here I was expecting this killzone2 thread to focus on the arty farty side of the game, and have an intellectual discussion about polygons and normalmaps and whatever fagotry is popular these days in gaming.
instead, its the same fanboy flame-thread as on any other gamer forum.
will the real game developers, please stand up, please stand up~
Absolutely loved the game... right up until the last battle. (Played on Veteren difficulty.) Completely ruined the whole experience. I really don't think I will be playing again.
I am sick of being raped by these insecure game developers that have no way of feeling good about themselves unless they abuse their loyal customers. It's like these guys think they aren't good at their job unless they can create an unwinnable scenario. Is it really that hard to do? I have way more respect for a designer that can craft a challenging mission, rather than a near impossible one.
With KZ2 and SF4, that's two horrendous, game ruining boss battles in one week.
I give KZ2 a 2 out of 10. (Would have been a 9 out of 10)
I give KZ2 a 2 out of 10. (Would have been a 9 out of 10)
um, don't you think that's a little extreme? just because of the last boss? why not just stop right before him, then you can still consider it a '9'
I hate Seth as much as everyone else but hell if he ruins the SF4 experience for me. I don't ever have to deal with him online, and when I do he is not a threat anymore, due to taking more damage and doing less.
Nope. If you are on your last bite of Filet Mignon and find half of a tapeworm in it, do you think, "Well, the first part was good. Too bad about the filthy parasite. 9 ouy 10 stars!"
It literally ruined the entire experience. I went back and started a new campaign on easy, and I just couldn't bring myself to play.
I wouldn't call KZ2 a 2/10. I would say 7.5/10. Its average.
If we start saying games are the best thing ever just because of how they look, then its gonna be like Doom 3 all over again...
With the control lag, the boring gameplay and the fact it does nothing at all new other than fancy effects (Where the buffer is at half resolution, you can tell thats why they are so pixelated), this game is pretty much a big "Meh".
"If the input lag is indeed caused by a performance tradeoff they had to go for, the devs are in a tricky position ..."
This is what I think is going on.
During the making of video, the devs showed the performance stats of the game going on. During single player, only 2 cores are ever used. During MP, it does rise. So it is not a performance issue, it is a deliberate design choice. But feel free to continue to ignore every point that you don't agree with so you can continue to slam this game for no good reason.
and the fact it does nothing at all new other than fancy effects (Where the buffer is at half resolution, you can tell thats why they are so pixelated)
Killzone 2 has no pixelation in any form whatsoever, apart from some low-res textures apparently. And it actually feels completely different to any other FPS I have player for a while, because of some unusual choices they made (for better or worse) so that is also incorrect.
The particle buffer is rendered at half resolution so that it takes up less fillrate, thats how they can get so many effects on screen at one time. Its perfectly obvious in screenshots and ingame if you look, plus it was confirmed by the devs anyway. Its nothing bad, Time Shift did the same thing. Here are some pics proving my point:
And yes, it does have control lag. I have the game, I know the difference between input lag and simple "dead zone/feeling" changes, I had to work on the input for xbox 360 pads in our title, so I know what the difference is between "weight" and "lag". There are a million videos proving this on YouTube, but if you want to be the first to actually show us your copy has no lag, then please be my guest?
The game itself IS boring. Strip away the awesome graphics for a second and tell me something, anything, that it does that, say, Black on the original xbox did? Or anything for that matter? Just one? Its a good game, but its very average once you get past the amazing graphics.
What the hell am I supposed to be looking at? Awesome images? That's all I can see there. And no, it does not have controller lag, it is an intentional design choice. There are many videos about it on the youtube, all made by FPS twitch shooter players or 13 year old xbox fantards who went around to their mates houses with a video camera. No 'proving' going on there. Nothing to prove. It is intentional and does not negatively affect the game experience one iota.
The gameplay is not boring at all. I haven't played the single player as much as I should, but the MP is the best I have ever played in a game. Maps that are just the right size, a gameplay design that forces (and actually makes enjoyable) team gameplay. In other shooters I tend to play for myself, find it more fun that way, but working as part of a team in Killzone is so well done.
