I was truely suprised that Stannis wife started screaming and wanted to save her daughter... she's been so mean to her all the time... I thought she wouldn't care much but that Stannis would regret it once she started screaming... I was false.
Stannis is Not the Mannis and dies at the Battle of Winterfell proving he is not the Azhor Ahai.
Ramsay takes advantage of this and sends Jon the Pink Letter
Jon falls for it hook line and sinker and is stabbed by his Brothers (I'm thinking Olly is gonna be in on this)
Show ends with Jon's stabbing
Next Season Melisandre finds out the truth about Jon and seeks him out as Azhor Ahai only to find him on his death bed or even dead. Uses kings blood magic to bring him back.
R + L = J might be revealed on the show before GRRM does it in the books (assuming the theory is true)
Phatty, spoilers man. I know its a prediction but you're also referencing something that happens directly in the book.
And I don't think Mel is going to be bringing Jon back, seeing as shes at Stanis's camp. More likely that after Jon gets stabbed we see him Warg off with the white eyes, either into Ghost or another animal/human. I also dont think Stanis will die.
Phatty, spoilers man. I know its a prediction but you're also referencing something that happens directly in the book.
And I don't think Mel is going to be bringing Jon back, seeing as shes at Stanis's camp. More likely that after Jon gets stabbed we see him Warg off with the white eyes, either into Ghost or another animal/human. I also dont think Stanis will die.
Dude my bad swore I through spoiler tags on there. I've edited it! :poly122:
Good point on the warging. I forgot that as a warg dies they can place their mind in another animal.
Phatty, spoilers man. I know its a prediction but you're also referencing something that happens directly in the book.
And I don't think Mel is going to be bringing Jon back, seeing as shes at Stanis's camp. More likely that after Jon gets stabbed we see him Warg off with the white eyes, either into Ghost or another animal/human. I also dont think Stanis will die.
I really hope thats not he case, things would be so complicated, and I dont see how we can keep the character that way. from a strory perspective I think he either dosnt warg into anything, or he gets lord of lighted
(I hope that was vague enough, didnt wanna bother with spoiler tags xD)
the way I see it, there were three possibilities at the end of ADWD. 1- Jon dies , that's the end of Jon. I don't see this being the case even with GRRM, but I admit it could happen. 2- Jon gets "lord of lighted", as you put it. This seems much more plausible in the book because mellisandre is still at the wall when Jon is stabbed and can do the resurrecting pretty quickly. But in the show, Mel is with stanis, well far away from Jon, so I think in the new context of the shows character movement and machinations, this just isn't going to happen. And 3- Jon warrgs. This makes much more sense in the show given how they've shown bran warging into hodor (I wouldn't be surprised to see bran doing this is the recap just to remind the audience), and his wolf. Also, the added book context that GRRM used the intro chapter for ADWD to show how a dying warg could continue living by warging into humans and animals both. So yeah, I'm pretty much all in with warging. I wouldn't be surprised if the last shot of the season is Jon on his back, then open eyes, totally white.
the way I see it, there were three possibilities at the end of ADWD. 1- Jon dies , that's the end of Jon. I don't see this being the case even with GRRM, but I admit it could happen. 2- Jon gets "lord of lighted", as you put it. This seems much more plausible in the book because mellisandre is still at the wall when Jon is stabbed and can do the resurrecting pretty quickly. But in the show, Mel is with stanis, well far away from Jon, so I think in the new context of the shows character movement and machinations, this just isn't going to happen. And 3- Jon warrgs. This makes much more sense in the show given how they've shown bran warging into hodor (I wouldn't be surprised to see bran doing this is the recap just to remind the audience), and his wolf. Also, the added book context that GRRM used the intro chapter for ADWD to show how a dying warg could continue living by warging into humans and animals both. So yeah, I'm pretty much all in with warging. I wouldn't be surprised if the last shot of the season is Jon on his back, then open eyes, totally white.
In the books they explain a warg can live on for a while but slowly the thing he's warged into will take back control and the personality of the warg will fade, seems like a boring death unbefitting to the show. Also in the show he's never warged if I remember correctly. It would seem a bit of a stretch to explain all of this to the showviewers. My vote is for your number 2, the story cant really miss anymore 'good guys' for people to vouch for should he die.
When will the whitewalkers finally DO SOMETHING!?!? They were going towards the wall since the second season and now they show up somewhere else. For some reason I think Stannis is bound to the wall and the battle against the white walkers. I mean, what interesting things could happen after he captures Winterfell? MAJOR SPOILERS:
Maybe Davos was sent back to castle black so he can bring back word of Jons death, while Theon escapes to Stannis' camp with Sansa, this would seem like a 'reward' for burning his daughter. Two new hostages with kingsblood and the wall in chaos might be a reason for Stannis to retreet to the wall and make it his own.
