Heh, yea might need to have the 2nd spawn dump right into the battlements (great even more like 2 fort ha!). I'll probably open up the area under the smoke stack, drop in a few long wide windows and give the snipers a place to hang out.
I've been watching the demo recording of the play test and its pretty awesome, its like you're spectating the game as its going on, amazing to get feedback, better then playing. But its clear the signage and the lighting need a lot of work to help people get their barrings. But once people settled in and ran around it once or twice they got down to business.
Don't mind at all, very helpful, especially about the ramp that's going in asap.
1) I'm in the process of moving the 2nd spawn base. I've moved it around the corner where the health/hatch are at to the left of your screen shot. On the opposite wall I put Intel/Exit signs.
2) There where signs there at one point, but I moved the wall forward and now they're hidden... they'll be back asap. Same story with the signs in the bunk room spawn which where missing in this build also (instead of battlements that will read exit).
3) The twist/turns are for two reasons, to block outside or inside zones from rendering when they shouldn't. Or they are moving around other rooms. In the case of other rooms they can be pushed back to straighten out the bendy hallways, I'll see what I can do about that. That complaint popped up a few times.
4) Good idea, but I have to no-clip the planes so they're inaccessible. Crazy demo's and snipers keep crawling back there, turns out you can slowly walk up the wing or something...
5) Blue props in the red base, yea that's on the list, they're place holder until I get the red props made. I'll probably just make a red texture variant for the blu props. Just to use until I get the meshes made and textured.
Whoa! Good stuff! This gets my vote for the next community map pack for sure. Looking over this is making me really want to build that underground volcano-lair map I've been thinking of doing.
This looks like a totally official map Vig! Great execution of details and keeping with the theme. (as many others have already said...just adding that glorious encouragement fuel to the fire.)
When do you think the next build of the map will be ready for playtesting?
I finished off the blue base (Finally!) and over the weekend I flipped the core base and started detailing the red side. Right now its functional and optimized, just not 100% detailed on the red side. But I decided to do another release (see link below) before the final to make sure the changes I did work like they should.
Any suggestions, crits and comments are always welcome.
Enclosed the sniper deck, gave them a little more cover and a bit of a higher perch.
This is the Red Team spawn room. Still some details to add but its getting there.
Blue Intel room. Added 2 sets of stairs, one is seen here (everyone can use it) the second is team specific and leads back to the 2nd spawn.
The Generators.
Added portholes and a lot of misc detailing to the blue base.
Whats left to do:
- Finish off the 3D details in the skybox as well as revisit the 2D skybox.
- Redo the Cannery logo and come up with a few cannary posters.
- Build a 3-4 more props for the red base, crates of ice, fish and stacks of cans.
- Trim out and red base and add various details.
- Do soundscapes and particles.
- Figure out why the cannary sign coughs up pink smoke...
I've put together some crits on a big img..
so I'm just linking it here
just visual crits.. some more important than others.. just run around an made some shots
some additional stuff:
maybe add some shader stuff to the ice blocks.. they look not really icy atm
it would be cool to have some bulleyes to look out from the ship.. would increase the feeling of "I'm on a ship"
and I think there are still too dark spots where they shouldn't be (on deck some corners) bit of fake GI would be cool (however this would be done)
Ahh good points Rollin, some are easier to fix than others but all are great finds. Thanks!
1) I kind of had plans for that hole, It was another doorway that improved the flow, but caused portal issues. I had kind of forgotten about it, so thanks! I'll be sure to remove it.
2) Ha... opps.
3) Looks like more custom props to me? I made those stairs as copies of the ones in 2 fort, in the sewers. But props would look better. That is big and empty, gotta drop that ceiling.
4, 7-9) All that geo does look odd when you point it out... I player clipped most of that too hahaha... sigh.
5) That's one of the biggest reasons to NEVER to symmetrical bases in Hammer. When you flip, what was perfectly on grid, ends up off grid by a hair. I bet if I fix that, it will open up a ton of leaks, which I'll no doubt spend sat plugging... heh thanks again.
6) Bad lighting in general outside. Gotta work on the sun angle and the bounce light which will probably fix that.
10) BWHAHAHAA... yea you shouldn't be in there... looks like its using some kind of collision too you didn't fall through!?
11) Aye, aye captin! Really good idea. Roundy windows it is. I'll have to keep it pretty subtle so its not an unfair cover advantage. Or I could make them bigger really round them out and add sliding windows to square them off, still a rectangle hole but roundy boat appearance... humm...
