Talk to your coworkers. I am sure they are in the same boat. Stand up and refuse to take their shit anymore. I don't know a single person in this industry who has stood up to stop being taken advantage of that was worse off for it. You are right to stand up, and you know if all of you stood up something would have to happen (something, not necessarily good or bad but something would happen). But no one is going to stand up if you don't. Take responsibility now and do the right thing. And if your coworkers are spineless cowards who would rather be screwed over than fight for their rights- you are good to leave that god forsaken hell hole anyway and move on to better things.
Mitch- Just do it. You will always have an excuse. Always. Bills, economy, family, mortgage, I like the people, whatever. What it comes down to is: you do it, or you don't. If you don't, you know what you are going to get- you are going to get abused and mistreated and things will get worse, not better. If you do it, if you stand up and say 'I'm mad as hell and I'm not gonna take it anymore', well, who knows what is going to happen. I do know this, I for one would rather be poor and happy with my decisions than regret every day for the decision I know I shouldn't have taken. But much more likely than being poor and jobless, you will stand up and get change, or you will all be fired, your company will tank, and you will move on to different things. The 3d community is a small place- spread the word about your company, hit the blogs and other boards. Make a stand here, because there won't be a better time to do it. There isn't a fundamentally more needed time to do it than when the chips are down.
You are giving me an excuse- I don't want to hear it. I know them. I've heard them. And I, at least, no longer accept them. But whether I accept it or not doesn't make a spit of difference- what I want you to know is that people all over the world in this industry feel the same way. And you have allies and you have brothers. And together you can achieve change. Don't wait for it. Just do it. Otherwise, instead of improvement and unity, you are going to have the same shit and the same threats, unless you stand up and shout, 'Here I am, you mother fuckers! Here WE are!'
it's basically abusive bullshit, and today i'm SO close to quitting. they want us to come in tommorow and i'm just going to refuse. i'd rather be jobless at this point
tough situation
I assume local van company. Not siding w/ your fuckshit execs at all but from an objective p.o.v., think of your rep man if you quit. Got more time left on your contract?
But if you do quit, van's a pretty good market to be in right now regardless of the competition. I see fresh jobs every week, granted most are no glam contract jobs but still anybody not afraid to hustle can survive. Just can't be picky though.
Wow, if you're talking about who I think you are, I'm glad I passed on the open position you had a little while back. Then again, even abuse and stupidity starts to sound good after you've been out a while.
Can you not call managements bluff... The thing is, if one of you stands up to it, yes, you'll get canned (most likely), but if 5 or 6 (small studio? got to be 40% of staff at least I guess) do that, are they really then going to risk the whole project by firing the lot of you to only waste huge amounts of time, energy, resources and money hiring in people that don't the project, or doubling the work load on those left? You can do that with one person but bringing a few people up to speed could tank a project, right?
Thats tough man. But i feel ya, dont take shit like that. Solid workers are always in demand. If your pulling a huge weight for the comp and piss off, it hurts them far more than you.
Im all about proper management and sticking up for the people that actually get there hands dirty and do the damn job! I hope something better works out for you man.
basically, to un-sugar coat Rob's words, even though they're fairly blunt already.
you have a very simple decision to make.
you can either respect yourself, and the work that you do. and stand up for yourself.
or you can accept that them treating you like shit is the right thing to happen.
there's no middle ground in situations like these, if a management team is trying to take, and not give anything, sooner or later things will break. find yourself a job, any job, as long as you have enough income from that new job to pay your bills. it could be a cab driver, a bus boy, a night shift worker in a factory, anything.
when you're secure, you tell your boss(es) to either start treating you better, or you'll leave. get your co-workers involved if you want to, it's their necks too. but rest assured that one of two things will happen as a result.
1. you keep your job and things get better at your studio.
2. you lose your job either by resigning, or being kicked out, and you'll be working at some other place which might not be the career you have in mind. but it's an income, and it's better than where you are right now (mentally/emotionally).
a bad management team can make a person feel very small. just remember that you're never as small as someone else wants you to be.
almighty: I disagree in one thing: "when you're secure". Bullshit. That time is passed. That is another excuse in waiting. 'When you're secure.' What is secure? When will I be secure? How will I know? If you aren't ready now, when the fuck will you be ready? I do agree with almighty in that the decision is very simple and clear, I just wouldn't inject another excuse into the matter. Or you are going to end up fooling yourself into thinking you are workings towards the first option by 'getting secure,' but you are really just making excuses because you accept being treated like shit.
The thing is, if one of you stands up to it, yes, you'll get canned (most likely), but if 5 or 6 (small studio? got to be 40% of staff at least I guess) do that, are they really then going to risk the whole project...
