Modeling: Maya Vs. Max
polycounter lvl 10
I assumed this would be something that was discussed pretty frequently, but was pretty disappointed with search in this forum and few others.
Basically, this is what I have come to understand.
Most companies/clients I've seen ask for experience in Maya, but most people who have a huge preference seem to follow Max. In other words, I know between Max, Maya, Blender, and XSI, the same eventual goal can eventually be reached. But as far as actual concrete preference, I seem to find a "once you go Max you never go back" kind of thinking. I haven't really heard too much of a following for Maya, but people that use it just use it because it's industry standard and the most expensive.
I am coming from blender, but most of what I do is simply character sculpting in Zbrush atm.
However, when it comes to sub-d or making the cages, I would definitely like something with a faster workflow and greater possibilities than blender.
Basically, this is what I have come to understand.
Most companies/clients I've seen ask for experience in Maya, but most people who have a huge preference seem to follow Max. In other words, I know between Max, Maya, Blender, and XSI, the same eventual goal can eventually be reached. But as far as actual concrete preference, I seem to find a "once you go Max you never go back" kind of thinking. I haven't really heard too much of a following for Maya, but people that use it just use it because it's industry standard and the most expensive.
I am coming from blender, but most of what I do is simply character sculpting in Zbrush atm.
However, when it comes to sub-d or making the cages, I would definitely like something with a faster workflow and greater possibilities than blender.
Replies
My current problem list from early trials with Maya (could be 100% just my lack of experience with the program):
Axis almost immediately gets in the way of multiple-vertex selections. When I select one, if i want to select a vertex adjacent on a particular axis, the local axis is almost always in the way. It is incredibly annoying, and I either have to reselect or rotate the camera.
That leads to my next problem, that the box selection seems to indiscriminately select vertices behind the normals you are going for. This is very useful in a toggled sense, but I found no obvious way of toggling it to be "transparent" vs. visible. So when I could just box select vertices, I have to click them individually any time there are vertices behind (which is all the time).
Now that's it so far, all I've done is very very basic. I assume both of these problems are easily fixed, simply because they are so inhibiting i feel like it would double the average workflow time.
Learn the app, be the app.
and these are interesting comments. since i'm at a sort of nexus where i could really pursue any of these, just trying to dig for the general feeling of the community.
DEElekgolo why?
@malcolm thanks man, i mean i know it's always a juggling act for whatever project you're working on, just don't want to regret which one i really start to dive into
what's completely mind boggling to me is that they are both autodesk owned. and i understand that every year they get more and more similar. that company has driven me crazy in the past, but it's just honestly ridiculous that they would keep two programs seperate, that do like 90% the same thing. you end up paying money for a fraction of a program
They're both tools, they do nearly the same things, take time to learn them both when you get a chance. If you don't you're handicapping yourself. Stick to whatever you like using, avoid talking trash about the other apps (unless its blender then its open season).
and Vig, i am well aware of the fact that they are both tools, but almost everyone has a preference. just because something is a tool doesn't mean it can't be inefficient, or cumbersome. tools can be preferred and always improved upon, and i'd be a frustrated carpenter if someone told me a hammer and a nailgun were both just tools for the same job (which is true).
If I'd run a company myself I would seriously consider other alternatives such as Modo, Blender, XSI or hell even Sketchup.
haha.. I like that analogy
Oh and if someone knows of a function in max that is like separate in maya please tell me so I can go rub it in his face.
And yeah Ralusek, pretty much anyone telling you 'they're just tools, they all do the same thing anyways' is likely to be an ignorant loud mouth who never tried more than one or two of them :P Not talking about you Vig. Mostly talking about poeple who just want to sound smart and all.
Anyways my point of view is, they are VERY different as soon as you start working on 5k+ tris models.
Still I love it, its like Maya but it actually works.
If thats what you mean. Or you can chamfer the edges and click the checkbox that says "open"
I think Firecracker197 meant in maya the separate function will automatically separate meshes that aren't connected from each other (aka floating geo that's in one mesh).
I don't think there's a short cut in XSI to do it, but I normally just select a piece of the mesh I want to separate, "SHIFT"+"+" to expand my selection till it selects the whole piece geo (or multiple pieces), and then right click extract.
There's so much more customization to be had with max as well. Loads of scripts, viewport shaders, plugins, etc. Polyboost alone is invaluable. Hell, look at Per's max 2009 clean setup, it's barely recognizable.
