New environment: Shinto Shrine

Will Faucher

Hey, so I am planning/working on an environment for my school demoreel and I'm having a little bit of trouble for my camera angles. Below is the layout of my scene. Not big, not too small either.
Like I said, Camera angles are an issue right now. I have no idea how to film it properly and professionally. I want to make the viewer feel as if he/she is there in the scene.

Here is the summary: (Summary Layout Blatantly stolen from Adam, very well made, it should be an industry standard imo, thank you! It has helped alot!)

Summary

A lost, forgotten shintoist shrine in Japan, located on the base of Mt. Fuji
Inspiration, purpose

• Interest in learning advanced blending methods
• Create environment as a whole, final result shown in a video.
  • Forced to think of the environment as a whole, rather than a couple choice framed shots
• 3ds Max
• Show how a strong atmosphere ties an environment together
• Breaking down the planning of the scene.
• The Last Samurai
• Japan

Techniques, Plans, Goals

• Advanced texture blending techniques
• Using 3ds Max
• Global Illumination
• Final Gather
• Mental Ray
• Create a near photorealistic environment
• Give the viewer the impression of being there
• Add realistic sounds

2D
Vegetation

• Ground textures, horizontal
  • grass
  • rock face
  • dirt
  • Overgrowth
• Ground textures, vertical
  • grass
  • rock face
  • dirt
  • Overgrowth
  • Vines

• moved terrain/dirt

3D

Landscape

• rocks
• tree
• fallen tree(s)
• bush
• grass
• weeds
• leaves
• flowers
• Overgrowth (vines, trees, etc)

Buildings
·Honden/Haiden
·Cloisters

Critters

• Birds
• Insects
• squirrels (if I have time)

Background elements

• Mt.Fuji
• Thick forest line

Important Scenes/Visuals

• Landscape shots
  • • Leaves blowing/swaying
    • Birds flying
• Dense tree line, cliff side

Thanks in advance!

Zipfinator

This is a good idea, but you didn't have to copy Adam's text layout exactly... The landscape and critters sections are nearly exactly the same as Adam's. You even left the "?" in "squirrels?"

Will Faucher

Crap I forgot to put in the credits to him for that. I found it a very, very good layout, which is why I used it. Thanks for pointing that out. However, his environment is somewhat similar in the sense that it is a forest, like mine. Which is why the sections are very much alike. *Edit* Credits put it

adam

Ha, neat!

Why are you rendering this in a 3D application and not inside of a game engine?

If this is for a video your overview/concept doesn't seem nearly expansive enough. Try sketching out certain areas of this environment so you can remove some of the guess work when you're actually in the thick of things and modelling/texturing.

Zipfinator

Prophecies wrote: »

Crap I forgot to put in the credits to him for that. I found it a very, very good layout, which is why I used it. Thanks for pointing that out. However, his environment is somewhat similar in the sense that it is a forest, like mine. Which is why the sections are very much alike. *Edit* Credits put it

Ha that's fine. It is a great layout. In fact I'd probably use it if I was doing something like this. Just thought I'd point out that parts were obviously copied from Adam's version.

Looking forward to seeing progress on this along with Adam's environment.

Will Faucher

adam wrote: »

Ha, neat!

Why are you rendering this in a 3D application and not inside of a game engine?

If this is for a video your overview/concept doesn't seem nearly expansive enough. Try sketching out certain areas of this environment so you can remove some of the guess work when you're actually in the thick of things and modelling/texturing.

The reason I am rendering in max is simple enough. There will be a portion
of my reel that will contain pieces rendered realtime in unreal,
showing that I know how to use Unreal.

The scene that will contain the
fly-through of my main environment (shinto shrine) would be done in max to show that I know how to use Max's rendering tools/Mental ray/Vray. The reason? I'm not limiting myself strictly to the game industry. I am opening myself to the 3D industry as a whole. Giving me more chances at landing a job if, say, a company that makes game cinematics wants to hire me because of my exceptional use of mental ray and Max Particle effects (this is just an example).

Also, once I graduate, I will make another
reel with the same scene (shinto shrine) but done entirely in unreal. Therefore, I will have a reel that is game-oriented and another that is
film-oriented. In my online portfolio, when I take screenshots of
environment stills, I will ensure that those stills are rendered
realtime.


Also, the whole reason I am making a demoreel is because of the school I am attending. It is part of the final project. My school has a partnership with many game and cinematics/film companies in the country, and sends off their best demoreels directly to the company dev, with backup ensuring that the school knows that the demoreels they send are top knotch.
---
Ok now that that's out of the way...