With all these bigger things happening I as a viewer/reader no longer care for who ends up on the iron throne really.
In the books they explain a warg can live on for a while but slowly the thing he's warged into will take back control and the personality of the warg will fade, seems like a boring death unbefitting to the show. Also in the show he's never warged if I remember correctly. It would seem a bit of a stretch to explain all of this to the showviewers. My vote is for your number 2, the story cant really miss anymore 'good guys' for people to vouch for should he die.
When will the whitewalkers finally DO SOMETHING!?!? They were going towards the wall since the second season and now they show up somewhere else. For some reason I think Stannis is bound to the wall and the battle against the white walkers. I mean, what interesting things could happen after he captures Winterfell? MAJOR SPOILERS:
Maybe Davos was sent back to castle black so he can bring back word of Jons death, while Theon escapes to Stannis' camp with Sansa, this would seem like a 'reward' for burning his daughter. Two new hostages with kingsblood and the wall in chaos might be a reason for Stannis to retreet to the wall and make it his own.
With all these bigger things happening I as a viewer/reader no longer care for who ends up on the iron throne really.
I believe the Others haven't really attacked the wall yet because they haven't amassed an army until recently. Hardhome really solidified their ranks giving the the fuel they need to invade.
From a practical viewpoint though the writers are probably holding off until the 7th season to show that conflict considering they have run out of source material. Then again D&D supposedly know how the books end anyways.
so eh why not keep him standing at the wall to get devoured by the wildlings since they would have seen it as betrayal if they didnt let them in?
if they hated the wildlings that much they wouldnt have let them in.
I think the time they made the decision to stab Jon was after he let the wildings in. Like when they see the wildings march in that was the final straw
Apparently kit harrington wont be in season 6 :poly122: hoopefully he will come back in season 7
the best thing coming out of this is that GRRM doesn't have any excuses left not to continue writing the story ... unless they turn some other of his books into a TV show
the best thing coming out of this is that GRRM doesn't have any excuses left not to continue writing the story ... unless they turn some other of his books into a TV show
Except now that the show is going to overtake the books he can basically just go "meh, whatever" and not finish them.
I mean, he *might* get Winds of Winter out before season 7. But there's no way he'll get A Dream of Spring out before season 8.
So the show will definitely finish before the books? I heard that the show deviates from them anyway, so at this point they could go in two different directions?
here's the thing though:
it's a widely known fact that GRRM explained the overall story, and ending to the shows directors, just in case he died before he finished the books.
it's also a widely known fact that GRRM likes to change his mind about things. So i can see him changing the ending in some way after he's seen it in the show and going "hmm i don't like that actually". which will be kinda interesting heh.
here's the thing though:
it's a widely known fact that GRRM explained the overall story, and ending to the shows directors, just in case he died before he finished the books.
it's also a widely known fact that GRRM likes to change his mind about things. So i can see him changing the ending in some way after he's seen it in the show and going "hmm i don't like that actually". which will be kinda interesting heh.
WHICH ONE IS THE REAL ENDING OMG?!
hehe, never though of it that way, I actually really hope he changes the ending in the books so they have different endings, it would actually kind of makes sense if you look at how GOT prophesies work. that way the show and the books would be two parallel universes with two both equally true and likely endings/outcomes.
Except now that the show is going to overtake the books he can basically just go "meh, whatever" and not finish them.
Given the last book I'd be okay with that. Although I wish he'd go back writing the way the first 3 books were written. Got a bit downhill from there... actually season 5 is better than the last book. I'm happy they left out some of the more boring parts.
Et tu, Olly? (seriously this scene was exactly the same as Caesar's assassination)
Oh and yeah, i really hope these so called brothers in the wall get killed by the white walkers, rise again and then get killed again....
And where the f* was the Eddison Tollett guy, wasn't he supposed to be friends with Jon?
I am quite disappointed with the writing at the moment, seems very lacking of late. ~edit major spoilers incoming sorry~
The Assassination attempt on Dany, cringing watching it the whole time, a convergence of plot armour with her and Tyrion there seemingly, they all should have been dead about 20 times. Look as the 4 of them waltz through the middle of the arena, surrounded by spear throwing enemies who just ignore them for the most part.
The scene with Arya, a skilled warrior just panics with one eye taken out, maybe understandable, then waits for the other without throwing a little girl off him. Still, maybe shock. Then he just sits there while she chats in his ear. If any of you have watched a fantastic show called "Utopia" there is a scene in that with a blinded person fighting for his life, certainly much more realistically done.
