This is a brilliant move. You can learn for free, everything you would have at AI, here on PC and the internet in general. Except here you're actually learning from industry pros. Just make sure to stay motivated, keep pushing yourself and do atleast one art related task every day, even if its just a sketch, a little work on a model, just do something.
yay this. exactly!
and just because I feel like giving an example (I'm NOT trying to be a dick by showing this, but the dude should hate the school too), here's one of the people I graduated with:
Unless you're all about the money, then the only formal education you should get would be in economics or for a different career in case you run out luck say, as an artist.
Echoing what others said, it's about what you can do when you're applying for a job making other people rich. Exposure is also what separates you from other people gunning for the same job.
Unless you're all about the money, then the only formal education you should get would be in economics or for a different career in case you run out luck say, as an artist.
Echoing what others said, it's about what you can do when you're applying for a job making other people rich. Exposure is also what separates you from other people gunning for the same job.
That doesnt even make any sense... except the last sentence.
I went to AI - San Diego with Cojax. Honestly it was a huge waste of money. I taught most of the stuff to myself and learned a lot from just doing it and here on polycount. I owe a shit ton of money now and I would rather take that payment and save it but I can't so now I am stuck. It blows!
AI did give me a lot of friends and a push into the right direction but is that worth 80k to you? It wasn't to me and I figured it out too late. It is nice to have the degree and have completed school but it isn't needed in the end.
Make up your mind before it is too late and before you waste a shit ton of money. If your parents will let you live at home and attend a local school for fundamental art skills then you would be better off. You could learn 3d very quickly by just working on it 8 hours a day at your house and following tutorials online.
Hell you could learn unreal 3 by just picking up the collectors edition of UT3 with all the tutorials and start building levels and learning the editor.
The industry uses UE3 everywhere and if you have a solid grasp of building levels, and lighting then you could probably land a job in many places. Add that to learning any kismet and some modeling and you are way ahead of most AI grads.
Out of the people I met over 3+ years at AI I would say the few that got jobs were motivated and did stuff on their own. A rough number would be 12 out of over 150 people got decent jobs.
So, I'm outta AI now, Going to a local collage (Germanna) for Info Tech Security, and I'm going to study 3D n stuff on my own time. I might even take a few art classes there since they are relatively inexpensive. (87 dollars a credit)
So I can't start the school until summer semester, and I'll get a job somewhere before that. I should have plenty of time to get the ball rolling, and post some stuff here.
Lost About $1500 bucks leaving AI, that annoys me sense I basically flushed it down the toilet, But hey, that's better than realizing the school's a shit pit half way in.
Not to be an ass, but the portfolios of graduates that were posted are... um... well... erm... not... grea-....... I mean need some work.
Thanks for the huge response everybody, expect some work from me soon!
Which better school do you refer to? Im just curious .
From the look of those demo reels just about every game-related school in the Netherlands would be better? Also, in 4 years you could get a masters degree, instead of a bachelors degree.
I personally attend the HAN(Hogeschool Arnhem Nijmegen). What are your experiences with Dutch(game related?) schools, you seem to have an opinion about them?
Well I do have an opinion about HRO(Hogeschool Rotterdam). It was pretty much the same as what these guys are talking about. I quit after 1 year, and figured I'd just get a part-time job and in my spare time, I'll just practice my art at home.
With traditional art, everyone knows HOW to do it, you pick up a pencil/brush and you start drawing/painting. So when you attend an traditional art school, they actualy teach of how to make GOOD art, they teach you more of WHY to do it, so they teach you about color/mood,composition etc.
With our art, I think, the schools only teach the HOW. So they tell you where to find all the buttons, but don't really tell what actualy makes a piece look good.
But that's just me, I've quit after 1 year, so who knows, I may be missing out on alot of good stuff, but I dont care, the polycount way will get me there eventualy, in a much cheaper and fun way .
But anyway, I also live in holland like some other doodz here. I'm doing 'game design' @ Mediacollege Amsterdam. It sucks balls though. The only reason I'm not quitting is that I have to pay the government when I quit, so I have to get my degree. But it's not that big of a deal cause it's not really expensive and I have alot of spare time to work on my protfolio. And besides, I have been offered a Trainee post for 10 months. After that's done I will prolly reconsider leaving the school. Depth to the government wouldn't be that big a deal when I start earning real money while exploiting my parents for sum more time by living in their house.