No, you're looking at it the wrong way. You are looking at it in the way that most others do, and nothing ever happens. You'll sit and wait for those 4 or 5 other people to back you up- will you ask them to back you up and quit if you are fired? And then will you be sure they'll even follow through with their word? You'll never know, and you'll never do what needs to be done if you wait to know. You'll be second guessing and disgruntled forever if you are going to wait for a pointless guarantee from that many people (pointless because you'll never be sure until it happens, and 4 or 5 others to even make the guarantee is a lot of people).
If you're going to do it, do it. Show strength and leadership and honor- those 4 or 5 others, if they were going to do it at all, will be even more likely to do it if you stand up this way. Things aren't at a point where you can plot and plan- that time is gone. I am sure more than 5 people think the way you do; I'd be willing 100% of the staff will side with you. The issue is rousing them to action, and until you rouse yourself to action, you cannot possibly expect to rouse anyone else.
I was alllllmoost tempted to PM you for a split second to find out if they're looking for character artists. But honestly, if you are here THIS upset...I can only imagine how I would adapt to the environment. The company I work for (non-gaming related) is right on the verge of doing the same thing...and for me, that's bad enough. I couldnt tolerate anything more extreme.
But definitely, like Rob and others have said...band together and take a stand. One man's words can get drowned out quickly by others fears, but if you guys told your "manager", or whatever the hell he is, that all of you are holding a meeting that requires his presence....then you got the fucker's attention. I cant stand letting the man abuse their employees...stick it to him man. If he is a half-way decent human being, he will at least hear all of you out and respect your feelings. And if he doesnt....then that should be a rude awakening for all of you. You guys really shouldnt have to put up with all of that stuff...it's just ethically and morally wrong.
the thing that we're getting is this story like.. "**** isn't paying us. i've been paying you guys out of my pocket, you should be thankful" etc etc "if you refuse to come in, that's incredibly selfish-- the project can get canceled and everyone will be out of a job".
Guilt trips and blackmail...mature. I say the lot of you leave, and help each other get better jobs.
... No, you're looking at it the wrong way. You are looking at it in the way that most others do, and nothing ever happens. You'll sit and wait for those 4 or 5 other people to back you up- will you ask them to back you up and quit if you are fired? And then will you be sure they'll even follow through with their word? You'll never know, and you'll never do what needs to be done if you wait to know. You'll be second guessing and disgruntled forever if you are going to wait for a pointless guarantee from that many people (pointless because you'll never be sure until it happens, and 4 or 5 others to even make the guarantee is a lot of people)...
My comment was meant as a generalism, if it were me, and I was asking around the studio, I'd simply lay the cards on the table with my (allegedly) disgruntled colleagues, making absolutely sure they were aware of the consequences of any singular or collective action and just go and do it myself (after giving them time to think about it "if you going to come, come, otherwise sit on your asses").
I'd be pissed, sure, but that would quickly pass knowing that if the others stayed and did nothing they'd have no-one but themselves to blame for further abuses. I have absolutely no problems standing up to 'authority' and doing what I think is right for myself - helping others along the way is a bonus :poly121:
Regardless if John does it alone or with a few of his colleagues, something definitely should be said.
I think if you approached others and said, "Let's at least hold a team meeting with Mr. Bossman and tell him what we feel", that would be a good positive start. And maybe even try to lay down some solutions...just to make an attempt to do your end of the deal. Your boss might be more receptive to that then just a bunch of whiny little artists who would rather have a little bit of a personal life then slave hours and days in front of a monitor. From my experience with my managers, if you give them feedback...it helps them instead of adding more stress and pressure on them. Even though your boss sounds like a complete dick jocky, he also is feeling a lot of the same pressures as you. And if he isnt recieving it from anywhere and he's just being unreasonable...then that sounds like a dead end street. And like someone said, blog about it....use the net as your tool to get the message out.
Ya, I have been in a similar situation, and when standing up and criticizing, its hard to count on everyone else to do the same; im only talking of my similar experience but people say one thing by the water cooler and have totally different responsibilities when put to the test in front of management, which you cant really blame them for.