Flow is completely right, he nailed it on the head. Xbox fantards are so desperate that they are measuring frame buffers and counting frames, when it is not about fapping over frame counting videos on youtube, it is about the actual gameplay experience (sound, gameplay, graphics). For people who have actually played it and haven't played every single twitch FPS in the past 15 years, this is an amazing game, and it will be popular for a very long time, and there is nothing xbox fantards can do about it.
Do you see PS3 owners doing this to Halo, Halo Wars, Gears of War, and any other exclusive Xbox title? No, because we don't give a shit really. Fair play to Microsoft for having exclusives. But Xbox owners have to shit on ever single PS3 exclusive, trying to ruin it for everyone. This thread is for people who like the game to talk about the game, and we are not getting a chance to. The game looks and plays great, and that's that.
Do I see PS3 owners doing this... Yes, I do. All The time
Anyway, you are clearly a fanboy who seems to be missing the point, so I'm gonna stop replying to you now. If you don't get the controller lag then more power to you chap. But I don't know anybody i work with, or known anybody I am friends with, that DOESNT get it. So, like I say, more power to ya if your brain doesnt react quick enough to spot it.
Oh and BTW, I'm defo not a fan boy. I own all the machines, and Uncharted is in my top 5 games EVER list. So when I rag on Killzone its not because I want Sony to fail (lol), its because the game is generic as hell and it has SERIOUS controll issues, regardless of how pretty it is.
Graphics don't make a game, and its a shame a lot of Sony fanboys are buying into the hype that graphics = best game ever.
I love my PS3 and was anticipating months of KZ2 time. But sorry, this lag will be a deal breaker. It's strange that you can't even imagine how a reasonable person MIGHT find it annoying.
There's no xbox conspiracy here. I was similarly disappointed in GEARS2 when it took a full 10 minutes of waiting in a lobby before I could get into a game. That's another game that I was looking forward to playing a lot of multilayer with. But 10 minutes of lobby time is a deal breaker.
It absolutely does not. Maybe you are just shit at it? Although I did find the default controls horrible, so I switched to 'Alternative 2' in the menu.
Killzone 1 came out before Black if I am not mistaken. In fact, many people said Black was very similar to it. KZ2 is a sequel to KZ1, and plays as so (especially the scripted nature of the single player, which is one of my main gripes with the game) and does not take from Black at all. GG could just put in big explosions this time, that's all.
Can you answer this? Was the gameplay in Halo 2 any different than in Halo 1? No. Did it have major issues with normal maps, that loaded in a full second and a half later than everything else in the cut scenes (if you want to start talking about counting frames and buffers, surely I can too) and even sometimes in gameplay? Was the gameplay in Halo 3 any different to Halo 1 and 2? No. Did it look like, as people nicknamed it, Halo 2 HD, despite being on an entire new console to Halo 2? Yes. So I think it is pretty damn rich to critisize a sequel that took such a leap in general quality from one to the other.
Having said that, do I love Halo? Of course. Why? Because it is a great series, same as Killzone. Because I have no stupid misplaced unwanted loyalty to a plastic box with some chips inside.
lol, you really are out of this world... You compare the leap from Halo 1 o Halo 2, which was HUGE, and on the same console... To the leap from Killzone 1 which was made by newb devs with not much clue, to Killzone 2, a console with god knows how much power behind it, and devs that have a LOT of talent and help...
And you mentioned the slow loading of assets too... Well KZ2 does this as well. Have you never noticed models/surfaces load in slowly with stipple alpha...?
But I guess thats in my head as well, like the controls
Exactly. The network first party sony studios have is great. Is there 'controller lag' in any Insomniac or Naughty dog games? No. So if it WAS controller lag in KZ2...wouldn't they have been able to get help on that months ago? Yes.
You didn't answer half of my questions. Because you can't. Just thought I'd make that clear. I'm off to play Killzone 2 online now.
Very polished graphics, but a very average shooter that does nothing new and has crappy controls. Not for me! I just can't get into an unironic generic space marines game like this. I really don't understand that best game ever review i'm seeing everywhere. This is a generic shooter that takes absolutely no risks gameplay wise .
I heard that it's not "controller lag" so much as the sensitivity being horrible. i think someone else said it here already - it basically has two settings; so twitchy that you can't aim worth a damn at mid/long range, but can snap around in close-quarters, or such a massive dead zone and slow response that you can aim at distance, but will get caned close up. Seems like somewhat of an oversight to me.
the demo was great, unless it all goes down from there it's Gears of War for the PS3. I haven't played GoW2 so I can't compare but Killzone 2 had more of a hectic warzone feel to it.
