Haha, the new vid is so brilliant, the action sequence with the music and all is just great.
Jackablade, yeah he says "My Little Cauliflower" but with a horrible accent, and a mistake maybe (sounds like ma petit choufleur, instead of ma petitE choufleur).
Playing a Spy is the closest thing to being a ninja in any game...ever. >:]
I'd put money on the fact that the Pyro is in fact the Scout's Mom and the Spy's lover.
Little Cauliflower does appear to be carrying a familiar purse in one of the photos. The pyro is completely the wrong shape though. I suspect it's all a red herring
Long range, high damage and crit headshot by the sounds of things.
I'm more intrigued by what's he's holding in his other hand. Looks like there's still are placement for the cigarette case on the way. Smoke bomb, perhaps?
yeah whats up with unlocking stuff ? and also i think spy is super overpowered now , jarate is a good laugh tho , the server was full of snipers and spies, was good to unrust my backburner.
That's kind of how the roll outs go? For the weekend of the roll out, that class is over powered then a week or two later things get turned down a notch and it balances out.
Eh, I don't think spy is overpowered, maybe more well rounded than before.
But yeah, this unlock random drop system needs to go; it's pure crap.
Other than that, the new payload map is awesome. Had a ton of fun playing that. But I can almost see it going the way of hydro, which hardly anyone plays due to the stalemate issue.
I also dislike the new unlocking system. I understand it's meant to fight the achievement boxers (which I did for a few unlocks), but I really did enjoy actually feeling like I've earned the unlockables.
I don't really think the Spy is OP. The Ambassador is pretty damn powerful, however. There's also a bug, or what I hope is a bug, with the Spy's backstab. It seems like backstabs won't register unless the "prep" animation has been triggered. So, you can be behind someone, slice them, take off a little of their HP, but not score a real "backstab". It actually seems like you need to be closer than ever to score a backstab now.
I love the idea of PL Race, but really dislike PLR Pipeline. To me, it doesn't feel like a well balanced/polished Valve map. I haven't had a chance to play Hoodoo yet, but I hear it's great.
Once the Pyros calm down with their oh-so-difficult mouse1+w, I'm sure I'll enjoy playing a Spy as much as ever.
Am I just a lazy fuck or does this achievement-weapon-unlocking thing seem shitty? I havent played in forever and I wanted to try these new weapons and it looks to me like I am going to have to farm some stupid shit for 100 hours to even try them. I no like.
i hate this new unlock system. i have yet to get any items from the new update, and have gotten 3 additional ubersaws and 2more force a' natures, items which i unlocked already.
Am I just a lazy fuck or does this achievement-weapon-unlocking thing seem shitty? I havent played in forever and I wanted to try these new weapons and it looks to me like I am going to have to farm some stupid shit for 100 hours to even try them. I no like.
yeah I hate it too....its obvious the change is a response to the amount of achievement farming prior to this update. If it was the same as before, I would have had all the spy's weapons by now...
This morning's Team Fortress blog update covers what they were thinking. I'm still inclined to agree with the haters, although I haven't actually played the update for long enough to recieve anythign myself yet, so am still not entirely sure how it all functions. http://www.teamfortress.com/
Its nice that the official word has spoke as the amount of negativity surrounding the area on the valve forums almost forced me into making an account... fortunately i saw sense before posting anything that would only fall on deaf ears anyway.
The biggest plus for me is the fact it now puts the focus back on playing TF2 for the sake of playing TF2, and while im aware that some play these content packs with their renewed interest fired soley by farming these new weapons you also have to wonder how many did it fairly. Its a really tough position, as valve seem to understand the idea of rewarding "improving" play as that was one of the reasons they implemented the stat system and having the messages saying "you reached x milestone, this was better than your previous!". The weapons and things to me seemed very much a reward that was meant to be in the same vain... it was to give a sense of accomplishment as you chipped away toward something as you played the class and I think it did work, I could and have got 60% of the achievements for every class and did get to experience the new weapons.