12) I could take that block out, but it helps one portal from seeing into the other larger outdoor portal. Spies also like to hide there in that little cubby... dirty bastards... I'm not sure how to handle the portal issue without it tho.
13) Trim baby trim yea a door would be swanky, if I can do it with brushes and existing textures that would be ideal... but I feel another prop coming on.
14) ah... umm... yea... who put that there!?
15) Bawls, I offset the fronts but missed the tops... fail. heh Well if I do custom stair props that'll solve that!
I disabled the shader on the ice until I get a chance to do some research, its like a source nightmare to have spec and transparency on an object and have an object inside. When I turn it on the fish inside will flicker render ontop of the ice at times, it also renders inside out. I've only found a few examples of glass with reflections but I'll keep digging.
Oooo thanks for the tip, and that is a good point about the ice, I will probably change the texture on the fish to be red and the ice more transparent. Refract huh that could be handy!
Lookin' pretty sweet, Vig. I like the new lighting and skybox.
Speaking of lighting, what do your compile settings look like? I notice one of your planes is fully lit while the one right next to it is fully shadowed, so have you considered using -StaticPropLighting and -StaticPropPolys to get better shadows on your props? They'll lengthen your compile times by a stupid amount, so you'll probably only want to use them when you're doing a final compile, but the vertex lighting on your props should look a lot better.
he yea Zac TF2 for the PC is great. So much bonus content for free.
Yep compiled using mostly standard compile, I didn't know the other methods handled lighting better, thats good to know. I Also have some lighting issues on the hull of the ship also, its been crazy trying to sort them out. It compiles in under 5min now so I won't mind final compiles taking a bit longer, hopefully it won't add to the file size that much when it bakes more accurate light maps? I'll have to read up on it. Maybe you can turn it on on a per-prop basis?
Yep compiled using mostly standard compile, I didn't know the other methods handled lighting better, thats good to know. I Also have some lighting issues on the hull of the ship also, its been crazy trying to sort them out. It compiles in under 5min now so I won't mind final compiles taking a bit longer, hopefully it won't add to the file size that much when it bakes more accurate light maps? I'll have to read up on it. Maybe you can turn it on on a per-prop basis?
Using the more advanced lighting options can definitely add to the filesize of the map, though in my experience it's only a few MB. If you go through and optimize your lightmap resolutions so that you use low-res ones on faces that don't have complex shadows on them (like small bits of trim), you can usually dramatically decrease the filesize while keeping things looking nice. I cut 5 MB off the size of a map I made simply by using low-res shadow maps on all the little pieces of trim and roofs and anything the player wasn't going to see up close.
Unfortunately you can't use the more advanced lighting options on a per-prop basis. They affect the entire map's lighting. The results are quite pretty, though. :poly124:
If you want, I can post the settings I use for my compiles along with my lights.rad file. I generally get good results with the settings I use, though the compiles do take a bit longer since I pretty often use advanced lighting options.
Thanks for the link, I've been playing around with the Vrad settings, I'd love to see your setting swizz whenever you get a chance.
Also do you use the Valve compiler built into hammer or a seperate gui?
After play testing it with Swizz, Wyatt and the rest of the CGS guys here is a list of bugs and fixes along with some questions I have for anyone who's given the map a spin.
List O' Bugs:
- *The Blue team fills up the 2nd spawn in the ships galley instead of the 1st spawn room (bunk room)
- *They also spawn in the red 2nd spawn...
- *There are gaps around the spawn rooms where engineers can build. Specifically at the bottom of the 2nd spawn room stairs (the back way that is team specific).
- A little too dark in some areas.
- Props oddly lit, probably due to compile settings at default normal.
- Blue props and textures in the red base.
- *Several minor geometry errors.
* Fixed as of this morning but I had to leave the map compiling. I also worked on a different ice shader last night using vcool's idea. It turned out pretty well. I'll get some screens up tonight or tomorrow.
Questions for you guys:
1) Overall how did everyone feel about the nav and the signage?
2) Engies seem to cluster inside the inner intel room, should I expand it?
3) Also how do you guys feel about the window in the intel room? What about making breakable windows for the engies to place turrets behind?
Judging by the screenshots (don't have tf2 installed right now and can't) I think I like the nighttime version better. I'd make the inside of the ship way rounder, round corners, round doors, everything. Would make an interesting contrast since the red base is quite angular. And yet it'd make the inside of the ship feel more cramped, more submarine-like. You can achieve that through lighting too, using spot lights with a bit darker spots between them. When it's brightly lit like that, feels empty.
