks for reading I'll post this on a couple forums so I can get the broadest set of answers.
Replies
I'm 19 myself, didn't do the 4 year university route (just did community college (mostly traditional art classes)), but I recently got my first intern with a animation studio (in a city that probably only has 4 studios :P), so there's many routes and ways to get into the industry, you just got to decide what you want to do.
You're a kid still (hell, I still am too (fuck it, we are all pretty much kids here)) live life how you want to. If you wanna go to uni, party it up, live like a typical college student, then do it, because this is your only chance.
But for getting a job, the games industry, there is no standard or straight forward path to breaking in. A degree isn't required, and a there's a lot of crappy game art programs/degrees out there. First off, if you're looking at going to a uni, ask to see some sort of show reel to see how good the artist the program is producing. The down sides of a university are less time spent on your focus, and its a long time investment.
if you decide not to go to a normal university, they you really have 2 options, self teaching or taking some sort of game art program. A lot of the game art courses can get pretty expensive, and not all of them have people that are currently working in the industry (I think that's important, the industry is constantly changing).
Since you are thinking about doing the self teaching route, I suggest showing us some of your work, it'll help us know if your on the right track and if you should be able to land an intern quickly. A key to self teaching is having peers/a community to critic your work and give you helpful feedback.
Welcome again and I hope my advice helps.
Short answer, no. People aren't going to be looking at or degree as much as they'll be looking at your portfolio. In all honesty if you really want to do game art it's going to hinder you. If you aren't sure about taking the plunge into videogame art I suggest you look around, because it's do or don't. You can even work a normal job while building up a portfolio.
-Question 2
I would say yes. Gnomon is an excellent choice, and it's definitely on my map for a college. But the thing is it doesn't matter where you go (to an extent) but how much effort and long nights you put into it. If you don't know for sure it's time to dig deep inside of yourself.
-Question3
Game studios sometimes hire contract artists, but no you won't feel like you're apart of it. I wouldn't be too worried about working on "bad games" until you crank out a portfolio that would shame someone else's. Everyone has to start somewhere.
-Question4
The only thing I can say is you're at a crossroads and you need to make a choice. If you really, really like 3D art you need to research more about the industry and what not and see whether or not you want it to be a hobby or the real deal.
Edit:{For some reason on chrome the site keeps telling me I need to shorten my post by 1 character, heres what I could cut it down too}
-Possibly, I used VFS to jumpstart into the industry as I was a hobbyist modeler prior
-experience is experience, you can't be nit picky when your new into the industry. Unless you got a blistering hot portfolio, your options will be limited
Here's an audi I rendered today, it was my first project after the aforementioned serious modeling phase but I hadn't touched it for a few months until yesterday, trying to perfect the render setup.
and after that I've been working on Rorschach, this is where he's currently at.
Moosey G.. Thanks I really would have never thought that degrees are not so important.. I'll think about Gnomon and there's no doubt in my mind that I want the real deal.
Rwolf: Thanks I see..
My biggest concern after reading these replies is frankly whether or not I'm good enough to keep building and get a job as soon as I can. Now I feel like even if I'm not I will do whatever is necessary to get better, but the doubt instilled at a young age because I was really really bad when I was starting out. This would have been such an easier decision if I wasn't already accepted to a university. I don't want to waste 5 years of my life learning useless information, everything I have wanted to know since middle school I have found out online, but it isn't easy to say that I am in fact good at 3d if 1) I don't know and 2)to say it to my parents when they have no idea what is good topology on a 3d model etc...
oh ps don't visit the website in the audi render theres nothing there. Just trying to make it seem professional lol
Yeah I will talk to them tomorrow.. I know that Zac asked for the past work thing to try and see if I'm on the right track but please feel free to comment on the images I posted.. I want to be a badass and say that I can honestly evaluate my own work, but I've tried and I can't. Am I on the right track? The thing stopping me from being decisive is simply that I want to work right away as soon as possible, but am I good enough to be able to get a job? I know you can't predict the future and how much I may improve but like right now perhaps someone can point out some signs in my work that may give some hope to getting an internship.
Depends. It never hurts to have a background in a more reliable job market. I've had a classmate from VFS that has yet to make it into the industry after 3 years since we've graduated, but still has a engineering job to support himself and his family.
Both used Maya. In fact every game design course on gnomon schools used maya too, I guess my next project will be learning Maya...
Environment artist for insomniac says I need Bachelor's degree (B.A.) from a four-year college or university; or three to five years related experience and/or training; or equivalent combination of education and experience.The other one says Candidates must be pursuing a Bachelor's degree in Art, Graphic Design or related fields.
Also both of them fall into the 50,000 salary or less category. I only used Indeed.com to research this but I don't know I hope it's only that low because they seem to be temporary jobs. But I couldn't find anything else in my area so I don't know. It seems kind of weird that there's a gnomon school right here in hollywood but using indeed I only see 2 places hiring.
