3D Character artist VS Concept artist -.-
Hey guys, this is gonna be a lenghty post but I need to get it off my mind and it's really annoying me when I think about it :
So I basically was thinking that us 3D artists have to do a shit load of work.
Very breifly : Base mesh > zbrush > retopo > texture
Texturing is where I'm getting pretty puzzled by. My mate just got a kick ass Intuous tablet today. He's a 2D artist and that is what triggered the problem. Why do us 3D artists have to Model in Max or Maya. Detail in Mudbox or Zbrush.. AND texture in photoshop. Isn't texturing something in PS something a concept/ 2d artist would do?
I mean they pretty much, as far as I know, sit on Photoshop and doodle away while we have an extensive array of tools which we need just to create entities (Characters or creatures or even hard surface models such as guns)..
I personally have a variety of tools that I need use : Max, Xnormal, Zbrush, Topogun, 3D coat... and ofc, Photoshop. I'm not complaining by any means that it's alot of work but seriously each and every one of these ...sections involved in creating a "Current gen" model usually take time.
My question is : (Very bluntly) Why do we have to go thru all that while concept artists just....draw and paint? 3D art is very techy and is really based on industry standards that we follow. Again, very bluntly, shouldn't we get paid more? (Yes, that is correct, I'm the sixsteen year old from Sketchbook section so I'm not exactly experienced) I just think it's a loud of BS that we have to actually have to use the 2D artists only workflow tool, PS, to create diffuse maps and all that other techy stuff such as spec and normal maps.
So I basically was thinking that us 3D artists have to do a shit load of work.
Very breifly : Base mesh > zbrush > retopo > texture
Texturing is where I'm getting pretty puzzled by. My mate just got a kick ass Intuous tablet today. He's a 2D artist and that is what triggered the problem. Why do us 3D artists have to Model in Max or Maya. Detail in Mudbox or Zbrush.. AND texture in photoshop. Isn't texturing something in PS something a concept/ 2d artist would do?
I mean they pretty much, as far as I know, sit on Photoshop and doodle away while we have an extensive array of tools which we need just to create entities (Characters or creatures or even hard surface models such as guns)..
I personally have a variety of tools that I need use : Max, Xnormal, Zbrush, Topogun, 3D coat... and ofc, Photoshop. I'm not complaining by any means that it's alot of work but seriously each and every one of these ...sections involved in creating a "Current gen" model usually take time.
My question is : (Very bluntly) Why do we have to go thru all that while concept artists just....draw and paint? 3D art is very techy and is really based on industry standards that we follow. Again, very bluntly, shouldn't we get paid more? (Yes, that is correct, I'm the sixsteen year old from Sketchbook section so I'm not exactly experienced) I just think it's a loud of BS that we have to actually have to use the 2D artists only workflow tool, PS, to create diffuse maps and all that other techy stuff such as spec and normal maps.
This discussion has been closed.
Replies
if you're a production artist, your job is to produce assets. a concept artist doesn't have that job. having them produce assets is soooortta a different psychological "mode." concept artists are good idea people. production work is largely a filling out, fully realizing, detail thing.
IMO they're different disciplines for a reason.
who should get paid more? i think they should get paid the same.. unless of course one has more experience relative to his or her field.
some concept artists, you may have noticed, are FUCKING. GOOD. some of the guys i worked with at relic deserve more money than me. it's just the way it goes.
Yeah, I know that but does it seem to you we have a much greater workload? What do you think about the fact that we have to use their greatest tool (Photoshop) to create textures ONTOP of all the other stuff we need to do. Basically, I'm asking if we get a better salary. Sorry if this sounds really naieve and kidish but I'm really not sure.
Thanks for the reply.
and it seriously isn't as easy as you seem to assume it is... 'they just use photoshop' .. uh..
....................................,.-...................``~.,
.............................,.-...................................-.,
.........................,/...............................................:,
.....................,?......................................................,
.................../...........................................................,}
................./......................................................,:`^`..}
.............../...................................................,:........./
..............?.....__.........................................:`.........../
............./__.(.....~-,_..............................,:`........../
.........../(_....~,_........~,_....................,:`........_/
..........{.._$;_......=,_.......-,_.......,.-~-,},.~;/....}
...........((.....*~_.......=-._......;,,./`..../............../
...,,,___.`~,......~.,....................`.....}............../
............(....`=-,,.......`........................(......;_,,-
............/.`~,......`-...................................../
.............`~.*-,.....................................|,./.....,__
,,_..........}.>-._...................................|..............`=~-,
.....`=~-,__......`,.................................
...................`=~-,,.,...............................
................................`:,,...........................`..............__
.....................................`=-,...................,%`>--==``
........................................_..........._,-%.......`
...................................,
The thing I'm thinking is that we have to model and stuff but we have to texture aswell..which can be covered by a texture artist.
I guess concept art is not the same as texture art and the reason I think that is because there are industry standards for texturing but not so much for concept art.
Sarcasm aside. First of all I think you are missing the importance of a concept art in a production pipeline.
Secondly, who says concept artists don't texture? also who says you can't make your own concepts. If you answer that you lack the skill to, then I think you answered your own question.
They do the planing out of how things are going to look so 3d modelers don't have to, or at least have a good sense of what direction to take that particular piece in.
Sure if your good as a traditional artist, making concept art is faster then doing the whole process of making a model, but then again concept artists usually have to make tons of iterations of things before they even get accepted.
As far as I know most artists, concept, environment or character get paid in the same range. There isn't much of a difference, because they are all close to equal in importance.
You should try and strive to be a well rounded artist all the way from the foundations to the sculpting in zed brush, not assume you are worth more money because your job is tough.
Fine, timwiese. If they get paid the same why do we have to sit and do a billion times more work than them... and texture ASWELL.
