I like art tests since it gives me a pretty good idea of what the company is like. If I like the test the odds are I'll enjoy working for the company. I had an art test once which I felt the timing was off with my work schedule. I just felt after working on it for a few days that there was going to be a huge problem finishing it. It was a learning experience though. At the time I was working overnights so working on the test after I got out of work was impossible for me. I would get home and pass out. They pretty much wanted what seemed almost a full week of work, but I think if I had better skills at the time or a better day job, i would finished it easily. I did explain my problem to hr but they sort of gave me the cold shoulder at the end, I think they just got tired, since there are other people out there after all and they ran out of patience. What bugged me the most was the rejection letter, yes I got one. It stated I didn't have the skills to do a senior artist position, although they had approached me for a junior level position in the first place so I was expecting to do an art test for that position as well. I was annoyed., but whatever, had i been better I would of landed an interview with the team. That's all there is to it.
killingpeople has the right idea. When I own my own studio I'm going to have a series of feats of strength that all applicants must pass before they are allowed into the inner sanctum of the studio.
In response to MoP's earlier question, Blitz do an inhouse art-test, though I'm not sure if that is always the case. When I did it they put me up in a B&B for a couple of nights and I did my art test there over two working days, so they could see what I was like and I could see what the place was like. I actually liked this idea as it helped both sides get a better feel of each other (could probably have phrased that less perversely).
However I wasn't employed at the time and lived nearby, I don't know what would happen with someone in a job, maybe it's just done for people who are newly coming into the industry.
We are all INCREDIBLY blessed to be able to do what we do and make money at it. Do you guys realize that? I've been doing this for a few years now and I STILL feel fortunate to do what I do for a living. I see people working at Wal-Mart and Gas Stations and any other number of (in my opinion at least) shitty jobs and I say, "Damn am I glad that I'm not there still, and man is all the hard work worth it to do something I love AND not have to be a starving artist."
well..
I do feel happy that i got the job i do and that i dont have to flip burgers. On the other hand I think that its my hard, hard work that have gotten me to where i am now. Sure we should all feel happy beeing able to work with what most of us also considers a hobby and/or a passion but i also feel that my knowledge and my skills are something that employers should value and beeing fortunate about having.
Just because i work with something i love i shouldnt have to get down on my knees, getting my nose all browny to justify it.
Sure we should all feel happy beeing able to work with what most of us also considers a hobby and/or a passion but i also feel that my knowledge and my skills are something that employers should value and beeing fortunate about having.
Em, I doubt the people at Wallmart worked hard at gaining the necessary skills for years and years. I've certainly been quite pissed off when I did an art test and didn't hear back from the company.
Now I'm all for art tests for everyone cause i see more and more people who got into this industry like 8 years ago SIMPLY by knowing Max a little bit, and have continued to not further their own education by learning other packages ie Zbrush, and still need to be shown (by me, an entry level artist) how to render our normals). It completly blows my mind. Its total BS but since they have like 4 titles under their belt they shouldn't be tested. F that
Hopefully its the strength of the portfolio not the length of employment that determines future employment. I think too much importance is put on shipped titles and all that really tells you is that they are more or less production tested, not a whole lot more then that tho I'm afraid.
Also if its not part of the companies pipeline and they have zero interest in using it, why should they be forced to take time outside of work to learn something that doesn't apply?
On that same vein of thinking I guess everyone should be issued rigging, animation and fluid dynamics tests? Conceivably at some point in their career they might come in contact with some of those areas so they should be tossed out on their ass if they haven't mastered them yet, right?
I completely agree that it is in their best interest to continue learning and growing on their own, if they choose to do it.
At Blitz they gave me an art test which went well. They have art tests for animators also as they gave me the wrong max file which was for an animation test:)
I was a bit of a noob back then and am not sure if they give tests to everyone, ie those with more experience.
Weirdest test is at codemasters, I was there half a day locked in a room, doing doing some weird ass iq test stuff and doing concept art which I suck at.
I'm not saying you don't have a right to be pissed about not hearing back after working your arse off on an art test, or not getting the job. I get pissed too. I'm also not saying that we shouldn't be appreciated and valued for all of our hard work, part of what makes us so valuable is that some schmo off the street can't do what we do or be trained quickly to do it. And yeah, people that work at Wal-Mart probably aren't generally working very hard to be doing better.