What do you mean by it is not expansive enough? I'm not aiming for something too big here. I'm going for quality over quantity. I only have until september, so I need to keep things smaller, and focus on the quality of it all.
I am already in the process of sketching areas of it, but it's like I said in my first post, I'm having a hard time with camera angles.

ikken

Sounds nice (because I'm such a japanfag hahaha)

Subscribing.

adam

Personally, I think you're wasting your time by splitting your "reel" between games and cinematics. I think your end results would be leaps & bounds stronger if you specialized in one or the other, and built the reel entirely around that. This whole, 'show them I know the renderer in Max' just sounds weird. You have a better chance of being a phenomenal game artist than a decent game artist and a decent... cinematic artist? (Or, alternatively, a phenomenal cinematics artist...).

And (at the risk of sounding rude by I promise you I don't mean for it to come off this way) if you truly are focusing this on cinematic quality - which is much higher than videogames - why are you posting this on a videogame art forum? I assume your specs will be much greater than what we'd typically use.

So, to reiterate this point, I think you should focus on one or the other (personally, game art) and not split it up and sell yourself short. The point about the school connections to this or that company are irrelevant. Don't rely on that to get yourself a gig. Just make the best reel you can, that has a clear focus and direction, and you'll do just fine.

As for expansive... it just seems very tight for a forest environment.

Will Faucher

Thank you for your opinion. It has definitely given me much to think about. Here's the thing, at school, there will be a rather big team project that we will be working on shortly before the end of the school year. I will be the environment artist for the team project. Therefore, the props I will be making in unreal for the team project, I'll pop those in my reel. At least, that was the plan. I'm still in the preparatory stages of my demoreel. What I mean is I'm still planning everything out, making concepts, planning my camera angles, etc. So I still have time to decide to pop this all in unreal at the last minute.

Back on topic, I haven't posted any concepts yet, so it's normal you don't quite know what I plan on doing. My scene isn't *quite* in a forest. It is right in the middle of one, but you'll see. The whole scene is not shrouded in dense forest. Wait till I get my first concept up, should be soon.

Cyrael

this actually brings up an interesting question that I've thought about before... Are there any relevant cinematic forums? I'm personally an animator but I love coming here for the community and modeling is a huge hobby of mine. I've never stumbled across any game cinematic forums in my forays across the intertubes, and would love to know if any exist...

Will Faucher

Just finished the first concept. I have a hard time to draw in photoshop. I draw well on paper, but I don't have a scanner, so I decided to model my concept with very simple stuff. Much quicker and allows to me to plan my stuff better than a simple 2D concept. I have yet to put in some color, but I just want to get an idea of the scene first.

jmiles

not bad so far.. keep it comin

Will Faucher

*deleted*

Will Faucher

Here is some more work that I just finished. The very first prop.
Let me know what you guys think!

Will Faucher

Update! Ok I know I haven't updated in a while, but I've been busy, and I finally got around to boxing out the scene a little. The layout is in brainstorming process, so if you have suggestions, please let me know!
Note that this is 100% boxing out/ brainstorming results, so nothing here is a finalized piece except the torii gate. Rocks, temples, buildings, everything will be redone.

Also, there will be a TON of vegetation. I won't have the scene empty like it is here. It will be full of lush vegetation surrounding the pond, lilypads, Koi, trees, etc.

Joshflighter

Wow.. I'm on my mobile so pics are kinda small.. But I'm in love with this wip. very nice!

Will Faucher

Thanks! Here is another small update. Made a few layout changes to make it similar to this:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2604/3986446793_c8afa3e764_o.jpg

Once there is vegetation, it should bring the beauty out!

Apophis3d

Looking good so far, like the layout with the ponds. One area that I think could use some work is the large rocks, obviously you're getting to that point but yeah. Any plans for some zen gardens in this by any chance?

Will Faucher

Haha, yeah the rocks are just some old failed rock tests I had stored somewhere so I popped them in there. They *will* be redone. As for the zen garden, this is going to be an abandoned shrine. A Zen Garden needs to be constantly taken care of. Factors like wind, rain, storms would blow away the patterns. But it's a good idea nonetheless, I'll keep it in mind.

yiannisk

looks good so far, one remark, the moss on your gateway is too green at certain points and it pops a lot compared to the rest.

Maybe you should consider desaturating it a bit?

