How did that rail way car get tangled up in the tree? Seems VERY much out of place without any other evidence to support it being their.
I think you need to work more on the story telling of your environment pieces. They seem empty with little indication that life has been their.
Also, looking at your textures, they are very wasteful. To much empty space and to much unique UV's that could have been symmetry.
Your lighting needs a LOT of work too. No contrast, no focal point in the scene. Like the ambient light is turned up wayyy to much and is just brightening everything up.
How did that rail way car get tangled up in the tree? Seems VERY much out of place without any other evidence to support it being their.
I've been told this before. An anachronism is something that is out of place chronologically. It is out of place. In time and physically. Perhaps it could benefit the work if I put the definition of anachronism on the page?
I think you need to work more on the story telling of your environment pieces. They seem empty with little indication that life has been their.
Again on the Anachronism this is kind of the point. Though i did want to add other assets to the train to make it more interesting...luggage, signs, fire extinguishers. And the Mantis scene meant to be empty most of the time. The idea is that when it needs to be used, pilots can come in through the portal and man the ships. This scene should also have more assets though I agree. More to show that the portal is used for this. Perhaps a description could help this one as well.
Also, looking at your textures, they are very wasteful. To much empty space and to much unique UV's that could have been symmetry.
I agree. When i was building mantis scene I intended on having some of those objects be less symmetrical in the textures, but due to time constraints I ended up having to cut back on that and the UV's were already created so I worked with it that way.
Your lighting needs a LOT of work too. No contrast, no focal point in the scene. Like the ambient light is turned up wayyy to much and is just brightening everything up.
I know what you mean. I though I had enough light sources in the rooms but when rendering the flythrough and taking the screenshots I got a lot of complaints about it being too dark so I added an ambient over the whole thing to show more of the scene. You are the first person to mention this though. If I return to that piece I will darken it. The truth is, I'd really like to recreate Mantis over again with more detailed models but I'm not sure if i want to devote my time to that or to creating brand new environments. I'll probablly go with the latter.
I've been told this before. An anachronism is something that is out of place chronologically. It is out of place. In time and physically. Perhaps it could benefit the work if I put the definition of anachronism on the page?
No. It may be that all of this was intentional from the outset, but to us, it feels very much like you're tacking the "anachronism" aspect on as a gimmick to explain silly placement.
Adding luggage and such to make the train "more interesting" will not help that much. Even an amazingly executed version of this scene would have left all of us wondering what the artist was smoking when he put it together.
It would be far better, to ditch the anachronism aspect, and instead, cut an old rail line through the jungle. Then make it overgrown. Show tree roots wrapping over the rails, and growing between the ties. Make the ties start to decompose. Make a trestle crossing this gorge, and rust it out. Then at some point this tree fell across it, and crushed most of it, pinning the car in place, and since then vines/roots have grown around the trestle, car, and tree.
That to me, would be a much more interesting scene. As much as artists want to be "artistic" and leave viewers with questions, the fact is, you're on a game art forum, and in our art, we need to make sure that we answer many questions, and that the questions that are left are truly interesting. In this case, the INTERESTING question isn't "Why the fuck is there a train car in the middle of the jungle with nothing supporting around it." it would be "Why was this rail line abandoned? And why was a train abandoned on this line?"
I know what you mean. I though I had enough light sources in the rooms but when rendering the flythrough and taking the screenshots I got a lot of complaints about it being too dark so I added an ambient over the whole thing to show more of the scene. You are the first person to mention this though. If I return to that piece I will darken it. The truth is, I'd really like to recreate Mantis over again with more detailed models but I'm not sure if i want to devote my time to that or to creating brand new environments. I'll probablly go with the latter.
"Too Dark!" is a very common complaint in game art (at least in my limited experience), but I've found that just generally brightening the whole scene up with ambient is rarely the answer. I would say move on from "mantis" and start a new scene using what you learned from your previous one. This time, turn your ambient off entirely, and try to just light the scene using actual lights. When an area feels too dark, see what you can do with real lights to make it feel better. Often a very subtle increase in lighting will make all the difference. It's sometimes intimidating to start with an empty scene to light. I like to start with the motivated lights (actual LIGHT objects in the scene), and move on from there.
