pior, that was only a few second drag and pulls in the interface, removed a few windows so that the main viewport took up most of the space, but kept the toolbar on the left, you can change it all you like.
It's worth pointing out that you can also 'maximise' one screen by hovering over it and pressing Shift+Space.
Also note that in the top header, where it says Default, you can just create your own layout and save it. Personally, I never use the Timeline or Outliner, and I'd really rather not have the tool shelf and that transformations stuff, so I got rid of 'm and saved a Zwebbie layout. It also starts looking top down, because I find that to be easier.
I've also created a Hotkey Editing layout, with the User Preferences on the left and a 3D window to test on the right. Handy!
* We still need a good list of release targets for the next release (2.5 beta 1). Ton will ask Matt to add that on his todo for this week.
* Targets should be related to the 2.5 project in general. That's for example specs for keymaps, keymaps themselves, themes, final button layouts, properties and tools naming, toolbar configurations, installation procedures, and parts of the python API (for UI, import/export).
* Official module maintainer list has to be refreshed. Thomas Dinges volunteers, will do this in wiki during the next week, and comes back next meeting.
* Andrea will work on file/image browser, and do Sequencer fixes. (Campbell declared Sequencer "prohibitively broken" after seeing Colin use it here .
* Campbell mentions other topics that need decisions or work: Pything class caching for faster startup, what to do with TexFace.
* Martin works further on proper methods to use Macros in 2.5
Other current projects
* BMesh progresses, but slowly at the moment. Joe thinks it's at 90% now, but "last 10% is hardest and will involve other developers like Brecht and/or Matt". He is also looking into a rubust Mesh Node system.
* New sculpt with disk-cached multires is being tested now. It performs great, needs some bugfixing still. Brecht will work on it soon.
* Joe does a warm but urgent request to seriously evaluate his DSM (deep shadow map) code, especially for the hair shadow case.
I’ve decided not to stop working on bmesh. I’ve done some more work on it; fixed a few bugs, merged recent changes from trunk into the branch, and I’m tackling edge slide (which is turning out to be quite hard to do correctly, but should work great when I’m done).
I’m planning to have bmesh in trunk by march of next year (or the third 2.5 release, whichever comes first). This is a more then generous timeline, imho, and is achievable for me. I’ve also had several new developers show interest in the project, and of course Wael has been very helpful.
I’m committed to finishing this project; I love modeling, and I can’t stand the old toolset (after using decent modeling tools in an ngon modeler, it’s hard to go back). I don’t want to see this part of blender stuck in the 90s anymore.
Seems like there's a bit of interest in Blender 2.5 lately so I figured I'd bump this thread up with a couple of interesting items I've found over the past few days.
Even though the version is epic, and the interface is extremely user-friendly. They still need to update their damn user menual. >.< Otherwize I will have to stick with the older version and keep on going over everything until I am used to them.
Or rely on ralusek and hope he covers everything. <.<
*PS: I wonder if its worth buying the blender book that is on their site along with the new tutorial-video that is about to come out soonish...(well it says pre-order)*
Yeah I saw loop tools, very cool reminds me of polyboost for Max. It's not updated for Blender 2.5 yet (kind of confusing because his script is called LoopTools 2.5). The developer seems to be waiting for bmesh to get integrated which is probably a good idea.
I'm trying to add switch to rotate to the View3d Move Modal, but the keymap editor is not very user friendly and i'm not finding any relevant documentation.
I'm disappointed with key customisation in 2.5, i thought we could REALLy change keys the way we want, in fact you can't get rid of that barbarish ctrl+tab thing to make filter shortcuts... I can't work like that, i'm waiting for bmesh, but if this is not changed into final version i won't switch. Sad, cause the app is going to be really complete by the looks of the alphas.
Man they have improved a lot since I stopped using Blender... They need a full time person just to update docs though. I think that's why a lot of people are frustrated when they try to use it. It has it's bad spots, but it's pretty solid once you learn the workflow.
beatkitano, i'm not exactly sure what you're trying to achieve, please clarify.
fortunately, even if i'm not able to help you, there's ultimately going to be nobody to blame but yourself for any shortcomings you find in the open source world. either take what's given to you, don't take it at all, or ideally, fix the problems yourself.
and to say that an Alpha state is "not early" to determine whether a function is working as intended is kind of crazy, but apparently you're quite eager to pass judgment
YEah, sure i may sound a bit harsh but the thing is, they implemented a shortcut editor thingy, but didn't allow for extra customization for some things, and the way its done it's clearly not planned.