Personally when I spent a couple months trying to learn maya I found it super clunky and it just seemed ancient. Too many hidden menus and a big clunky interface, and I couldn't imagine sitting down and modeling subd stuff with it for hours on end.
But this is all just my personal experience and viewpoint, and you should always use what you like most yadda yadda yadda... but the real reason why you should use max...
It includes a dark color scheme... :P
I found the workflow to be the fastest in blender when getting to sub-d modelling, but everyone finds his own.
the point to this is, you should look at yourself rather than your application when it comes to improving the workflow.
Damn, that is so true... One area where Max clearly wins over Maya.
My answer to this is usually: What can you learn more easily? If everyone you know uses max, go max and you have places to get help and vice versa. If you are learning, go with what is easiest to pick up and makes the most sense to you. Then once you have one under your belt it's easy enough to move to the other.
As someone who learned on Maya and ignorantly loved it for a few years, I would recommend Max. For simply modeling there's a lot of things to make your life easier. Out of the box it works a ton better than Maya. By now I have a mile long shelf and dozens of scripts to make Maya nicer to work with but it still lags behind when it comes to the destructive workflow, tools which require a lot of tweaking and busy interface.
Good luck.
Seriously, no Connect, no Chamfer in Maya? Those are like my most used tools when modeling. That together with Target Weld, which If I'm not mistaking, Maya also doesn't have? How about Cut with vertex snapping?
Sounds like i shouldn't even bother trying ... I mean my entire modeling workflow is pretty much based on these!
You can use 'Disconnect components' to create open edges.
At the end of the day, the all do the same, some just have better tools for doing certain things.
You're only using a small portion of what the package can do anyways, unless it's being used for cinematic's or some baked physics.
While "chamfer" is just "bevel" in Maya, it's true that Maya by default doesn't have a "Connect" function like Max (which is context sensitive and incredibly useful). It's like a faster version of the Split Polygon tool.
However Maya also has "insert Edge Loop" which Max doesn't have out of the box AFAIK. Both useful in their own right.
Xoliul: It's true that Maya doesn't have a target weld out of the box, however there are a few scripts for free which add this feature (i even wrote one, it's pretty easy). Also Maya's snapping in general is waaaaay nicer than Max's, vertex snapping in Maya is a breeze, it can almost be painful in Max sometimes.
i know that if u use group in max instead of attaching objects you can seperate it like maya too. but im not sure if you can seperate the mesh in one click for attached objects tho.
I got a question for maya users: does anyone know what is the equivalent of max align object based on pivot point in maya.
Sorry for correcting, but maya has the "merge vertex tool". works similar to max.
i used to model with max, too, and together with polyboost it was really a great package. switching to maya modeling tools(i started with 7.0) was hard, but i use 2010 now, and i think there is almost everything you need right in the box. just very few extra scripts needed.
one thing we always talk about here at work is that maya has all those features you need, but it's sometimes so hard to find them. i think it's just not so straighforward then max, but when take the time, you can model as fast as with any other package.
My slant towards Max is also because that's just what I'm used to. If I were a Maya user, the extra steps in the processes would be transparent to me and wouldn't matter. So it really depends on what app you started on. They're both good programs. In the end it's all about the user.
Hell, there's probably already one - have you checked scriptspot?
Yeah I mean I probably could check, but I just thought it was one of those annoying things that should have already been put in max, I mean if they are gunna put out a new version every year why do I still have to get outside scripts for like the simplest things??