School is also a way for me to keep myself on the track & motivated (even though my school sucks @ stimulating my ass) XD
I think you made a smart move. I also think it would be a smart move for you to take the art classes at your community college. Take classes like drawing, sculpture, painting (color theory), ect... You'll find out how valuable those basic principals are later on. Keeping motivated is hard for some (me) so do the contests and all that jive you'll find on these game art communities or just art communities in general. Also once you feel confident in your work start looking for an internship or something to help you break into the industry and make contacts.
Wow... I'm a third quarter student in the Game Art and Design program at the Art Institute of Pittsburgh... I'm strongly reconsidering my decisions...
Granted there are some exceptional instructors here (Styers, Washington, and Love for those of you who may know them) who still have alot to offer me as far as furthering my education and helping me refine my skills, but I think after this quarter or next I'm dropping out.
The only problem is that I have very VERY limited experience with photoshop and any 3d modeling programs. I mess around in Max at school and I take out a Wacom from the school when I can, but I'm not really sure if I can learn all I need to quite yet.
the art institute of pittsburgh is one of the few that are actually pretty good as far as I know Marnik, there's at least 10 people working here that graduated there.
I went to a college called "Ex'pressions" good school, but well unworthy of it's price that it costed for. The only thing you could possibly recieve out of these schools, is maybe a few good friends. But the education is far greater if you teach yourself by reading online tutorials, buying dvd's from 3D Buzz, Gnomon, Digital Tutors, ect.
I would highly recommend leaving at this point while the opportunity ceases to be open. As is, the problem i've found otherwise is that these schools mostly specialize in film industry work. Not bad, but if it isn't you're cup of tea. They more than likely won't answer the or give the correct answers for the questions you have about the work you do. Nor will there critiques be of anything substancial to you working to grow to be a better artist.
As I found myself being told "wow great stuff matt, ect...while nothing relevant in the critique was measured to what I expressed I fancy'd most was "video games".
Be honest with yourself mate. If I could go back in time I would've left within my first 2 weeks of a refund.
I know a person here on polycount that basically graduated from highschool and found himself his first job at a good game company, and has been working ever since.
I hope my words have helped give you insight of someone who has paid the same price as you have paid. 2 1/2 years of attendance for a degree isn't worth it if you are still working on things you want to learn, and you know the places you can learn them from.
PS. Degree's are only handy if you want to work overseas in other countries where you have no citizenship/ for work visa's as far as i've come to find out.
I might be a bit biased but I'd do a fine arts or design degree in australia at either RMIT (melbourne) or UNSW (sydney). They're both good schools which teach the fundamentals of art. With the exchange rates as they are now you'd be able to live like a king for 80k USD(that's about 120k australian) even after paying for your course.
Yah I agree with everyone here, get out while you can. I paid $30,000 at AI to really just learn the basics. Mind that was just for a diploma not a BA. But if you are into traditional art then go and take some classes for that at a a non-private college. While taking the polycount university route for digital art.
Most of that $80,000 is probably going to some rich Ai CEO lol. Of about the 30 - 40 character and environment artists that graduated at our school each semester maybe 1 or 2 got art jobs right away and maybe a few more years later. Their high percentage employment rates are BS, they consider kids getting jobs in QA part of that which is most of that percentage.
Bounchfx: They were listed in the top five Game Art programs in the US whenever I signed up, so I figured they had to have something going for them, but do you think you could get some of the opinions of your coworkers/AIP Alumni on their education in retrospect? I'm working part time and my mom's working almost 80 hours a week so I can stay in school and I want to know if it's really worth it. By the looks of things so far it isn't =\.
CrazyMatt: I do plan on working in some other country besides the US at some point in time, so how exactly would a degree help me out if I should apply to a company overseas?
I don't believe that the US will have an issue hiring artists from outside the US. As the US does tons of outsourcing, and several people from outside the country come to work here all the time.
But the degree helps grant you as an outsider to places like the UK the ability for work visa. Otherwise without a degree in most cases, it's a royal pain the arse for the company you want to work for, work out the matters at hand to get you on a plane over to them for full-time work.
