Sessler's Soapbox
polycounter lvl 18
http://g4tv.com/thefeed/blog/post/700461/Sesslers-Soapbox-Adam-Calls-Infinity-Ward-Out.html
So I'm just getting into podcasts and got some random video game themed ones downloaded to my little ipod device here. I just watched this video, linked above, and thought it was pure foggotry and wanted to share. Make sure to keep his very first comment in the video in mind, specifically the words he chose to use, as he continues to 'soapbox' and eventually get to his point.
Here's the video he references:
[ame]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IuFSVpZJnAk&feature=player_embedded[/ame]
"fag" is the equivalent of saying "nigger"? Sticks and stones can break my bones, but actual hate crimes will kill me. I'm interested in hearing people's thoughts on this. Does being called a fag prevent one from openly admitting to being homosexual? Why so butt-hurt? Cum on. Can't we all just have an orgy? and get along?
I guess I have a peeve for stuff like this. I want to be able to joke about whatever and not feel I'm going to get bible beaten or persecuted for it.
I mean, I understand respecting people, and I will recognize it and use the right language when necessary. but why so serious?
What I think is silly about his view, is that this dude is saying "fuck/fucking" this and that. It's not slandering a sexual preference or race, sure, I don't give a shit if he uses naughty words, I'm a grown up, but how contradictory is that? I think it's pretty well understood, the word "fuck" is a taboo word. They did censor it out... doubt his own network would censor the word "fag". But that's just because the world hates gay people, eh? ... "I'm not even going to say the word," he says. lulz. Talk about being respectful to an audience, watching a widely broadcasted format. Keep talking there sparky. I think he may be over-reacting just a bit. Sorry if I offended anyone, you have a choice to be mad or not. I'm not threatening anyone, I'm just speaking words.
So I'm just getting into podcasts and got some random video game themed ones downloaded to my little ipod device here. I just watched this video, linked above, and thought it was pure foggotry and wanted to share. Make sure to keep his very first comment in the video in mind, specifically the words he chose to use, as he continues to 'soapbox' and eventually get to his point.
Here's the video he references:
[ame]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IuFSVpZJnAk&feature=player_embedded[/ame]"fag" is the equivalent of saying "nigger"? Sticks and stones can break my bones, but actual hate crimes will kill me. I'm interested in hearing people's thoughts on this. Does being called a fag prevent one from openly admitting to being homosexual? Why so butt-hurt? Cum on. Can't we all just have an orgy? and get along?
I guess I have a peeve for stuff like this. I want to be able to joke about whatever and not feel I'm going to get bible beaten or persecuted for it.
I mean, I understand respecting people, and I will recognize it and use the right language when necessary. but why so serious?
What I think is silly about his view, is that this dude is saying "fuck/fucking" this and that. It's not slandering a sexual preference or race, sure, I don't give a shit if he uses naughty words, I'm a grown up, but how contradictory is that? I think it's pretty well understood, the word "fuck" is a taboo word. They did censor it out... doubt his own network would censor the word "fag". But that's just because the world hates gay people, eh? ... "I'm not even going to say the word," he says. lulz. Talk about being respectful to an audience, watching a widely broadcasted format. Keep talking there sparky. I think he may be over-reacting just a bit. Sorry if I offended anyone, you have a choice to be mad or not. I'm not threatening anyone, I'm just speaking words.
Replies
-It's used to address a particular sort of person (someone who is homosexual, in this case).
-Because of [tradition/religion/politics] this sort of person is considered to be undesirable.
-The term is then used in a derogative sense because being that sort of person is undesirable.
-Over time, prejudice levels drop and people begin to protest against the term being used.
-At the same time, people decide to willingly adopt the term because they feel it is nothing to be ashamed of so why would it be offensive?
-Everyone ends up in a giant cluster fuck where people who are all working towards the same goal (reducing prejudice) are all fucking each other over since half the people think the term shouldn't be used and half the people think it should be used so much it seems totally harmless. No matter what you do, it's offensive, and you get shit for it.
And eventually, after decades of running in circles spouting the same narrow-minded arguments over and over again, we all get tired and stop caring.