The scene with Brienne, she just sort of rocks up in the middle of what was a battle, Stannis somehow ended up there after being surrounded. Bolton just let Stannis walk off? While it's not impossible for the situation to have arisen, it's unlikely and probably needed a little explanation.
Jon snow, possibly the one of the better fighters, who's not fussed about raising his blade to a white walker. He walks up to a sign saying traitor, surrounded by scummy knights watch criminals, turns around, and then just stands there gormlessly as Thorne wanders slowly up to him and stabs him. He doesn't try to take the blade, doesn't do anything.
The Cercei scene, surrounded by a wild crowd she had what appeared to be only 4 or 6 guards with battons keeping the crowd away? Again, the way the scene was shown it just looked... unlikely.
My friends and I had mostly the same thoughts on this, I wonder if those scenes are the same in the books?
There's an attempt on Dany's life, however with poisoned snacks. Strong Belwas, a character not in the series, eats it instead, and he's probably going to survive. Then Drogon enters the scene but there are no Harpies. Tyrion is just there to entertain the crowd, as a slave dwarf with riding a pig pretending to be a knight. The two don't meet.
Jon is attacked but the situation is different, some knights attack the giant and hell breaks lose. The brothers attack him in the confusion.
Cersei's scene is very similar, although I don't recall the number of the guards. However, fear of the Faith militia should keep most of the crowd at bay.
Brienne and Arya's scenes, or the battle with Stannis, have not taken place in the books - yet. Brienne is also at a different corner of Westeros, far from the North.
I am quite disappointed with the writing at the moment, seems very lacking of late.
I agree with all that you said, but there's one more point.
"Reek" suddenly turning good and pushing that girl off the walkway and escaping with Sansa. That felt like such a cheap change, "okay, now he's good" -- even though he showed no change in previous episodes.
I agree with all that you said, but there's one more point.
"Reek" suddenly turning good and pushing that girl off the walkway and escaping with Sansa. That felt like such a cheap change, "okay, now he's good" -- even though he showed no change in previous episodes.
I disagree.. he's been showing signs of remorse quite a bit the past few episodes, as well as signs that he isn't totally broken by Ramsay. I thought that move was pretty heavily telegraphed. I also don't think he "turned good" suddenly, he just lashed out and did something emotional and impulsive after being pushed around for a long time.
I disagree.. he's been showing signs of remorse quite a bit the past few episodes, as well as signs that he isn't totally broken by Ramsay. I thought that move was pretty heavily telegraphed. I also don't think he "turned good" suddenly, he just lashed out and did something emotional and impulsive after being pushed around for a long time.
I see it as he's still afraid of Ramsay, but he wasn't afraid of that chick. So, while he was feeling guilt, during previous events, he was afraid to help Sansa, because of his fear of Ramsay. He knew that chick was going to fire that arrow, and wasn't afraid to take action with her.
Side note for others, can we stop with the spoiler tags for aired episodes? I thought it was already discussed, to only use them if they were book spoilers. I'm worried about revealing spoilers, because I don't know if it's for the show, or the books.
Side note for others, can we stop with the spoiler tags for aired episodes? I thought it was already discussed, to only use them if they were book spoilers. I'm worried about revealing spoilers, because I don't know if it's for the show, or the books.
I very much doubt Jon is gone. Dead, sure, and i doubt we'll be seeing Kit Harrington again, but Jon can't be definitively gone unless everything around him was a red herring, and that would be odd for a writer like GRR to do.
yeah, as much as GRRM doesn't mind killing people off, when they're dead we KNOW they're dead, it gets second hand confirmation almost immediately afterward.
Seems like this thread did not get touched this whole season. A lot happened this season, but I feel like the episodes don't have the same 'discussions' opportunities that they once had. My coworkers no longer discuss it, though I know they are all still watching it.
Anyway, obviously we all now know that Jon came back. And we now who his parents are now (at least his mother). Cersei blew the hell out of everyone at the citadel, and is now on the thrown (after the King took his leap). Sadly no more Margaery And Dany is on her way
yep, shit really hit the fan. I must say overall this was a very positive season. both Jon, Sansa, Arya and Daenerys had a lot of good things going for them.