But I really like what you've done so far, props are great. I think you should expose the tugboat a bit more, and maybe put more of it, I love it! Maybe make it a way of getting inside the blue base? I love it when you're on the docks and need to get on a boat, but there's a bunch of other ones in between, so you have to jump from one to another. Might be a bad idea because of collisions and stuff, just said it because looking at your map made me feel nostalgic.
I did a quick fix and corrected some of the show stopping issues and reran the compile with a few suggestions from Swiz, I think it was a improvement. The sky isn't as blown out as it was before and more importantly the lighting on the props is much more accurate. I need to keep playing with it to get exactly what I'm after.
According to the valve wiki I need collision meshes for most if not all props for the lighting to be calculated a bit more quickly?
By default, Vrad calculates prop shadows using collision meshes because it's not as processor intensive and they usually have the same silhouette as the view models. Unfortunately, this also means that the vertex lighting on the view models isn't as exact as it should be; the entire model is lit uniformly with no self shadowing and if more than 50% of the model is in light or shadow, the entire model will be lit as if in light or shadow.
To counteract this, you have to tell Vrad that you want to light all models on a per-vertex basis instead of a per-model basis. This results in better lighting on all models in the map, but it can also take twice as long or more to finish the lighting stage of the compile since light values are calculated not just for shadow maps and simple lighting, but also vertex lighting on every single model in the map.
Running Vrad can take crazy long if you also tell it to calculate lighting and take transparency on models into account, like the chain link fences or the pine trees.
I'll post my compile settings as soon as I can actually get into Hammer. Steam's being a little bitch right now.
Okey doke. I got my compile settings and here's how you can implement them:
For nice, pretty lighting, you're going to have to use the expert compile options. Hit F9 to open the Run Map dialog box and press the Expert... button.
In the dropdown list, select "HDR Full compile -final (slow!)"
Now hit the New button and in the Command box type (minus quotes) "$light_exe"
That's going to tell Vrad that you want to use the lights file called lights_tf2.rad (which I'll mention in a second), that you want to compile in both HDR and LDR (-both), that you want to use view models instead of collision models for shadows (-staticproppolys), that you want to use per-vertex lighting on props (-staticproplighting), and that you want to have models with translucent parts cast translucent shadows instead of just using polygon edges (-textureshadows).
If you don't have any models with transparent parts, I'd suggest removing "-lights lights_tf2.rad" as well as "-textureshadows" since it's not going to do anything for you except lengthen your compile times. If you do have models that use transparency and you want to use them, then I'll get to it in a sec.
Now you should have two items under the "Compile/run commands:" box that start with "$light_exe". One should be the original and the other should be the one you just made. Uncheck the box next to the old one and make sure the box next to the one you just created is checked. Click on yours to select it in the list and press the Move Up button to move it just below the old one. The order that things are arranged in this list controls what order they run in, so it's important that you have your lighting commands under your BSP and Vis commands and above your copy file commands.
If you've done everything correctly, you should just be able to press the Go! button and your compile will start. Since you're using advanced lighting options, the compiles will take a lot longer than usual, but you can always do a normal compile with no special options by pressing the Normal button.
Don't bother with this stuff if you don't have transparent models that should be casting shadows:
You've got your lighting commands set up, but they currently refer to a file, lights_tf2.rad, that doesn't currently exist. This is simply a text file with names and locations of models which use transparency and a command that says to force Vrad to cast shadows based on how opaque they are. Open up Notepad and copy and paste this into it:
Once you have all that in Notepad, save it as lights_tf2.rad in C : \Program Files\Steam\steamapps\YOUR USERNAME\team fortress 2\tf and you should be good to go.
Fantastic info Swiz, thanks a bunch. I have a few transparent models I'll have to add to the list.
I ran the latest version on "HDR Full compile -final (slow!)" And it chunked the size up .5mb which I can probably shave out by being crafty with the luxel scale like you pointed out earlier.
I'll run it again tonight with the added parameters and see what I get. Thanks a bunch!
Here's a screenshot of the new ice blocks using the refract shader (thanks Vcool). These are in the latest compile btw.
Which we'll be playing again on the TF2maps.net server in an hour 63.210.148.171:27015
Yep just ended, I caught the tail end. It was recorded and should be up soon... yea not the same but it might be interesting to check out the demo in playback.