Most here from AiP went for animation so I can't say much about the game art course but a good amount of them here said they really enjoyed the animation course and that it was pretty solid
Hmmm, the more I think about it, it might actually be somewhat worth it to stay. I do plan on traveling with my work, so the degree will help. Plus I'm surrounded by some really great artists who have alot to offer me...
Two grads from the AiP GAD course work now...both got their jobs a little under a year after graduation. But their work wasn't the level of the average students, they busted their ass learning techniques outside of school to make their portfolios great and job ready. As long as you realize that school is really what you make it, the AiP GAD course isn't the worst thing you could do, especially since you're already in the school.
One last thing if I may add to you if you decide to stay.
If I could go back and change the past with my stay. It would have been not to make my class assignments my #1 priority. As when I enrolled, I was much more advanced for any of the courses I was taking. But given I was a heavy duty modder on my free-time. It became hard to manage time and work budget between my classes that I actually cared for, and those that I didn't.
So if you are entering with enough knowledge that can be applied to good skill and have a firm idea what you are interested in achieving. Work as hard as you can, even if you've got 2 to 4 years before getting done. Because every day you waste while in a university or specific trade college for game/film. It's another day you will and I say "will" regret not utilizing to you're advantage.
So whenever you get class assignments, or better yet. Before taking you're core cirriculum courses. Find out as much as you can about them, the amount of days, what you will be learning for those days, ect.
In other words jump ahead of the game so when the class comes, you can easily pass it by turning in what's needed. But while working on free-time, or additional time in classes. Just work on what you want in you're final portfolio.
I've said enough :P, but again it's fun to go through.
But the biggest of worries i'd say is the after payments from the loans you take out.
i know you've made up your mind; but what i'd say: go to a real school, like a state college or university. Find a cool campus, figure out what their art program has to offer, what the other students are producing, and sign up for a bunch of cool classes in English, Math, History, and other Art topics.
I really dont understand these Institutes, they do offer focused training, which is awesome - but art and inspiration does not ever only come from a focused place. You need to discover things in books, ancient paintings, the psychological bullshit structure of people's actions, biological makeups of things and how stuff works, and onward and outward into the vast number of topics you could encounter at a full-fledged school.
I dont think that most colleges are near the cost what you are describing... but i guess these days the numbers could be similar, but the value of the education would be far superior. Plus - being in college is cool. Booze, Boobs, tons of people whom you'd probably NEVER meet anywhere else, and all around great experiences.
Then again; you get out of what you put into it. If the teachers/instructors are "teaching you things you already know," you may be in the wrong mindset already. A lot of things you will learn, you will probably already know. These schools and "higher learning" are just as much about figuring out and being taught new things as it is your personal discovery into what you are learning, not how its coming at you. I'm not suggesting you're a slackjaw; just saying that a common misconception i hear all the time is that people aren't happy with their professors or school. It isn't their fault you're failing, it is your own
good luck with what you decide to do, i say boobs and beer + books = good art bank stuff. Lots of computers and techy stuff = boring art stuff. :P
As far as "needing" a degree for an Artist position somewhere, it isnt *really*necessary - but based on the level of the degree it will show a lot about your character, and work ethic up front. The only reason i'd suggest it is for personal development and maturity - but if your work speaks for itself loudly there shouldnt be a need.
From looking at the few links you posted there, i think you just need to buckle down and work harder; be more critical of your work. You may need to find someone/somewhere to be hypercritical for you (heh, polycount is pretty good at it), instead of people looking at it and saying "whoa its the Joker lol! thats cool!" You have some cool looking stuff, but it all just appears unpolished and thrown together. Push yourself
All these people talking about going abroad for cheap school are looking at it as a citizen - subsidized schooling doesn't apply to foreigners. If a US student were to travel to Australia for school, they'd probably wind up paying more than the $80k to go. My brother went to school in NZ and while his school wasn't a particularly prestigious school he wound up paying tremendously for it.
Moose, if you're ever in town look me up I can show you how to get boobs, beer, books and a few heaping helpings of life experience, without blowing a fat wad of cash, or ever going near a school. Of course a fat wad of cash always helps things along, but is not needed...
On a serious note, I read what you're writing and it makes sense. I especially agree about pushing yourself and really digging into much more then just the technical side of things. Its easy to get trapped in the technical side of art, much more so when you toss more technology on problem. A lot of ho-hum artists (myself included) find all kinds of ways to avoid growing artistically by making busy work of learning technical nuts and bolts.