I also like how much humor they introduced this season. and when I say humor I mean dark humor, for example Tommen's jump was shot in a very humorous way. The Hound arguing with the brotherhood about the hangings, and pretty much all of of Sam's scenes; always awkward and funny.
loved the Kid King's death, short and sweet like his involvement on screen, also glad they blew up that building the praying to the 7's was getting old shame they didn't have a battle for her trial but I guess that's already been done
solid season, looking forward to the next! (...is the show caught up with the books now or do they still have one more season before they have to do their own thing more or less)
Yeah, one of the reasons I love Tyrian, was from his humor in the first couple seasons. There hasn't been as much humor, until this season. I love the humor of the Brienne, with Tormund's crush
Yeah, one of the reasons I love Tyrian, was from his humor in the first couple seasons. There hasn't been as much humor, until this season. I love the humor of the Brienne, with Tormund's crush
Oh yeah, totally forgot about Briane and Tormund, they only had 2 scenes together I think, but they where hilarious. and then also we have Lyanna who was both funny and awesome at the same time.
Oh hell yeah, how could I forget how awesome Lyanna is. The actress playing her is pretty awesome too. She nails the role, and doesn't feel like a child delivering lines. The character will make a formidable adult, when she comes of age. The Starks should be glad she's on their side
Lyanna is now one of my favorite characters, by far. Such a powerful ruler, and shes only still super young. I can only imagine the badassery that will ensue when she gets older, gives Arya a run for her money. Pretty excited Arya has started to make her mark throughout Westeros, and glad she is using the God of Many Faces knowledge she has, was afraid at the end there that she would be against using that to her advantage simply because of that falling out. I think an interesting dynamic is going to be her and Jon meeting up at some point, curious if she is too lone wolf now to really connect and be apart of the family yet (or ever).
"Battle of the Bastards" and the finale were some of my favorite episodes of TV, ever, easily. So much story telling with every little element. I LOVE the director's and development teams' attention to detail, every shot can be picked apart and come away with some meaning or another. I think back to lines from the Battle of the Bastards episodes, and they talk about the cache of explosives under the city, and I knew they are going to use that at some point. Hats off to the team, tying so many things together in such a fantastic way.
Re: Lyanna Mormont. It's great, as this is her first acting role.
Great season, loved how the HS drove some people to root for Lannisters, Cersei most of all. Sansa coming into her own, Dany finally making moves towards Westeros. Will certainly miss the Tyrells, well Margery at least, interested to see the Southern Houses aligned behind Dany just for vengeance (the Tyrells and Martells hate each other).
Also, that musical score at the beginning and the end are just great.
Replies
And it was great to see The Bravosi sword dance...though brief.
Ramsay takes advantage of this and sends Jon the Pink Letter
Jon falls for it hook line and sinker and is stabbed by his Brothers (I'm thinking Olly is gonna be in on this)
Show ends with Jon's stabbing
Next Season Melisandre finds out the truth about Jon and seeks him out as Azhor Ahai only to find him on his death bed or even dead. Uses kings blood magic to bring him back.
R + L = J might be revealed on the show before GRRM does it in the books (assuming the theory is true)
Gah can sunday get here already!:poly127:
.... WTH man !?
Dude my bad swore I through spoiler tags on there. I've edited it! :poly122:
I really hope thats not he case, things would be so complicated, and I dont see how we can keep the character that way. from a strory perspective I think he either dosnt warg into anything, or he gets lord of lighted
(I hope that was vague enough, didnt wanna bother with spoiler tags xD)
When will the whitewalkers finally DO SOMETHING!?!? They were going towards the wall since the second season and now they show up somewhere else. For some reason I think Stannis is bound to the wall and the battle against the white walkers. I mean, what interesting things could happen after he captures Winterfell? MAJOR SPOILERS:
I believe the Others haven't really attacked the wall yet because they haven't amassed an army until recently. Hardhome really solidified their ranks giving the the fuel they need to invade.
From a practical viewpoint though the writers are probably holding off until the 7th season to show that conflict considering they have run out of source material. Then again D&D supposedly know how the books end anyways.
Also way to go D&D on the fade to black killing of Stannis. Who knows if he's even alive/dead Why they gotta do this to us
Shinigami: Yup they're all caught up in the timeline save a few events that were either cut out or are literally just an episode away.
if they hated the wildlings that much they wouldnt have let them in.
"Help , we're running out of cast."
Except now that the show is going to overtake the books he can basically just go "meh, whatever" and not finish them.
I mean, he *might* get Winds of Winter out before season 7. But there's no way he'll get A Dream of Spring out before season 8.
here's the thing though:
it's a widely known fact that GRRM explained the overall story, and ending to the shows directors, just in case he died before he finished the books.
it's also a widely known fact that GRRM likes to change his mind about things. So i can see him changing the ending in some way after he's seen it in the show and going "hmm i don't like that actually". which will be kinda interesting heh.
