ironicly enough, same sex marriage is not allowed in the UK either
True, but what they do have is much closer to anything in the US.
Germany and Iceland don't have same sex marriage either, but in Iceland it's identical to marriage, and in Germany it's quite close and is currently being challenged in the supreme court equivalent.
Whatever. I mumbled my way through/said nothing during the Pledge of Allegiance from Kindergarten through 8th grade (no Pledge in high school). Maybe if I had told the teachers to jump off a bridge I could be an anti-authoritarian hero too!
I think a lot of adults forget how smart kids are, in fact I think kids are a lot smarter before they get to highschool and figure out acting stupid makes them cool.
Here's something to top that off. I think it should be a granted speech sent for every teacher, student in America, and (maybe) the world to watch at their schools.
-
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iG9CE55wbtY[/ame]
No joint taxes.
You must pay taxes on healthcare coverage for your partner, whereas straight couples do not.
no hospital visitation rights or ability to make end of life decisions (so often times their estranged parents get to decide, and not their spouse of sometimes 20+ years)
No dual adoption (so if the single parent who did do the legal adoption dies, the child reverts to the state instead of the other parent that helped raise them)
No tax free inheritence of the other's posessions upon death. (if they leave you their house, bam, you owe all the taxes on it as if they gifted it to a stranger. Married couples pay nothing)
No visa/citizenship path for foreign spouses.
There are a lot more, but these are the biggies off the top of my head.
what are the main differences between civil unions and marriage?
The difference between a religious ceremony and a legal binding contract you can get down at the town hall. IIRC, civil unions entitle the members to some of the taxation credentials that married couples get. (Maybe shared insurance, I'm not quite clear how a civil union defines a spouse).
Keep in mind I can walk down to the local courthouse with 40 dollars and any random woman and marry her right then, no proof of love, commitment, etc, and the court will do it. Now I get a crapload of legal rights through that contract. But I can't go with a partner of 20+ years if they are the same gender. Some of the rights can be granted with a lawyer and a lot of money, but it's a hassle and way more expensive than a marriage contract.
All the idiots that think marriage has always been like it is now should watch this:
and I'm guessing religious gay partners will be turned down on the church doorstep aswell,
Im not all sure, but since we have same sex marriage in sweden I believe it would all under discrimination to deny same sex marriage in the big ole church.
edit: actually, it was quite recent this year, seems like every major democratic party voted yes, except for.. wait for it...
Lol, look how dumb you are.
Wow, double dumb. How about the fact that blacks couldn't marry whites and were owned as property for a while in the good ol US of A within this century? How about the fact that gay, lesbian, and bi people cannot marry their preferred gender, which is indeed a right denied them, granted straight couples currently. Marriage is a legal contract in the US that's been hijacked by the church, and it carries legal rights with it that gay couples are currently denied, 1,400 legal rights in some states.
Um....wow. Such vitriol. And I don't even live in Texas. (or have it listed as my current location)
Is marriage a basic civil liberty? I'm pretty sure its not. According to the state, it is a social contract, and is determined by state governments and not the federal government. Civil liberties are defined in the Bill of Rights. If its not a civil liberty, then there should be no objection to the phrase "liberty and justice for all."
The 10 year old in question is misinterpreting the pledge. This is an understandable mistake for a 10 year old, even a spoiled, pretentious one. I definitely object to people treating this child as if he is some sort of idealistic revolutionary, just because he agrees with their particular outlook on a "hot" topic.
and I'm guessing religious gay partners will be turned down on the church doorstep aswell,
Im not all sure, but since we have same sex marriage in sweden I believe it would all under discrimination to deny same sex marriage in the big ole church.
edit: actually, it was quite recent this year, seems like every major democratic party voted yes, except for.. wait for it...
the christian democratic party.
Churches in the US can deny anything they want. They can refuse to marry straight witches, they can refuse to marry interacial couples, etc. Even if tomorrow the supreme court ruled that all gays can marry in any state, churches could still refuse to marry gay couples. Conversely, right now there are several denominations that would LIKE to marry gay couples, and are not allowed to.
You know, there was a point in time where people thought black people should not be allowed the same rights as other people. Then, over time, people realized that belief was really fucking stupid and stopped believing it. We also thought women didn't deserve the same rights as men, and then we realized that's really fucking stupid and stopped believing it.