I guess just reading all of the negativity in here...my general point is that it could always be worse. Either way, I lub you all. :P
Maybe the bigger tests are really a test of time management? They aren't really about being finished to completion, but seeing how someone works and manages their time.
You can tell the difference between a person who spent 20 hours making 1 really detailed room vs a guy who spent 10 hours blocking out the whole building, and the next ten hours spent adding in the details evenly throughout the level.
At the end of the 20 hours the first guy doesn't have anything useful, but the second guy has a complete vertical slice.
Anyone can have nice portfolio pieces if they spend 6 months on each of them.
At the end of the they, it's the employer who has the money. And they chose who they want to pay on their terms.
It's up to you to like their rules or not. And that basically includes every second job you find anywhere.
It's still their investment.
Sounds like its time to unionize and shift the balance of power.
Sadly that will never happen as long as there are people willing to live in a studio apt with 18 other smelly guys, working for wal-mart wages. The industry will have plenty of people to abuse. So hopefully the more benevolent employers find a way to keep their doors open and shelter as many of us as they can.
When I own my own studio I'm going to have a series of feats of strength that all applicants must pass before they are allowed into the inner sanctum of the studio.
I double that LOL and raise it that when I run a studio, every applicant is going to have to beat me at an arm wrestle. Left armed, BEST TWO OUT OF THREE
On the subject of art tests;
I wasn't too bothered, only did one in the end anyway (SD.) The only thing that bothered me was the length of time for that particular art test, which was a week, but at the same time, as I was looking for work, if I hadn't done that art test during that week, I'd have been doing some other game art towards the portfolio. So not really wasted time, I don't think it can even become wasted time if you create something good during portfolio time.
But as for shorter art tests, without having ever done any, I can say they wouldn't really bother me (though in reality who knows??) A day or two is no worries.
God help us all if people actually start taking what I post, seriously...
There's no point in forming a union, not with a bunch of lazy, apathetic, assholes stuck in their hoverounds. But if there was such a thing, I would sign up for the free beer and whiskey.
Art tests are tricky... I mean when you are given an art test - or when you hand one out what are the criteria for judging the test?
I only give out tests when we have an applicant with a lot of potential, that doesn't necessarily display work that ticks all the boxes for the competency's and skills I am looking for.
I mean a portfolio full of naked guys and heads is great.. but what about sculpting realistic cloth or creating a great photo referenced texture.
Some times an applicant is lacking that fundamental element and thats when I think its a good idea to give them a test. I will always ask for more samples of that particular discipline if they have them... however most people dont, so a test is the most suitable thing.
What surprises me is that no one ever asks what we are looking to see from the tests... (character ones at least) An employer is definitely looking for particular things.. I think if the testee and the tester communicate better there will generally be more success all round.
I mean if you knew your lighting and rendering skills where fundamental to determine the success of your test you'd spend plenty of time doing them well right?
What surprises me is that no one ever asks what we are looking to see from the tests... (character ones at least) An employer is definitely looking for particular things.. I think if the testee and the tester communicate better there will generally be more success all round.
I mean if you knew your lighting and rendering skills where fundamental to determine the success of your test you'd spend plenty of time doing them well right?
Fear, people don't ask because they don't want to appear inadequate. I think clarification is great, it shows that people just won't go in guns blazing and do it wrong based on a hunch. I really like people who get all the facts, chart their course and do it right.
It also depends on who you're dealing with. Someone in HR might not bother getting the answers and might think you're sassy for asking questions.
Really either way, I think its a good idea, even if it nets you nothing. At the bare min, it will help by letting them know where their instructions cause confusion.
That's a good point, spacemonkey...but from my personal experiences the person that typically gives me a test is either a recruiter or HR. Asking them what exactly they're looking for might get you a pretty vague answer.