Since the beginning of this thread i'm waiting for a way to make selection for verts/face/edge with custom shortkeys (and its available in almost all 3d package and a basic "feature") and all the community is giving is "THE FAMOUS CTRL+TAB RETARDED HOTKEY"...
Sure I shouldn't complain its free, its "given", but the fact is they say they will let you have your own shortcuts, but... no.
That surely doesn't help me get into the blender wagon, once again I have a case of "stupid programmer hardcoded habits" which is what I always criticized in blender and unfortunately 2.5 doesn't seem to fix that.
For me its as smart as having photoshop cs4 and the only way to select my tools was to click on a drop down menu and select because nobody thought it would be cool to be able to have shortcuts for it. (and yeah i know i could do ctrt+tab+1/2/3 but that's just too slow)
Well as he already said, you can wait for someone to do it or take some initiative yourself. The key/mouse customization has begun and it's already better than what max, maya or xsi have even in its alpha state. You could get bindable keys for that stuff in blender if you do a little python scripting yourself if you REALLY want it now. I already asked if this was possible on the blenderartist forums and it is. Unlike you though, I prefer to dig into the python myself to fix that same issue rather than wait, and complain. Meantime, binding that menu to my thumb button until I can get the python scripting I need done, is already better than using ctrl+tab.
Well, I bet it will not be done officially, and the purpose of this ui overhaul (giving more accessibility to blender and making people switch to blender) is failing.
I'm not a programmer, i used to make things in c++ as an hobby, but that was a long time ago, and it was just a hobby.
I thought maybe a 3d package is for making 3d not coding in a language i never touched, I don't want some new features that aren't integrated in the software like some mel script or something, i just want to be able to customise something already there (shortcut editor+code to associate)... blender.org presented 2.5 to be totaly key map able.
I came to see 2.5 thinking that maybe this time they learned and where making a move forward for average users, and I (many others) would not crit blender anymore for its poor ergonomics choice. I guess I were wrong. History repeats itself, blender, a tool for programmers...
No. And there's a lot of example like that, even conflict between the old "3 mouse button emulation" and the mouse association with shortcuts.
I've the feeling they want to keep the fixed/static function of blender 2.4x, to not lose the old blender users ,with the new customizable shortcuts and it doesn't mix well.
I guess that's where I see it differently. It is becoming more accessible, not just for programmers, but for everyone. I'm certainly no programmer either, nor do I want to be. But I like where blender is going - even in its alpha state. They are opening it up to the user in a way that is not possible in autodesk apps yet. That takes time. You might do better to just not bother with it until its official release if alpha builds are not to your liking. It's community driven software development, so seeing it with its pants down is part of the process, unlike with commercial software.
If something so specific is really a big issue for you then you would do much better asking why it isn't possible over there. Calling it a failure here does nothing for you, especially when it is still very much a WIP. Pulling commands from menus may already be in the cards as part of the customization push, but because it is only in an alpha state, and you haven't paid a dime for it, you can hardly expect anyone to have sympathy for your issue - especially if they don't even know about it. This is where jumping into the community can help. I spoke up in a similar situation on blenderartists forums over double clicking. There were no plans to include it, and yet all it took was a thread discussing why it was important and someone added it in the next build - not because of me, but because of the users hashing it out and convincing a programmer it was worthwhile.
The fact that it IS possible to pull commands from menus already with python tells me that it will be possible at some point, either natively, through the UI or when someone releases a script for just that purpose - which, will be able to be called through the UI and be as transparent as any direct implementation anyway. More than likely this is exactly how it will work regardless of who does it. The user won't care because it would just be a simple matter of binding the script to a key or mouse button, like any native command.
The whole point of the UI refactor is for ergonomics. Not just for blender die hards, but anyone who wants to use it and work the way they want to work. That's a much more ambitious goal than something as retarded and limited as a fancy new ribbon added to the GUI wouldn't you say? And yet people are willing to pay for that and have no choice but to like it. I'm sill waiting on ANY sort of mouse customization to happen in max after all these years.
Well, I bet it will not be done officially, and the purpose of this ui overhaul (giving more accessibility to blender and making people switch to blender) is failing.
