Workstation vs. consumer hardware
My Alienware laptop recently died two weeks ago and I'm going to build a desktop again. My last desktop (built about 4 years ago) ran Maya, 3Ds Max OK and had consumer parts like a Radeon instead of FireGL.
From what I gathered, workstation video cards are clocked lower and have specific drivers to help run Maya and other professional applications better, but don't actually help in the rendering stages. They cost a lot more, and don't run games as fast.
Also, are Xeon-processors better then core i7 or intel's latest? My neigbhor tells me that they are much better at managing recourses then mainstream CPU's, and thus keep your system up to speed much better.
I want to get the best bang for my buck, and I still want to game a little on the side. Is it worth it to go with the more expensive, but slower workstation hardware because of the drivers they have it, or should I just simply stick with a consumer-oriented hardware.
From what I gathered, workstation video cards are clocked lower and have specific drivers to help run Maya and other professional applications better, but don't actually help in the rendering stages. They cost a lot more, and don't run games as fast.
Also, are Xeon-processors better then core i7 or intel's latest? My neigbhor tells me that they are much better at managing recourses then mainstream CPU's, and thus keep your system up to speed much better.
I want to get the best bang for my buck, and I still want to game a little on the side. Is it worth it to go with the more expensive, but slower workstation hardware because of the drivers they have it, or should I just simply stick with a consumer-oriented hardware.
Replies
granted you still can pack a quad core cpu, with 8-16gigs of ram and beefy video card or two in there, thats going to run about as well as the software will support nowadays anyway.
Your best bet is to find out which core your consumer card is running by getting some software that gives you diagnostics information like that. You can easily find them online. Once you know the exact core number you can cross check that with known workstation cards and see which consumer core they are based on. If the video card you are looking at doesn't have a workstation card based on it then I would look for another one.
If you match the core numbers up you can even softmod some cards and turn them into workstation cards, but that's more work than its worth in my opinion because then renders the machine useless for gaming and if you are like me and want to have your 3d package and game engine open at the same time just stick with a consumer card and try to rangle the issues.
In reality this stuff is for CAD work, and(xeon)servers and math heavy work(medical applications?) and really not suited to doing game art.
Yeah the solution here is do not use maya, too many people have been fooled into using this programming app to make models anyway.
=D
Any app that does not support the hardware that 90% of the games industry uses is just.... There are not even words how massive a fail that is.
You bring up a very good point here, Quadro's and the like are ass for games, and so much of games work these days involves using a realtime engine, in which case any decent consumer card will blow the Quadro out of the water.
I priced a computer on Newegg for around 2k (includes a 24 inch monitor) that's a core i7 and a 2 gb GDDR Radeon X2. This is the same amount of money that I spent on the Alienware 3 years ago.
BTW, I still don't think workstation stuff is completely bad. My neighbor has a 7 year old computer with FireGL and Xeon and he has Vista installed and working fine on it. It's pretty rock-solid, stability wise.
Go consumer without a doubt.
On my 8800GTX I can't use dual monitors with Maya. If I try to enable dual monitor optimization so Maya view ports will show up on either screen my 3D view ports freak out and wont update until I release the mouse or stop whatever interaction I am trying to do with them.
However, my Quadro at work does not have this problem.
If you are running a single screen I don't think there are many issues, that said, my laptops 8800m GTX has its own funky issues and crashes often.
At the end of the day Autodesk ONLY tests Maya on workstation cards so there WILL be stability problems with untested hardware.
Just to be clear though I agree, GO CONSUMER, (workstation hardware is WAY too expensive) just don't expect everything to run smooth as butter if you use Maya. Other apps don't seam to have as many if any problems though, plus Modo kicks Maya's ass in many ways. If my pipeline didn't require so much scripting in mel I wouldn't be using Maya AT ALL.
EQ is correct here, I worked IT for the General hospital here in Vancouver, I installed maybe 100 or more dual core xeon workstations with the quadro cards in em for the Radiologists here, eventually, after about 3 yrs when I was thinking of upgrading my PC, I thought maybe I could get a deal on these xeon HP workstations so I tried it out with Max. Worked oK but not better than my core i7 machine now. I did notice that the viewport was running better or looked more crisp, but that could also have to do with the 15k monitor the radiologists use.
Id go with a consumer based machine, it makes sense to have something that your user base will basically use to view your work I think.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883229054
The memory used on workstations are in another world XD, of course they are more expensive, but you get more power than with consumer ones.
