Are you in the game industry? Are you in China? Please halp me =)
polycounter lvl 10
Long story short, I have a potential job offer to work as a 3D artist in Beijing, China. Even if it doesn't go through, I would still like to know a few things... And I know of a few of ya that are in the area and hopefully would be able to help me.
A little background about me, for reference: I finished college just over half a year ago and only have a few months of professional experience in the game industry as a technical artist. In short, the studio closed and I've been somewhat relying on freelance, but those are few and far between.
I have been asked what salary I expect by the Chinese studio in question, and I really have no idea what to say. As far as I know, the US has the highest salaries, even after exchange rates and what-not... but I am pretty new to the whole global economics thing, hell, I'm new to the game industry altogether too. So my knowledge is very limited. If you have any insight on this matter, it would be greatly appreciated.
Also, if offered a job, is it customary for the company in question to assist in relocation and all that? Especially if it's for someone with only a few months of professional experience like me?
With living logistics aside, my main concern is whether or not it would be worth it for someone like me to go overseas if the money I end up saving won't be much at all when I return to the States. On the other hand, it's still difficult to find an entry-level job as a game artist in the US too, as far as I've experienced. And I always hear that experience is experience, no matter where.
Any insight or advice would be greatly appreciated as always :poly121:
A little background about me, for reference: I finished college just over half a year ago and only have a few months of professional experience in the game industry as a technical artist. In short, the studio closed and I've been somewhat relying on freelance, but those are few and far between.
I have been asked what salary I expect by the Chinese studio in question, and I really have no idea what to say. As far as I know, the US has the highest salaries, even after exchange rates and what-not... but I am pretty new to the whole global economics thing, hell, I'm new to the game industry altogether too. So my knowledge is very limited. If you have any insight on this matter, it would be greatly appreciated.
Also, if offered a job, is it customary for the company in question to assist in relocation and all that? Especially if it's for someone with only a few months of professional experience like me?
With living logistics aside, my main concern is whether or not it would be worth it for someone like me to go overseas if the money I end up saving won't be much at all when I return to the States. On the other hand, it's still difficult to find an entry-level job as a game artist in the US too, as far as I've experienced. And I always hear that experience is experience, no matter where.
Any insight or advice would be greatly appreciated as always :poly121:
Replies
It's normal for companies to pay relocation. The amount varies depending on what position it is and where you're moving from and to. So there's really no set amount.
Just make sure ya dont get burnt man. There's too many douchbags trying to take advantage of artists out there.
But regardless, good luck man!
Just keep $1500 in a bank account in the US that has no monthly fee's, give the card to a trusted relative. And give that relative the address of the embassy closest to you. When you need emergency funds it will be there. A one way ticket from China is about $900~$1100 in season and $600~$700 out of season. Keep your relatives in the loop on how to contact you.
And try not to get grifted. Go to the consulate general's page for that country to see any warnings/advisories. Don't be afraid to take the chance. Not many Americans have a chance to live/ go outside the country.
Yeah, I do realize that moving across the Pacific is indeed a pretty huge deal. I tend to always have contingency plans as a rule of life, so if something happens or I decide that I don't like living there, I definitely would make the proper arrangements beforehand in the event I want to "bail out of the choppa".
Generally, I'm always a bit lost when employers ask me about my expected salary before any interviews have taken place, because I feel that I'm really not in the position to be negotiating salaries at this point in my career. I did some research about the cost of living in Beijing, and it was pretty helpful. But I don't feel that I should give them any figures at this point. Would it be appropriate if I responded by asking how much they're willing to pay, followed by questions on relocation, or any other questions that may be important?
Thanks again.
-Buddikaman
those are precious words you speak. -_-
anyway, salarys are probably not very good if you decide to leave the country (which I assume you eventually will), and that's one of the reasons why so many companys have studios in china, because its cheaper. dont ask me how cheaper though, I don't know any specifics.
I would say go for it, but only if you really want to work in the games industry and reaaaally can't find a job anywhere else. Really.
Someone asked already, but i'll re-ask it just in case: Do you speak chinese and are you familiar with chinese culture?
Your resume says you're American born and bred, and if you haven't lived overseas before I would be careful about making such a commitment. My GF's family runs a non-profit and they send a lot of Americans to work all over the world. Unfortunately most of them only manage to get through their assignment by drinking heavily. I have not met anyone tell me they loved it and can't wait to go back.
It is interesting in some ways, but in other ways you are very alienated, you can't move around as freely as you like, you don't understand the social rules and just generally is hard to get along. Adventuring is really over rated, and there will always be a huge wall between you and your Chinese co-workers. Don't confuse going for a vacation somewhere, with living and working there. There is a HUGE difference.
If you're ok with all that, then I would also be suspicious of any company willing to pay for relocation of an entry level worker. I could understand it for senior people with lots of experience, but in your case, frankly they could get equal or better talent in china. There's no shortage of chinese or indian cg artists, who would gladly charge a third of what you will charge. Why are they eager to hire you if there is nothing special about you?
The whole thing seems suspicious to me. I would just tough it out here in the states. Find a way to get some extra cash and keep working on your portfolio until you can land some decent gigs?