I dont mind the new system, I do dislike the removal of rewarding players for doing things but at the same time, if people were just going to unlock them unfairly then its kind of sad for them. The one thing I would like to see would be a stacking/rolling percentage increase that went up - but having something that can be measured and not cheated is hard. It'd be nice if time was the only factor, but with the people who "just dont have the time" idling in spectate/in game in hope of receiving an item that idea is out of the window.
I can understand the want to get hands on the new things, but the levels people have to stoop to is just fucking sad, so what better fix/punishment than to just force people to play the game they spend so much time improving?
The thing is, farming worked just fine for those who either don't have the patience or maybe lack the skill to unlock stuff the proper way. I had no problem with others doing it because it didn't affect my game experience at all. If anything it made it more interesting going up against newbs who thought that having the new items would make them an instant badass. I never farmed anything myself, and I would still unlock all the items within 2 or 3 nights of play. I liked it that way and had no interest in cheating that system. Part of what made it fun was having that skill+effort = reward mechanic.
It seems like valve opted to bell curve the shit out of unlockables just so some losers could feel special. Fuck that. You have to really really suck at that game to not be able to unlock stuff and I'm sorry but in all the time I played TF2 I never encountered anyone who sucked that bad so I don't see why that system needs to be dumbed down in order to coddle a minority. This new random reward bs breaks the game for me and makes me lose any interest I might have had in unlocking new shit. It also seems like they are pulling update material out of their asses now. Seriously, does anyone give a shit about unlocking or trading special hats? That's not the TF2 I signed on for.
Love the spy movie though, as always, valve does indeed rock with that stuff.
I do agree with you on the way the unlockable system worked and ive never been a fan of catering to casual players. Im a stupidly competitive person and I see improving in a game a big enough reward in itself... for me when the gates opened on TF2 i knew it wasnt the game for me, especially not after playing TFC for ~4 years.
The way i see it is that TF2 is a game thats built around fun and not alienating players... if you were to jump into TFC a few months prior to TF2 killing it off then the level of play would be an instant turn off for a lot of casual minded players who moan about not having the time to invest to get good. I personally dont agree with that attitude, and i fucking hate people not having pride in getting better as i personally thrive on adversity.
People who are new to TF2 without a background of FPS games can now jump in and have a chance to get and receive new shit with the emphasis being on fun. If you compare the skillsets required to get good in TF2 compared to q3 then I already think its hugely dummed down and very newb friendly - i just see it as the wrong game to moan about when it comes to "skills" and distancing players from content.
NOT that i dont agree with what youve said! I just think its pissing in the wind a bit, hell... if i had it my way id have bunnyhopping back and make pyro/hw not such point and click classes.
Id play that, even if it does look a bit gamebreaking but in saying that it would become a different game so who knows. Could be toned down to as it is now in HL, thats more akin to pre 1.5 patch that put the movement speed cap in. But, I can imagine the whine that would get... and to me thats the polar opposite of the casual friendly state it is now.
The thing is, farming worked just fine for those who either don't have the patience or maybe lack the skill to unlock stuff the proper way.
it may have worked, but it's not fun and it's not playing tf2..
I've not had a chance to play the new update yet, but I'm kinda one of the few that agrees with the decision (well, until I try it :P)
I never got any of the 3rd level unlocks, as all the easy/medium difficulty achievements had been got and it was just tedous/rare occurance achievements left. I don't want to do something that feels like work when I'm playing a game, if I did I would be playing online RPGs, fighting rats forever until I can level up and fight badgers.
I like TF2 because it doesn't cater to the 'stop having fun guys' crowd, which kills the fun of games. (i.e. extreme picmip and fov, lighting disabled, physics exploits as a standard, brightskins)
ps I don't understand the dumbed down comments, a skilled player can wipe the floor with an average player, any day of the week. when 2 experienced players duke it out, its a tense battle.
if i had it my way id have bunnyhopping back and make pyro/hw not such point and click classes.
I've never played TFC for long enough to get a real clear idea of it all. What are the differences in the handling for pyro and demo (and anyone else) to the way they work in TF2, besides the inclusion of grenades and some additional weapons?