When did that happen? Racism is still prevalent in the US. the supreme court had to put the racist bigots in their place and escort by armed national guard black students into schools. Civil rights in the US are not granted by popular opinion slowly coming around, nor should it be. The US is a republic, not a democracy, despite most Americans not knowing the difference.
Um....wow. Such vitriol. And I don't even live in Texas. (or have it listed as my current location)
Is marriage a basic civil liberty? I'm pretty sure its not. According to the state, it is a social contract, and is determined by state governments and not the federal government. Civil liberties are defined in the Bill of Rights. If its not a civil liberty, then there should be no objection to the phrase "liberty and justice for all."
The 10 year old in question is misinterpreting the pledge. This is an understandable mistake for a 10 year old, even a spoiled, pretentious one. I definitely object to people treating this child as if he is some sort of idealistic revolutionary, just because he agrees with their particular outlook on a "hot" topic.
Liberty = being able to choice what you want, gay people can't choice to marry.
Justice = Fairness, is not allowing gays to marry fair?
Um....wow. Such vitriol. And I don't even live in Texas. (or have it listed as my current location)
Is marriage a basic civil liberty? I'm pretty sure its not. According to the state, it is a social contract, and is determined by state governments and not the federal government. Civil liberties are defined in the Bill of Rights. If its not a civil liberty, then there should be no objection to the phrase "liberty and justice for all."
The 10 year old in question is misinterpreting the pledge. This is an understandable mistake for a 10 year old, even a spoiled, pretentious one. I definitely object to people treating this child as if he is some sort of idealistic revolutionary, just because he agrees with their particular outlook on a "hot" topic.
This is just too much dumb to address. Just rest assured you're an ignorant homophobe, because you are.
i saw the title to this thread and instantly wanted to see how long it'd take poop to let loose the gay rights and anti-american mumbo jumbo.
1+ douche point to poop.
anyways, i think its a tad silly how big of a deal this is. I had to say this all the time back in gradeschool. Majority of us never said it or just jumbled random words.
It just shows you how easy it is these days to get on tv by talking about gay rights, immigrants or having 8 kids at once.
Giving out douche points for feeling strongly about his own human rights now? Its FACT that gay people are discriminated against.
Personally i think it sounds stupid to recite this pledge every morning or at all for that matter. Atleast let kids become old enough to know what they are saying before pushing it on them.
Also why is it every time we have a thread about civil rights, the people with the absolute DUMBEST, most ignorant viewpoints, have Texas listed as their location?
By the way, it's a rhetorical question. I lived there for 2 years, I know why.
Even if tomorrow the supreme court ruled that all gays can marry in any state, churches could still refuse to marry gay couples.
And they should be able to, because it's a faith issue, not a civil rights issue. If something directly contravenes the tenets of a church's core beliefs, they shouldn't have to compromise because of pressure from the state, central government or anyone else, even if people disagree with it. If people live in a state (or country) allowing same-sex unions, there are options to do so aside from doing so in a church.
But a church should be allowed to wed gay couples if they chose to, im sure there would be enough churches willing to do to it. Most importantly (imo) gay marriage in whatever form it would have should mean equal legal rights as for hetero couples.
haha, i'm actually from missouri, so i can't be marked as a gaywad hating white prick. Ghandi and MLK never post on this forum, so i don't know if their douches.
but I'm pretty sure MLK didn't fight for black rights by labeling all white people fat redneck crackers.
poop... why so much hate? seems you always post so hateful instead of trying to find a happy medium. life is too short to be angry all the time. nothing positive comes out of going so harsh about your views... even if the opposing side throws some nasty shit, the better person usually prevails.
but if it makes you feel better. go ahead and call me a homophobe,redneck and all that other good stuff. I'm going on vacation.
Looks like we need to rename this thread "Gay Marriage RAWR", since the kid is hardly the central point being discussed here now.
The abundance of wild exaggerations and derisive sarcasm isn't really making anyone look good here, either. I don't recall ever hearing of Ghandi or MLK ridiculing or insulting a person they disagreed with, despite how much they had good reason to be upset over.
Standing up and defending for what your beliefs and values makes you a douche?
I guess Ghandi and Martin Luther King Jr were douches, too.
Wait a minute. I'm standing up for my beliefs and values. And I'm doing so in a way that causes no harm to anyone. And for my trouble, you call me an idiot and an ignorant homophobe.