I see what you are saying. If I were to come across something like this in game it would be odd unless it had some relevance to the rest of the story. Even then, if it had materialized out of thin air, why would it be suspended from a tree in a canyon...It is pretty unreasonable, but I did have a good time creating it and I still like the idea. In the future I'll can stay away from ambiguity.
I like the idea of starting with lighting. I'll use it on my next scene
Aside from this do you have any comments of the models/textures?
Ya, if you want to do something silly just for the fun of it (like a train car hung from a tree) go for it, just don't make it the centerpiece of your portfolio unless it's absolutely amazing.
Modeling is ok. Texturing is a bit mushy and arbitrary.
Nothing really specific, just keep working.
I'd say you should try something using modular pieces and tiling textures, as that's a bit of a hole I notice. Try a new scene, with those, and a new stab at lighting, and let us critique it as you go along. You'll learn more that way than us critiquing stuff after the fact.
Ok. That being said, what do you think about this concept? It was going to be my next endeavor but now it seems to me like it might still fall along the lines of too ambiguous. It's still pretty rough, I just wanted to get the gist of it down, but I think it will be a good way to use tiling textures and modular assets...
hmmm yea work on your texturing and lighting skills for sure man, that always is what seems to make or break work for me.
for this new concept, I am assuming its like a spaceship crashing through a building? maybe re work the design a bit so it reads as a ship more, my 1st thought was it was a sword or something and thats not what you want......I think?
some cool debris and particles would really sell the scene, like mid crash or something, could be dope.
Hey Se7ered. you've gotten lots of good constructive criticism here... what's true touched on your UV's, and I wanted to echo that not only would they have benefited from symmetry, but also there is just a WHOLE LOT of unused space. I've bee guilty of the same offense myself, and it's something that is very important to remember to do a very good job of. When it comes job getting time, the last thing you want to have on your list of crits is that your UV layouts are amateur. Saving data is EXTREMELY imporant.
fortunately there are ways to save your textures and still make new UV layouts for your objects. If you want to read an old ass thread of mine (where i posted some really awful work and got ripped) there's a method on page one wehre Pior and the Podman both tell how to transfer maps in max and maya... this could be helpful: http://boards.polycount.net/showthread.php?t=53576
Hey, i checked out that thread and it's pretty enlightening. I've used render to texture for my normal mapping but I didn't know that you could use it to rearrange your UV's. That's pretty rad.
Se7ered, this whole thread comes down to this: What are you trying to make? Are you making art for art's sake? Or are you trying to make game art to get a job making game art? If it's the former, do whatever the fuck you want, giant swords stuck through buildings, rail cars hanging from trees, whatever.
If it's the latter, you really need to think about what you're making from the point of view of a player. What kind of game is this for (RTS, FPS, MMO)? Even then, a giant Sword stuck through a building COULD be a very cool, single, visual, but what about that is "fun" for me as a player? If I'm playing your game, I want to play a game, not click through a bunch of cool pictures.
The sword through a building could be a cool part of a level, but as before, I want more to support it. Wtf happened, and why do I care as a player? You don't necessarily have to explain everything to the player, but you should sure as fuck have your backstory worked out at least.
I think you need to start on a smaller scale. I feel that one of the reasons your portfolio pieces are lacking is because you're trying to do everything at once. You have cool ideas and you're trying to show it all in one fell swoop. Instead I think you would benefit from stepping back from your badass ideas, and pick one small part of the scene, and work on that until IT is badass, then expand from there.
sword through a building eh? i'm confused? Why? how? why??
The whole scene may be a bit too much to as well. Why not tone down the epic sauce and just do a small room /area thats a bit more in the realistic believable realm? Doing weird "wtf" scenes like that just become entertainment for ppl to laugh at when we're bored at work.
I think you need to start on a smaller scale. I feel that one of the reasons your portfolio pieces are lacking is because you're trying to do everything at once. You have cool ideas and you're trying to show it all in one fell swoop. Instead I think you would benefit from stepping back from your badass ideas, and pick one small part of the scene, and work on that until IT is badass, then expand from there.
I had the same problem in school. That single car was initially going to be an entire train wreck...on a city street...my instructor talked me down to a single car and he was pretty stoked about the mysterious unexplained train...and i know where you would probably go from there 'That is school, this is the game industry' right? It's funny, because my thoughts from the beginning were to make a bunch of little scenes for my portfolio because i could show more in less time...i even talked with a few people about doing this. Yet somehow i end up with an entire city and a sword sticking through a building. When i think of stuff like that I just get really excited and I want to see it created. I'll stick to the smaller scenes though. Thanks for the feedback. It helps put things a little more in perspective.