I think you hit on something big, people who are naturally curious and artistically inclined make for some of the best artists in the industry, provided they don't bunker down with a years worth of tech manuals and forget about what makes great art and artists greater.
I know this is especially true for me, whenever I work on traditional art everything else improves, I don't do it nearly as much as I should and because of it, I haven't progressed like I should in some areas, but I still see the effects. I've also learned more about animation by observing things while I'm out and about, then I ever have sitting in front of the devil box.
"enroll in Polycount University, you learn lots and it's free!" -alexk
- lol, yup I learned more from polycount, books, and friends than the school I went too that cost me $20,000 for 2year degree.
"I can show you how to get boobs, beer, books and a few heaping helpings of life experience, without blowing a fat wad of cash" -Vig
- wtf hahaha
I think you hit on something big, people who are naturally curious and artistically inclined make for some of the best artists in the industry, provided they don't bunker down with a years worth of tech manuals and forget about what makes great art and artists greater.
I know this is especially true for me, whenever I work on traditional art everything else improves, I don't do it nearly as much as I should and because of it, I haven't progressed like I should in some areas, but I still see the effects.
this is very true, I didnt realise how much overlap there is from traditional to digital and vice versa. For example last weekend I made a 3D winnie the pooh sculpt, I had to really study pooh bear images on google to get it right haha. Then today 2 days later I was sketching and just came out with 2 sketches of winnie the pooh from different angles without even trying or looking at reference and people could instantly recognise him. Its like its all in there connected somehow.
All these people talking about going abroad for cheap school are looking at it as a citizen - subsidized schooling doesn't apply to foreigners. If a US student were to travel to Australia for school, they'd probably wind up paying more than the $80k to go. My brother went to school in NZ and while his school wasn't a particularly prestigious school he wound up paying tremendously for it.
Exchange rates at the moment aren't what they were a few years ago. The total schooling cost for all 3 years of fine arts at RMIT as a full fee paying student would be $56,160 australian dollars. That's $36,380.45 US dollars.
Thats not the government subsidised cost. That's the real cost for a foreign student as of this year. I got my info from here:
for 80k you could probably have someone here quit his job and train you personally for 1-2 years from 9 to 5, in the karibic, on the beach, with a laptop ...and you'd be better off.
hahaha, lol strangefate that is an a fucking awesome idea. I'd never thought of that. I could freaking hire almost any artists in the world to privately tutor me with 80k. It's not like it'd even be a full time thing for them either... wow
Well thanks for all the input and thoughts and so on and so forth, I've decided that I've still got alot I can take to heart from AIP, so I will still be attending for atleast the next few quarters. Glad to hear that some graduates got alot out of this place and I'll be sure to keep myself motivated.
Honestly I think the hardest part will be to cut back on CoD4
Replies
yay this. exactly!
and just because I feel like giving an example (I'm NOT trying to be a dick by showing this, but the dude should hate the school too), here's one of the people I graduated with:
http://elfvisharts.com/
sorry if I offend anyone with this.
yes this was for a 4 yr bachelors degree
Echoing what others said, it's about what you can do when you're applying for a job making other people rich. Exposure is also what separates you from other people gunning for the same job.
That doesnt even make any sense... except the last sentence.
AI did give me a lot of friends and a push into the right direction but is that worth 80k to you? It wasn't to me and I figured it out too late. It is nice to have the degree and have completed school but it isn't needed in the end.
Make up your mind before it is too late and before you waste a shit ton of money. If your parents will let you live at home and attend a local school for fundamental art skills then you would be better off. You could learn 3d very quickly by just working on it 8 hours a day at your house and following tutorials online.
Hell you could learn unreal 3 by just picking up the collectors edition of UT3 with all the tutorials and start building levels and learning the editor.
The industry uses UE3 everywhere and if you have a solid grasp of building levels, and lighting then you could probably land a job in many places. Add that to learning any kismet and some modeling and you are way ahead of most AI grads.
Out of the people I met over 3+ years at AI I would say the few that got jobs were motivated and did stuff on their own. A rough number would be 12 out of over 150 people got decent jobs.
no point in burning time in animation classes that wont be helpful to you
So I can't start the school until summer semester, and I'll get a job somewhere before that. I should have plenty of time to get the ball rolling, and post some stuff here.