I haven't played GoW2 yet myself, but I hear its much much better than GoW1, which I hated. Killzone 2 does have its calmer moments, its not all like that first level...and I guess those big war moments are more fun. But I am only on mission 3 I think...will play more of the single player tonight.
I heard that it's not "controller lag" so much as the sensitivity being horrible. i think someone else said it here already - it basically has two settings; so twitchy that you can't aim worth a damn at mid/long range, but can snap around in close-quarters, or such a massive dead zone and slow response that you can aim at distance, but will get caned close up. Seems like somewhat of an oversight to me.
Well if it WAS that, it would be a simple fix because it would be the devs at fault, right...?
But that wouldn't explain why the menu system/title screen/inventory/movement etc all have the same delay...
I mean, fair enough, lets say they DID add a delay, for whatever insane reason... But why would they add it to the menu as well, when there isnt even a game running in the background...?
KillZone 2 is awesome. I love that opening where you go around the corner and those helghast soldiers are standing up on the crate shooting at the ISA troops. It's by far the best looking console shooter out there. But for pwning bitches online with my shotgun, COD4 > KZ2.
I guess in the future everyone is constantly shitfaced so their reaction time is slower.
I do however agree that the whole controller .. um, movement? feels awkward, even after playing for several hours. I would have preferred if they stuck to something like CoD4, which felt perfect, or even halo. Just something where I felt like I was in control, instead of pressing to move, it taking a half second, then overshooting, then correcting, etc. It's just uncomfortable. and yes, some parts of the action do feel a bit boring when it's such a hassle to shoot. You can't even run and turn around without it being an issue.
again, it's still a beautiful game, just has some minor issues that make it difficult to love.
Why would anyone 'fix' what they intended all along?
It's called 'loading'.
Loading the next option on the menu when pressing up/down, each time taking the exact same duration as the lag ingame when firing/moving etc...?
Now I "KNOW" you are trolling...
Come on man, this game COULD be good. Yeah the SP is dull as Paris Hilton on a weekend away in Scotland but the MP could be fun, if they sorted the control...
Just to pour gasoline on the fire:
A quote by Sony's Kaz Hirai on cnet. Not sure if that's taken out of context (which would've had to have happened in translation, because reading on from this comment, he continues along the same lines)
"We don't provide the 'easy to program for' console that (developers) want, because 'easy to program for' means that anybody will be able to take advantage of pretty much what the hardware can do, so then the question is, what do you do for the rest of the nine-and-a-half years?" explained Hirai.
lol... That guy cracks me up. I mean people tell me that my mouth runs off with me sometimes, but that guy, he is PAID to give a good image and he makes me look like a Scientist Saint...
The easier the console is to develop, the more you can unlock from it, and the more tricks you can get from the system. I'm not even a coder and I know that. What Kaz and Sony in general don't seem to understand is that its ok for Sony to "unlock" the power of the PS3 over 10 years, but what third party is honestly going to care enough to have to figure out such a mess when the 360, and this isn't a fanboy comment its fact, sells MORE of everything anyway...?
Very strange company they are... They used to own, so badly... Now they are just a laughing stock.
KillZone 2 is awesome. I love that opening where you go around the corner and those helghast soldiers are standing up on the crate shooting at the ISA troops. It's by far the best looking console shooter out there. But for pwning bitches online with my shotgun, COD4 > KZ2.
I guess in the future everyone is constantly shitfaced so their reaction time is slower.
I got a suggestion for you. If you want to play a game that is like COD4........can you fill in the rest?
Oh and odium, you are the troll. And you have yet to answer any of the questions I asked by the way.
It's not about being like COD4. LIke I said, a dozen times now, This game is spectacular. Everything about it is perfect.... except for the input lag. And that is a deal breaker for an otherwise flawless game.
now that we've talked about the input lag, and clearly this is like global warming where you can believe in it or not based on your sensibilities, lets move onto "slow controls."
They're bullshit and I'll tell you why:
I can turn my head almost instantly in real life. I can do that with a helmet on too. In a shooter your head is tied to your gun. So while it might be "unrealistic" to allow people to quickly point their gun everywhere there's not much better way to do it with current FPS models. Maybe if you had your head separate from your gun it could be done. Basically its hard to achieve situational awareness if you can't quickly look around.