(repeat rocks comment)

regarding the zen garden in an abandoned derelict shrine i guess something like signs of the existence of a zen garden could be a dead tree and\or big rocks some of them broken etc. that can't be swept by the wind would give a nice abandoned feel.

also for an abandoned (ancient?) shrine perhaps you would need to create more obvious "destruction" such as some tiles missing or misaligned.. or even broken down sections depending on how old you think of this to be. create a litle bit of history drive the viewer's imagination a bit. how\why did it happen and such temple got abandoned.

was it a natural destruction? was it war?

Will Faucher

Thanks for your crit regarding the Torii Gate, I'll check up on that when I get back to working on my props. As for the the abandonment feeling, I'm going to have to do some research, since japanese architecture is very, very well build. Buildings were constructed in a manner that would resist earthquakes, since Japan lies along a fault line. I'll have to look into whether I want this to be a natural disaster, or a war-torn scene. I was leaning towards a forgotten shrine, forgotten because a war ravaged the nearby town.

Will Faucher

Update! Worked on my rocks and rock layout. Definitely looks better. I have also decided that the shrine is simply abandoned (perhaps the nearby town was ravaged during a war and people forgot about this place). So the buildings will be worn from weather and the elements. Lots of overgrowth.

Also, the large rock on the right hand side is not correct. I am aware. The way I made it makes it look like it is an enlarged small stone. I'll need to change the large and medium detailing to make it seem like a larger rock. But you get the idea!

Let me know what you think!

P442

i think you could add interest here by stretching your terrain and angling those bridges, so they're not inline with each other. The bridges also need to be more interesting. I also think the boulders by the steps of the temple are a bit large.

Will Faucher

Hmm I give your idea regarding the angling of the bridges and it does indeed look much better. I didn't stretch my terrain though, a simple relocation of the central rock made the angling possible. As for the bridges, they are in blockout phase, I haven't touched those yet. They will be made similar to the bridge here:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2604/3986446793_c8afa3e764_o.jpg

I agree with the large boulders by the steps, I'll tone those down.

Thank you very much!

Divine Rage

Dragons are always a nice touch. I would suggest you try placing it on that small island. Make it a more prominent decoration.

Will Faucher

I'll give it a try, since I moved the bridges to give them an angle, there is less space on the little island, but it's worth a shot!

Mistry10

cool stuff man,
where did you get that samurai character from ?

MegaMoogle

I really like the design and layout of this environment. It definitely needs some trees though, with those shinto prayers hanging on them. I think that would help make the negative space more interesting. Can't wait to see more!

Will Faucher

Mistry: Thanks! I made the Samurai character a while back. I have a thread somewhere here where I posted him for crits. He's much more detailed now than he was back when I posted him here though. I thought he would fit in rather well, and providing a nice way to make sure my props are scaled properly.

MegaMoogle: I will definitely have trees in there! I just haven't gotten around to making them yet! I want to make this place have lush vegetation and overgrowth. The wild taking over human civilization.

Will Faucher

So I finally finished modeling the maint temple! Replaced the rocks around quite a bit, and added some super pro grass (fear my mad digital painting skills). Trees will be added, my digital painting skills don't allow me to put trees in without hiding absolutely everything with a blob of green. The background will not be rocky like that in the final version. The entire....(canyon?) will be surrounded by a thick tree line, so it won't be as bare nor as rocky as it seems with now.

I added a sunrise mood to the place, I definitely like.

Wiktor

I think this is turning out really great!
What kind of colour scheme are you going for on the buildings?

Oh, and if you are going for a sunrise, you should set the lighting to a more blueish tint.




Sunsets tend to be orange.

Keep up the great work! I'm a huge fan of asian environments, and as I said, this is shaping up nicely!

Will Faucher

Hmm, good call. I did the sky at around 2 in the morning, was pretty tired and wasn't looking at references much. Thanks.

As for the buildings, I'll be going for a more buddhist-style scheme. The buildings will be painted red, for a nice contrast with the greenery.With some nice paint chipping wear like you see on my torii gate on page 1. Something like this:

The rooves with be made from some sort of thatch. Thatch also allows for moss to buildup on it, giving it a rather interesting look. The following buildings are rather new, so not much moss has grown yet, but older thatch rooves have a ton of moss.