From MAXScript menu, create a New Script. Copy and paste following code, then from editor menu Tools choose Evaluate All. You'll find the command in Customize User Interface... under category IllusionCatalyst Tools, named IC.DetachElements. Works with Editable Polys and creates instances of Modifiers found in the Stack
macroScript IC_DetachElements category:"IllusionCatalyst Tools" buttonText:"Detach Elements" tooltip:"IC.DetachElements" ( function getRandomMaxColor = ( local acMaxPalette = #( color 86 86 86, color 229 166 215, color 214 229 166, color 166 229 229, color 227 153 153, color 224 86 86, color 176 26 26, color 135 6 6, color 228 184 153, color 225 143 87, color 177 88 27, color 135 59 8, color 228 214 153, color 225 198 87, color 177 148 27, color 165 110 8, color 214 228 153, color 198 225 78, color 148 177 27, color 113 135 6, color 184 228 153, color 143 225 87, color 88 177 27, color 61 135 6, color 153 128 153, color 87 225 87, color 27 177 27, color 6 135 6, color 153 228 184, color 87 225 143, color 27 177 88, color 6 135 58, color 153 228 214, color 87 225 198, color 27 177 148, color 6 135 113, color 154 215 229, color 88 199 225, color 28 149 177, color 8 110 135, color 154 185 229, color 88 144 225, color 28 89 177, color 8 61 138, color 154 154 229, color 88 88 225, color 28 28 177, color 8 8 136, color 184 155 229, color 140 88 225, color 85 28 177, color 57 8 136, color 213 154 229, color 196 88 225, color 145 28 177, color 108 8 136, color 229 154 215, color 225 88 199, color 177 28 149, color 138 8 110, color 228 153 184, color 225 87 143, color 177 27 88, color 141 7 58) return acMaxPalette[random 1 64] ) function detachElements instanceMods:true randomWire:true = ( local theSelection = selection as Array if (theSelection.count > 0) do ( local iNumFacesLastElem = 0 local baElemFaces = #{} local sName = "" local theNewNode = undefined local theNewNodes = #() undo on ( for theNode in theSelection where ((classOf theNode.baseObject) == Editable_Poly) do ( if ( (polyOp.getNumFaces theNode.baseObject) != ((polyOp.getElementsUsingFace theNode.baseObject 1).numberSet) ) then ( with redraw off ( local baModViewStatus = #{} for i = 1 to theNode.modifiers.count do ( if (theNode.modifiers[i].enabledInViews == true) do ( baModViewStatus[i] = true theNode.modifiers[i].enabledInViews = false ) ) while ((polyOp.getNumFaces theNode) > 0) do ( if (keyboard.escPressed) do ( throw "**Esc Pressed**" ) baElemFaces = polyOp.getElementsUsingFace theNode.baseObject 1 sName = uniqueName theNode.name polyOp.detachFaces theNode baElemFaces delete:true asNode:true name:sName theNewNode = (getNodeByName sName exact:true) if (instanceMods == true) do for i = theNode.modifiers.count to 1 by -1 do addModifier theNewNode theNode.modifiers[i] if (randomWire == true) do theNewNode.wireColor = getRandomMaxColor() append theNewNodes theNewNode ) for i = 1 to theNode.modifiers.count do theNode.modifiers[i].enabledInViews = baModViewStatus[i] delete theNode ) ) ) select theNewNodes ) ) ) on execute do ( detachElements() ) )Oh your so nice! I'll load this up once I get home! I should complain on polycount more often
anyway, thank you a lot for all the input. bottom line: if i'm serious, i will learn both. i just thought i could get an answer regarding which one is better to have as a "home" program that i'm most comfortable with. however, everyone is still pretty divided, so i'm just going to continue with maya for now
you'd think they'd let you choose how you wanted them to work by now, modo can manage to do it
Excuse me? I am in fact very much a girl.
I haven't tried but can you switch viewport nav in Maya? I've always just gone with default and adjusted fine after a few min but would be cool to be able to change it around.
if i had to switch, probably would use switcher, alt+mouse button makes far more sense than ctrl+alt+f12+alt137+lmb
it's such a basic thing too, screw you autodesk
I hate maxs selection tool when navigating a complex scene, its rubbish it will often select something behind the camera rather than something just infront of, aaaagh
BUT it does have an attach that doesnt break object properties which is great
I hate the way max stores geometry, it makes it alot harder/impossible to create certain scripts, means you have to use smoothing groups and editing normals is very unreliable.......BUT it does mean you can throw alot more polies around
I hated mayas UI untill i got used to it and configured it to my liking at which point i loved it, I liked Maxes cos i could find stuff easily, but i hate it because its tooo rigid.
the world is full of contradictions and HATE revel
if you can handle shortcuts -> maya
if youre too dumb for shortcuts (me) max
if you can customize your shortcuts to your preference you can go for both
However I also like Max and have no problem using it.
Though, my mate whose a senior animator over at quantic dream absolutely swears by using maya for rigging / animation - having worked on the driver series of games for 1 - 2 and 3 with maya, and then our last project together in max - having a taste of the development pipeline in both apps, hes a strong advocate for Maya - rigging / animation.