These threads never turn out good, I learned that going on 6 years ago, I've matured into a bitter douche bag since then. (J/K I'm mellow like happy cat now)
Well this has all the makings of a 50 page thread, we just need someone to make a horribly incensitive comment about homosexuals, the united states, or laywers. No i take that back, f*ck lawyers.
the US is full of fucking homos, most lawyers are homos, in fact, i'm surprised you're even able to procreate at all, since all your homo lawyers sue everyone for everything, how have you got money to pay for artificial insemination?!
yes yes, this kid is the fucking rosa parks of gay rights. Go get em tiger.
And poop "Go jump off a bridge" with all due respect since looking back over the thread you must be pointing your DUMBEST, most ignorant viewpoints stick at me you apparently didn't read my arguments and jumped on the "HE'S AN ANTIGAY TRAIN!". I have no problems with gays getting equal rights although I have something wrong with a 10 year old kid not doing what a teacher asked when even when he's just standing up and 'NOT' saying the pledge. At 10 years old you do what your asked in school as long as it's reasonable. It's a reasonable assumption 'at 10' to stand up and say the pledge. At least stand up while it's being recited. It's been argued in the past for religious and personal reasons you do not have to say the pledge but for fucks sake respect the teacher enough to stand the fuck up. And then to top it off, tell the teacher to pretty much fuck the right off. That's the point.
You can make it about the gay agenda and complain about your gay rights but don't push that on me because it's not what I've said here. Reread and comprehend. And again, I love how when people disagree with someone else they resort to name calling... retards, dumb, ignorant, homophobes.. etc have all been bandied about today to label someone else that has differing views.. and you yourself are fighting to get rid of labels. Good show sir, good show.
Getting on television is not a laudable aspiration. I've seen some of the people that they show on television these days. No thank you.
And what is his message again? That not everyone gets "liberty and justice?" How does he come to this conclusion? Which minority in particular isn't granted basic civil liberties, or is denied justice? Who isn't being allowed to purchase property, get a fair trial by a jury of their peers, vote in general elections, etc...?
If an Arkansas youth wants to refuse to recite something, that is his right. Perhaps it wasn't his right back before WWII, but he hadn't even been born then. (rendering that bit of trivia moot in the current circumstances) No one is really denying him this right. And I don't really see any other basic rights being violated or ignored.
He would have a more defensible argument saying that he objects to the use of the word "indivisable," since it's use implies that state's don't have the right to secede.
Also, you can't say that children are more intelligent than we give them credit for, and then turn around and excuse this boy's lapse in logic because he's young. It's either one or the other.
Agreed. I really don't see why this is newsworthy.
So what, I don't stand for the pledge either. It has NOTHING to do with respect. Admittedly, at 10, you usually don't know all that much about the world, or even that you have the option to not stand. If I had known at that age that I didn't need to stand for the pledge, I wouldn't.
"I pledge Allegiance to the flag of the United States of America,
And to the republic for which it stands,
one nation, under God, indivisible,
with Liberty and Justice for all"
First of all, what is it? Some kind of legal contract so we have to listen to the government? We have the option to not pledge our allegiance to the country, and I always opt out of it.
Second, Our government is most certainly not a republic anymore. It should be, but we drifted to the condemned democracy. So, what exactly does this mean?
Third, I really think we are passed the "Under God" thing, I mean really. Atheists may be a hated group, but we need equality folks. I'm an atheist, and this doesn't offend me, it just irks me.
And of course the Liberty and Justice for all line, which means nothing.
The pledge is a pile of you-know-what, so he has the right to not say it; whether the teachers tells him to or not.
They are called "Unalienable Rights"
Sorry if none of that made sense, I am just a bit put off by Dekard's argument. Because it goes against some of the principles the USA was based on.
And poop "Go jump off a bridge" with all due respect since looking back over the thread you must be pointing your DUMBEST, most ignorant viewpoints stick at me you apparently didn't read my arguments and jumped on the "HE'S AN ANTIGAY TRAIN!". I have no problems with gays getting equal rights although I have something wrong with a 10 year old kid not doing what a teacher asked when even when he's just standing up and 'NOT' saying the pledge. At 10 years old you do what your asked in school as long as it's reasonable. It's a reasonable assumption 'at 10' to stand up and say the pledge. At least stand up while it's being recited. It's been argued in the past for religious and personal reasons you do not have to say the pledge but for fucks sake respect the teacher enough to stand the fuck up. And then to top it off, tell the teacher to pretty much fuck the right off. That's the point.
Just to make the argument that should be obvious to anyone with an iota of sense here, it is absolutely not alright to expect a kid to stand up and recite any sort of pledge against their will. It is not even alright to force a kid to stand up for it, as that is showing support for the pledge being said, which obviously the kid does not.