Lost About $1500 bucks leaving AI, that annoys me sense I basically flushed it down the toilet, But hey, that's better than realizing the school's a shit pit half way in.
Not to be an ass, but the portfolios of graduates that were posted are... um... well... erm... not... grea-....... I mean need some work.
Thanks for the huge response everybody, expect some work from me soon!
just keep it up and don't lose motivation.
I personally attend the HAN(Hogeschool Arnhem Nijmegen). What are your experiences with Dutch(game related?) schools, you seem to have an opinion about them?
With traditional art, everyone knows HOW to do it, you pick up a pencil/brush and you start drawing/painting. So when you attend an traditional art school, they actualy teach of how to make GOOD art, they teach you more of WHY to do it, so they teach you about color/mood,composition etc.
With our art, I think, the schools only teach the HOW. So they tell you where to find all the buttons, but don't really tell what actualy makes a piece look good.
But that's just me, I've quit after 1 year, so who knows, I may be missing out on alot of good stuff, but I dont care, the polycount way will get me there eventualy, in a much cheaper and fun way
Lol @ Nick Gay
But anyway, I also live in holland like some other doodz here. I'm doing 'game design' @ Mediacollege Amsterdam. It sucks balls though. The only reason I'm not quitting is that I have to pay the government when I quit, so I have to get my degree. But it's not that big of a deal cause it's not really expensive and I have alot of spare time to work on my protfolio. And besides, I have been offered a Trainee post for 10 months. After that's done I will prolly reconsider leaving the school. Depth to the government wouldn't be that big a deal when I start earning real money while exploiting my parents for sum more time by living in their house.
School is also a way for me to keep myself on the track & motivated (even though my school sucks @ stimulating my ass) XD
Good luck!
Granted there are some exceptional instructors here (Styers, Washington, and Love for those of you who may know them) who still have alot to offer me as far as furthering my education and helping me refine my skills, but I think after this quarter or next I'm dropping out.
The only problem is that I have very VERY limited experience with photoshop and any 3d modeling programs. I mess around in Max at school and I take out a Wacom from the school when I can, but I'm not really sure if I can learn all I need to quite yet.
oof...
I would highly recommend leaving at this point while the opportunity ceases to be open. As is, the problem i've found otherwise is that these schools mostly specialize in film industry work. Not bad, but if it isn't you're cup of tea. They more than likely won't answer the or give the correct answers for the questions you have about the work you do. Nor will there critiques be of anything substancial to you working to grow to be a better artist.
As I found myself being told "wow great stuff matt, ect...while nothing relevant in the critique was measured to what I expressed I fancy'd most was "video games".
Be honest with yourself mate. If I could go back in time I would've left within my first 2 weeks of a refund.
I know a person here on polycount that basically graduated from highschool and found himself his first job at a good game company, and has been working ever since.
I hope my words have helped give you insight of someone who has paid the same price as you have paid. 2 1/2 years of attendance for a degree isn't worth it if you are still working on things you want to learn, and you know the places you can learn them from.
PS. Degree's are only handy if you want to work overseas in other countries where you have no citizenship/ for work visa's as far as i've come to find out.
Most of that $80,000 is probably going to some rich Ai CEO lol. Of about the 30 - 40 character and environment artists that graduated at our school each semester maybe 1 or 2 got art jobs right away and maybe a few more years later. Their high percentage employment rates are BS, they consider kids getting jobs in QA part of that which is most of that percentage.
CrazyMatt: I do plan on working in some other country besides the US at some point in time, so how exactly would a degree help me out if I should apply to a company overseas?
But the degree helps grant you as an outsider to places like the UK the ability for work visa. Otherwise without a degree in most cases, it's a royal pain the arse for the company you want to work for, work out the matters at hand to get you on a plane over to them for full-time work.
How long ago did they graduate, bounchfx?
uh, well two just got jobs here RIGHT after graduation about eight months ago, and there's a couple more that graduated 2-4 years ago. etc.
If I could go back and change the past with my stay. It would have been not to make my class assignments my #1 priority. As when I enrolled, I was much more advanced for any of the courses I was taking. But given I was a heavy duty modder on my free-time. It became hard to manage time and work budget between my classes that I actually cared for, and those that I didn't.