A lot of the times even if they say it requires a BA, real work experience is better.
You can always email studios and ask them questions about what they are looking for in future employees, most of the time they are happy to help and/or answer any questions.
- chance to be cool with people that share my goals, I never met anyone in my life that actually looks at me and knows what I'm talking about when I start talking about 3d.
- learn skills that I simply wouldn't, like history of art and so on
- keep 4 years of my childhood. Well alright my childhood is over but either way I don't think im ready for a real job, i dont even know how to drive yet simply because learning how would mean that I grew up way faster than I wanted too. time flew by damn
Anyways I do hope to join a mod or indie team in the near future and start honing my skills there, but going to Uni definitely seems like the route for me. Thanks to everyone who replied!
Cost isn't really a problem because I have financial aid already, so I'd just have to transfer it and that's not a problem I think. Just wish there was a school close to me..
Don't know what I can do, has anyone in LA gone to a good school in the Valley? Can I get a job in a few months without going to a school? I have to go to a school because my parents aren't cool with me just chilling and working on my folio, I either need to be at a Uni for 4 years and build my folio in the meantime or be at a 3d school, make connections and build my folio in 1-2 years.. Obviously I want the 2nd option, but I don't see any schools next to me..
I knew 3D, but I couldn't get a job in it, so I was debating what to do, go to gnomon, or just take basic courses at a community college and do 3D on the side, or go to uni.
I ended up going to community college, taking a bunch of traditional art classes, I really enjoyed it, but I didn't get as much of a chance to work on 3D stuff as I would like.
But even in a city with a tiny 3D industry I managed to get a intern working on a game in unity.
Don't go to Devry.
And the reason there's some people with bad ass stuff and no jobs, and okay stuff and jobs, is, you have to be pro active about jobs and talk to people, you can't just expect to fall into a job after college. The whole industry is very friendly and I'm sure you can email a few studios and be like, "this is my stuff, are you hiring interns? I'm trying to find a place to learn game art" and more than likely some will try to help you out. It never hurts to ask.
I'm sure there's lots of options and opportunities in LA.
Listen to these guys talk about the industry, how to break in, etc etc
http://gim.acanaday.com/
If you're any good you will get noticed, make friends on 3d-forums as connections will surely help when you're applying for a job somewhere. I'd say spending 2-5 years on an education is pretty much a waste of time. If you set up your own deadlines and really focus on learning you learn what a 3d-art school teaches yourself in 6 months to a year. It's all about discipline.
Join a modding team as well, if you're looking to learn choose one where several people have actual experience etc.
Still haven't made a decision, it's down to Devry (really really close to my house, but I'm pretty sure it doesn't have exactly what I want.. But its a uni and my mom likes it more simply for that fact) and Gnomon. I really wanna go to Gnomon but my parents don't get it, they don't know if the instructors there are just guys that worked on games or are they actual good teachers. They don't know if it's generally just a good place to be at with nice people and so on. Also I like the 2 yr course but I don't know, it says I need a folio, do u think my work so far is good enough to get accepted? I asked these questions in an email like almost a week ago but they aren't responding.. Maybe you guys can help!
Email gnomon if you are interested, its their job to make try to make it as easiest as possible to go there, they will be more than happy to say why they are better than devry. If you are the type of student they are looking for they'll try to convince your parents its worth it, and help you in anyway they can.
Also, regarding why some people with small portfolios are working at large studios, is most likely because they had previous experience. And they get hired not just because of their art, but because they've proven they are team players and just great people to work with. When you end up getting an interview, they're gonna look both at your art and how well you would fit into the studio as a person.
Definitely keep this attitude in check. You don't get to choose the game you're going to work on. And if you end up fussing about it during your entire time on your project, people will pick up on it and most likely will be hard for you to find another job. Studios want to hire people that will do the job, but more importantly be good to work with. Don't forget that while working in a studio, you're gonna gain an immense amount of technical skills, insight into the industry, actual work experience, hopefully a shipped title and make connections that will help you get more jobs in the future. Maybe even into your dream studio and working on your dream game.
It is a time consuming process, so don't expect to be able to rush it in 6 months if you are starting out.
Just to speak on that whole "working on bad games" thought, honestly it only really comes into play if you are telling people what you worked on. Otherwise, all that matters is that as an artist you are producing good art, and that is something that is on you, whether or not the game sells or is fun to play has nothing to do with that. It is a nice bonus sure, but as an artist you learn to get satisfaction on making kickass art and not worrying about other factors out of your control.
Where that does come into play more is that if you are working on a ds game instead of a console for example, because the art is different, but is that is something you'll need to work out on your own. Many artists work on personal projects and mods to work on that kickass sci fi stuff that they might not get to work on at their jobs.
Oh yeah and for the love of god do not go to Devry.