There have been a couple of times where I was in direct contact with the character lead, art director,etc....so it's definitely good advice. I have been tempted to ask those types of questions but kinda hold back in fear that I'll come across the wrong way.
i’ve read through some of these posts and i completely agree with a lot of you on both sides but i’m all for the tests, at the right company. it’s true, maybe you spent 6-months working on your most amazing model (which can happen if you are always busy and/or lose inspiration to work on it or whatever), but either way that time frame does them no good. they want something in the now, they want to see if you can finish the project they give you by a certain deadline. maybe it’s on the same standard of what the employees can do, or maybe they want to see if it scares you away or if you’re willing to fight for the position, maybe it’s both or none, maybe they want to see what you can bring to their studio or maybe just maybe they are feeling a bit cocky and decided that they don’t like you and you have a week to model the titanic. have fun! but it all really depends on us. i’m willing to prove myself, i know it’ll challenge me, but i also know i’ll learn so much more from it which is a reward of its own.
i’m assuming they do art tests for those that are just coming into the industry, which is a lot of us, so some of us would get mistreated, i’m sure there are studios out there that don’t call you back and leave you hanging and treat you like crap, but it could just be that one person who you’re dealing with and it’s hard to swallow your pride sometime, but if it’s really worth it, suck it up and once you’re in maybe things will change and it will be worth it.
i don’t think studios do it to torture us, they get a lottttt of portfolios from everyone, people who are actually getting an education about the industry and working their asses off and then there are those who say work at gamestop (i have friends like this) or just play games and never opened a single modeling/animating and whatnot program ever and expect to get a job there as their lead concept artist/modeler/animator. the studio just wants to see if you can do it, maybe there are a few people up for the job and all of us get the project, one of us drops out, and just two left, one finished faster and it looks mediocre and the other finished just in time and it looks mind-blowing awesome, i’m sure they’d hire the person who one: didn’t drop out and two: who did it in the time limit and put the effort into making it amazing. if the guy who finished early did as good of a job or better than the other guy, i’m sure he’d be hired but i think studios are looking for people who are willing to go the extra mile, willing to lose maybe the 50 hours that it takes them to complete the test just to gain everything in return. i have no problem being one of those people, i’m willing to lose the sleep and my social life for the job that i really want. but i’m competitive like a lot of you, so i’d defiantly take it on.
Some art tests are a huge waste of time, totally. Applicants usually sends links with their portfolio, reels, etc., and if the works are really good, there's no reason to ask for a test if he don't show folds on a dress. If someone shows QUALITY in an area, he will give quality in the other areas without no doubt, that's simple and evident because talent is talent (you got it or you don't got it). Request someone with talent a test because he shows 3 characters and not a car, prop, etc., is undervalue, underestimate his work.
I know too many cases of stupids saying about friends (yeah, they are stupids): "yes, he's very good doing characters with zbrush, but he don't know how to do environments and props". That happens a lot in spain, and i sadly feel an attitude of envy.
There are too many good companies out there, so don't try to work in a team where you feel yourself underestimated in the first moment.
That said, art tests are good as a filter if a current portfolio is not enough to show skills or if they are looking for an special style of work, or to test your speed...
For the majority of cases, I think is better to work in personal works for our portfolio than wasting time in a test we could not pass. Our portfolio should be the key to open the doors.
If someone shows QUALITY in an area, he will give quality in the other areas without no doubt, that's simple and evident because talent is talent (you got it or you don't got it). Request someone with talent a test because he shows 3 characters and not a car, prop, etc., is undervalue, underestimate his work.
i dont know, i dont believe the whole youve either have talent or you dont i think its more of passion, you either have the passion to learn and practice or you dont care and you wont.
either way just because you can model the anatomy of a human or creature or whatnot, doesnt mean you can model the clothes, im still in school and i see classmates who do wonderful work with the body but when it comes to clothes and little assets and whatnot they have issues, it doesnt mean they cant learn how to do it, they just dont know. sometimes people hide their flaws, like back in the day when i was younger i hid hands when i drew people because i wasnt as good at drawing them. it could be the same thing with websites that the employers are looking at and if i was looking at someone who had naked models and no proof of being able to do clothes i would defiantly ask if they have any that arent posted or have them do an art test that requires clothes.
and since there are different type of artists in the industry, one might be only to only do models well while another could do environments. i myself am a lot better at character modeling than say vehicles. so i wouldnt find it insulting if they asked for something that wasnt shown on my site/blog/demo reel.