So if you are entering with enough knowledge that can be applied to good skill and have a firm idea what you are interested in achieving. Work as hard as you can, even if you've got 2 to 4 years before getting done. Because every day you waste while in a university or specific trade college for game/film. It's another day you will and I say "will" regret not utilizing to you're advantage.
So whenever you get class assignments, or better yet. Before taking you're core cirriculum courses. Find out as much as you can about them, the amount of days, what you will be learning for those days, ect.
In other words jump ahead of the game so when the class comes, you can easily pass it by turning in what's needed. But while working on free-time, or additional time in classes. Just work on what you want in you're final portfolio.
I've said enough :P, but again it's fun to go through.
But the biggest of worries i'd say is the after payments from the loans you take out.
I really dont understand these Institutes, they do offer focused training, which is awesome - but art and inspiration does not ever only come from a focused place. You need to discover things in books, ancient paintings, the psychological bullshit structure of people's actions, biological makeups of things and how stuff works, and onward and outward into the vast number of topics you could encounter at a full-fledged school.
I dont think that most colleges are near the cost what you are describing... but i guess these days the numbers could be similar, but the value of the education would be far superior. Plus - being in college is cool. Booze, Boobs, tons of people whom you'd probably NEVER meet anywhere else, and all around great experiences.
Then again; you get out of what you put into it. If the teachers/instructors are "teaching you things you already know," you may be in the wrong mindset already. A lot of things you will learn, you will probably already know. These schools and "higher learning" are just as much about figuring out and being taught new things as it is your personal discovery into what you are learning, not how its coming at you. I'm not suggesting you're a slackjaw; just saying that a common misconception i hear all the time is that people aren't happy with their professors or school. It isn't their fault you're failing, it is your own
good luck with what you decide to do, i say boobs and beer + books = good art bank stuff. Lots of computers and techy stuff = boring art stuff. :P
As far as "needing" a degree for an Artist position somewhere, it isnt *really*necessary - but based on the level of the degree it will show a lot about your character, and work ethic up front. The only reason i'd suggest it is for personal development and maturity - but if your work speaks for itself loudly there shouldnt be a need.
From looking at the few links you posted there, i think you just need to buckle down and work harder; be more critical of your work. You may need to find someone/somewhere to be hypercritical for you (heh, polycount is pretty good at it), instead of people looking at it and saying "whoa its the Joker lol! thats cool!" You have some cool looking stuff, but it all just appears unpolished and thrown together. Push yourself
On a serious note, I read what you're writing and it makes sense. I especially agree about pushing yourself and really digging into much more then just the technical side of things. Its easy to get trapped in the technical side of art, much more so when you toss more technology on problem. A lot of ho-hum artists (myself included) find all kinds of ways to avoid growing artistically by making busy work of learning technical nuts and bolts.
I think you hit on something big, people who are naturally curious and artistically inclined make for some of the best artists in the industry, provided they don't bunker down with a years worth of tech manuals and forget about what makes great art and artists greater.
I know this is especially true for me, whenever I work on traditional art everything else improves, I don't do it nearly as much as I should and because of it, I haven't progressed like I should in some areas, but I still see the effects. I've also learned more about animation by observing things while I'm out and about, then I ever have sitting in front of the devil box.
- lol, yup I learned more from polycount, books, and friends than the school I went too that cost me $20,000 for 2year degree.
"I can show you how to get boobs, beer, books and a few heaping helpings of life experience, without blowing a fat wad of cash" -Vig
- wtf hahaha
this is very true, I didnt realise how much overlap there is from traditional to digital and vice versa. For example last weekend I made a 3D winnie the pooh sculpt, I had to really study pooh bear images on google to get it right haha. Then today 2 days later I was sketching and just came out with 2 sketches of winnie the pooh from different angles without even trying or looking at reference and people could instantly recognise him. Its like its all in there connected somehow.
Exchange rates at the moment aren't what they were a few years ago. The total schooling cost for all 3 years of fine arts at RMIT as a full fee paying student would be $56,160 australian dollars. That's $36,380.45 US dollars.
Thats not the government subsidised cost. That's the real cost for a foreign student as of this year. I got my info from here:
http://www.international.rmit.edu.au/info/programfees.asp
Rent and so on would also be cheaper unless you can attend a US school without moving out of your parents house.
Honestly I think the hardest part will be to cut back on CoD4