I didnt leave this place for these reasons, but Ive definitely been left on the cross as a critic with no one at side. Looking back, the best thing in my situation would have been to just use more energy towards a seamless transfer rather than rallying the troops... and constant critisizm. no one argued with me when I would point out how management fucks over the staff, however people have responsibilities that dont allow them to stand up sometimes, so its best not to count on this and start doing things like working on your portfolio at work, ect ect - be the one that is most quiet at management but also the most active in looking and preparing elsewhere - this i believe will benefit you most.
almighty: I disagree in one thing: "when you're secure". Bullshit. That time is passed. That is another excuse in waiting. 'When you're secure.' What is secure? When will I be secure? How will I know? If you aren't ready now, when the fuck will you be ready? I do agree with almighty in that the decision is very simple and clear, I just wouldn't inject another excuse into the matter. Or you are going to end up fooling yourself into thinking you are workings towards the first option by 'getting secure,' but you are really just making excuses because you accept being treated like shit.
fair enough, i agree. if that ship has sailed then it's even simpler than i said to begin with.
you either like working there
or you don't.
if you don't like it there, then it's no major loss if you're no longer there. so make a stand, and deal with the consequences.
Can you not call managements bluff... The thing is, if one of you stands up to it, yes, you'll get canned (most likely), but if 5 or 6 (small studio? got to be 40% of staff at least I guess) do that, are they really then going to risk the whole project by firing the lot of you to only waste huge amounts of time, energy, resources and money hiring in people that don't the project, or doubling the work load on those left? You can do that with one person but bringing a few people up to speed could tank a project, right?
It's nice to think that if everyone bands together, management will see their viewpoint. However, if things really are this poorly managed, my guess is they'll take an attitude of everyone being replaceable. The problem to begin with, is these people not realizing how crappy they are at managing. You think they're going to suddenly snap out of it?
If you really feel this is your breaking point, then state your terms and deal with the consequences. Work the hours you feel are fair and see what happens. The worst that can happen is you lose your job, which might not be such a bad thing. Best case, you keep working in a crap atmosphere, but at least you're only there 40 hrs/week.
I don't know how much advice I can give...never worked at a studio. I've only done graphic design...and I've been unemployed since fucking October, bro...since that fucking long! After hearing your horror story I'd be more than happy to get the job! lol, although I don't think my skills are strong enough to get a 3d job....soooo, I'm actually applying for shitty jobs right now, cuz I need money to pay my fucking bills...I'm applying at retail, warehouses...EVERYWHERE!...but I can't seem to land a job any where, back in the day everywhere I applied I landed an interview...times are tough bro, just be aware of that if you quit. I don't know how much a 3d position pays, but I'm willing to do it for $10/hr just to get something on my resume! I wish I was a chick...or better looking, I'd sell my body on the streets! lol
maybe it's just me... but i just don't understand the american business place. (i realise vancouver is in canada...)
but over here we have employment contracts, signed by employer and employee, stating that your required hours each month must be hit to be paid your salery. this is usually around the 39-42 hours a week mark.
any work done volunterily over that amount of hours, is considdered gratis, they're not forced to pay you for it. any hours deducted, are removed from your salery.
if you are asked to work over that contracted amount of hours, you will either recieve additional money for it, or the hours back in leu (i usually take the money).
it's basically unlawful for someone to tell me "work the overtime or i'll fire you". so when i read on boards like this, that americans/canadians are working 50/60 hours a week, for a pittence of an income with no extra benefit, it just feels so wrong to me.
i've been thinking for a long time of moving to the states, to find/make my mark as a musician. but i'll need at least a part time job there too. and without any sort of contractual job security, i just don't see the point.
i've always been able to call my managers bluff when it comes to being overworked and under paid. and when i worked as a manager in sales, i pretty much championed the "fair workplace" attitude. and it worked gloriously. happy workers are productive workers, after all.
The guy sounds like a tool to me, completely out of touch with the attitudes of the people working for him. I think it's fair to say most people in this business are passionate and will go the extra mile for a leader they like and who respects them.
Sadly, in this case it sounds like if the project flies he'll take credit for it and if it bombs, it'll be the teams fault. Either way it seems like this is a boiling point for you and the company.
Rob and a few others have given some great advice for 'rallying the troops', I'd say give it a shot, hopefully things will work out for you guys. I'd also suggest putting a folio together and possibly making some discreet job applications to cover your ass if worst comes to worst.
Best of luck to you guys involved in this, it always sucks to hear about a good team being undermined by a shitty work environment.
Looking back, the best thing in my situation would have been to just use more energy towards a seamless transfer rather than rallying the troops...
Some people are more cut out for this than others. The people that are active and vigorous and passionate about this need to speak up- I know John is one such person. Others should take your advice, so when the time comes where they are the troops and they are asked to rally, they can have the peace of mind to know they've prepared for whatever may come.