That made no sense mate.
Skillsets don't purely equate to what applications you are proficient in. A good concept artist should have an excellent understanding of anatomy, proportion, composition, tone, colour, design, biology, architecture etc etc. You could very easily argue that the relative lack of 'technical knowledge' needed to be a concept artist is more than balanced out by all the other skills that are fundamental to doing the job well. Both positions have their difficulties, but the ability to constantly create new ideas and iterate on them as required can be very taxing.
Also, the idea that concept artists 'only use Photoshop' doesn't ring true; artists like Hawkprey are leading the way with their combination of 2d and 3d concepts and I see more and more previs work being done in Zbrush.
So yeah, speaking as someone who works in both disciplines, I think they deserve to get equal pay. Just because someone is getting to draw a crazy spaceship while you lay out your uvs doesn't mean they haven't earned their wage.
guess what, animators and programmers get paid more too! nanny-nanny-poo-poo
Your a 3D artist who gets paid more than a 2D artist?
What do you think about the texturing thing? It just seems that texturing can be covered by a concept artist yet we have to do that aswell because we need nice looking models from our own textures on our portfolios.
I was watching my mate ..simply doodle and paint on a tablet.. nice job.. seems pretty easy -.-
Oh, look, us 3D guys have to model > detail > retopo > and bake textures.
If that is the case, you may want to practice.
And also, concept artists are generally paid less I am fairly certain. It really depends on the studio and experience of either team of artists. Also there are studios where an artist will do the whole gambit; concept, model, sculpt, texture.
I personally would rather do the extra work, than try and be the "idea guy" for everything. Concept artists have a lot of weight on their shoulders since most the ideas have to come from them.
Personally I enjoy the painting phase MORE than the modeling phase.
2D artists have a skill set that not everyone can quickly grow in a few weeks. While noodling around in a 3D app seems highly technical at first, just about every one can be taught to use it.
Then you're really asking, do I have a chance of landing an artist position when I'm not an artist? The answer is yes, but its hard. The competition is pretty stiff and you're easily replaced by lots of other people in the same boat. Not really a recipe for big pay checks.
I think you're confusing artistic skill with knowledge of a particular 3D app. Technical knowledge doesn't trade on the open market like artistic skill.
So without having the artistic skill, you can find work. But you're easily replaced or possibly even automated by someone else.
I feel that your experience of what a professional concept or 3d art position actually entails must be fairly limited. Being able to create textures does not mean that you would automatically be a concept artist. Anyway, I'm sure you'll figure it out eventually.
that's a sneak peak behind the curtains
So your saying 2D artists can be JUST ARTISTS while we have to be a modeller and then you mean to say that the ARTIST part for us is texturing?
You might want to re-read the fact that I'm only sixteen and the fact I wrote above something like: I know texture artists aren't concept artists because they have to follow specific things..
Such as : Unwraps and map types. Which are sort of an industry standard thing.
It might take you weeks to complete your 3D character, while it would take a few days for a concept artist to produce a finished painting. But at the end of the day, you have some dude on a pedestal. In a fraction of the time, the concept artist has captured character, mood, layout through lighting, composition, environmental and character design.
During the time it takes you to work on your character (sans animation, might I add), a concept artist has come up with designs for props, characters, environments, vehicles, maybe even produced some promotional paintings or portraits used for the HUD.
Suddenly its not so hard to see why concept artists are as valued as 3D artists.
i've seen plenty of 3d artists kick ass without a tablet... like JFletcher who is on here.....he JUST now is getting a tablet.
practice and you'll find you may actually like it... what's wrong with getting in touch with your artistic side?
Dude... do you even think about your questions before you ask them?
Oh dear, I've played the ignorant kid who hasn't got a clue today haven't I? -.-
you always make me giggle :thumbup:
So your saying 3D modelling isn't art and texturing is? You can't say that you didn't say that because you said "practice and you'll find you may actually like it... what's wrong with getting in touch with your artistic side?"
HOW IS 3D NOT ART? Your saying 2D art is the ART side...what the?
*sagely nods*
that's cuz you're ticklish down there
hahahahahahahahaha... i didn't say that 3d art is not art... you just kept ranting on and on about how "technical" it is and that 2d is "painting", which would lead me to believe that you see 3d as not art and 2d as art... you do the math
i can give you a shovel if you would like, but you seem to be doing just fine.
This gives them a clear advantage and broader skill set. Making them more valuable.
They get paid to do 2D not because they can't do 3D, but because it takes dedication and a lot of time to do what they do. Often the get to choose between 2D and 3D and many mix it up as they see fit.
Someone who is heavily reliant on knowledge of how a 3D app works does not have the luxury of crossing back and forth. Their 3D ART WORK suffers as a result.
sry to be mean, but that is just one of the most ignorant thing i heard from any artist.
if u think concept artists have it easy and they still get paid the same then what is stopping you from not doing the same ?
it's all to do with how much you have to leave your seat to ask stuff
It takes time and dedication for us to do what we do too. 3D is a skill that takes time to master and is incredibly fast paced in the way we make the stuff. I know you know that.
So you're telling me that...if you can color in the UV's you can make concept art? It doesn't work that way homie. You don't NEED to buy a tablet...it would be easier on you if you did...I mean...you still would need a tablet to do 3d things..like uhh...gee I dunno...ZBRUSH? Try using a mouse for that shit, you won't get nowhere.
It really just sounds like you're angry cuz you can't afford a wacom tablet.
In the end you're going to have to learn how to paint textures...in Photoshop...with the use of a tablet...unless you want to sit there and manualy lower or raise your brush size and opacity.
I lol'd out loud at your post. Learn to read. I said when you make diffuse and such it IS NOT the same as concept art. No, I'm not gonna qoute it. Look for it yourself.