Besides what is next? How about a realistic mini game where you learn to tie your shoes with no arms after you get back from the war?
I actually answered everything that made any difference, if you check.
Haha. In other words, you answered what questions SUITED you. Go on. Grow a fucking pair, and answer everyone of my questions about Uncharted, the Halo 2 normal map issues, the sweet fuck all difference in graphical quality between 2 and 3 despite the jump to a new console...etc. Go on. Try and be a man, and answer the questions I originally posted.
Blenderhead, I'm not a medical doctor, but I prescribe some sex. Lots and lots of it. Because like all the other Sony fan girls out there, you REALLY sound like you could do with some.
OK, time to take it outside. Odium and blenderhead, if you plan to continue the discussion between you two, please take it to PM or email or something else besides this thread. Thanks.
i loved the animations and particle effects, but thats about it.. pretty boring experience, no real story, horrible AI, your allies always get in your direct path, ragdolls are choppy, non-fluidic. Animation/ragdoll mix, lacks momentum. It stands out alot. environments are a series of rubble piles, very well done but yeah, rubble piles.
Replies
instead, its the same fanboy flame-thread as on any other gamer forum.
will the real game developers, please stand up, please stand up~
I am sick of being raped by these insecure game developers that have no way of feeling good about themselves unless they abuse their loyal customers. It's like these guys think they aren't good at their job unless they can create an unwinnable scenario. Is it really that hard to do? I have way more respect for a designer that can craft a challenging mission, rather than a near impossible one.
With KZ2 and SF4, that's two horrendous, game ruining boss battles in one week.
I give KZ2 a 2 out of 10. (Would have been a 9 out of 10)
um, don't you think that's a little extreme? just because of the last boss? why not just stop right before him, then you can still consider it a '9'
I hate Seth as much as everyone else but hell if he ruins the SF4 experience for me. I don't ever have to deal with him online, and when I do he is not a threat anymore, due to taking more damage and doing less.
Nope. If you are on your last bite of Filet Mignon and find half of a tapeworm in it, do you think, "Well, the first part was good. Too bad about the filthy parasite. 9 ouy 10 stars!"
It literally ruined the entire experience. I went back and started a new campaign on easy, and I just couldn't bring myself to play.
If we start saying games are the best thing ever just because of how they look, then its gonna be like Doom 3 all over again...
With the control lag, the boring gameplay and the fact it does nothing at all new other than fancy effects (Where the buffer is at half resolution, you can tell thats why they are so pixelated), this game is pretty much a big "Meh".
Its not bad, but its not good. Its just "There".
During the making of video, the devs showed the performance stats of the game going on. During single player, only 2 cores are ever used. During MP, it does rise. So it is not a performance issue, it is a deliberate design choice. But feel free to continue to ignore every point that you don't agree with so you can continue to slam this game for no good reason.
Killzone 2 doesn't have any controller lag.
Killzone 2 does not have any boring gameplay.
Killzone 2 has no pixelation in any form whatsoever, apart from some low-res textures apparently. And it actually feels completely different to any other FPS I have player for a while, because of some unusual choices they made (for better or worse) so that is also incorrect.
The particle buffer is rendered at half resolution so that it takes up less fillrate, thats how they can get so many effects on screen at one time. Its perfectly obvious in screenshots and ingame if you look, plus it was confirmed by the devs anyway. Its nothing bad, Time Shift did the same thing. Here are some pics proving my point:
http://www.threespeech.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/5_0012.jpg
http://www.threespeech.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/LARGE_Intruder_Takeoff.jpg
http://www.threespeech.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/1_0008.jpg
Best Pic for it:
http://ps3media.ign.com/ps3/image/article/871/871951/killzone-2-20080506020316134.jpg
And yes, it does have control lag. I have the game, I know the difference between input lag and simple "dead zone/feeling" changes, I had to work on the input for xbox 360 pads in our title, so I know what the difference is between "weight" and "lag". There are a million videos proving this on YouTube, but if you want to be the first to actually show us your copy has no lag, then please be my guest?