If someone shows QUALITY in an area, he will give quality in the other areas without no doubt, that's simple and evident because talent is talent (you got it or you don't got it).
dude, you're wrong.
you can't turn a fun-loving game artist into a hard-realism sim artist over night.
some people simply aren't made for a certain type of art, and thats why you need art tests to figure it out.
'thats just 2 completely different modes of thought.
whereas the game artist goes for looks and feel, the sim artist goes for accuracy and fidelity.
game artists thinks accuracy and fidelity is boring and unneccesary, while sim artists thinks looks and feel are childish and simplistic.
Wrong? not sure, that's my point of view, 3d is 3d... and of course you can't turn a rookie into a hard-realism artist over night. that's not what i mean.
If someone is a great character artist, and has talent for modelling, he will model all very well, without no doubt. That's something i have 100% checked. You can have all the passion from the world, but if your are not enough good, the passion will evaporate as hot water. I know too many people who started with a junior position, and at the end... they ended out of the industry because they were not so passionate, enthusiast.
I have seen a lot, and one are specialists doing different tasks of what they are customed to do. And their work was great!, ehem.
There are also generalists doing allmost all with great quality.
Almost all in this life can be learned, and if someone lacks of modelling clothing skills, is just to look at references and STUDY. The same is for anatomy and too many things, you know. To say others can't do anything because they like to do different things, when quality is demonstrated, is arrogant, and to underestimate their skills. Nobody likes to be underestimated.
All the great artists i know do very well all they are asked to do. Too many started as modellers, and are working as animators now... ¬¬, the same as some character artists working as environment artist because there weren't positions for their specialities.
For all these reasons, sometimes there's no need to ask for an art test when a portfolio is great. That's a waste of time, and i'm sure you understand it. At least is my opinion, and what i think, you may be agree or not.
Sorry for the bump, but I didn't deem this appropriate for a new thread.
I was at a game developers conference recently in which Steve Derrick, Ryan Oddey (Assitant Quality Insurance Lead for BioShock, Major recruiter for 2K Boston and works along side HR Manage Stephanie Day) and Stone Perales were there giving a session on tips and tricks on getting into the industry.
There was a little time for Q&A, and I asked them: "If I am asked to take a long art test, is it reasonable to ask to be paid? And what sort of rights do I have to my work after I submit the test?"
Their response came across a bit sarcastically: "No. You do not get paid for art tests. And once you submit, that work becomes ours."
I don't mind so much about not being paid. Well I do, but not enough to not apply. But the whole "your work becomes ours" talk makes me nervous. I don't like the sound of that.
I know there's been much discussion on this in this thread, but I thought I will still post it to see what sort of reaction you guys have to it. Do any of you know these guys? Does it just vary from studio to studio or what?
First off, he sounds like a douche. Secondly he's an assistant QA? I bet the art director wouldn't have said that. Thirdly, he's wrong, unless you specifically sign away your rights, it belongs to you.
yeah i agree with AstroZombie, once mortgages, families, etc kick in, it becomes alot harder to drop everything on the chance of getting another job. but i think companies know that, and most will not test an applicant with alot of experience and a shit hot portfolio, and if you disscuss your situation (time constraints) a company worth working for would look to accomadate a test to that
fuckit didnt realise there was another page, yeah that guy sounds like a weiner, and probably has issues cos he doesnt get to make the games :poly124:
Lol, thanks for the responses guys. I'll be sure to watch out for the fine print when my time comes to take an art test. At least while I'm just getting settled in the industry, I don't think I'll ever ask to be paid for a long art test. From what I can tell, it's only a handful that have the epic sized art tests anyway. Maybe after I've been in the industry for ~10 years or so I might try with studio's that offer longer tests, but I don't want asking to jeopordize my chances getting a job. Doesn't seem worth it to me.
This has become a long thread and pretty much everything has been said like 100 different ways, but I feel that the super long epic art tests that are being given out is simply a matter of supply and demand. The market seems to have way more 3d artists floating around then there are jobs and simply put, companies can do what ever they want for this reason. A new artist cannot afford to be picky when no one else is responding to their applications.
This is definitely not a good thing for recent grads or budding artists but it is what it is and complaining about it won't help you get a job. I hope things with the economy and so fourth change to help new artists get jobs, but perhaps this is a good thing as it will inevitably weed out the weaker artists. Also this might bring to light that a degree from a game art schools does not = a job in the games industry and perhaps get the supply and demand more on track.
