Shader FX One light support? (And other whines)
polycounter lvl 18
Im trying out Shader FX mostl, to just see the painting of diffuse and spec with normal maps from Photoshop. The default dx or phong render many times "forgets" to update the textures. That and the DX shader of standard material 90% of the time renders the object as unspecular phong, no matter my settings (this is Max 9).
I think this may be some compatibility with ATI drivers, but ehh..
So anyways I'm tying shader fx, following the tut (would be quicker for me if they just gave a write up versus these videos). Try a default shader and the image turns black. I figure out I have to have a light in scene versus relying on max (this wasn't mentioned in vid) default viewport light. Ok.. But It only seems to see one light. Whatever the first light I put in the scene is what it sees. It ignores the rest. Is this standard? I would rather have it use the default lights so I can turn around the object in scene without having to move the light or create a camera and attach the light to it.
Also, to be honest. I hate having to make an actionscript in PS to see whatever Im working on in tga or whatever. Wish more of these tools would internally convert ps images to just a flat map. Loved the dx shader of standard materials for that.. if it worked right. ;/
So failing Shader fx, is there at least a standalone program that will work with PS files? Marmoset doesnt. I think xnormal in fact may, but I cant figure out how to not have its preview non full screen since I want a small window showing the object while I work in PS.
I think this may be some compatibility with ATI drivers, but ehh..
So anyways I'm tying shader fx, following the tut (would be quicker for me if they just gave a write up versus these videos). Try a default shader and the image turns black. I figure out I have to have a light in scene versus relying on max (this wasn't mentioned in vid) default viewport light. Ok.. But It only seems to see one light. Whatever the first light I put in the scene is what it sees. It ignores the rest. Is this standard? I would rather have it use the default lights so I can turn around the object in scene without having to move the light or create a camera and attach the light to it.
Also, to be honest. I hate having to make an actionscript in PS to see whatever Im working on in tga or whatever. Wish more of these tools would internally convert ps images to just a flat map. Loved the dx shader of standard materials for that.. if it worked right. ;/
So failing Shader fx, is there at least a standalone program that will work with PS files? Marmoset doesnt. I think xnormal in fact may, but I cant figure out how to not have its preview non full screen since I want a small window showing the object while I work in PS.
Replies
The CGFX shaders for maya also only allow one light. It's a bummer
(...that you don`t like ps-actions is another story though
Being one of the few that has made it through the learning process and is comfortable with PuppetShop I really like it, but holy hell it could have been a lot easier.
It's like all the knowledge you need is locked in a glass house and someone did a piss poor job of papering over the windows. you spend a lot of energy dashing from crack to crack peaking in and hoping that what you see is what you need.
Video maybe all web 2.0 and cool but seriously it has its place just like all tools.
err yea, light manager. Kudos to the guy that sat through 18 hours of footage to find that.
Oh please... I watched maybe 2-3 video's on shaderFX to find out about some really specific videos (and they were aptly titled after these features). I mostly just learned by myself, by studying other people's shaders and by understanding the logic behind building shaders. The whole idea behind ShaderFX is that it's not about difficult to learn tools/methods (such as writing HLSL) but a straightforward, transparent process that hampers the artist as little as possible.
And the lightmanager: I found out about that the first time I opened the new version. Can't say I think it's an better feature than just changing the number of lights however.
Puppetshop might be different than SFX in terms of documentation, but I don't like reading this sort of generalisation.
PuppetShop is quite different. There are menus hidden inside of menus that are only available if specific pieces of the rig are selected, where is the clip editor again? How about the FK/IK blending options?
How about the strange icons, a shopping cart to add a layer? Am I going to be charged to add a layer? Hammer to delete? Don't hammers build things?
The drop down menus that don't let you know when it is down or up, make looking for stuff really FUN...
There is the one in Pose, that contains nothing, that's always a hoot to click on when looking for a feature.
I remember seeing a way to do XYZ but that info is buried at 2:35 in the 4th video of the 8th series, or was that 8:56 of the 3rd video... only one way to find out. Loading.... loading... watching... buffering... watching... nope not that one. Humm if only I could press F1, search for XYZ and have the info in 15 sec.
Videos can be extremely helpful for somethings. Documenting complex programs like PuppetShop ONLY with video, probably isn't a great formula to success. I've been through the process, I really like the plug-in it would have been infinitely faster to have searchable documentation.
It would be nice if ShaderFX was documented differently but its not critical like it is for PuppetShop.
I just wanted a way to see my models with basic shaders while working in ps. I figured out how to get xnormal to display in a window, but you loose mouse control once you exit, and have to alt-enter to get back in. It also was displaying the photoshop files.. weird. I dont know how to describe, and this isnt the thread to show issues on it. Marmoset looked beautiful, but again have to do actions, annnd I didnt see a way to set which direction the normal map worked. (again another thread).
Right now Im stuck in Max using opengl to work on diffuses. At least that updates. Side point, why cant Autodesk support open gl shaders as well? I mean there are other platform development beyond directx and xbox.
Sorry about the frustration over documentation. I think it comes down to the fact that for the guys making the software (me and Kees), making videos is way more fun than writing documents. :0)
For ShaderFX, we do have fairly extensive written document that can be accessed from the Help menu. Give it a try! It has descriptions, explanations, and examples.
Up to this point, Kees and I have been working under the assumption that most artists totally ignore the written documentation. I think the fact that many of you didn't know it existed is a good indication that that is at least partially true. For that reason, we've allowed it to get a little out of date so all of the newer features - like the light manager - are described in the videos instead of the help.
However, it seems like written documentation is important to some of you - so I've decided to put in some effort and update it. Please take a look at what is there currently and give me some feedback on what needs to be improved. I'd like to make this a more valuable tool.
i never looked into the documentation tho.
Hi Ben, I did in fact see that, but I saw "quick start tutorial" and thought it was going to be a write up, so I could just speed read to the part I was having trouble with. Instead, it linked to the video. Can you just make a windows help file setup? Instead of a html document? So we can search keywords and such? I use text help more often than video. Except when learning something from ground 0, like zbrush. There I used videos to get me started.
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Lauren, I will try out your shader later on when I need to paint again. Will let you know results. PS support is A+ in my book. As long as I can change the direction of normal maps (dont use MAx (nor Maya) default, then golden!
Welcome to the wonderful world of TGEA.. :P
Yes, red is inverted.
-x, -y, +z.
I wouldn't take my rant about the PuppetShop documentation and translate it directly to ShaderFX. They are two separate animals and ShaderFX gets by pretty well with just the first few videos. Of course knowing the help file is not a direct link to the videos, is great! I'll hit it up the next time I'm stuck. Thanks!
Learning PuppetShop was a bit frustrating, mostly because I had no real quick way to get to the info I had already seen. Maybe a detailed index for the movies? Reference most of the key features and key things people would search for and give a time range? That would make getting to the info a lot easier.
That sounds incredibly boring but would be really helpful and easier than documenting everything last little thing.