On that note, nigger fag chink broad slutmonkey.
I like the bleep-cake metaphor.
The funding was provided by them. Which is a god damn outrage.
I'm of the opinion Infinity Ward knew exactly what would happen when they released this video: people would get offended, IF would pull the video and issue a fake apology while grinning with dollar signs in their eyes about their manufactured controversy gets more coverage for their game. No such thing as bad publicity eh?
What will they do next? Release nude pics someone "hacked" off MW2's cellphone? A sex tape for MW3?
Not an over-reaction. Okay, I'll agree that standing up against hate is fine. I don't see he's doing that, he's not a hero, he's a whiner.
Oh metaphors, how I do love you. With his, he's saying the joke/message in the advert was ruined by a "FAGS" acronym.
I think he's full of "thrown-out beautiful champagne cake". He draws the line and decides to beat his chest at something that was hardly noticeable and blow it up, he obviously hates the word.
He says he's not going to boycott the game because of the advertisement. Which is cool. The company did apologize and stated it wasn't their intention to offend anyone. But, it is apart of the game... the vocal Xbox Live crowd kinda is as well... is someone digging the shit cake out of the trash? ;P
Swear all you want when gaming, don't single out people by belittling their life style, religion, or political views.
And on top of that? Don't, as a developer (Infinity Ward), come out and in a round-about-way APPROVE of this.
Crap, I just read my reply and it sounded like it was me commenting on YOU. Hahaha i promise you it wasn't, and it was me saying what his points were in the video. I edited it to hopefully be more clear
Carry on my man.
I take it that was referring to me, obviously he's got nothing on the average potty mouthed 15yo xbox user, but he seems to spend a lot of time whining about other groups of gamers as well, his one's on L4D2 and D3 spring to mind.
Him saying the use of the word "fags" in a jovial manner is "hate speech" is really over the top imho. I don't go off and cry when I hear "white and nerdy" by weird al. Maybe I just don't like him, after all he comes across as an arrogant prick with a superiority complex in all these videos to me.
-edit- I agree the video is in poor taste, but it simply isn't worth this guys crazed ramblings from my point of view.
I think he totally over reacted, which is weird as i normally find what he has to say rather amusing. I can see the professionalism side of it, and as a company being that, childish? is stretching it a bit far. But to mock grenade spammers, that shits fine.
Like gavku was saying, I think this last ep of South Park was very relevant. I think acc touched on what they're really trying to accomplish in the episode too. The word has had so many meanings and it's really now used as a derogatory term for people who annoy us and not specifically just homosexual people. And really I think that despite the word being linked to homosexuals, it's used more as a general term for someone who is undesirable, rather than referring to homosexuals, especially seeing as how it had several meanings even before it was linked to them.
Sorry if that didn't make any sense, I'm really tired
Also, I have no respect for Adam Sessler, he does this thing every week and sometimes you can really tell that he's just trying to find "controversial" things to talk about just to get a response. Extended Play (now x-play) has been a joke for the longest time, so he tried to swing it in the opposite way so people would take him and G4 seriously and Sessler's Soapbox is part of that.
i'm actually pretty glad we forgot to get that channel again when we switched providers.
Lol - latest southpark was spot on. I feel like the show might be in an upswing
Well, it seems to me we have a similar understanding of what he is saying. I didn't notice him mention "political views", he may have, but, I'm sure there is some sort of slanderous term that gets Democrats all fired up, and that's basically what I got from it; He is fine with profanity, but wants people to stop using slanderous terms in general because they are damaging society as a whole.
Specifically, he's talking about video game commercials and users on Xbox Live. More so, the use of the word "fag" and its effects on homosexuals.
Not to mention, but mentioning, its comparison to the racial term "nigger" and "many other racial slanders" and their equally as damaging influence on their respective parties.
From that, I think two things. One, I think he's being rather uptight about the the use of the word "fag". And two, He's fucking cussing.
Xbox Live is comprised of gamers and I think Microsoft wants their space to be an enjoyable realm, for everyone, that is a safe and healthy environment, which would, in some cases, require a 'politically correct' one. Live offers features that help users avoid profanity and racial slurs, without penalizing those who are okay with it.