The game itself IS boring. Strip away the awesome graphics for a second and tell me something, anything, that it does that, say, Black on the original xbox did? Or anything for that matter? Just one? Its a good game, but its very average once you get past the amazing graphics.
The gameplay is not boring at all. I haven't played the single player as much as I should, but the MP is the best I have ever played in a game. Maps that are just the right size, a gameplay design that forces (and actually makes enjoyable) team gameplay. In other shooters I tend to play for myself, find it more fun that way, but working as part of a team in Killzone is so well done.
Flow is completely right, he nailed it on the head. Xbox fantards are so desperate that they are measuring frame buffers and counting frames, when it is not about fapping over frame counting videos on youtube, it is about the actual gameplay experience (sound, gameplay, graphics). For people who have actually played it and haven't played every single twitch FPS in the past 15 years, this is an amazing game, and it will be popular for a very long time, and there is nothing xbox fantards can do about it.
Do you see PS3 owners doing this to Halo, Halo Wars, Gears of War, and any other exclusive Xbox title? No, because we don't give a shit really. Fair play to Microsoft for having exclusives. But Xbox owners have to shit on ever single PS3 exclusive, trying to ruin it for everyone. This thread is for people who like the game to talk about the game, and we are not getting a chance to. The game looks and plays great, and that's that.
Anyway, you are clearly a fanboy who seems to be missing the point, so I'm gonna stop replying to you now. If you don't get the controller lag then more power to you chap. But I don't know anybody i work with, or known anybody I am friends with, that DOESNT get it. So, like I say, more power to ya if your brain doesnt react quick enough to spot it.
Oh and BTW, I'm defo not a fan boy. I own all the machines, and Uncharted is in my top 5 games EVER list. So when I rag on Killzone its not because I want Sony to fail (lol), its because the game is generic as hell and it has SERIOUS controll issues, regardless of how pretty it is.
Graphics don't make a game, and its a shame a lot of Sony fanboys are buying into the hype that graphics = best game ever.
You and Odium are painful to watch.
I love my PS3 and was anticipating months of KZ2 time. But sorry, this lag will be a deal breaker. It's strange that you can't even imagine how a reasonable person MIGHT find it annoying.
There's no xbox conspiracy here. I was similarly disappointed in GEARS2 when it took a full 10 minutes of waiting in a lobby before I could get into a game. That's another game that I was looking forward to playing a lot of multilayer with. But 10 minutes of lobby time is a deal breaker.
No you don't. I have been on numerous forums for years and never seen it.
The last thing in the world I am is a Sony fanboy. The last thing. And you don't have a point.
No one get's controller lag. It is an intentional gameplay design choice.
You truly have a horrendous taste in games. What does Uncharted do that Gears of War didn't before it?
Like...Uncharted? lol
It absolutely does not. Maybe you are just shit at it? Although I did find the default controls horrible, so I switched to 'Alternative 2' in the menu.
Killzone 1 came out before Black if I am not mistaken. In fact, many people said Black was very similar to it. KZ2 is a sequel to KZ1, and plays as so (especially the scripted nature of the single player, which is one of my main gripes with the game) and does not take from Black at all. GG could just put in big explosions this time, that's all.
Can you answer this? Was the gameplay in Halo 2 any different than in Halo 1? No. Did it have major issues with normal maps, that loaded in a full second and a half later than everything else in the cut scenes (if you want to start talking about counting frames and buffers, surely I can too) and even sometimes in gameplay? Was the gameplay in Halo 3 any different to Halo 1 and 2? No. Did it look like, as people nicknamed it, Halo 2 HD, despite being on an entire new console to Halo 2? Yes. So I think it is pretty damn rich to critisize a sequel that took such a leap in general quality from one to the other.
Having said that, do I love Halo? Of course. Why? Because it is a great series, same as Killzone. Because I have no stupid misplaced unwanted loyalty to a plastic box with some chips inside.
Who is forcing you?
And you mentioned the slow loading of assets too... Well KZ2 does this as well. Have you never noticed models/surfaces load in slowly with stipple alpha...?
But I guess thats in my head as well, like the controls
EDIT: Why am I even replying lol?
Exactly. The network first party sony studios have is great. Is there 'controller lag' in any Insomniac or Naughty dog games? No. So if it WAS controller lag in KZ2...wouldn't they have been able to get help on that months ago? Yes.