1st off thanks for taking the time to run the map and write this up that's great I really appreciate it
1) The light bulbs. They are actually pretty common even on modern aircraft carriers. The reason is so planes can identify the proper vessel at night. http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/1306131/060302-N-1658A-002.jpg http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/1306131/051202b_hi.jpg
I added them when I switched the map to a night scene. I think I'll leave them in they don't add too much to the poly count. Granted they are more like little cage lights but that would be costly and they where a late addition when I converted it over to night for the last release, so there wasn't much room in the UV layout.
2) Yea that room needs some more detailing to define its purpose. Since the intel room has been a bit of hotbed for changes I haven't given it a final pass.
3-4) Those are in the skybox moving them inside the playable area would be kind of costly.
Be sure to check out the battlements (stairs to the right just before you go out the main front door). If you keep going up the stairs there is ammo and health. From the battlements you can cover the two main entrances. There is also a long hallway by the intel room where everyone needs to pass to get into the intel. I made sure to always put a way to flank snipers, I know snipers bitch about this they like being killing machines that can't be touched but it drives a lot of people nuts. In that long hallway I might put a small window at the end with a tiny sniper room, just so they feel like they have a "spot". It won't change the tactics that much but it will make them happy.
5) Yep big pallets of fish, either on ice or in cans also conveyors will be coming in and out of that area. his is meant to be the main processing room so con Haven't gotten to modeling those props yet. I like the big fish suggestions too that could be interesting...
6) Cool idea but I'm not sure I want to create a huge set of kitchen props. Although they probably would be pretty popular...
7) There's a reasons the heavy's bunk is caved in... dude was not built to be a sailor heh.
8) Hey! Don't look up there! But seriously there are wires and a hook that haven't been textured or compiled, they complete the crane.
9) That seems to be coming up a lot, especially on the ship. People want round, heh. I'll probably leave it square, but trim it out and detail it so its not so 1995 looking.
10) Shouldn't you be killing people not looking at the walls =P I swear the spy must have put those there to confuse the red team. Yea, left overs from flipping the blue base to make the red I missed the poster but the blue hatch doesn't have a red counter part prop made yet.
11) Gotta flip that bad boy the other way, another weird result from flipping the blue base, some props flip, others don't. When I get to detailing that room for the red team I'll make sure to sort that lil guy out Thanks for catching it
I'm not sure how it will look on other monitors? I darkened up quite a few areas.
Whats left?
I'm calling the blue base finished unless someone reports some wonkiness or has a great suggestion. Which leaves:
- Lighting in the red base
- Middle bridge prop and materials
- Misc fish related props (stacks of cans, pallets of fish, nets)
- Misc farm related props placed
I'll post a download link after I get home from work.
I'll also look into getting it up on a few servers and post dates and times when I know more.
Damnit Vig, TF2 takes up enough room on my harddrive without you attempting to double the amount of static meshes with what will no-doubt be an official map.
Seriously though, this is one of the best looking maps, valve-made or otherwise.
Unrar the file and place it in your TF2/maps folder, normally found in:
Program Files\Steam\steamapps\*SteamName*\team fortress 2\tf\maps\
Here's the latest version, its damn near finished. I added in the last major game play related prop last night (the middle bridge) so get out your magnifying glasses and rip this thing to shreds. I'm looking for feedback on big flaws and small nit picks, anything and everything that bugs you.
Do you get lost?
Do you get caught on things?
Do you have a suggestion for details?
Do you think the lighting could use a tweak?
Do you think it needs something specific added for a class?
Any and all crits are very much welcome, feel free to pick it apart.
Looks great, Vig. One thing that stood out to me is the fuse box prop - the notice should read 'shoddy workmanship' not 'shotty'. Other than that, great work.
Looks great, Vig. One thing that stood out to me is the fuse box prop - the notice should read 'shoddy workmanship' not 'shotty'. Other than that, great work.
I think you should keep it but add some graffiti (someone has written on it) underneath it that says something like:
"yeah and terrible spelling"
Adam, yep I agree about the ice, I worked on the shader a bit last week and still need to tweak it. The frosty parts need to go and the refraction needs to be scaled up (still trying to figure out how to do that, source shaders are a text file nightmare) or it just needs to go.
Dan, heh, I was being cleaver, because you know engineers use their shotguns to do wiring on aircraft carriers... err I mean I fixed it after I posted those shots, its worded correctly in this release.
Alberto, thanks!
Surfa, I blame photoshop for not having a spell check =P
Since you're looking for people to pick it apart, I'll oblige. I had a quick run through the map and found a few weird things. It won't let me put this many pictures in a single post, so links will have to do.
Dedicated server: 67.183.52.83:27015
You can connect and download the map automatically, without having to manually download and install anything. I'll leave the server up until friday (1/8/10), while I'm testing the map this week.