What that is, is a form of political brain washing. And what that results in, is a bunch of ignorant, brainwashed people.
It is alright for a teacher to ask a kid to recite the alphabet, that does not have any ideological implications. A pledge is different. It is not alright. More people should fight it.
If a teacher asked their students to get up and pledge allegiance to Scientology, or Al Quaida, should that student still blindly listen as you are saying they should? (The answer is "No" if you haven't figured it out yet.)
Replies
True, but what they do have is much closer to anything in the US.
Germany and Iceland don't have same sex marriage either, but in Iceland it's identical to marriage, and in Germany it's quite close and is currently being challenged in the supreme court equivalent.
Here's something to top that off. I think it should be a granted speech sent for every teacher, student in America, and (maybe) the world to watch at their schools.
-
[ame]
Big differences in the US.
No joint taxes.
You must pay taxes on healthcare coverage for your partner, whereas straight couples do not.
no hospital visitation rights or ability to make end of life decisions (so often times their estranged parents get to decide, and not their spouse of sometimes 20+ years)
No dual adoption (so if the single parent who did do the legal adoption dies, the child reverts to the state instead of the other parent that helped raise them)
No tax free inheritence of the other's posessions upon death. (if they leave you their house, bam, you owe all the taxes on it as if they gifted it to a stranger. Married couples pay nothing)
No visa/citizenship path for foreign spouses.
There are a lot more, but these are the biggies off the top of my head.
The difference between a religious ceremony and a legal binding contract you can get down at the town hall. IIRC, civil unions entitle the members to some of the taxation credentials that married couples get. (Maybe shared insurance, I'm not quite clear how a civil union defines a spouse).
All the idiots that think marriage has always been like it is now should watch this:
[ame]
Owned.
Im not all sure, but since we have same sex marriage in sweden I believe it would all under discrimination to deny same sex marriage in the big ole church.
edit: actually, it was quite recent this year, seems like every major democratic party voted yes, except for.. wait for it...
the christian democratic party.
Um....wow. Such vitriol. And I don't even live in Texas. (or have it listed as my current location)
Is marriage a basic civil liberty? I'm pretty sure its not. According to the state, it is a social contract, and is determined by state governments and not the federal government. Civil liberties are defined in the Bill of Rights. If its not a civil liberty, then there should be no objection to the phrase "liberty and justice for all."
The 10 year old in question is misinterpreting the pledge. This is an understandable mistake for a 10 year old, even a spoiled, pretentious one. I definitely object to people treating this child as if he is some sort of idealistic revolutionary, just because he agrees with their particular outlook on a "hot" topic.
Churches in the US can deny anything they want. They can refuse to marry straight witches, they can refuse to marry interacial couples, etc. Even if tomorrow the supreme court ruled that all gays can marry in any state, churches could still refuse to marry gay couples. Conversely, right now there are several denominations that would LIKE to marry gay couples, and are not allowed to.
When did that happen? Racism is still prevalent in the US. the supreme court had to put the racist bigots in their place and escort by armed national guard black students into schools. Civil rights in the US are not granted by popular opinion slowly coming around, nor should it be. The US is a republic, not a democracy, despite most Americans not knowing the difference.
Liberty = being able to choice what you want, gay people can't choice to marry.
Justice = Fairness, is not allowing gays to marry fair?
Marriage is a human right.
This is just too much dumb to address. Just rest assured you're an ignorant homophobe, because you are.
hehe, well just so there's no confusion we have no pledge. The idea of a 10 year old pledging allegiance to anything seems kinda bonkers to me
1+ douche point to poop.
anyways, i think its a tad silly how big of a deal this is. I had to say this all the time back in gradeschool. Majority of us never said it or just jumbled random words.
It just shows you how easy it is these days to get on tv by talking about gay rights, immigrants or having 8 kids at once.
I guess Ghandi and Martin Luther King Jr were douches, too.
You get points for pasting your argument in a relevant thread this time Poop.
Personally i think it sounds stupid to recite this pledge every morning or at all for that matter. Atleast let kids become old enough to know what they are saying before pushing it on them.
I'm a Texan ... FUCK YEAH!!!