Don't give any. You are exactly the problem. Management thinks they can have monkeys and scabs do jobs- monkeys and scabs who are 'just looking to get something on their resume' and will 'do it for $10/hr.' Well let me try to explain something- well actually I'm not going to give the effort at a proper explanation and will try to let you discover what I mean. The reason you are unemployed and can't find a 3D job in particular is because you probably approach things the same way in the same vein as the advice you are giving. Forego hard work, dignity, responsibility, professionalism, and instead 'sell your body on the streets.' For christ's sake, the link to your portfolio in your profile is broken and isn't even spelled correctly. Don't give advice. Please.
But back on topic: If you are going to do this, John and Mitch, please heed what I'm about to say. It is long and anecdotal but worth reading- I've been in this place at every job I've ever worked at with bad management and like to think I've learned a thing or two about speaking up and speaking out towards abuses and problems.I'll give the most recent anecdote of some emotional, foolish woman in the audience at the recent EA town hall meeting (mid-February I think) with CEO John Riccitello, in Vancouver (at Blackbox or EAC, can't remember). This woman stood up and started babbling about layoffs and how people have busted their asses for this company and are being fired, etc etc., tears were streaming down her face, very touching. Unfortunately this naive bitch said things like 'being a good person isn't enough' and other similar statements that demonstrated she had no objective view of the situation or rational basis for her rant. To the CEO. Of a multi-billion dollar company.
John (I actually don't dislike the guy) handled the question well, was very considerate, was empathetic, compassionate, said all the right things. He had all the answers, because her problems were the most blatantly obvious ones and rode entirely on emotion. By the time he finished, she got back on the mic and was practically cheering him- 'I think it rocks you want to develop new IP's and believe in the company,' things like that. Oh, and of course the 'I just don't know *sigh*, it, it, (tears well up), I, I, I...'. That's right, sit down bitch, the CEO just schooled you in the art of rhetoric, argument, and debate. Your point got so thoroughly trounced, the issues you want to bring up have actually been set back.
She didn't ask the questions like- "Are the analysts who made the bad predictions losing their jobs, or just developers?". Or, "We are cutting merit increases but keeping bonuses- but a bonus for a developer is about 4 times as much as a merit increase (say, 10% or 15% bonus to 2 or 3% merit), not including the fact that merit increases compound bonuses and future increases, but for management bonuses are between 40% (director) to 100% (executive). Are these bonuses going to be reduced to make the sacrifice more equitable?" Or, "With EA's focus on quality but widespread layoffs, are their plans in place to make sure employees aren't forced to pick up the extra workload, while at the same time their compensation is being frozen or cut?"
The list goes on. My point is, when you do this, do it right. I love a good show, but blowing up in a meeting, or riding on emotion, is a great way to excite a crowd but a terrible way to win an argument (except in front of an angry, sympathetic crowd). As soon as other employees think you are faltering, or week, they'll suddenly take management's side and make excuses for them. I've seen it happen every single time. People want to support you but suddenly their jobs seem very attractive if you falter or are going down in flames. You are an artist and you come into any discussion about management at a disadvantage- do your homework, do your preparation, and take advantage of what is in your favor. There's a reason people are scared to do this sort of thing, but that's all the more reason we, you, need to do it.
Don't give any. You are exactly the problem. Management thinks they can have monkeys and scabs do jobs- monkeys and scabs who are 'just looking to get something on their resume' and will 'do it for $10/hr.' Well let me try to explain something- well actually I'm not going to give the effort at a proper explanation and will try to let you discover what I mean. The reason you are unemployed and can't find a 3D job in particular is because you probably approach things the same way in the same vein as the advice you are giving. Forego hard work, dignity, responsibility, professionalism, and instead 'sell your body on the streets.' For christ's sake, the link to your portfolio in your profile is broken and isn't even spelled correctly. Don't give advice. Please.
The problem compounds when you are a good speaker actually, obviously if you are going to put management on the spot you are going to need to have some sort or common consensus before going into whatever meeting. If you are and exceptional motivational speaker, this can give you even more false positives. People will emphatically agree with you beforehand and then without saying decide against the idea and not stand with you... even though they agree with what you are saying.
Alternatively, if you rally people in a single meeting, and unfold this in front of management you are going to put the managers in a place where they have to make a reflex decision and I bet it wont be smart, or in your favor. And then they will stick to this decision no matter how stupid to save face.
Do you really think if whiny bitch said all the right things and nailed mr. ceo agianst the walll till he was like "uh uh uh" that it would have changed the decision to stop paying 200 people? he already had plans for that money before going into any meeting. IMO no talk was changing the direction of that meeting.