Replies
can't wait..
I've been watching the demo recording of the play test and its pretty awesome, its like you're spectating the game as its going on, amazing to get feedback, better then playing. But its clear the signage and the lighting need a lot of work to help people get their barrings. But once people settled in and ran around it once or twice they got down to business.
hope you don´t mind
http://www.rollin.homepage.t-online.de/temp/decker_crit.jpg
1) I'm in the process of moving the 2nd spawn base. I've moved it around the corner where the health/hatch are at to the left of your screen shot. On the opposite wall I put Intel/Exit signs.
2) There where signs there at one point, but I moved the wall forward and now they're hidden... they'll be back asap. Same story with the signs in the bunk room spawn which where missing in this build also (instead of battlements that will read exit).
3) The twist/turns are for two reasons, to block outside or inside zones from rendering when they shouldn't. Or they are moving around other rooms. In the case of other rooms they can be pushed back to straighten out the bendy hallways, I'll see what I can do about that. That complaint popped up a few times.
4) Good idea, but I have to no-clip the planes so they're inaccessible. Crazy demo's and snipers keep crawling back there, turns out you can slowly walk up the wing or something...
5) Blue props in the red base, yea that's on the list, they're place holder until I get the red props made. I'll probably just make a red texture variant for the blu props. Just to use until I get the meshes made and textured.
Optimized all the old props and started on some new ones.
Great work. Can't wait to see more.
play.
this.
This looks like a totally official map Vig! Great execution of details and keeping with the theme. (as many others have already said...just adding that glorious encouragement fuel to the fire.)
When do you think the next build of the map will be ready for playtesting?
I finished off the blue base (Finally!) and over the weekend I flipped the core base and started detailing the red side. Right now its functional and optimized, just not 100% detailed on the red side. But I decided to do another release (see link below) before the final to make sure the changes I did work like they should.
Any suggestions, crits and comments are always welcome.
Enclosed the sniper deck, gave them a little more cover and a bit of a higher perch.
This is the Red Team spawn room. Still some details to add but its getting there.
Blue Intel room. Added 2 sets of stairs, one is seen here (everyone can use it) the second is team specific and leads back to the 2nd spawn.
Added portholes and a lot of misc detailing to the blue base.
More screens including older shots: http://www.vigville.com/wip/ctf_decker/
Download: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2336353/ctf_decker_b13a.rar
Whats left to do:
- Finish off the 3D details in the skybox as well as revisit the 2D skybox.
- Redo the Cannery logo and come up with a few cannary posters.
- Build a 3-4 more props for the red base, crates of ice, fish and stacks of cans.
- Trim out and red base and add various details.
- Do soundscapes and particles.
- Figure out why the cannary sign coughs up pink smoke...
I'll see if I can play around with it on the weekend or something.
Think maybe you could release a quick fly through?
I've put together some crits on a big img..
so I'm just linking it
here
just visual crits.. some more important than others.. just run around an made some shots
some additional stuff:
maybe add some shader stuff to the ice blocks.. they look not really icy atm
it would be cool to have some bulleyes to look out from the ship.. would increase the feeling of "I'm on a ship"
and I think there are still too dark spots where they shouldn't be (on deck some corners) bit of fake GI would be cool (however this would be done)
oh and of course I should mention this
1) I kind of had plans for that hole, It was another doorway that improved the flow, but caused portal issues. I had kind of forgotten about it, so thanks! I'll be sure to remove it.
2) Ha... opps.
3) Looks like more custom props to me? I made those stairs as copies of the ones in 2 fort, in the sewers. But props would look better. That is big and empty, gotta drop that ceiling.
4, 7-9) All that geo does look odd when you point it out... I player clipped most of that too hahaha... sigh.
5) That's one of the biggest reasons to NEVER to symmetrical bases in Hammer. When you flip, what was perfectly on grid, ends up off grid by a hair. I bet if I fix that, it will open up a ton of leaks, which I'll no doubt spend sat plugging... heh thanks again.
6) Bad lighting in general outside. Gotta work on the sun angle and the bounce light which will probably fix that.
10) BWHAHAHAA... yea you shouldn't be in there... looks like its using some kind of collision too you didn't fall through!?
11) Aye, aye captin! Really good idea. Roundy windows it is. I'll have to keep it pretty subtle so its not an unfair cover advantage. Or I could make them bigger really round them out and add sliding windows to square them off, still a rectangle hole but roundy boat appearance... humm...
