Who's the original artist on this piece? (Possible plagiarism?)
polycounter lvl 19
Browsing some portfolios as of late I noticed something and wanted to bring it up.
Sean Binder's portfolio piece. I assume its from Deadly Creatures, since the other guys' portfolio says so:
http://www.seanbinder.com/desertScorpionPage.html
Samuel Howard's portfolio piece. Click Portfolio at the top, its a flash based portfolio (ugh).
http://www.artofsamhoward.com/index2.php
While it is just a Scorpion model, letting someone get away with this sort of thing is bad for business.
So - anyone know these guys? What the hell is going on?
Sean Binder's portfolio piece. I assume its from Deadly Creatures, since the other guys' portfolio says so:
http://www.seanbinder.com/desertScorpionPage.html
Samuel Howard's portfolio piece. Click Portfolio at the top, its a flash based portfolio (ugh).
http://www.artofsamhoward.com/index2.php
While it is just a Scorpion model, letting someone get away with this sort of thing is bad for business.
So - anyone know these guys? What the hell is going on?
Replies
Sean's Black Widow: http://www.seanbinder.com/blackWidowPage.html
Samuel's Black Wido: http://www.artofsamhoward.com/index2.php (Click Portfolio, Make sure its on Deadliest Creatures, click NEXT > until you get the Black Widow).
EDIT: The Gila monsters too? The fuuuuuuck..
So I'm not sure what's going on. I've heard of people forgetting who did what on a project and accidentally claiming work as their own... as you know, things can get crazy during crunch and you can forget what you worked on. Though a whole character (edit: or two!) is a bit hard to believe.
Or maybe one guy did a little work on it, and the other guy did 90% and there's just a miscommunication on each portfolio as to the extent of the work done.
Third option, one of them is full of shite and not being honest.
I have no idea though, just a guess.
the only thing I can think of is that they both worked on them.. maybe one was the modeler one was the texture artist. it's odd that they both have such detailed views but I guess it can be pulled off fairly easily..
(quoting myself) I think that's the most likely scenario. I said myself I didn't really buy the 'not knowing' thing. Just trying to offer up some even remotely reasonable ideas since they worked at the same studio.
Its not the case. Sean did the whole thing. He's going to post here soon...to set the record straight.
I know about the discussions between Sean and Sam and can say that the Sam doesn't seem to be very reasonable or even care about the issues presented.
It's pretty easy to see that the models on Seans are a bit higher in polygon counts then Sams and the texture / uv layouts are exacts. You can see in some of Seans texture sheets there is some more detail that is not in the to others and when you look at the others you can see it's just been painted over with a flat color.
So my guess and take on the whole thing. After Sean left Rainbow they did some revisions to the textures and optimized the meshes.
That's fine. That happens everywhere BUT you don't claim a mesh you optimized as your own work and not credit the original artist. That is just messed up and a big no no.
where is the credit,....
or ..at the very least, mention that you contributed to a model/texture that another artist has completed, And bulletpoint exactly what you did.
For instance,...
1.If you remove every other edge span on a model to reduce the poly count, you can not claim that you modeled it completely. What you have successfully done is> optimized it.
2.If you adjust the hugh/ sat , brightness contrast of a texture, you can not claim you painted it from scratch. What you have successfully done is> Color corrected it.
Sorry this has to be my very first post on Polycount.
These are all mine.
100%
http://www.seanbinder.com/deadlyCreaturesGallery.html
Oh and kick ass models Sean. Welcome to Polycount!
lol! having watched karate kid recently that made me laugh.
HA! I know just what you mean. I didn't know you worked for Wahoo, I worked down the hall from them for a few years. Awesome bunch of guys.
Would you call a level that you placed assets created by others in, yours?
Be careful opening a can of worms thread like this.
No, it isn't.
Great work on the creatures, Sean. I actually think the Gila Monster is my favorite.
douche bag thievery shouldn't be tolerated. I'd really like to read an explanation...
haha, would someone really just forget to mention that their position was level designer? Come on, be realistic.
Liam - what?
"Blah & blah created by me. X% of props and textures created by [name, company name, etc]"
A large difference of crediting full environments that you've contributed to AND dressed yourself vs. individual art assets (like a scorpion) is that a handful of artists could have worked on a handful of props. So keeping it general, as I do, offers a chance for others to inquire about what is your work versus others. (Removing the pain in the ass of listing every prop & every artist while still making it clear its not all entirely yours). And so long as you're 100% honest, it works out great
If you placed other people's art assets to make a level, then you say you designed the level, and used <insert specific names of assets> created by <insert names of people>. It's pretty easy...