You didn't answer half of my questions. Because you can't. Just thought I'd make that clear. I'm off to play Killzone 2 online now.
Who's denying it? Also, it's five frames later, not half a second.
Well if it WAS that, it would be a simple fix because it would be the devs at fault, right...?
But that wouldn't explain why the menu system/title screen/inventory/movement etc all have the same delay...
I mean, fair enough, lets say they DID add a delay, for whatever insane reason... But why would they add it to the menu as well, when there isnt even a game running in the background...?
Boggles the mind I tell thee Kes...
I guess in the future everyone is constantly shitfaced so their reaction time is slower.
Why would anyone 'fix' what they intended all along?
It's called 'loading'.
I do however agree that the whole controller .. um, movement? feels awkward, even after playing for several hours. I would have preferred if they stuck to something like CoD4, which felt perfect, or even halo. Just something where I felt like I was in control, instead of pressing to move, it taking a half second, then overshooting, then correcting, etc. It's just uncomfortable. and yes, some parts of the action do feel a bit boring when it's such a hassle to shoot. You can't even run and turn around without it being an issue.
again, it's still a beautiful game, just has some minor issues that make it difficult to love.
Loading the next option on the menu when pressing up/down, each time taking the exact same duration as the lag ingame when firing/moving etc...?
Now I "KNOW" you are trolling...
Come on man, this game COULD be good. Yeah the SP is dull as Paris Hilton on a weekend away in Scotland but the MP could be fun, if they sorted the control...
A quote by Sony's Kaz Hirai on cnet. Not sure if that's taken out of context (which would've had to have happened in translation, because reading on from this comment, he continues along the same lines)
The easier the console is to develop, the more you can unlock from it, and the more tricks you can get from the system. I'm not even a coder and I know that. What Kaz and Sony in general don't seem to understand is that its ok for Sony to "unlock" the power of the PS3 over 10 years, but what third party is honestly going to care enough to have to figure out such a mess when the 360, and this isn't a fanboy comment its fact, sells MORE of everything anyway...?
Very strange company they are... They used to own, so badly... Now they are just a laughing stock.
On average, I run about 40-20 kill/death...Like I said before the little lag just makes me lead a little bit...
I got a top 6 percent badge!
LOL @ that /\ I traded in CoD4 for Little Big Planet...
I got a suggestion for you. If you want to play a game that is like COD4........can you fill in the rest?
Oh and odium, you are the troll. And you have yet to answer any of the questions I asked by the way.
EDIT: In fact, looking over the post there is one issue I never answered, and that was what was so different about H3 over H2...
Well, you mean apart from recording demos? Taking screenshots? Building your own levels? Party and clan systems? First 4 player online coop?
Oh nothing at all...
now that we've talked about the input lag, and clearly this is like global warming where you can believe in it or not based on your sensibilities, lets move onto "slow controls."
They're bullshit and I'll tell you why:
I can turn my head almost instantly in real life. I can do that with a helmet on too. In a shooter your head is tied to your gun. So while it might be "unrealistic" to allow people to quickly point their gun everywhere there's not much better way to do it with current FPS models. Maybe if you had your head separate from your gun it could be done. Basically its hard to achieve situational awareness if you can't quickly look around.
Besides what is next? How about a realistic mini game where you learn to tie your shoes with no arms after you get back from the war?
EUROPEANS like THIS GUY!!!
controller issues:
“We have not stopped looking into the complaints and will see what we can do about it.”
This is why we have to keep complaining. They might just fix it.
Haha. In other words, you answered what questions SUITED you. Go on. Grow a fucking pair, and answer everyone of my questions about Uncharted, the Halo 2 normal map issues, the sweet fuck all difference in graphical quality between 2 and 3 despite the jump to a new console...etc. Go on. Try and be a man, and answer the questions I originally posted.
Who says it is the button lag? Could be the control schemes?
I made a polycount clan.
PSN: Cojaxx
Clan Name: Polycount
Clan Tag: -PC-
i give it 3 mehs,
I lol`d
I played it, it owns, im still waiting for my copy...
Im in it for the multiplayer
PSN: Thewinterlord
Europe, have headset and some buddies at work to play with.
I will post my thoughts later perhaps...
Ok continue arguing;
ps3 is teh shit.