No worries. Take a look around the forums at other people's portfolios and see which ones you think are really good. Look at what they're actually showing. Rarely is it a whole level, usually it's individual assets, or a small scene.
(don't look at mine, I haven't updated it in years, and it's NOT an example of a good portfolio.)
http://monstersplaynice.com/portal.html
You need to concentrate on consistency in your models.
You have tons of poly's near the center of the cone, you could half that and spend it on the lower poly pieces of the model, same with the two rods. As everyone else has stated about the UV's. Also work on your texturing.
Looks like you are getting too ambitious and quick when working on a project. Slow down relax and have fun, you're learning still. Also just because it sounds like a great idea to have a sword through a building or a several ton train car held up by a few vines, it may not be portfolio material.
If just for fun, then knock yourself out, the more you model, the more you'll learn.
And use a decent codec for your reel a 100meg demo reel is just way too big.
good catch on that link, thanks.
I'm going to edit my reel, right now it's five minutes and I'm thinking two should do it and that will bring the size down as well.
Something that someone mentioned to me when starting on 3D environmental stuff is to just pick something more intimate, kinda like how Tumerboy was saying. It'd be beneficial to work on something on a smaller scale instead of making this HUGE level or environment area, which would take up a lot of time and a little more manpower.
Go outside, take some pics of areas small in scale. Maybe an alleyway would be a good start (although it might be overdone). There's room to practice on many different elements there. Although it might be small in scale, you can get something more refined and polished in less time and you can explore different methods and ideas through that.
Replies
I think you need to work more on the story telling of your environment pieces. They seem empty with little indication that life has been their.
Also, looking at your textures, they are very wasteful. To much empty space and to much unique UV's that could have been symmetry.
Your lighting needs a LOT of work too. No contrast, no focal point in the scene. Like the ambient light is turned up wayyy to much and is just brightening everything up.
I've been told this before. An anachronism is something that is out of place chronologically. It is out of place. In time and physically. Perhaps it could benefit the work if I put the definition of anachronism on the page?
Again on the Anachronism this is kind of the point. Though i did want to add other assets to the train to make it more interesting...luggage, signs, fire extinguishers. And the Mantis scene meant to be empty most of the time. The idea is that when it needs to be used, pilots can come in through the portal and man the ships. This scene should also have more assets though I agree. More to show that the portal is used for this. Perhaps a description could help this one as well.
I agree. When i was building mantis scene I intended on having some of those objects be less symmetrical in the textures, but due to time constraints I ended up having to cut back on that and the UV's were already created so I worked with it that way.
I know what you mean. I though I had enough light sources in the rooms but when rendering the flythrough and taking the screenshots I got a lot of complaints about it being too dark so I added an ambient over the whole thing to show more of the scene. You are the first person to mention this though. If I return to that piece I will darken it. The truth is, I'd really like to recreate Mantis over again with more detailed models but I'm not sure if i want to devote my time to that or to creating brand new environments. I'll probablly go with the latter.
No. It may be that all of this was intentional from the outset, but to us, it feels very much like you're tacking the "anachronism" aspect on as a gimmick to explain silly placement.
Adding luggage and such to make the train "more interesting" will not help that much. Even an amazingly executed version of this scene would have left all of us wondering what the artist was smoking when he put it together.
It would be far better, to ditch the anachronism aspect, and instead, cut an old rail line through the jungle. Then make it overgrown. Show tree roots wrapping over the rails, and growing between the ties. Make the ties start to decompose. Make a trestle crossing this gorge, and rust it out. Then at some point this tree fell across it, and crushed most of it, pinning the car in place, and since then vines/roots have grown around the trestle, car, and tree.
That to me, would be a much more interesting scene. As much as artists want to be "artistic" and leave viewers with questions, the fact is, you're on a game art forum, and in our art, we need to make sure that we answer many questions, and that the questions that are left are truly interesting. In this case, the INTERESTING question isn't "Why the fuck is there a train car in the middle of the jungle with nothing supporting around it." it would be "Why was this rail line abandoned? And why was a train abandoned on this line?"