Er, I wouldn't write that out. A lot of people can touch a lot of props. IMO keeping it general (see above) allows you to talk about the scene so you can point out what your tasks on it were, and which artwork is not yours specifically.
Or, you can work through the headache and do this on every image:
Scene dress by: Dick McArtist
Prop 1: Teddy L'Craux
Prop 2: Blah de Blah
Prop 3: Blah MacBlah
Prop 4...
Prop 5...
Prop 6...
Prop 7...
..head explode.
even if you dont feel like crediting a hundred persons working on a mega epic scene, atleast mention what you did do on that scene.
johnny raptor> Let me just clarify,All the work posted on my site, is done entirely by me about 2 years ago while I was employed at rainbow and on the deadly creatures team. Now in a 1-2 year time span things change and models are optimized color corrected etc. etc. This is understood. So if by
"im sure they both worked on all those assets." You mean that the models shipped in game were worked on by both of us, ...then yes, you are correct.
The Issue I see is that the models hes showing WERE WORKED ON BY BOTH OF US. So I simply request he state exactly what he did and make it clear . The last person to open, adjust, and save a file, does not deserve 100% of the credit for that piece, in my opinion
The work I am showing was worked on by me, and me alone.
Start to finish>
modeled, UVed, textured,posed, rendered.
Super Kudos to Adam for raising this issue, and to Sean for clarifying his role in creating the art. I'm on board with Jesse Moody here; the originator (designer) of the content gets the lion's share of 'authorship'. Often they deserve outright authorship - especially in cases where they've created the look, original model, surfaces, and UVs. As optimization of some/many assets is an almost inevitable result of prepping a project for the shelf, any 'optimized' or 'tweaked' content shown in an artists' portolio should at worst credit the original developer of that content. Our studio requires accurate attributions per portfolio piece from any applicant, and appropriation of art is not acceptable.
Our art is more and more becoming a collective effort, with multiple hands touching assets. If the authorship of a project's content is credited solely to the last artist who touched the content, we're undercutting our peers, art, industry - and the credibility the majority of us fight for every day we create.
/soapbox
I look forward to Sam stepping up to the professional plate, and clarifying his contribution to what is evidently + principally Sean's work.
Keep up the good work, PolyCount!
I agree full heartedly with everything that's been said, but i feel Theres one more aspect to this issue that needs to be pointed out.
when I first saw Seans name on page one, for a few seconds, it entered my head that Sean might actually be a hack and that he was up to no good. That thought quickly died out when I remembered all of the amazing work that Sean produced while I was at raven- The guys a machine!
The ugly side to this is that anyone who hasnt seen Seans ability first hand, and stumbles onto these two sites, will immediatly throw up a red flag and associate something negetive with both parties. (untill proven otherwise)
Its good moral standings to give credit, but in addition, with situations like this its almost imparative the original author demands clarity on the other persons part.
The industry is small, and lets face it, they all dont troll polycount and probably wont see this thread. Having your name be marred or having negative undertones associated with it is a real drag.
Anyhoo, credits should always be given where due to the original artist. This kind of shit happens way too often in our field..
Konstruct> I do see what you mean,
My attempts at explaining the situation to sam fell on ,...well, .lets just say less than hospitable ears.
This one is less impressive since the models are pretty much identical, but for things like that bobo's texture thief guy from several months ago, that kinda detective work is amazing
Anyway I agree with konstruct, at first look you get a negative impression on both the artists names. Maybe edit the original post/title to clarify now that the "truth" is out (well technically only 1 side of the truth is out, but it seems pretty convincing to me - this is where Sam should step in to redeem himself
as an example- http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/1352739/img/imperator/imperator_screenshot04.jpg
Its not that you shouldnt put polish on someone elses texture or model, espeacially if your directed to by your lead or art director, but you cant take full credit for that work, ..you should, in my opinion, cite, or at least foot note that it was a collaboration between artists. Just my 2 cents.
sure, I'm not arguing against polish work I just wouldn't consider putting it in my portfolio because overall I only did about 10% of the work (in my opinion).
.
.
Curious: How would you handle it when someone else did the polish work on what was otherwise your stuff? I've got a few pieces in Borderlands that another artist did some texture polish work on and I am trying to figure out how to present it in my 'folio