I'm not a programmer, i used to make things in c++ as an hobby, but that was a long time ago, and it was just a hobby.
I thought maybe a 3d package is for making 3d not coding in a language i never touched, I don't want some new features that aren't integrated in the software like some mel script or something, i just want to be able to customise something already there (shortcut editor+code to associate)... blender.org presented 2.5 to be totaly key map able.
I came to see 2.5 thinking that maybe this time they learned and where making a move forward for average users, and I (many others) would not crit blender anymore for its poor ergonomics choice. I guess I were wrong. History repeats itself, blender, a tool for programmers...
YEah, sure i may sound a bit harsh but the thing is, they implemented a shortcut editor thingy, but didn't allow for extra customization for some things, and the way its done it's clearly not planned.
Since the beginning of this thread i'm waiting for a way to make selection for verts/face/edge with custom shortkeys (and its available in almost all 3d package and a basic "feature") and all the community is giving is "THE FAMOUS CTRL+TAB RETARDED HOTKEY"...
...
It might not be what you are looking for but you can Shift Click the Vert/Edge/Face mode icons so that everything is selectable in the view port all the time.
Its the same with the Translate/Rotate/Scale widgets too.
BTW James Edwards i was not talking about ui customization but just shortcuts. No autodesk product you say ? : maya 2011, simple, even for artists, and totally customizable. And for the record i didn't want to compare blender to commercial apps, you did.
BTW James Edwards i was not talking about ui customization but just shortcuts. No autodesk product you say ? : maya 2011, simple, even for artists, and totally customizable. And for the record i didn't want to compare blender to commercial apps, you did.
Orly?
Since the beginning of this thread i'm waiting for a way to make selection for verts/face/edge with custom shortkeys (and its available in almost all 3d package and a basic "feature") and all the community is giving is "THE FAMOUS CTRL+TAB RETARDED HOTKEY"...
You weren't specific and didn't name any products but that seemed like a fairly straight up comparison to me. Anyway, how can you NOT compare blender with commercial apps? It's the only free 3d app with a feature set on par with commercial apps. There's nothing else to compare it to. Even your expectation to customize shortcuts in the above quote, and subsequent complaint is based on your experience with other apps, which is comparison, no?
Mouse is just another form of input like the keyboard, so shortcuts kinda refers to both. Shortcuts are UI. This discussion is based on the fact that you wanted to customize that so you could make blender work like other (commercial) apps. You couldn't, so you complained, and here we are.
Maya 2011 has only JUST been announced. It's not even out yet. I was kinda referring to apps that actually exist and what they can do RIGHT NOW. I haven't even seen any promotional material yet on whether it has full mouse customization (I hope you were referring to that when you said 'fully customizable', otherwise why bring it up?) All I've seen is that it is based on QT, which opens it up for lots of customization... great, but mouse input specifically? Enlighten me. I'd love it if this were possible. (not being sarcastic either, I really would love it!)
Replies
I think it will be as easy as just downloading a preference file.
Also note that in the top header, where it says Default, you can just create your own layout and save it. Personally, I never use the Timeline or Outliner, and I'd really rather not have the tool shelf and that transformations stuff, so I got rid of 'm and saved a Zwebbie layout. It also starts looking top down, because I find that to be easier.
I've also created a Hotkey Editing layout, with the User Preferences on the left and a 3D window to test on the right. Handy!
Arrays Sketching
and
Projection Painting
[ame]
Or rely on ralusek and hope he covers everything. <.<
*PS: I wonder if its worth buying the blender book that is on their site along with the new tutorial-video that is about to come out soonish...(well it says pre-order)*
Customizable my ass ! XD
Why are you doing it from the script? Just change them from the UI.
Guess it's a bit early to upgrade...
fortunately, even if i'm not able to help you, there's ultimately going to be nobody to blame but yourself for any shortcomings you find in the open source world. either take what's given to you, don't take it at all, or ideally, fix the problems yourself.
and to say that an Alpha state is "not early" to determine whether a function is working as intended is kind of crazy, but apparently you're quite eager to pass judgment
Since the beginning of this thread i'm waiting for a way to make selection for verts/face/edge with custom shortkeys (and its available in almost all 3d package and a basic "feature") and all the community is giving is "THE FAMOUS CTRL+TAB RETARDED HOTKEY"...