I agree with your ideal Rob totally, but it does seem like an ideal; not only would JOhn need to be a great leader to rally people, but he almost needs to be speaking to a room full of leaders, if hes not, most of the sheep will no doubt follow the money when it comes down to it. People are very ok when being stepped on. its a disgusting human trait, but a common one proven throughout history many times.
Its just so much much MUCH much easier to find a place with good management and move there, than to change bad management into good management. When you talk to a place with good people, everyone understands each other, the management wont hire douchebag scabs that like being stepped on and you can tell when you are being interviewed by people who treat employees with respect, for the most part....
I love my job and where I work right now. Only negative thing I can say is that it's short term. I'm out the door in 2 months and it breaks my damn heart. I don't want to leave Turn10.
Don't give any. You are exactly the problem... The reason you are unemployed and can't find a 3D job in particular is because you probably approach things the same way in the same vein as the advice you are giving. Forego hard work, dignity, responsibility, professionalism, and instead 'sell your body on the streets.'
Geeze rob, you're like dr. Tran, always dole'ing out the harshness
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FO0kRE5OTZI[/ame]
John, don't take that kind of abuse. If your management is incompetent no amount of reasoning on your part is going to fix it. If you've got some good contacts outside the company see if you can use them to land yourself a new gig otherwise just shoot out your resume and get out of their as fast as you can.
Rob- I'm sorry bro, but management is like that in any company. I don't know why you're focusing your anger at the guy willing to do the work for experience/money. I don't have a 3d job cuz I haven't applied at any. I feel my work isn't going to give me a job, so I'm working on it and want to make sure my work is good before sending my resume to HR and being laughed at.
Guy A and Guy B go to the same interview, they're both qualified and both can do the same job....Guy B asks for way less than Guy A....You know damn well that management is going to hire Guy B. My advice to him was that it's tough out there and to keep that in mind if he quits. Now, you and many others need to realize this, we're heading towards some fucking tough times in our economy and we might have to settle for less than what we normally would. There's even a thread here warning EA guys to get all their shit out of the office before they get called in.
And about "selling my body on the streets"...that's honestly how I feel, LOL. No ones hiring, and I was watching an episode of COPS and saw how easy it was for the hooker-ladies to get some cash, lol. I have an appointment tomorrow to get certified as a Forklift Operator...now, how the hell is that going to help me get a 3d career? It's not! I need some fucking money, cuz I've been unemployed for so long...that I'm branching out to do things I normally wouldn't.
But I'm sorry you think I'm a monkey and scab (don't really get the scab part). But try running a company where all employee's are asking for top pay in this tough economy. I'm sure then you'll be looking at it through management's eyes.
And please don't come at me about my professionalism in a forum where there's a freaking cock-tank challenge, lol.
sorry to hear that john, as soon as you described your experience i knew exactly where you were working heh.
I do hope you sort this out soon man, it doesnt sound very healthy at the moment.
I have seen very few talented artists, who are willing to relocate, have trouble finding work in these "tough economic times." Personally I think that the industry is just on one of its downswings right now and that the state of the economy has very little, if nothing, to do with it. The fact is, there have been several studios closings here in the Dallas area recently as well as lay-offs at the company I am presently at and the majority of the talented folks have not had any kind of trouble finding new gigs. If you were content to rest on your laurels at the company that you were at, not willing to take the time to learn new tech and unwilling to relocate, you may be finding yourself in a rough spot, but that's really kind of your own fault, ain't it?
Autopsy Spider ... Graphic designer, eh? That use to be a prestigious and high paying job before the mid to late 1990s. You know what happened to that industry is that there were so many kids graduating from college and eager to get their foot in the door that they were willing to work for $6-$8 / hour and killed it off for the truly talented people in the graphic design industry. Fortunately the game industry is far more technical and demands a much higher combined level of artistic and technical ability so I don't foresee that happening anytime in the near future. Although the outsourcing studios in third world countries are only going to continue to improve so who knows what the future holds. At any rate, I don't think that your willingness to work for rock bottom prices just to get a foot in the door is going to be a serious threat to anyone just yet
Replies
Care to explain?
isn this the story of almost any game job?
lol
only joshin
Give it to Aramanguy or ae. they both live here and are frothing at the mouth to get under some abusive management...
<<<<EDIT: Im blazing it up in honor of this post, well last post... ah shit well, try and stop me anyway...
Talk to your coworkers. I am sure they are in the same boat. Stand up and refuse to take their shit anymore. I don't know a single person in this industry who has stood up to stop being taken advantage of that was worse off for it. You are right to stand up, and you know if all of you stood up something would have to happen (something, not necessarily good or bad but something would happen). But no one is going to stand up if you don't. Take responsibility now and do the right thing. And if your coworkers are spineless cowards who would rather be screwed over than fight for their rights- you are good to leave that god forsaken hell hole anyway and move on to better things.