I'm willing to bet at least half of the gamers that make up that community, not only don't mind it, but enjoy it. They don't want to fold their arms politely, sit up straight, be professional while shooting video game character's heads off, WHILE WEARING THEIR PANTS! They want to cut loose, forget about all that stuff they have to do IRL, outside of this realm, without their pants.
If you think its a big deal, you have options, don't want to be called a fag by the random public? Then play with your equally polite, correct, and trusted friends online that don't compare you to those scary and weird homosexual people. Have some good 'ol clean fun exploding bodies with your kids, or grandma, or whatever.
Some people like to cuss and throw around some shit talk, it's half the fun for gamers like me. That includes acting like a racist bigot. I'm not really, I swear. I do find the act quite hilarious at times, while in good company and in the right setting. If it crosses the line, it's time to turn a heel, anyone would lose my respect otherwise.
It's a big hit with the comedians these days. They're joking. It's not real hate, it's a joke on the hate. There is a blurry line between the two, I know, but it's not real hate. Real hate, sure, pump the breaks on it, get serious if you need to lay down the law. But I'd put on your pants first, it'd be hard to take you seriously. Just like taking a serious idea and comparing to shitting on a cake or preaching peace with equally harsh words.
Lesson learned.
No, profanity is okay, it's the word "fag" that is too much. \sarcasm
I wonder what would happen if calling people, say, big-nosed mockie kikes became a more trendy insult for the teenage XBox Live gamer. Would that mean that people were slowly becoming more anti-Semitic, or would people say that Jews just really need to chill, because we were all just kidding, man? Does how much a particular group has had to suffer play a part in determining the social acceptability of insults aimed at them?
Its the only civil rights issue in the USA that is actually voted on in each state. Women and Blacks rights were all decided in court, that's what the courts are for, to protect the rights of the minorities from the majority.
If it's "just a word" and as long as you say it "with no meaning behind it", you know, like "nigga", then please feel free to refer to someone as a border jumping wet-back/yellow-faced slopes/nips/gooks/kikes/fags/spear chuckers/fags or whatever you can think of. It's just a word. No power behind it right? Or is it only cool within your group of friends or online where you're not face to face? Hahaha!! It was just a joke right?
Well, some people don't mess around like that. Remember that.
Respect.
You're right. Where does the line get drawn?
Obviously the world needs to hold a vote and make a list of every word I shouldn't say to anyone at any time. Otherwise I'm going to accidentally get my face hit repeatedly.
You can call it lesson learned or whatever. And he was right, I have no clue what it's like. No matter how much empathy you have, you will never know what it's like.
==============
Sectaurs, my rule is:
- If that little voice in your head thinks it's a bad idea, chances are it's a bad idea. This usually applies to anything.
- If you need to look around before you say it, you probably should not say it anyways.
- Respect.
==============To say "just have a thick skin" bugs me. I'm dealing with having a "thick skin" every day. And everyone has a breaking point. You try to not notice it, but you do. Either I'm scary, dangerous, sad to be me (because they read up on Black History, or assume I'm dirt poor and struggled from the ghetto) or I am cool (again because of TV/music/sports). I don't see it as being racist, just fucking TV ruined it and they have no clue.
Ok, back to work ya'll.
I don't think the point of that episode was to change the definition of the word, moreso to outline how peoples' treatment of it and thoughts concerning it have changed over hundreds of years, and are currently changing, and will keep changing so long as the word is in existence.
The episode also tried to outline the idea about why/how words are derogatory.
Its like the modern turn around of the words geek/nerd. They used to be insults, hurled by ignorant people, and now they are badges worn with pride by the people who the words used to insult.
The problem here is that some people's little voices don't think it's a bad idea. It's too subjective. This is what is getting them into trouble.
/shrug
there's never an answer to this argument that pleases everyone.
there is nothing subjective about it. Fag is absolutely and unequivocally the same as saying nigger or kike.
Straight white males don't get to say what words aren't offensive to the minority in question.