WHICH ONE IS THE REAL ENDING OMG?!
hehe, never though of it that way, I actually really hope he changes the ending in the books so they have different endings, it would actually kind of makes sense if you look at how GOT prophesies work. that way the show and the books would be two parallel universes with two both equally true and likely endings/outcomes.
Given the last book I'd be okay with that. Although I wish he'd go back writing the way the first 3 books were written. Got a bit downhill from there... actually season 5 is better than the last book. I'm happy they left out some of the more boring parts.
Oh and yeah, i really hope these so called brothers in the wall get killed by the white walkers, rise again and then get killed again....
And where the f* was the Eddison Tollett guy, wasn't he supposed to be friends with Jon?
If I had a daughter, I would want her to be just like you....yes, I realize you are one part homicidal maniac, but in a good way...
..Your loving never-to-be-a-father...
[ame]
The scene with Arya, a skilled warrior just panics with one eye taken out, maybe understandable, then waits for the other without throwing a little girl off him. Still, maybe shock. Then he just sits there while she chats in his ear. If any of you have watched a fantastic show called "Utopia" there is a scene in that with a blinded person fighting for his life, certainly much more realistically done.
The scene with Brienne, she just sort of rocks up in the middle of what was a battle, Stannis somehow ended up there after being surrounded. Bolton just let Stannis walk off? While it's not impossible for the situation to have arisen, it's unlikely and probably needed a little explanation.
Jon snow, possibly the one of the better fighters, who's not fussed about raising his blade to a white walker. He walks up to a sign saying traitor, surrounded by scummy knights watch criminals, turns around, and then just stands there gormlessly as Thorne wanders slowly up to him and stabs him. He doesn't try to take the blade, doesn't do anything.
The Cercei scene, surrounded by a wild crowd she had what appeared to be only 4 or 6 guards with battons keeping the crowd away? Again, the way the scene was shown it just looked... unlikely.
My friends and I had mostly the same thoughts on this, I wonder if those scenes are the same in the books?
There's an attempt on Dany's life, however with poisoned snacks. Strong Belwas, a character not in the series, eats it instead, and he's probably going to survive. Then Drogon enters the scene but there are no Harpies. Tyrion is just there to entertain the crowd, as a slave dwarf with riding a pig pretending to be a knight. The two don't meet.
Jon is attacked but the situation is different, some knights attack the giant and hell breaks lose. The brothers attack him in the confusion.
Cersei's scene is very similar, although I don't recall the number of the guards. However, fear of the Faith militia should keep most of the crowd at bay.
Brienne and Arya's scenes, or the battle with Stannis, have not taken place in the books - yet. Brienne is also at a different corner of Westeros, far from the North.
I agree with all that you said, but there's one more point.
I see it as he's still afraid of Ramsay, but he wasn't afraid of that chick. So, while he was feeling guilt, during previous events, he was afraid to help Sansa, because of his fear of Ramsay. He knew that chick was going to fire that arrow, and wasn't afraid to take action with her.
Side note for others, can we stop with the spoiler tags for aired episodes? I thought it was already discussed, to only use them if they were book spoilers. I'm worried about revealing spoilers, because I don't know if it's for the show, or the books.
preach!
Anyway, obviously we all now know that Jon came back. And we now who his parents are now (at least his mother). Cersei blew the hell out of everyone at the citadel, and is now on the thrown (after the King took his leap). Sadly no more Margaery
I also like how much humor they introduced this season. and when I say humor I mean dark humor, for example Tommen's jump was shot in a very humorous way. The Hound arguing with the brotherhood about the hangings, and pretty much all of of Sam's scenes; always awkward and funny.
solid season, looking forward to the next! (...is the show caught up with the books now or do they still have one more season before they have to do their own thing more or less)
The character will make a formidable adult, when she comes of age. The Starks should be glad she's on their side
"Battle of the Bastards" and the finale were some of my favorite episodes of TV, ever, easily. So much story telling with every little element. I LOVE the director's and development teams' attention to detail, every shot can be picked apart and come away with some meaning or another. I think back to lines from the Battle of the Bastards episodes, and they talk about the cache of explosives under the city, and I knew they are going to use that at some point. Hats off to the team, tying so many things together in such a fantastic way.
Great season, loved how the HS drove some people to root for Lannisters, Cersei most of all. Sansa coming into her own, Dany finally making moves towards Westeros. Will certainly miss the Tyrells, well Margery at least, interested to see the Southern Houses aligned behind Dany just for vengeance (the Tyrells and Martells hate each other).
Also, that musical score at the beginning and the end are just great.