You are giving me an excuse- I don't want to hear it. I know them. I've heard them. And I, at least, no longer accept them. But whether I accept it or not doesn't make a spit of difference- what I want you to know is that people all over the world in this industry feel the same way. And you have allies and you have brothers. And together you can achieve change. Don't wait for it. Just do it. Otherwise, instead of improvement and unity, you are going to have the same shit and the same threats, unless you stand up and shout, 'Here I am, you mother fuckers! Here WE are!'
tough situation
I assume local van company. Not siding w/ your fuckshit execs at all but from an objective p.o.v., think of your rep man if you quit. Got more time left on your contract?
But if you do quit, van's a pretty good market to be in right now regardless of the competition. I see fresh jobs every week, granted most are no glam contract jobs but still anybody not afraid to hustle can survive. Just can't be picky though.
he speaks the truth :P :poly122:
what aesir said. that would be awsome:poly124:
Im all about proper management and sticking up for the people that actually get there hands dirty and do the damn job! I hope something better works out for you man.
you have a very simple decision to make.
you can either respect yourself, and the work that you do. and stand up for yourself.
or you can accept that them treating you like shit is the right thing to happen.
there's no middle ground in situations like these, if a management team is trying to take, and not give anything, sooner or later things will break. find yourself a job, any job, as long as you have enough income from that new job to pay your bills. it could be a cab driver, a bus boy, a night shift worker in a factory, anything.
when you're secure, you tell your boss(es) to either start treating you better, or you'll leave. get your co-workers involved if you want to, it's their necks too. but rest assured that one of two things will happen as a result.
1. you keep your job and things get better at your studio.
2. you lose your job either by resigning, or being kicked out, and you'll be working at some other place which might not be the career you have in mind. but it's an income, and it's better than where you are right now (mentally/emotionally).
a bad management team can make a person feel very small. just remember that you're never as small as someone else wants you to be.
No, you're looking at it the wrong way. You are looking at it in the way that most others do, and nothing ever happens. You'll sit and wait for those 4 or 5 other people to back you up- will you ask them to back you up and quit if you are fired? And then will you be sure they'll even follow through with their word? You'll never know, and you'll never do what needs to be done if you wait to know. You'll be second guessing and disgruntled forever if you are going to wait for a pointless guarantee from that many people (pointless because you'll never be sure until it happens, and 4 or 5 others to even make the guarantee is a lot of people).
If you're going to do it, do it. Show strength and leadership and honor- those 4 or 5 others, if they were going to do it at all, will be even more likely to do it if you stand up this way. Things aren't at a point where you can plot and plan- that time is gone. I am sure more than 5 people think the way you do; I'd be willing 100% of the staff will side with you. The issue is rousing them to action, and until you rouse yourself to action, you cannot possibly expect to rouse anyone else.
But definitely, like Rob and others have said...band together and take a stand. One man's words can get drowned out quickly by others fears, but if you guys told your "manager", or whatever the hell he is, that all of you are holding a meeting that requires his presence....then you got the fucker's attention. I cant stand letting the man abuse their employees...stick it to him man. If he is a half-way decent human being, he will at least hear all of you out and respect your feelings. And if he doesnt....then that should be a rude awakening for all of you. You guys really shouldnt have to put up with all of that stuff...it's just ethically and morally wrong.
Guilt trips and blackmail...mature. I say the lot of you leave, and help each other get better jobs.
Also +1 for the webcam idea.
I'd be pissed, sure, but that would quickly pass knowing that if the others stayed and did nothing they'd have no-one but themselves to blame for further abuses. I have absolutely no problems standing up to 'authority' and doing what I think is right for myself - helping others along the way is a bonus :poly121:
I think if you approached others and said, "Let's at least hold a team meeting with Mr. Bossman and tell him what we feel", that would be a good positive start. And maybe even try to lay down some solutions...just to make an attempt to do your end of the deal. Your boss might be more receptive to that then just a bunch of whiny little artists who would rather have a little bit of a personal life then slave hours and days in front of a monitor. From my experience with my managers, if you give them feedback...it helps them instead of adding more stress and pressure on them. Even though your boss sounds like a complete dick jocky, he also is feeling a lot of the same pressures as you. And if he isnt recieving it from anywhere and he's just being unreasonable...then that sounds like a dead end street. And like someone said, blog about it....use the net as your tool to get the message out.