Will Faucher

I noticed that when you mentioned it. It's because of the birds eye view (camera angle) and the lack of any form of background. That is what gives it the miniature look. I took a screenshot like that because it showed every building and every area of the environment. Whereas, if I take a close up look, you don't see everything. Result: (Not the best lighting, I know, I just popped in a skylight and that's it.) Oh, and yes, I still need to make my bridges. Haven't gotten around to doing that yet.

yiannisk

Don't just throw some dragon somewhere randomly just because japan has dragons. Dragons are used as guardians study the architecture and tradition a bit more. Japanese used to love symmetry, therefore there is little chance there would be only one guarding it would be a pair.

Watch some Kurosawa movies.. Rashomon perhaps or Dreams.. would be nice or similar era and quality. At worse even crying freeman would be ok..

Will Faucher

Update and change of plans.

So I aimed for something a little too big for my own good. This is my first ever environment I am making, so I decided to scale this thing down a little. My lighting is blasting my normal maps on some of the rocks up front, but you get the idea.


There will be medium to tall grass along where there is green on the ground. I just popped a tiling texture to replace the boring gray for the time being. I need to model the bridge soon, I keep forgetting to and moving on to something else. Note, my lighting was done very quickly, nothing special. I just wanted to know what the shadows would look like with my vegetation added.

Bless me with your crits and suggestions!

Thanks in advance!

MarcusF

Oh wow, looking much better! You put alot of work into this! Love the cattails! Needs more actual aquatic vegetation like lilypads. And there doesn't seem to be enough fern/plants to the right. Seems empty there. It's still at an early stage so that's all I can say for now, but great start!

Mistry10

looks alot better man !

Will Faucher

Thanks guys! I finished modelling the bridge and started working on the stair stringers. Not worthy of an update yet though. Once that's done I should start working on the main temple. Can't wait! My last update was a little dark though, that's fixed. But then again, it's just a basic lighting system I have setup, I'll focus on lighting once everything is done.

MarcusF

Looking forward to seeing it!

Joshflighter

I really like what you did to this. I love how the nature is as visually attractive as your structures. Coming together very nicely!

MattBradley

I like the new direction with this, keep up the good work.

Timothy_graybill

I like the change of plans. better composition. I think its alot more focused which is good because you can really make this think look kick ass!

Will Faucher

Thanks guys! I should have an update sometime soon. I'll try working on the contrast of the colors a little bit, make it a little less dull.

Alberto Rdrgz

like the new temple A whole lot more!

SgtNasty

Hey, great work so far I'm really liking it.

The main thing that bothers me are your line of sight blocking rocks/cliffs. They seem a little bit out of place. In the refernces you posted there were mostly hills covered in vegetation, which gave a nice contrast with the red architecture. Yours makes me feel like I'm looking at level design circa 1999 or whatever, where the designers just duplicated the same rock a bunch to block where the player could go.

I know the background can be a bitch, but if you spend a bit of time on it you can really add to your scene.

Will Faucher

Oh I agree entirely! I just haven't worked on the background at all yet. That rock cliff is actually a failed rock test that I just left there because I liked how it hid the horizon line. However, in the end, it will be done better than this!

Will Faucher

Mini-update! I got a few things retouched and put in, including grass, placed the cattails in a more realistic fashion, changed the trees, and put in a quick background. I also changed the temple a little bit as well. There is now a bridge to replace that boring plane.
Right now, I'm sort of stumped as to what I should do next. I just have so much to do that I don't know where to start off! I have a bunch of tweaking to do as well, including the grass, since it's just randomly scattered accross the hill.

Anyways, crit my pants off!

MarcusF

Ohh looking great! I love the background! The whole thing is turning out pretty awesome!
About being stumped, I know what you mean. I've been there before. It happens alot when taking on a daunting challenge. The one thing that helped me alot was this; Get your concepts done, get your camera angles done. Once that is completed, you'll know exactly the look you are going for. Then, it's only a matter of getting things done one by one. Get a tree done and over with, get those rocks done 100%. Go at it an inch at a time, and eventually you'll go for miles. Those tiny inches add up.

Hope this helped!

Jojones

I love the trees you have by the temple...do you mind posting just a screen shot of them alone or a close-up of them?
looking great! keep it up.

Will Faucher

Sure thing! I am currently in the process of sculpting the normal map for my trees. So I'll post it up once the sculpt is done!

KateC

Oh man! This is beautiful! Love the rocks and... pretty much everything so far. The only thing that stands out a bit is the roughed in mountain, and how similar in shape and size it is the to the shrine. I really like the openness and negative space of the previous version with the sky, so knocking back the mountain's contrast and all that might help the composition a little bit if you're sticking to that camera angle. But seriously, really nice. That's just a tiny nitpick.