"Too Dark!" is a very common complaint in game art (at least in my limited experience), but I've found that just generally brightening the whole scene up with ambient is rarely the answer. I would say move on from "mantis" and start a new scene using what you learned from your previous one. This time, turn your ambient off entirely, and try to just light the scene using actual lights. When an area feels too dark, see what you can do with real lights to make it feel better. Often a very subtle increase in lighting will make all the difference. It's sometimes intimidating to start with an empty scene to light. I like to start with the motivated lights (actual LIGHT objects in the scene), and move on from there.
I like the idea of starting with lighting. I'll use it on my next scene
Aside from this do you have any comments of the models/textures?
Modeling is ok. Texturing is a bit mushy and arbitrary.
Nothing really specific, just keep working.
I'd say you should try something using modular pieces and tiling textures, as that's a bit of a hole I notice. Try a new scene, with those, and a new stab at lighting, and let us critique it as you go along. You'll learn more that way than us critiquing stuff after the fact.
for this new concept, I am assuming its like a spaceship crashing through a building? maybe re work the design a bit so it reads as a ship more, my 1st thought was it was a sword or something and thats not what you want......I think?
some cool debris and particles would really sell the scene, like mid crash or something, could be dope.
fortunately there are ways to save your textures and still make new UV layouts for your objects. If you want to read an old ass thread of mine (where i posted some really awful work and got ripped) there's a method on page one wehre Pior and the Podman both tell how to transfer maps in max and maya... this could be helpful: http://boards.polycount.net/showthread.php?t=53576
If it's the latter, you really need to think about what you're making from the point of view of a player. What kind of game is this for (RTS, FPS, MMO)? Even then, a giant Sword stuck through a building COULD be a very cool, single, visual, but what about that is "fun" for me as a player? If I'm playing your game, I want to play a game, not click through a bunch of cool pictures.
The sword through a building could be a cool part of a level, but as before, I want more to support it. Wtf happened, and why do I care as a player? You don't necessarily have to explain everything to the player, but you should sure as fuck have your backstory worked out at least.
I think you need to start on a smaller scale. I feel that one of the reasons your portfolio pieces are lacking is because you're trying to do everything at once. You have cool ideas and you're trying to show it all in one fell swoop. Instead I think you would benefit from stepping back from your badass ideas, and pick one small part of the scene, and work on that until IT is badass, then expand from there.
The whole scene may be a bit too much to as well. Why not tone down the epic sauce and just do a small room /area thats a bit more in the realistic believable realm? Doing weird "wtf" scenes like that just become entertainment for ppl to laugh at when we're bored at work.
I had the same problem in school. That single car was initially going to be an entire train wreck...on a city street...my instructor talked me down to a single car and he was pretty stoked about the mysterious unexplained train...and i know where you would probably go from there 'That is school, this is the game industry' right? It's funny, because my thoughts from the beginning were to make a bunch of little scenes for my portfolio because i could show more in less time...i even talked with a few people about doing this. Yet somehow i end up with an entire city and a sword sticking through a building. When i think of stuff like that I just get really excited and I want to see it created. I'll stick to the smaller scenes though. Thanks for the feedback. It helps put things a little more in perspective.
(don't look at mine, I haven't updated it in years, and it's NOT an example of a good portfolio.)
http://monstersplaynice.com/mantis.html <--this page has a link on it for--->
http://monstersplaynice.com/mantis05.htnl which is mispelled so it doesn't work.
http://monstersplaynice.com/portal.html
You need to concentrate on consistency in your models.
You have tons of poly's near the center of the cone, you could half that and spend it on the lower poly pieces of the model, same with the two rods. As everyone else has stated about the UV's. Also work on your texturing.
Looks like you are getting too ambitious and quick when working on a project. Slow down relax and have fun, you're learning still. Also just because it sounds like a great idea to have a sword through a building or a several ton train car held up by a few vines, it may not be portfolio material.
If just for fun, then knock yourself out, the more you model, the more you'll learn.
And use a decent codec for your reel a 100meg demo reel is just way too big.
I'm going to edit my reel, right now it's five minutes and I'm thinking two should do it and that will bring the size down as well.
Go outside, take some pics of areas small in scale. Maybe an alleyway would be a good start (although it might be overdone). There's room to practice on many different elements there. Although it might be small in scale, you can get something more refined and polished in less time and you can explore different methods and ideas through that.