I didnt leave this place for these reasons, but Ive definitely been left on the cross as a critic with no one at side. Looking back, the best thing in my situation would have been to just use more energy towards a seamless transfer rather than rallying the troops... and constant critisizm. no one argued with me when I would point out how management fucks over the staff, however people have responsibilities that dont allow them to stand up sometimes, so its best not to count on this and start doing things like working on your portfolio at work, ect ect
Maybe then they'll at least appreciate you more =D
fair enough, i agree. if that ship has sailed then it's even simpler than i said to begin with.
you either like working there
or you don't.
if you don't like it there, then it's no major loss if you're no longer there. so make a stand, and deal with the consequences.
It's nice to think that if everyone bands together, management will see their viewpoint. However, if things really are this poorly managed, my guess is they'll take an attitude of everyone being replaceable. The problem to begin with, is these people not realizing how crappy they are at managing. You think they're going to suddenly snap out of it?
If you really feel this is your breaking point, then state your terms and deal with the consequences. Work the hours you feel are fair and see what happens. The worst that can happen is you lose your job, which might not be such a bad thing. Best case, you keep working in a crap atmosphere, but at least you're only there 40 hrs/week.
but over here we have employment contracts, signed by employer and employee, stating that your required hours each month must be hit to be paid your salery. this is usually around the 39-42 hours a week mark.
any work done volunterily over that amount of hours, is considdered gratis, they're not forced to pay you for it. any hours deducted, are removed from your salery.
if you are asked to work over that contracted amount of hours, you will either recieve additional money for it, or the hours back in leu (i usually take the money).
it's basically unlawful for someone to tell me "work the overtime or i'll fire you". so when i read on boards like this, that americans/canadians are working 50/60 hours a week, for a pittence of an income with no extra benefit, it just feels so wrong to me.
i've been thinking for a long time of moving to the states, to find/make my mark as a musician. but i'll need at least a part time job there too. and without any sort of contractual job security, i just don't see the point.
i've always been able to call my managers bluff when it comes to being overworked and under paid. and when i worked as a manager in sales, i pretty much championed the "fair workplace" attitude. and it worked gloriously. happy workers are productive workers, after all.
The guy sounds like a tool to me, completely out of touch with the attitudes of the people working for him. I think it's fair to say most people in this business are passionate and will go the extra mile for a leader they like and who respects them.
Sadly, in this case it sounds like if the project flies he'll take credit for it and if it bombs, it'll be the teams fault. Either way it seems like this is a boiling point for you and the company.
Rob and a few others have given some great advice for 'rallying the troops', I'd say give it a shot, hopefully things will work out for you guys. I'd also suggest putting a folio together and possibly making some discreet job applications to cover your ass if worst comes to worst.
Best of luck to you guys involved in this, it always sucks to hear about a good team being undermined by a shitty work environment.
Don't give any. You are exactly the problem. Management thinks they can have monkeys and scabs do jobs- monkeys and scabs who are 'just looking to get something on their resume' and will 'do it for $10/hr.' Well let me try to explain something- well actually I'm not going to give the effort at a proper explanation and will try to let you discover what I mean. The reason you are unemployed and can't find a 3D job in particular is because you probably approach things the same way in the same vein as the advice you are giving. Forego hard work, dignity, responsibility, professionalism, and instead 'sell your body on the streets.' For christ's sake, the link to your portfolio in your profile is broken and isn't even spelled correctly. Don't give advice. Please.
But back on topic: If you are going to do this, John and Mitch, please heed what I'm about to say. It is long and anecdotal but worth reading- I've been in this place at every job I've ever worked at with bad management and like to think I've learned a thing or two about speaking up and speaking out towards abuses and problems.I'll give the most recent anecdote of some emotional, foolish woman in the audience at the recent EA town hall meeting (mid-February I think) with CEO John Riccitello, in Vancouver (at Blackbox or EAC, can't remember). This woman stood up and started babbling about layoffs and how people have busted their asses for this company and are being fired, etc etc., tears were streaming down her face, very touching. Unfortunately this naive bitch said things like 'being a good person isn't enough' and other similar statements that demonstrated she had no objective view of the situation or rational basis for her rant. To the CEO. Of a multi-billion dollar company.
John (I actually don't dislike the guy) handled the question well, was very considerate, was empathetic, compassionate, said all the right things. He had all the answers, because her problems were the most blatantly obvious ones and rode entirely on emotion. By the time he finished, she got back on the mic and was practically cheering him- 'I think it rocks you want to develop new IP's and believe in the company,' things like that. Oh, and of course the 'I just don't know *sigh*, it, it, (tears well up), I, I, I...'. That's right, sit down bitch, the CEO just schooled you in the art of rhetoric, argument, and debate. Your point got so thoroughly trounced, the issues you want to bring up have actually been set back.