I bet more people are upset I singled out "straight white males" than this guy saying fag, despite SWMs never ever having been on the opposite end of discrimination in the western world, and gay people still to this day fight for basic human rights within the US which is where the majority of polycount is posting from.
So in short, it's objective, fag is and always was and always will be offensive when said as an insult, just like nigger. If you disagree, you're wrong.
My point was simply that you can't say "if it's wrong, don't say it" because, well, people that say it don't think it's wrong.
...objectively it hasn't always been a derogatory reference towards homosexuals...
Edit: The rest of your argument is pretty much hyperbole, but the above can pretty much be unequivocally addressed just by looking at the etymology of the word...
I guess more on topic though, yeah, I'm offended by fag used as a slur. It breeds hatred towards homosexuals even when overused against non-homosexualsI mean, they call everyone fags, so what happens when they actually meet someone who is gay? It's not okay; it's very immature. The world in general could use a little more maturity.
I'm very disappointed in some politicians in the US, for example, for retaining this immaturity, which is singling people out based on their life style, religion and political views. People just end up arguing amongst themselves and against each other. What ever happened to being for something? Peace, for example? Equality? etc.
If elected officials are still stuck in an archaic rut of prejudice and fear, you've got to wonder what good they do "for the people."
This is a double-edged sword. On the one hand, it insures open dialogue, and removes most of the consequences for speaking your mind. And this means people get to say what they feel, a lot more often. There are a lot of people who enjoy and appreciate this freedom very much, and make proper use of it.
But there are also people who abuse this freedom by saying stupid, short-sighted things that are hurtful to others. Sometimes, such things need to be said. (to instruct or educate) Other times, they are just hurtful, and no one benefits.
The real problem is that you can't remove this right. If you do, you are marginalizing one group for the benefit of another. Attempting to prevent stupid people from saying stupid things will empower the government to prevent smart people from saying smart things. And where does it end?
So the price we pay for this right is putting up with ass-hats who don't utilize it properly.
I don't know, man, nigger-jew-fag is like the trinity of online gaming insults in my experience.
Anyway, likening fag/faggot to saying "fuck" or cursing is a complete cop-out. While you may mean it in a relatively harmless manner, the word cannot be divided from its origins and connotations.
The implicit connection is continually made that gays are undesireables, and that being gay is outside of the sphere of normalcy. The subliminal message is stronger than the seemingly superficial word choice.
THAT said, if it's funny enough and if it's the right context (i.e. not a commercial), generally anything goes, so don't bitch about political correctness. Just don't be a apologist for saying stupid shit if someone calls you on it.
But on the other hand... people have called me a bitch before... It hurt my feelings greatly. Perhaps if we banned usage of that word, then that would mean they like me now!
Well, it really depends. There are actually some people these days who have never been educated as to the context of such language. They tend to be of a much younger generation, and were raised in an environment where such social/racial tensions didn't exist.
They are actually quite fortunate, so I would encourage people not to get too upset/violent if they use offensive terms. It is entirely possible that they picked it up somewhere, and aren't aware of the full import of what they've said. It is a much better idea to confront them directly, and explain to them clearly your personal feelings about what they just said. If they are shocked, and apologize for their comments, then you have helped further their social education without overstepping your own rights to free speech.
If they laugh in your face, then they must have understood what they said from the beginning. In this case, you can take their social education up a level with a nice mouthful of knuckles.
My thoughts : the views of the population vary so much but it seems that it's our individuality that causes conflict even though this is the most interesting factor regarding "us".
Modern society should tolerate all preferences, hetrosexual, bisexual, homosexual, white, black but they don't and it seems the ones that cause the harm are those on the extreme side of sexuality. When it comes down to it it's always about sex, without that we would be nothing more than a collection of pure logical thinkers without emotion and no drive to accomplish anything, fuck that!
It could be paradise if people could forget their differences...
I didn't call anyone a bitch, I said don't bitch, with all misogyny intentional.
No one is suggesting banning anything, I just said be willing to own up to it if you say something discriminatory - which I just did!
edit: My mistake. And here I was, looking forward to a good argument.