Workstations are aimed to work and it's something for serious work, and its processors have more perfomance than a silly consumer one. In 2 years, a consumer processor will have lost too much perfomance (the hours of use kills the computers). However, a xeon can be used on a basis of 24/7 and will offer almost as perfomance as the first day. You won't need to buy a new computer in a period of 5 years because a workstation is today something super solid and will offer you what you need to work without too much limits.
They are computers for different worlds and usages. If you want a computer to play aswell, consumer with no doubt. I ended buying a gamer computer because i was fatigued of so much work with 3d. Now i spent almost all my free time playing with the new computer for games ^^, to play with great resolutions all to the max, and great fps, it's unvaluable.
Of course, you can build a cheap workstation piece by piece, and taking in consideration that the most important thing is the graphic card for modelling. If you are going to do large size renders (1200dpi), you will need more mhz and a large amount of ram. A top quadcore, + quadro fx 3700 is less than 1500 euro in spain (ppl waste more than 2000 in a stupid pc only for gaming and they complains when they use Max ¬¬). A professional workstation is around 5000-6000+ euro, so here you got the difference ^^.
Don't know how Dell sells on your country, but sometimes they throw the house out the window, and you can buy a great workstation for a ridiculous price.
Making gameart, you won't need to waste too much money.
Only have in mind one thing, a quadro fx for work (a professional card in general), has no rival, it's in a different level. This is something i say you having wasted my money like an idiot in a consumer card. I have the lesson very well learned, and with the new gtx285 i bought is something i see again.
Better is alwyas more expensive, but if you need something, don't pay for what you really won't need. Actual computers offers too much power, and are enough fast to do almost all tasks. For serious tasks, serious computers ^^.
For modo, you could have a great computer for less than 500 euro ^^, and it would be excellent to zbrush aswell.
Ohh you paid more than me, and it's almost the same machine as mine for games.
I mounted mine piece by piece, with a Zotac gtx 285 Amp edition for less than 1000 euro and vista ultimate 64, (less than 1300 dollars). I thought the prices were cheaper in USA o.O
Anyways, you got a great computer!
My gaming results are excellent playing with 24"
that teached me that half the problems i had previously encountered in my 3d app (3ds max) on various machines over the years were actually to blame on shitty drivers and hardware. it's not the quadro either that seems to make all the difference. the ECC RAM and a power supply that isn't already running close to it's limits surely are a factor, too.
stuff like this you only appreciate after doing your job under pressure when you're in a situation where a failing system is directly linked to your output and your paycheck.
that no longer being the case, i now again get to use a consumer rig at work. it does a decent job at exposing all sorts of problems with max and maya and bluescreens under load once in a while... lovely!
Most workstation graphics cards are optimized for Open GL. Although they technically support Direct X, this is oftentimes pretty sketchy. Open GL pushes polygons like no one's business, but tends not to be so great at showing lots of textures and complex shaders.. To preview game-ready shaders you need DX. Consumer game cards are optimized for this type of work and play. Their support for OGL tends to be much poorer.
So, for complex modeling workstation cards might be great. But for texturing, setting up shaders, level work in the game engine, I'd tend to stick with a consumer gaming card.
bah, humbug, buy a better power supply then!
i just bought a new computer too, with I7 920 processor, 6gb of ram, and ATI 9800GT gfx card,
on 64 bit vista.
mobo required 600 watts, so i had to upgrade the installed PSU from 500 watt, to 650 watt.
its very responsive and haven't given me any major troubles so far.
i love this thing
going to upgrade it in about a years time or so with better ram and new GFX card.
so yeah id go the consumer root, once you get stuff set up right, i find things will run beutifully, and i have never had an issue with maya and dual screens unless you have two mayas open in which case you get direct x artefacts across the second screen(and serious performance drop) but having two open at a time is not an oft done thing
A good "consumer" rig will do both and be cheaper. We had IBM workstations for a while. Then we got an IT guy that let us choose our own pieces and all of a sudden no one complained about speed any more and the quality of work shot up. We keep a few of the old work stations around as part of a render farm...
Also with a rig you build, its easier to upgrade a little at a time, some more ram, a new video card. $50-500 dropped on upgrades can do wonders instead of out right buying a new system. You also aren't beholden to some large corp that never updates their drivers or only allows you to upgrade with their over priced hardware. They over price upgrades, so you think about buying a whole new system... nice...
You will be paying $50 a month for 2-5years for second rate hardware and have a huge chunk of your payments go to interest, just to have it now.
Instead save $50 for 18mo and get a better rig a little while from now. Nothing sucks worse then having to write a check every month for a system you hate and no longer use...