She didn't ask the questions like- "Are the analysts who made the bad predictions losing their jobs, or just developers?". Or, "We are cutting merit increases but keeping bonuses- but a bonus for a developer is about 4 times as much as a merit increase (say, 10% or 15% bonus to 2 or 3% merit), not including the fact that merit increases compound bonuses and future increases, but for management bonuses are between 40% (director) to 100% (executive). Are these bonuses going to be reduced to make the sacrifice more equitable?" Or, "With EA's focus on quality but widespread layoffs, are their plans in place to make sure employees aren't forced to pick up the extra workload, while at the same time their compensation is being frozen or cut?"
The list goes on. My point is, when you do this, do it right. I love a good show, but blowing up in a meeting, or riding on emotion, is a great way to excite a crowd but a terrible way to win an argument (except in front of an angry, sympathetic crowd). As soon as other employees think you are faltering, or week, they'll suddenly take management's side and make excuses for them. I've seen it happen every single time. People want to support you but suddenly their jobs seem very attractive if you falter or are going down in flames. You are an artist and you come into any discussion about management at a disadvantage- do your homework, do your preparation, and take advantage of what is in your favor. There's a reason people are scared to do this sort of thing, but that's all the more reason we, you, need to do it.
Jesus. Gotta fucking love polycount.
Alternatively, if you rally people in a single meeting, and unfold this in front of management you are going to put the managers in a place where they have to make a reflex decision and I bet it wont be smart, or in your favor. And then they will stick to this decision no matter how stupid to save face.
Do you really think if whiny bitch said all the right things and nailed mr. ceo agianst the walll till he was like "uh uh uh" that it would have changed the decision to stop paying 200 people? he already had plans for that money before going into any meeting. IMO no talk was changing the direction of that meeting.
I agree with your ideal Rob totally, but it does seem like an ideal; not only would JOhn need to be a great leader to rally people, but he almost needs to be speaking to a room full of leaders, if hes not, most of the sheep will no doubt follow the money when it comes down to it. People are very ok when being stepped on. its a disgusting human trait, but a common one proven throughout history many times.
Its just so much much MUCH much easier to find a place with good management and move there, than to change bad management into good management. When you talk to a place with good people, everyone understands each other, the management wont hire douchebag scabs that like being stepped on and you can tell when you are being interviewed by people who treat employees with respect, for the most part....
Geeze rob, you're like dr. Tran, always dole'ing out the harshness
[ame]
John, don't take that kind of abuse. If your management is incompetent no amount of reasoning on your part is going to fix it. If you've got some good contacts outside the company see if you can use them to land yourself a new gig otherwise just shoot out your resume and get out of their as fast as you can.
Guy A and Guy B go to the same interview, they're both qualified and both can do the same job....Guy B asks for way less than Guy A....You know damn well that management is going to hire Guy B. My advice to him was that it's tough out there and to keep that in mind if he quits. Now, you and many others need to realize this, we're heading towards some fucking tough times in our economy and we might have to settle for less than what we normally would. There's even a thread here warning EA guys to get all their shit out of the office before they get called in.
And about "selling my body on the streets"...that's honestly how I feel, LOL. No ones hiring, and I was watching an episode of COPS and saw how easy it was for the hooker-ladies to get some cash, lol. I have an appointment tomorrow to get certified as a Forklift Operator...now, how the hell is that going to help me get a 3d career? It's not! I need some fucking money, cuz I've been unemployed for so long...that I'm branching out to do things I normally wouldn't.
But I'm sorry you think I'm a monkey and scab (don't really get the scab part). But try running a company where all employee's are asking for top pay in this tough economy. I'm sure then you'll be looking at it through management's eyes.
And please don't come at me about my professionalism in a forum where there's a freaking cock-tank challenge, lol.
I do hope you sort this out soon man, it doesnt sound very healthy at the moment.
Autopsy Spider ... Graphic designer, eh? That use to be a prestigious and high paying job before the mid to late 1990s. You know what happened to that industry is that there were so many kids graduating from college and eager to get their foot in the door that they were willing to work for $6-$8 / hour and killed it off for the truly talented people in the graphic design industry. Fortunately the game industry is far more technical and demands a much higher combined level of artistic and technical ability so I don't foresee that happening anytime in the near future. Although the outsourcing studios in third world countries are only going to continue to improve so who knows what the future holds. At any rate, I don't think that your willingness to work for rock bottom prices just to get a foot in the door is going to be a serious threat to anyone just yet