- BoBo
And they should be able to, because it's a faith issue, not a civil rights issue. If something directly contravenes the tenets of a church's core beliefs, they shouldn't have to compromise because of pressure from the state, central government or anyone else, even if people disagree with it. If people live in a state (or country) allowing same-sex unions, there are options to do so aside from doing so in a church.
but I'm pretty sure MLK didn't fight for black rights by labeling all white people fat redneck crackers.
poop... why so much hate? seems you always post so hateful instead of trying to find a happy medium. life is too short to be angry all the time. nothing positive comes out of going so harsh about your views... even if the opposing side throws some nasty shit, the better person usually prevails.
but if it makes you feel better. go ahead and call me a homophobe,redneck and all that other good stuff. I'm going on vacation.
The abundance of wild exaggerations and derisive sarcasm isn't really making anyone look good here, either. I don't recall ever hearing of Ghandi or MLK ridiculing or insulting a person they disagreed with, despite how much they had good reason to be upset over.
WIN!
HAHAHAHA Josh left his machine on when he left work. I couldn't resist!
- BoBo
a religious church marriage is important for many people.
and what is hindering them is an old fashioned mis-intepretation of the bible.
Wait a minute. I'm standing up for my beliefs and values. And I'm doing so in a way that causes no harm to anyone. And for my trouble, you call me an idiot and an ignorant homophobe.
How is that fair or just?
i knew exactly who was responsible for this when i saw it HAHAHA!
it's okay, they get along now
Oh the irony of 2 boys holding hands while wearing those.
Assigning imaginary sexual connotations to an image of two young boys holding hands doesn't make it ironic.
Not too bad for less than 8 minutes
the US is full of fucking homos, most lawyers are homos, in fact, i'm surprised you're even able to procreate at all, since all your homo lawyers sue everyone for everything, how have you got money to pay for artificial insemination?!
jk, good on the kid tbh.
And poop "Go jump off a bridge" with all due respect since looking back over the thread you must be pointing your DUMBEST, most ignorant viewpoints stick at me you apparently didn't read my arguments and jumped on the "HE'S AN ANTIGAY TRAIN!". I have no problems with gays getting equal rights although I have something wrong with a 10 year old kid not doing what a teacher asked when even when he's just standing up and 'NOT' saying the pledge. At 10 years old you do what your asked in school as long as it's reasonable. It's a reasonable assumption 'at 10' to stand up and say the pledge. At least stand up while it's being recited. It's been argued in the past for religious and personal reasons you do not have to say the pledge but for fucks sake respect the teacher enough to stand the fuck up. And then to top it off, tell the teacher to pretty much fuck the right off. That's the point.
You can make it about the gay agenda and complain about your gay rights but don't push that on me because it's not what I've said here. Reread and comprehend. And again, I love how when people disagree with someone else they resort to name calling... retards, dumb, ignorant, homophobes.. etc have all been bandied about today to label someone else that has differing views.. and you yourself are fighting to get rid of labels. Good show sir, good show.
Agreed. I really don't see why this is newsworthy.
That's what.... he said?
"I pledge Allegiance to the flag of the United States of America,
And to the republic for which it stands,
one nation, under God, indivisible,
with Liberty and Justice for all"
First of all, what is it? Some kind of legal contract so we have to listen to the government? We have the option to not pledge our allegiance to the country, and I always opt out of it.
Second, Our government is most certainly not a republic anymore. It should be, but we drifted to the condemned democracy. So, what exactly does this mean?
Third, I really think we are passed the "Under God" thing, I mean really. Atheists may be a hated group, but we need equality folks. I'm an atheist, and this doesn't offend me, it just irks me.
And of course the Liberty and Justice for all line, which means nothing.
The pledge is a pile of you-know-what, so he has the right to not say it; whether the teachers tells him to or not.
They are called "Unalienable Rights"
Sorry if none of that made sense, I am just a bit put off by Dekard's argument. Because it goes against some of the principles the USA was based on.
Maybe thats just me
Just to make the argument that should be obvious to anyone with an iota of sense here, it is absolutely not alright to expect a kid to stand up and recite any sort of pledge against their will. It is not even alright to force a kid to stand up for it, as that is showing support for the pledge being said, which obviously the kid does not.
What that is, is a form of political brain washing. And what that results in, is a bunch of ignorant, brainwashed people.
It is alright for a teacher to ask a kid to recite the alphabet, that does not have any ideological implications. A pledge is different. It is not alright. More people should fight it.
If a teacher asked their students to get up and pledge allegiance to Scientology, or Al Quaida, should that student still blindly listen as you are saying they should? (The answer is "No" if you haven't figured it out yet.)