12) I could take that block out, but it helps one portal from seeing into the other larger outdoor portal. Spies also like to hide there in that little cubby... dirty bastards... I'm not sure how to handle the portal issue without it tho.
13) Trim baby trim yea a door would be swanky, if I can do it with brushes and existing textures that would be ideal... but I feel another prop coming on.
14) ah... umm... yea... who put that there!?
15) Bawls, I offset the fronts but missed the tops... fail. heh Well if I do custom stair props that'll solve that!
I disabled the shader on the ice until I get a chance to do some research, its like a source nightmare to have spec and transparency on an object and have an object inside. When I turn it on the fish inside will flicker render ontop of the ice at times, it also renders inside out. I've only found a few examples of glass with reflections but I'll keep digging.
If you still wanna keep it in, I suggest looking into the refract shader. It's shiny by default, refracts like ice and is transparent.
Speaking of lighting, what do your compile settings look like? I notice one of your planes is fully lit while the one right next to it is fully shadowed, so have you considered using -StaticPropLighting and -StaticPropPolys to get better shadows on your props? They'll lengthen your compile times by a stupid amount, so you'll probably only want to use them when you're doing a final compile, but the vertex lighting on your props should look a lot better.
It's gotten an insane number of updates. You should buy it. It's cheap. You know you want to.
There are achievements.
Unlockable weapons.
Custom maps.
As many servers as you like.
A better control scheme.
Upcoming class updates.
Custom content galore.
Give in to your anger.
Join the dark side.
Yep compiled using mostly standard compile, I didn't know the other methods handled lighting better, thats good to know. I Also have some lighting issues on the hull of the ship also, its been crazy trying to sort them out. It compiles in under 5min now so I won't mind final compiles taking a bit longer, hopefully it won't add to the file size that much when it bakes more accurate light maps? I'll have to read up on it. Maybe you can turn it on on a per-prop basis?
Using the more advanced lighting options can definitely add to the filesize of the map, though in my experience it's only a few MB. If you go through and optimize your lightmap resolutions so that you use low-res ones on faces that don't have complex shadows on them (like small bits of trim), you can usually dramatically decrease the filesize while keeping things looking nice. I cut 5 MB off the size of a map I made simply by using low-res shadow maps on all the little pieces of trim and roofs and anything the player wasn't going to see up close.
Unfortunately you can't use the more advanced lighting options on a per-prop basis. They affect the entire map's lighting. The results are quite pretty, though. :poly124:
You can find more info about different Vrad settings here.
If you want, I can post the settings I use for my compiles along with my lights.rad file. I generally get good results with the settings I use, though the compiles do take a bit longer since I pretty often use advanced lighting options.
Also do you use the Valve compiler built into hammer or a seperate gui?
After play testing it with Swizz, Wyatt and the rest of the CGS guys here is a list of bugs and fixes along with some questions I have for anyone who's given the map a spin.
List O' Bugs:
- *The Blue team fills up the 2nd spawn in the ships galley instead of the 1st spawn room (bunk room)
- *They also spawn in the red 2nd spawn...
- *There are gaps around the spawn rooms where engineers can build. Specifically at the bottom of the 2nd spawn room stairs (the back way that is team specific).
- A little too dark in some areas.
- Props oddly lit, probably due to compile settings at default normal.
- Blue props and textures in the red base.
- *Several minor geometry errors.
* Fixed as of this morning but I had to leave the map compiling. I also worked on a different ice shader last night using vcool's idea. It turned out pretty well. I'll get some screens up tonight or tomorrow.
Questions for you guys:
1) Overall how did everyone feel about the nav and the signage?
2) Engies seem to cluster inside the inner intel room, should I expand it?
3) Also how do you guys feel about the window in the intel room? What about making breakable windows for the engies to place turrets behind?
But I really like what you've done so far, props are great. I think you should expose the tugboat a bit more, and maybe put more of it, I love it! Maybe make it a way of getting inside the blue base? I love it when you're on the docks and need to get on a boat, but there's a bunch of other ones in between, so you have to jump from one to another. Might be a bad idea because of collisions and stuff, just said it because looking at your map made me feel nostalgic.
According to the valve wiki I need collision meshes for most if not all props for the lighting to be calculated a bit more quickly?
It now compiles in 17min so its not a huge hit.
It's not perfect but the freaky spawn issues are sorted out.
New file: http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/1306131/ctf_decker_b13a.rar
But you have collision meshes for props either way, right? Or do you simply block them with clips?