The market seems to have way more 3d artists floating around then there are jobs and simply put, companies can do what ever they want for this reason.
I don't know if that's true. If an art test is large in scope or exacting in requirements or detail, most of the time I would think it's because the studio putting it out is looking for potential hires who can demonstrate they can tackle a project efficiently and with good-quality results.
What you say, is probably going to mean that companies can afford to be a little more selective over applicants if there are a whole bunch applying for just one open slot, but I don't think that "more 3d artists floating around" necessarily equals "longer or bigger art tests". The art test would probably be the same regardless, after all you're judging the same qualities from it.
Just because there are less potential applicants in no way indicates that the test should be any easier - merely that studios will probably end up with less applicants per slot as a result.
I don't think studios really change their entry standard based on the number of potential hires available, they merely have a better talent pool to choose from which usually results in more choice of good quality hires.
Imagine asking a lawyer if he is willing to do a test. If you aren't doing the same quality of of work that your portfolio shows when you get the job then they should just let you go.
Imagine asking a lawyer if he is willing to do a test. If you aren't doing the same quality of of work that your portfolio shows when you get the job then they should just let you go.
I just read this thread, and i feel like i could have completed an epic art test in that time, haha.
I think when you get down to it, a week spent on an art test is a drop in the bucket. What I think is scary, is the investment of time necessary to have the skills to succeed at that art test.
Sure, you might think spending time on an art test is a waste of time, or see it as practice towards achieving your goal. Your call.
P.S. I'm showing my noob stripes here, but where does one get in on these art tests? i've never seen one posted before.
(Sorry for posting in an exponentially too epic thread)
Replies
However I wasn't employed at the time and lived nearby, I don't know what would happen with someone in a job, maybe it's just done for people who are newly coming into the industry.
well..
I do feel happy that i got the job i do and that i dont have to flip burgers. On the other hand I think that its my hard, hard work that have gotten me to where i am now. Sure we should all feel happy beeing able to work with what most of us also considers a hobby and/or a passion but i also feel that my knowledge and my skills are something that employers should value and beeing fortunate about having.
Just because i work with something i love i shouldnt have to get down on my knees, getting my nose all browny to justify it.
100% agree!
Also if its not part of the companies pipeline and they have zero interest in using it, why should they be forced to take time outside of work to learn something that doesn't apply?
On that same vein of thinking I guess everyone should be issued rigging, animation and fluid dynamics tests? Conceivably at some point in their career they might come in contact with some of those areas so they should be tossed out on their ass if they haven't mastered them yet, right?
I completely agree that it is in their best interest to continue learning and growing on their own, if they choose to do it.
I was a bit of a noob back then and am not sure if they give tests to everyone, ie those with more experience.
Weirdest test is at codemasters, I was there half a day locked in a room, doing doing some weird ass iq test stuff and doing concept art which I suck at.
I guess just reading all of the negativity in here...my general point is that it could always be worse. Either way, I lub you all. :P
It's up to you to like their rules or not. And that basically includes every second job you find anywhere.
It's still their investment.
You can tell the difference between a person who spent 20 hours making 1 really detailed room vs a guy who spent 10 hours blocking out the whole building, and the next ten hours spent adding in the details evenly throughout the level.
At the end of the 20 hours the first guy doesn't have anything useful, but the second guy has a complete vertical slice.
Anyone can have nice portfolio pieces if they spend 6 months on each of them.
Sounds like its time to unionize and shift the balance of power.
Sadly that will never happen as long as there are people willing to live in a studio apt with 18 other smelly guys, working for wal-mart wages. The industry will have plenty of people to abuse. So hopefully the more benevolent employers find a way to keep their doors open and shelter as many of us as they can.
LOL
On the subject of art tests;
I wasn't too bothered, only did one in the end anyway (SD.) The only thing that bothered me was the length of time for that particular art test, which was a week, but at the same time, as I was looking for work, if I hadn't done that art test during that week, I'd have been doing some other game art towards the portfolio. So not really wasted time, I don't think it can even become wasted time if you create something good during portfolio time.