Sure I shouldn't complain its free, its "given", but the fact is they say they will let you have your own shortcuts, but... no.
That surely doesn't help me get into the blender wagon, once again I have a case of "stupid programmer hardcoded habits" which is what I always criticized in blender and unfortunately 2.5 doesn't seem to fix that.
For me its as smart as having photoshop cs4 and the only way to select my tools was to click on a drop down menu and select because nobody thought it would be cool to be able to have shortcuts for it. (and yeah i know i could do ctrt+tab+1/2/3 but that's just too slow)
I'm not a programmer, i used to make things in c++ as an hobby, but that was a long time ago, and it was just a hobby.
I thought maybe a 3d package is for making 3d not coding in a language i never touched, I don't want some new features that aren't integrated in the software like some mel script or something, i just want to be able to customise something already there (shortcut editor+code to associate)... blender.org presented 2.5 to be totaly key map able.
I came to see 2.5 thinking that maybe this time they learned and where making a move forward for average users, and I (many others) would not crit blender anymore for its poor ergonomics choice. I guess I were wrong. History repeats itself, blender, a tool for programmers...
I'm trying to add switch to rotate to the View3d Move Modal, is there a way to change it from the ui?
I've the feeling they want to keep the fixed/static function of blender 2.4x, to not lose the old blender users ,with the new customizable shortcuts and it doesn't mix well.
does 2.5 have a decent collada export in there yet? (ie, with an options dialogue)
If something so specific is really a big issue for you then you would do much better asking why it isn't possible over there. Calling it a failure here does nothing for you, especially when it is still very much a WIP. Pulling commands from menus may already be in the cards as part of the customization push, but because it is only in an alpha state, and you haven't paid a dime for it, you can hardly expect anyone to have sympathy for your issue - especially if they don't even know about it. This is where jumping into the community can help. I spoke up in a similar situation on blenderartists forums over double clicking. There were no plans to include it, and yet all it took was a thread discussing why it was important and someone added it in the next build - not because of me, but because of the users hashing it out and convincing a programmer it was worthwhile.
The fact that it IS possible to pull commands from menus already with python tells me that it will be possible at some point, either natively, through the UI or when someone releases a script for just that purpose - which, will be able to be called through the UI and be as transparent as any direct implementation anyway. More than likely this is exactly how it will work regardless of who does it. The user won't care because it would just be a simple matter of binding the script to a key or mouse button, like any native command.
The whole point of the UI refactor is for ergonomics. Not just for blender die hards, but anyone who wants to use it and work the way they want to work. That's a much more ambitious goal than something as retarded and limited as a fancy new ribbon added to the GUI wouldn't you say? And yet people are willing to pay for that and have no choice but to like it. I'm sill waiting on ANY sort of mouse customization to happen in max after all these years.
It might not be what you are looking for but you can Shift Click the Vert/Edge/Face mode icons so that everything is selectable in the view port all the time.
Its the same with the Translate/Rotate/Scale widgets too.
Maybe that will ease your pain a little :P
BTW James Edwards i was not talking about ui customization but just shortcuts. No autodesk product you say ? : maya 2011, simple, even for artists, and totally customizable. And for the record i didn't want to compare blender to commercial apps, you did.
Awesome! Glad its helping
Orly?
You weren't specific and didn't name any products but that seemed like a fairly straight up comparison to me. Anyway, how can you NOT compare blender with commercial apps? It's the only free 3d app with a feature set on par with commercial apps. There's nothing else to compare it to. Even your expectation to customize shortcuts in the above quote, and subsequent complaint is based on your experience with other apps, which is comparison, no?
Mouse is just another form of input like the keyboard, so shortcuts kinda refers to both. Shortcuts are UI. This discussion is based on the fact that you wanted to customize that so you could make blender work like other (commercial) apps. You couldn't, so you complained, and here we are.
Maya 2011 has only JUST been announced. It's not even out yet. I was kinda referring to apps that actually exist and what they can do RIGHT NOW. I haven't even seen any promotional material yet on whether it has full mouse customization (I hope you were referring to that when you said 'fully customizable', otherwise why bring it up?) All I've seen is that it is based on QT, which opens it up for lots of customization... great, but mouse input specifically? Enlighten me. I'd love it if this were possible. (not being sarcastic either, I really would love it!)