That's because you can run light calculation by poly. More precise but way slow
To counteract this, you have to tell Vrad that you want to light all models on a per-vertex basis instead of a per-model basis. This results in better lighting on all models in the map, but it can also take twice as long or more to finish the lighting stage of the compile since light values are calculated not just for shadow maps and simple lighting, but also vertex lighting on every single model in the map.
Running Vrad can take crazy long if you also tell it to calculate lighting and take transparency on models into account, like the chain link fences or the pine trees.
I'll post my compile settings as soon as I can actually get into Hammer. Steam's being a little bitch right now.
For nice, pretty lighting, you're going to have to use the expert compile options. Hit F9 to open the Run Map dialog box and press the Expert... button.
In the dropdown list, select "HDR Full compile -final (slow!)"
Now hit the New button and in the Command box type (minus quotes) "$light_exe"
Copy this line into the Parameters box:
-lights lights_tf2.rad -both -staticproppolys -staticproplighting -textureshadows -game $gamedir $path\$file
That's going to tell Vrad that you want to use the lights file called lights_tf2.rad (which I'll mention in a second), that you want to compile in both HDR and LDR (-both), that you want to use view models instead of collision models for shadows (-staticproppolys), that you want to use per-vertex lighting on props (-staticproplighting), and that you want to have models with translucent parts cast translucent shadows instead of just using polygon edges (-textureshadows).
If you don't have any models with transparent parts, I'd suggest removing "-lights lights_tf2.rad" as well as "-textureshadows" since it's not going to do anything for you except lengthen your compile times. If you do have models that use transparency and you want to use them, then I'll get to it in a sec.
Now you should have two items under the "Compile/run commands:" box that start with "$light_exe". One should be the original and the other should be the one you just made. Uncheck the box next to the old one and make sure the box next to the one you just created is checked. Click on yours to select it in the list and press the Move Up button to move it just below the old one. The order that things are arranged in this list controls what order they run in, so it's important that you have your lighting commands under your BSP and Vis commands and above your copy file commands.
If you've done everything correctly, you should just be able to press the Go! button and your compile will start. Since you're using advanced lighting options, the compiles will take a lot longer than usual, but you can always do a normal compile with no special options by pressing the Normal button.
Don't bother with this stuff if you don't have transparent models that should be casting shadows:
You've got your lighting commands set up, but they currently refer to a file, lights_tf2.rad, that doesn't currently exist. This is simply a text file with names and locations of models which use transparency and a command that says to force Vrad to cast shadows based on how opaque they are. Open up Notepad and copy and paste this into it:
Once you have all that in Notepad, save it as lights_tf2.rad in C : \Program Files\Steam\steamapps\YOUR USERNAME\team fortress 2\tf and you should be good to go.
I ran the latest version on "HDR Full compile -final (slow!)" And it chunked the size up .5mb which I can probably shave out by being crafty with the luxel scale like you pointed out earlier.
I'll run it again tonight with the added parameters and see what I get. Thanks a bunch!
Here's a screenshot of the new ice blocks using the refract shader (thanks Vcool). These are in the latest compile btw.
Which we'll be playing again on the TF2maps.net server in an hour 63.210.148.171:27015
http://ducttape.sourceforge.net/surfa/read-this.html
I think the CGSociety guys are getting together tonight, I know its on their server and they've been playing it.
http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=2&t=541435
Awesome feedback thanks for taking the time that rocks! I'll answer most it in greater detail later, gotta dash.
Turns out I joined too early.
Wow I feel like such an idiot...
1) The light bulbs. They are actually pretty common even on modern aircraft carriers. The reason is so planes can identify the proper vessel at night.
http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/1306131/060302-N-1658A-002.jpg
http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/1306131/051202b_hi.jpg
I added them when I switched the map to a night scene. I think I'll leave them in they don't add too much to the poly count. Granted they are more like little cage lights but that would be costly and they where a late addition when I converted it over to night for the last release, so there wasn't much room in the UV layout.
2) Yea that room needs some more detailing to define its purpose. Since the intel room has been a bit of hotbed for changes I haven't given it a final pass.
3-4) Those are in the skybox moving them inside the playable area would be kind of costly.
Be sure to check out the battlements (stairs to the right just before you go out the main front door). If you keep going up the stairs there is ammo and health. From the battlements you can cover the two main entrances. There is also a long hallway by the intel room where everyone needs to pass to get into the intel. I made sure to always put a way to flank snipers, I know snipers bitch about this they like being killing machines that can't be touched but it drives a lot of people nuts. In that long hallway I might put a small window at the end with a tiny sniper room, just so they feel like they have a "spot". It won't change the tactics that much but it will make them happy.