But as for shorter art tests, without having ever done any, I can say they wouldn't really bother me (though in reality who knows??) A day or two is no worries.
God help us all if people actually start taking what I post, seriously...
There's no point in forming a union, not with a bunch of lazy, apathetic, assholes stuck in their hoverounds. But if there was such a thing, I would sign up for the free beer and whiskey.
I only give out tests when we have an applicant with a lot of potential, that doesn't necessarily display work that ticks all the boxes for the competency's and skills I am looking for.
I mean a portfolio full of naked guys and heads is great.. but what about sculpting realistic cloth or creating a great photo referenced texture.
Some times an applicant is lacking that fundamental element and thats when I think its a good idea to give them a test. I will always ask for more samples of that particular discipline if they have them... however most people dont, so a test is the most suitable thing.
What surprises me is that no one ever asks what we are looking to see from the tests... (character ones at least) An employer is definitely looking for particular things.. I think if the testee and the tester communicate better there will generally be more success all round.
I mean if you knew your lighting and rendering skills where fundamental to determine the success of your test you'd spend plenty of time doing them well right?
It also depends on who you're dealing with. Someone in HR might not bother getting the answers and might think you're sassy for asking questions.
Really either way, I think its a good idea, even if it nets you nothing. At the bare min, it will help by letting them know where their instructions cause confusion.
There have been a couple of times where I was in direct contact with the character lead, art director,etc....so it's definitely good advice. I have been tempted to ask those types of questions but kinda hold back in fear that I'll come across the wrong way.
i’m assuming they do art tests for those that are just coming into the industry, which is a lot of us, so some of us would get mistreated, i’m sure there are studios out there that don’t call you back and leave you hanging and treat you like crap, but it could just be that one person who you’re dealing with and it’s hard to swallow your pride sometime, but if it’s really worth it, suck it up and once you’re in maybe things will change and it will be worth it.
i don’t think studios do it to torture us, they get a lottttt of portfolios from everyone, people who are actually getting an education about the industry and working their asses off and then there are those who say work at gamestop (i have friends like this) or just play games and never opened a single modeling/animating and whatnot program ever and expect to get a job there as their lead concept artist/modeler/animator. the studio just wants to see if you can do it, maybe there are a few people up for the job and all of us get the project, one of us drops out, and just two left, one finished faster and it looks mediocre and the other finished just in time and it looks mind-blowing awesome, i’m sure they’d hire the person who one: didn’t drop out and two: who did it in the time limit and put the effort into making it amazing. if the guy who finished early did as good of a job or better than the other guy, i’m sure he’d be hired but i think studios are looking for people who are willing to go the extra mile, willing to lose maybe the 50 hours that it takes them to complete the test just to gain everything in return. i have no problem being one of those people, i’m willing to lose the sleep and my social life for the job that i really want. but i’m competitive like a lot of you, so i’d defiantly take it on.
I know too many cases of stupids saying about friends (yeah, they are stupids): "yes, he's very good doing characters with zbrush, but he don't know how to do environments and props". That happens a lot in spain, and i sadly feel an attitude of envy.
There are too many good companies out there, so don't try to work in a team where you feel yourself underestimated in the first moment.
That said, art tests are good as a filter if a current portfolio is not enough to show skills or if they are looking for an special style of work, or to test your speed...
For the majority of cases, I think is better to work in personal works for our portfolio than wasting time in a test we could not pass. Our portfolio should be the key to open the doors.
i dont know, i dont believe the whole youve either have talent or you dont i think its more of passion, you either have the passion to learn and practice or you dont care and you wont.
either way just because you can model the anatomy of a human or creature or whatnot, doesnt mean you can model the clothes, im still in school and i see classmates who do wonderful work with the body but when it comes to clothes and little assets and whatnot they have issues, it doesnt mean they cant learn how to do it, they just dont know. sometimes people hide their flaws, like back in the day when i was younger i hid hands when i drew people because i wasnt as good at drawing them. it could be the same thing with websites that the employers are looking at and if i was looking at someone who had naked models and no proof of being able to do clothes i would defiantly ask if they have any that arent posted or have them do an art test that requires clothes.
and since there are different type of artists in the industry, one might be only to only do models well while another could do environments. i myself am a lot better at character modeling than say vehicles. so i wouldnt find it insulting if they asked for something that wasnt shown on my site/blog/demo reel.
dude, you're wrong.
you can't turn a fun-loving game artist into a hard-realism sim artist over night.
some people simply aren't made for a certain type of art, and thats why you need art tests to figure it out.