Is that TF2 turbo avialable for download? I wouldn't mind taking it for a spin on our server.
I see the new unlock system as a reward to the people who have no job, don't go to school and play 24-7 and then burn out in 2-3 weeks after getting everything then you never see them again. All the while punishing the rest of us who have been playing faithfully when we can since launch. Which for me, is not that frequent...
If time is the only factor, people will just park themselves on servers with really long timers and let the time rack up. So instead of playing and doing goofy things, people stop playing?
Vig, you're making no sense. The achievements were what made people grind.
You're claiming that people will just stop playing, now? For that to be the case, they'd have to actively rejoin with every map, or just run their own server without a timer. You know, gaming the system. As people did with the achievement servers.
TFC and TF2 are really different in the way the clanmatches and things pan out. TFC was 8v8 which essentially was broke down into 2 4v4 games going on. Offence medics/scouts etc wouldnt attack the other teams offence and it would be a caprace essentially. Youd have 2-3 solders, a hw and an engineer holding choke points and calling incomings etc.
TF2 is a really good teamgame and theres little room for soloplays it seems... sure, they happen but they are rarer and definately not so game changing. In TFC it wasnt unusual for a good scout to do homeruns (CTF) or 1 soldier holding frontline to be the brickwall on the side. Pyro was a worthless class in tfc, demo on the otherhand would be a good flag defender... seeing as offence wouldnt deathmatch backline players much, theyd be forced to rush the flag and if a demo is there, they cant get close.
Rooster, you are right to some degree... good players CAN score high, and do average better, however due to the way the game is you can just as easily run around a corner as a soldier say and youd have no chance versus a pyro/hw, and in bottlenecks a soldier just has to aim in your general direction and it can be a 50/50 affair on whos the victor, especially if crits are a factor.
I guess what i see in skill is the better player standing out, a prime example of that is -
People who are new to TF2 without a background of FPS games can now jump in and have a chance to get and receive new shit with the emphasis being on fun. If you compare the skillsets required to get good in TF2 compared to q3 then I already think its hugely dummed down and very newb friendly - i just see it as the wrong game to moan about when it comes to "skills" and distancing players from content.
Actually I'm all for that, I like that TF2 is accessible. If I wanted to be ultra hardcore I'd probably still be playing quake or quake3 too. TF2 is about refinement and evolution of the shooter experience, both in gameplay and visuals. I've always preferred a more arcade/cartoony approach to this genre and TF2 is the culmination of that imo. My beef is strictly with the unocks. I like how the game plays just fine, even with all the unlockables and such that other 'hardcore' types tend to bitch about breaking the balance etc. To me they simply force you to rethink how you play each class vs the new updates.
My point was that farming didn't really affect how I was playing the game at all. Why should anyone care whether someone else is 'gaming the system'? It's just unlockables, and personal achievements don't really mean anything when you are duking it out on a server. A badass player is probably still going to pwn you no matter what weapons or class you are using - farming or not. If anything my approach is proof positive that it doesn't matter. I don't farm, and I still get all the unlocks. You never needed all the achievements to get all the unlocks. In fact after the first couple of updates they made it easier to unlock everything, but at least you still needed to put some effort in. 2 or 3 nights of gaming to get everything isn't a lot of work and I don't think it required an extraordinary amount of patience on my part. But maybe that's just me. I don't have ADD and I quite enjoyed playing the game as it was designed to be played. And I really enjoyed striving to get those more obscure achievements that actually required you to play a certain way - long after I had all the unlocks. I might not get them till months later but that was cool too. All part of the ongoing experience that kept TF2 fresh for me.
Some people just aren't interested in that though. They either need to have all the unlocks and don't care how they get them, or they need all the achievements to satisfy some false perfectionist obsession with their profiles. That is their problem though and shouldn't concern anyone else as it has no negative effects on how anyone else plays the game. I just can't believe there were enough people who complained about those types to actually cause valve to gimp the achievement system to prevent that. Or maybe it was that valve just couldn't stand people not playing their game the way they designed it? Either way the unlock system seems broken now, and the fun and challenge of choosing to work within it is gone.
