Modeling Folds/Wrinkles...

Havok

So I am just wondering how you guys would go about modeling high poly folds for clothing and such. I haven't attempted it but may try in the next few days and I just want to gather some knowledge before I do. I'm not really looking for any info about Zbrush or Mudbox and mainly want to stick to subd modeling. I am talking mainly about pants with a lot of folds like this: http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/3856/dbz16rb3.jpg - DBZ FTW.

I'm not doing a DBZ character model or anything but the pants I will be doing are similar. Any tips you can give me would be awesome. I wan't to see how I can handle high poly characters without sculpting as I gots no money for an app and want to try something a bit different from the norm. Thanks guys.

Bal

Why aren't you considering zbrush or mudbox though? Sculpting is obviously the easiest and fastest way to get this kind of effect, and I can't really imagine any reason not to do it that way.

Havok

It's not that I am not considering it but more that I wan't to try something a bit different. Also I like the "environment" of Max more than any sculpting tool and want to see how folds would turn out. I know people have done it so sculpting isn't the only way. Example:


Taken from this tutorial:http://www.3dtotal.com/team/Tutorials/making_spawn/spawn_01.php

Plus Max has its own set of sculpting tools that while basic, are usable.

Mark Dygert

Havok wrote: »

I gots no money for an app and want to try something a bit different from the norm. Thanks guys.

I gotted no tips if yous got no appz.

Actually, off the top of my head without knowing what app you're using I would say chamfer an edge and manipulate the added edges. Of course there are more complex ways to get better results it but they are app specific.

3-4k for a modeling app, but doesn't have 595 for a sculpting app. Someones walking a morally ambiguous line.

Eric Chadwick

James Ku is a guy I used to work with, he modelled folds like this. It's a pain in the ass process though, as he readily admitted.

He has some wireframes on his site.
http://www.3dartisan.net/~kuman/lava/magma2.jpg

Havok

Vig wrote: »

300-400 for a modeling app, but doesn't have 595 for a sculpting app. Someones a student.

Fixed

Using Max so I guess that would work. Should I just model the shape of the pants with the edge flow following the direction the folds will go and then chamfer and such?

EDIT: Thanks Eric. After looking at that there has to be a cleaner way, right? Maybe not...

silversteez

if i had to sub-d model folds/cloth i still think i'd sculpt first, then re-topo over it. the most challenging aspect of making folds, for me, is figuring out a nice flow/pattern--i will generally make adjustments as i sculpt and sort-of figure it out as i go. sub-d modeling doesn't really afford you the same freedom in this regard, but if you have good reference or just know exactly what you want to do with your folds then i suppose it might not be too painful.

Havok

That is understandable but for some reason I just wanna do it with subd and get fast with it, mostly to be a bit different from everyone else. I am going to grab a ton of reference before I attempt it to avoid potential mistakes. Once I try it out later tonight I will see if I like it or not. If not I will try sculpting but if I do like it, well, we'll see .

Mongrelman

Did this myself awhile ago, my advice is focus on a small part a time. Troughs and peaks is mainly what it comes down to. Soft selection to make adjustments to proportion.

But sculpting is really the way to go as it is so much faster and allows for easy adjustments or large changes.

Couple of pics that might help give an idea. And point out why you focus on small parts at a time hehe.

Frump

Before I learned any sculpting apps, I tried this approach a few times. I would suggest just making cuts into the mesh and pulling out the forms, then checking with sub-d. It will get messy but hopefully be quick. Figure out the forms first and then you can get a nice topology later. I would also suggest you stick to fabrics with big creases, instead of modeling tons of little wrinkles like in the images posted by Mongrelman, just for the sake of simplicity.

Havok

Mongrelman - Wow. First off, awesome job on that. When you say focus on one small part at a time, how small is small? Like a forearm, bicep, etc. or smaller? Also, did you make a lowish poly base and then start cutting the shit out of it? Mine won't be that detailed but would be nice to know your process .

Frump - Yea, simplicity will definitely make this a bit easier and the materials I have to do are large fabrics so I think I'm ggod .

Thanks guys, I was hoping for more than "WHY YOU DONT SCULP???" So I guess I got what I was hoping for .

MoP

Actually on my latest model I ended up sub-d modelling the cloth folds instead of sculpting. I found that to get nice smooth well-defined folds in a standard base-mesh, you need to subdivide ridiculous amounts just in order to have enough polys to work with (assuming you're starting with a regular quad mesh, which is usually best for sculpting).

After a few attempts at sculpting and not getting the results I wanted, I just did it in Max, mainly with the Cut and Connect tools. Didn't take long, I didn't care about the "clean topology" of the mesh, and the end result looked good, so it's all gravy.

After that I think it'd still be nice to take it into ZBrush for "fine detailing", the sort of small folds that are faster to do with quick flicks of a brush stroke instead of laborious mesh cutting, but to get the main shapes of large folds was faster than I expected in sub-d.

Havok

Thanks for posting, MoP. Yea, I noticed it looked like you did most of it in Max. Did you do the actual details on the body mesh in Max, too? Not the scales obviously but anatomy wise. I ask because I am trying to do the body for my model and I'm having a hard time getting a good start on it . I am trying to do the entire high poly for this project in Max. Any tips for the body?

Mongrelman

Cheers.

I'd say the elbow is a good example: I started by modelling the elbow pad since it was a specific shape and needed to be more precise, then extruded some edges out to the seam surrounding the whole elbow. Then from there extruded out the shape of that whole seam (down to near the hand, around and above the elbow). That gave an edgeloop that could be easily selected. So I'd just split that loops, push it in, see how it looked in subd, ended up beveling it. So it was really just a case of working on that patch of the arm, and then working out from there, I find it easier for subd detailing to work that way than start with a rough shape and cut detail into it (that's just my preference, other people prefer doing the opposite).
As a whole it looks much more complicated than it really is if you are just working on a manageable area

Generally a crease is just 3 loops of edges: 2 pushed 'into' the mesh and the middle one pulled 'out'. So just having that 'V' shape and extruding it along the path of the crease does most of the work, then you work on connecting to other creases/seams. And a seam is generally just a clean edgeloop that you can then split and push in.

This was for a demoreel and I was being very anal about keeping it quads, but if you're just doing it to bake down to a lowpoly mesh then do as MoP said and save yourself some time and bother and don't fuss about topology/quads as long as the model looks good.

Havok

Thanks for that dude. I have been thinking how many edges should a fold contain, and assumed three but wasn't sure. Thanks for all of this info, hopefully I can put it to good use .

Mongrelman

It really depends on the fold, For small ones 3 is usually ok, but for larger, rounder ones you will probably need a couple of pulled out edges in the middle to give a rounder crease, and with some of those, have the edges come together at the end so the crease tapers into a smaller, sharper fold.

Havok

Yea, I know most of that from practicing sub-d a lot recently but thanks for it anyways!