'thats just 2 completely different modes of thought.
whereas the game artist goes for looks and feel, the sim artist goes for accuracy and fidelity.
game artists thinks accuracy and fidelity is boring and unneccesary, while sim artists thinks looks and feel are childish and simplistic.
If someone is a great character artist, and has talent for modelling, he will model all very well, without no doubt. That's something i have 100% checked. You can have all the passion from the world, but if your are not enough good, the passion will evaporate as hot water. I know too many people who started with a junior position, and at the end... they ended out of the industry because they were not so passionate, enthusiast.
I have seen a lot, and one are specialists doing different tasks of what they are customed to do. And their work was great!, ehem.
There are also generalists doing allmost all with great quality.
Almost all in this life can be learned, and if someone lacks of modelling clothing skills, is just to look at references and STUDY. The same is for anatomy and too many things, you know. To say others can't do anything because they like to do different things, when quality is demonstrated, is arrogant, and to underestimate their skills. Nobody likes to be underestimated.
All the great artists i know do very well all they are asked to do. Too many started as modellers, and are working as animators now... ¬¬, the same as some character artists working as environment artist because there weren't positions for their specialities.
For all these reasons, sometimes there's no need to ask for an art test when a portfolio is great. That's a waste of time, and i'm sure you understand it. At least is my opinion, and what i think, you may be agree or not.
That's to generalize.
I was at a game developers conference recently in which Steve Derrick, Ryan Oddey (Assitant Quality Insurance Lead for BioShock, Major recruiter for 2K Boston and works along side HR Manage Stephanie Day) and Stone Perales were there giving a session on tips and tricks on getting into the industry.
There was a little time for Q&A, and I asked them: "If I am asked to take a long art test, is it reasonable to ask to be paid? And what sort of rights do I have to my work after I submit the test?"
Their response came across a bit sarcastically: "No. You do not get paid for art tests. And once you submit, that work becomes ours."
I don't mind so much about not being paid. Well I do, but not enough to not apply. But the whole "your work becomes ours" talk makes me nervous. I don't like the sound of that.
I know there's been much discussion on this in this thread, but I thought I will still post it to see what sort of reaction you guys have to it. Do any of you know these guys? Does it just vary from studio to studio or what?
fuckit didnt realise there was another page, yeah that guy sounds like a weiner, and probably has issues cos he doesnt get to make the games :poly124:
This is definitely not a good thing for recent grads or budding artists but it is what it is and complaining about it won't help you get a job. I hope things with the economy and so fourth change to help new artists get jobs, but perhaps this is a good thing as it will inevitably weed out the weaker artists. Also this might bring to light that a degree from a game art schools does not = a job in the games industry and perhaps get the supply and demand more on track.
I don't know if that's true. If an art test is large in scope or exacting in requirements or detail, most of the time I would think it's because the studio putting it out is looking for potential hires who can demonstrate they can tackle a project efficiently and with good-quality results.
What you say, is probably going to mean that companies can afford to be a little more selective over applicants if there are a whole bunch applying for just one open slot, but I don't think that "more 3d artists floating around" necessarily equals "longer or bigger art tests". The art test would probably be the same regardless, after all you're judging the same qualities from it.
Just because there are less potential applicants in no way indicates that the test should be any easier - merely that studios will probably end up with less applicants per slot as a result.
I don't think studios really change their entry standard based on the number of potential hires available, they merely have a better talent pool to choose from which usually results in more choice of good quality hires.
This is incredibly expensive for both parties.
I think when you get down to it, a week spent on an art test is a drop in the bucket. What I think is scary, is the investment of time necessary to have the skills to succeed at that art test.
Sure, you might think spending time on an art test is a waste of time, or see it as practice towards achieving your goal. Your call.
P.S. I'm showing my noob stripes here, but where does one get in on these art tests? i've never seen one posted before.
(Sorry for posting in an exponentially too epic thread)
typically a company looking to hire you will offer you an art test before an interview.