We based the system on granting items on the amount of time played because we don't want players to have to do weird things like join achievement grinding servers to get new content.
I'll agree with all that and ill concede that I was looking forward to playing some sniper/spy... reading the achievements and slowly chipping away toward a few. I can see why they may have wanted to make the change and if im honest I did prefer the old system. Its just that the last two nights playing on vent i've been having fun eitherway so I dont really care, it's just fun to sit there... talk smack and kill people heh
So you're saying a casual player is more apt to score five headshots before dying or whatever than they are to just play the game for five hours total, in their lives, before unlocking something?
So you're saying a casual player is more apt to score five headshots before dying or whatever than they are to just play the game for five hours total, in their lives, before unlocking something?
I kinda liked the old method better, but I think they should have lowered the requirements even more, like get the unlocks for 2/4/6 achievements. Getting 6 achievements for a class is usually quite easy, and happens during normal play.
Vig, you're making no sense. The achievements were what made people grind.
You're claiming that people will just stop playing, now? For that to be the case, they'd have to actively rejoin with every map, or just run their own server without a timer. You know, gaming the system. As people did with the achievement servers.
I'm saying they aren't required to play, just join a sever without a timer. That isn't playing either... It's worse then achievement farming. How fun is it to play with people who just do the bare min not to go afk?
Might as well just drop the bs and release the weapons in the update, these "jump through the hoop" ideas are just stupid. Keep the MMO BS out of the FPS unless you specifically build and advertise them that way.
I don't play a lot - just when it comes up on game night at work. I'm pretty good at the game, comparatively speaking, but I haven't unlocked any additional weapons. For anything. I'd pretty much given up on ever doing it because I don't play much and when I do I'm not hunting achievements - I just want to shoot co-workers.
Seems like now there'll be chance of that occurring for all of us as we run around killing each other, and we'll get to try out some of the new stuff. To a casual player, this seems like a great way of handling it. Doling out bits of newness every hour or so, keeping things interesting. Or am I misunderstanding how it works?
If you're playing this for fun, or to get better and pwn newbs, why does any of this matter to you? Are the unlockables that much more powerful? Or is it that you've put in the time to get all the hard achievements and now someone's mom can get it by just running around dying, thus lessening the cool of you having it? I guess I don't see what the big deal is.
Replies
Jackablade, yeah he says "My Little Cauliflower" but with a horrible accent, and a mistake maybe (sounds like ma petit choufleur, instead of ma petitE choufleur).
I'd put money on the fact that the Pyro is in fact the Scout's Mom and the Spy's lover.
[ame]
Oops. already posted. well, now it's on this page also. ha.
so great ahahaha...
second column, second to the last alert message
http://www.teamfortress.com/
Heh. Valve got an achievement. (Bottom of the page)
The TF2 blog Adam linked to was great too.
The signs are a nice gag, "lost Dracula" "Found Dracula", wtf?
Also the intro to the short is great...
( Act surprised. )"
Ha
I'm more intrigued by what's he's holding in his other hand. Looks like there's still are placement for the cigarette case on the way. Smoke bomb, perhaps?
http://www.teamfortress.com/sniper_vs_spy/
HAHAHA *dies laughing*
HE PEED ON ME BITCH!
But yeah, this unlock random drop system needs to go; it's pure crap.
Other than that, the new payload map is awesome. Had a ton of fun playing that. But I can almost see it going the way of hydro, which hardly anyone plays due to the stalemate issue.
I don't really think the Spy is OP. The Ambassador is pretty damn powerful, however. There's also a bug, or what I hope is a bug, with the Spy's backstab. It seems like backstabs won't register unless the "prep" animation has been triggered. So, you can be behind someone, slice them, take off a little of their HP, but not score a real "backstab". It actually seems like you need to be closer than ever to score a backstab now.
I love the idea of PL Race, but really dislike PLR Pipeline. To me, it doesn't feel like a well balanced/polished Valve map. I haven't had a chance to play Hoodoo yet, but I hear it's great.