I really wouldn't travel to a place where you will be socially isolated and unable to easily converse with police and government officials if something goes awry.
Ask yourself why this Chinese company wants an American who can't find work in the US to come work for them. Is there a good reason?
In animation it wasn't uncommon for outsourcing studios to hire experienced (or even semi experienced ) workers to use as leads and supervisors to try and shore up the local labor. If they are willing to pay your relocation for an entry level position, it means they are probably a startup with lots of money and no idea how to run things... do you know who this outsourcing studio has worked with/for in the past?
This isn't a stab at anything racial, I'm chinese myself... but Chinese culture tends to not ever want to pay top dollar or pay anything more than they don't need to in order to get the job done, in fact they'd find creative ways to pay you less to get the job done.
Unless this is a well known established company, I'd say some extra legwork needs to be done to assure you have a job for the length of time they say, and that you have a way to get home, not to mention get home safely with money in the bank.
For all you know it could be an organ harvesting op... for real :P
The other point brought up is again, why are they hiring you? Do they really need someone to be an American voice on the other end of the phone? I mean in other words, they say they are hiring you as an artist, but maybe instead plan to use you more to help with programs with no Chinese characters, or to speak with the managers and PR people overseas for any projects they are insourcing.
Personally, I want to work in different countries to gain new experiences in other cultures. Working for the Chinese though.... I mean I know the heads have no control, but are you giving your OK to human abuses and lack of freedoms by working there? I'm also sure they especially keep close tabs on foreign workers to keep their mouths shut "politically".
... but yeah he could find out some more sure.
They could say something like, "oh we need you to send us some money so we can arrange for your work visa." Or they could just ask for a copy of your passport and SS# and then use that for identity theft.
Just make sure you know who you're dealing with before you send out any personal info. And yes if they ask for money for anything, it's an instant red flag. And also if they send you money in the form of a money order, or foreign check, that's also a big red flag.
The company in question seems legit, but I'm not worried about that at this point... I e-mailed the guy asking him what they were willing to pay along with some other questions. They said that they would be able to assist in settling me into an apartment and apply a "holiday visa" for me if it goes through. None of that matters though, because the figure he gave me is what killed the deal for me.
It was 3 in the morning and I thought I read it wrong, but nope. 2,000 to 3,000 RMB a month. That's roughly $400 USD if my calculations are correct. Umm, I was expecting an extra zero in there... I am so damn naive =(
Apparently, that is enough to survive in Beijing, but nowhere near enough to live comfortably. Regardless, that is unacceptable because I can make much more washing dishes here or mowing a lawn in San Francisco.
I'm still thinking of how I should respond, or if I should respond at all. Thankfully, I have a few other industry job leads in my area at the moment, so at least I can see how those go, and at the very least and worst case, I think I'm better off getting a job doing anything, and working on the portfolio as usual.
I doubt everyone in China is a scam artist but there are predators out there. Someone I know recently had issues in an eastern country - His employer broke numerous employment laws, violated his contract repeatedly. They didn't pay him for a significant portion of his time, didn't pay taxes, social services, healthcare, etc, despite being required by law to do so. When he decided to leave the country they threatened to report him as fired to immigration and report that he had been living there illegally and shut off his phone. He had to make his arrangements to leave at an internet cafe.
My faith in humanity says this is atypical but even if everyone means well there are a number of issues that arise from not knowing the language, not having easy access to social services and infrastructure (the person I was talking about was mugged and since he was a white the cops outright ignored him, aside from the employment issues).
If the OP is just trying to start his career, he's going to lack the money and resume to pick up and leave if things don't work out well. And without meaning to offend the OP - what do they really want with someone who has little to no experience in the industry? It makes sense to pay a western wage to a western employee acting as a lead or director, but the OP doesn't have the experience required for those positions.
What happens when this company goes belly-up in a couple of months and you don't have enough money to leave? Do you really feel that you'd be able to secure a job in China that would allow you to leave the country? Would working for this company help your resume or portfolio in any meaningful way?
I don't think you're going to get chopped up for parts and I hope you'd be able to spot a "job offer scam" but there are a number of factors to consider when you're moving to a country where you don't speak the language, where racism runs deep, and where your mobility will be significantly reduced or non-existent.
hah! are you talking about America?
If you speak the language I'd put that on my resume, I think that would be a gold star with more companies using Chinese outsourcing studios
Probably for the best then. Everything that everyone has posted are valid points. There just seemed to be too many questions and grey areas.
It's a shame that the salary didn't meet your needs as it would have been a great opportunity to spend some time in a different country, gain some experience and then move on when you feel its time to do so.
You are making the right choice by turning this down, because you don't want to be living on the bare minimum. Best of luck finding other work.
hi man.
my suggestion is " DO NOT "
most chinese game company focus on MMO game market and few on outsourcing .
some studio is cool,but most are tuly nightmare.
most company,which make big money on the mmo market,they don't have any AAA title.
and for junior artist they don't offer good salary.
even the live cost is very low, life will hard.
but
if you are young and want see the world and have some fun.
china is a good choice.
but let them help you relocate and pay your plane tickets.
GOOD LUCK.