5) Yep big pallets of fish, either on ice or in cans also conveyors will be coming in and out of that area. his is meant to be the main processing room so con Haven't gotten to modeling those props yet. I like the big fish suggestions too that could be interesting...
6) Cool idea but I'm not sure I want to create a huge set of kitchen props. Although they probably would be pretty popular...
7) There's a reasons the heavy's bunk is caved in... dude was not built to be a sailor heh.
8) Hey! Don't look up there! But seriously there are wires and a hook that haven't been textured or compiled, they complete the crane.
9) That seems to be coming up a lot, especially on the ship. People want round, heh. I'll probably leave it square, but trim it out and detail it so its not so 1995 looking.
10) Shouldn't you be killing people not looking at the walls =P I swear the spy must have put those there to confuse the red team. Yea, left overs from flipping the blue base to make the red I missed the poster but the blue hatch doesn't have a red counter part prop made yet.
11) Gotta flip that bad boy the other way, another weird result from flipping the blue base, some props flip, others don't. When I get to detailing that room for the red team I'll make sure to sort that lil guy out Thanks for catching it
http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/1306131/ctf_decker_b140002.jpg
http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/1306131/ctf_decker_b140003.jpg
http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/1306131/ctf_decker_b140005.jpg
I'm not sure anyone else but me notices but the smoke stack the turret and a few other props (which are in the skybox) are coming out much much brighter. They have the same base texture as the comm tower to the right (which is also in the skybox) and they all match in hammer before compiling, and they match without lighting... Someone mentioned coping my lights_environment to my skybox also?
Newest version b14: http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/1306131/ctf_decker_b14.rar
Easing into it with a texture for some older props
And some new props
A lot of lighting and detail tweaks
More screens: http://www.vigville.com/wip/ctf_decker/
I'm not sure how it will look on other monitors? I darkened up quite a few areas.
Whats left?
I'm calling the blue base finished unless someone reports some wonkiness or has a great suggestion. Which leaves:
- Lighting in the red base
- Middle bridge prop and materials
- Misc fish related props (stacks of cans, pallets of fish, nets)
- Misc farm related props placed
I'll post a download link after I get home from work.
I'll also look into getting it up on a few servers and post dates and times when I know more.
Seriously though, this is one of the best looking maps, valve-made or otherwise.
Unrar the file and place it in your TF2/maps folder, normally found in:
Program Files\Steam\steamapps\*SteamName*\team fortress 2\tf\maps\
Here's the latest version, its damn near finished. I added in the last major game play related prop last night (the middle bridge) so get out your magnifying glasses and rip this thing to shreds. I'm looking for feedback on big flaws and small nit picks, anything and everything that bugs you.
Do you get lost?
Do you get caught on things?
Do you have a suggestion for details?
Do you think the lighting could use a tweak?
Do you think it needs something specific added for a class?
Any and all crits are very much welcome, feel free to pick it apart.
I think you should keep it but add some graffiti (someone has written on it) underneath it that says something like:
"yeah and terrible spelling"
Dan, heh, I was being cleaver, because you know engineers use their shotguns to do wiring on aircraft carriers... err I mean I fixed it after I posted those shots, its worded correctly in this release.
Alberto, thanks!
Surfa, I blame photoshop for not having a spell check =P
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y29/xkostolny/ctf_decker_b160000.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y29/xkostolny/ctf_decker_b160001.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y29/xkostolny/ctf_decker_b160002.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y29/xkostolny/ctf_decker_b160003.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y29/xkostolny/ctf_decker_b160004.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y29/xkostolny/ctf_decker_b160007.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y29/xkostolny/ctf_decker_b160008.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y29/xkostolny/ctf_decker_b160009.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y29/xkostolny/ctf_decker_b160010.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y29/xkostolny/ctf_decker_b160011.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y29/xkostolny/ctf_decker_b160012.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y29/xkostolny/ctf_decker_b160014.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y29/xkostolny/ctf_decker_b160015.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y29/xkostolny/ctf_decker_b160016.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y29/xkostolny/ctf_decker_b160017.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y29/xkostolny/ctf_decker_b160018.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y29/xkostolny/ctf_decker_b160022.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y29/xkostolny/ctf_decker_b160023.jpg
You can connect and download the map automatically, without having to manually download and install anything. I'll leave the server up until friday (1/8/10), while I'm testing the map this week.
Swiz, awesome! Thanks a ton buddy, you rock!
Electro, PM'ed you.