Once the Pyros calm down with their oh-so-difficult mouse1+w, I'm sure I'll enjoy playing a Spy as much as ever.
updating now
Do we need Ultima Online style macros now to cheat? :P
yeah I hate it too....its obvious the change is a response to the amount of achievement farming prior to this update. If it was the same as before, I would have had all the spy's weapons by now...
http://www.teamfortress.com/
The biggest plus for me is the fact it now puts the focus back on playing TF2 for the sake of playing TF2, and while im aware that some play these content packs with their renewed interest fired soley by farming these new weapons you also have to wonder how many did it fairly. Its a really tough position, as valve seem to understand the idea of rewarding "improving" play as that was one of the reasons they implemented the stat system and having the messages saying "you reached x milestone, this was better than your previous!". The weapons and things to me seemed very much a reward that was meant to be in the same vain... it was to give a sense of accomplishment as you chipped away toward something as you played the class and I think it did work, I could and have got 60% of the achievements for every class and did get to experience the new weapons.
I dont mind the new system, I do dislike the removal of rewarding players for doing things but at the same time, if people were just going to unlock them unfairly then its kind of sad for them. The one thing I would like to see would be a stacking/rolling percentage increase that went up - but having something that can be measured and not cheated is hard. It'd be nice if time was the only factor, but with the people who "just dont have the time" idling in spectate/in game in hope of receiving an item that idea is out of the window.
I can understand the want to get hands on the new things, but the levels people have to stoop to is just fucking sad, so what better fix/punishment than to just force people to play the game they spend so much time improving?
It seems like valve opted to bell curve the shit out of unlockables just so some losers could feel special. Fuck that. You have to really really suck at that game to not be able to unlock stuff and I'm sorry but in all the time I played TF2 I never encountered anyone who sucked that bad so I don't see why that system needs to be dumbed down in order to coddle a minority. This new random reward bs breaks the game for me and makes me lose any interest I might have had in unlocking new shit. It also seems like they are pulling update material out of their asses now. Seriously, does anyone give a shit about unlocking or trading special hats? That's not the TF2 I signed on for.
Love the spy movie though, as always, valve does indeed rock with that stuff.
The way i see it is that TF2 is a game thats built around fun and not alienating players... if you were to jump into TFC a few months prior to TF2 killing it off then the level of play would be an instant turn off for a lot of casual minded players who moan about not having the time to invest to get good. I personally dont agree with that attitude, and i fucking hate people not having pride in getting better as i personally thrive on adversity.
People who are new to TF2 without a background of FPS games can now jump in and have a chance to get and receive new shit with the emphasis being on fun. If you compare the skillsets required to get good in TF2 compared to q3 then I already think its hugely dummed down and very newb friendly - i just see it as the wrong game to moan about when it comes to "skills" and distancing players from content.
NOT that i dont agree with what youve said! I just think its pissing in the wind a bit, hell... if i had it my way id have bunnyhopping back and make pyro/hw not such point and click classes.
- A mod developed by some of the dudes behind FortressForever (TFC hl2 conversion)
[ame]
Id play that, even if it does look a bit gamebreaking but in saying that it would become a different game so who knows. Could be toned down to as it is now in HL, thats more akin to pre 1.5 patch that put the movement speed cap in. But, I can imagine the whine that would get... and to me thats the polar opposite of the casual friendly state it is now.
it may have worked, but it's not fun and it's not playing tf2..
I've not had a chance to play the new update yet, but I'm kinda one of the few that agrees with the decision (well, until I try it :P)
I never got any of the 3rd level unlocks, as all the easy/medium difficulty achievements had been got and it was just tedous/rare occurance achievements left. I don't want to do something that feels like work when I'm playing a game, if I did I would be playing online RPGs, fighting rats forever until I can level up and fight badgers.
Is that TF2 turbo avialable for download? I wouldn't mind taking it for a spin on our server.
If time is the only factor, people will just park themselves on servers with really long timers and let the time rack up. So instead of playing and doing goofy things, people stop playing?
You're claiming that people will just stop playing, now? For that to be the case, they'd have to actively rejoin with every map, or just run their own server without a timer. You know, gaming the system. As people did with the achievement servers.
TF2 is a really good teamgame and theres little room for soloplays it seems... sure, they happen but they are rarer and definately not so game changing. In TFC it wasnt unusual for a good scout to do homeruns (CTF) or 1 soldier holding frontline to be the brickwall on the side. Pyro was a worthless class in tfc, demo on the otherhand would be a good flag defender... seeing as offence wouldnt deathmatch backline players much, theyd be forced to rush the flag and if a demo is there, they cant get close.
Rooster, you are right to some degree... good players CAN score high, and do average better, however due to the way the game is you can just as easily run around a corner as a soldier say and youd have no chance versus a pyro/hw, and in bottlenecks a soldier just has to aim in your general direction and it can be a 50/50 affair on whos the victor, especially if crits are a factor.
I guess what i see in skill is the better player standing out, a prime example of that is -
[ame]http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1191039658863859879[/ame]
Actually I'm all for that, I like that TF2 is accessible. If I wanted to be ultra hardcore I'd probably still be playing quake or quake3 too. TF2 is about refinement and evolution of the shooter experience, both in gameplay and visuals. I've always preferred a more arcade/cartoony approach to this genre and TF2 is the culmination of that imo. My beef is strictly with the unocks. I like how the game plays just fine, even with all the unlockables and such that other 'hardcore' types tend to bitch about breaking the balance etc. To me they simply force you to rethink how you play each class vs the new updates.
My point was that farming didn't really affect how I was playing the game at all. Why should anyone care whether someone else is 'gaming the system'? It's just unlockables, and personal achievements don't really mean anything when you are duking it out on a server. A badass player is probably still going to pwn you no matter what weapons or class you are using - farming or not. If anything my approach is proof positive that it doesn't matter. I don't farm, and I still get all the unlocks. You never needed all the achievements to get all the unlocks. In fact after the first couple of updates they made it easier to unlock everything, but at least you still needed to put some effort in. 2 or 3 nights of gaming to get everything isn't a lot of work and I don't think it required an extraordinary amount of patience on my part. But maybe that's just me. I don't have ADD and I quite enjoyed playing the game as it was designed to be played. And I really enjoyed striving to get those more obscure achievements that actually required you to play a certain way - long after I had all the unlocks. I might not get them till months later but that was cool too. All part of the ongoing experience that kept TF2 fresh for me.
Some people just aren't interested in that though. They either need to have all the unlocks and don't care how they get them, or they need all the achievements to satisfy some false perfectionist obsession with their profiles. That is their problem though and shouldn't concern anyone else as it has no negative effects on how anyone else plays the game. I just can't believe there were enough people who complained about those types to actually cause valve to gimp the achievement system to prevent that. Or maybe it was that valve just couldn't stand people not playing their game the way they designed it? Either way the unlock system seems broken now, and the fun and challenge of choosing to work within it is gone.
Self-pwn
So you're saying a casual player is more apt to score five headshots before dying or whatever than they are to just play the game for five hours total, in their lives, before unlocking something?
I kinda liked the old method better, but I think they should have lowered the requirements even more, like get the unlocks for 2/4/6 achievements. Getting 6 achievements for a class is usually quite easy, and happens during normal play.
Might as well just drop the bs and release the weapons in the update, these "jump through the hoop" ideas are just stupid. Keep the MMO BS out of the FPS unless you specifically build and advertise them that way.
Its a pretty big turn off right now...
why not release them over time, if they want us to keep playing? release one a week or something
Seems like now there'll be chance of that occurring for all of us as we run around killing each other, and we'll get to try out some of the new stuff. To a casual player, this seems like a great way of handling it. Doling out bits of newness every hour or so, keeping things interesting. Or am I misunderstanding how it works?
If you're playing this for fun, or to get better and pwn newbs, why does any of this matter to you? Are the unlockables that much more powerful? Or is it that you've put in the time to get all the hard achievements and now someone's mom can get it by just running around dying, thus lessening the cool of you having it? I guess I don't see what the big deal is.