Bearded Tree

DrHkl

Hi all this is my first time posting here, but I've been aware of the site for a long time. I've been working on this piece for awhile now and needed some input as to how to improve it.

http://i464.photobucket.com/albums/rr8/PimpaliciousSupreme-O-Bomb/Render2.jpg,
http://i464.photobucket.com/albums/rr8/PimpaliciousSupreme-O-Bomb/MoMFull06.jpg,
http://i464.photobucket.com/albums/rr8/PimpaliciousSupreme-O-Bomb/Render3.jpg,
http://i464.photobucket.com/albums/rr8/PimpaliciousSupreme-O-Bomb/bark.jpg,
http://i464.photobucket.com/albums/rr8/PimpaliciousSupreme-O-Bomb/PropSheet.jpg

j4polaris

You're off to a good start DrHkl. I would suggest working on the model a little to get a bit more of the "scraggly" details in the trunk and branches. It looks a little too smooth.

I wasn't sure what kind of style you were going for, but overrall your textures don't have a whole lot of contrast compared to the concept art you used as a guide. Changing up some of the wood textures for a high-contrast, rough bark texture could help a lot. A good test is to stand across the room from your computer screen and take a look at your model. If you can't tell what your texture looks like, then you need to add more larger elements of contrast.

One last crit for you regarding your last texture page. You've got a heck of a lot of empty, wasted space. Try to move your different elements a little closer together on the page. A lot of games spend most of their memory on textures, so getting in the habit of being as efficient as possible will get you far.

Hope it helps!

Michael Knubben

The texture-layout is really overly wasteful, but much more importantly than that, it looks as if you just grabbed textures left and right and tried to apply them all to the same model. The leaves are handpainted, but then I look at the branches and tree-bark, and it's really simplistic and filter-like?
I don't mean to point fingers, and don't pay too much attention to this if I'm wrong, but did you paint all of this yourself? The one larger leaf even seems to have a lighter edge around it from where it was clipped from.

DrHkl

Oh yeah, the bark started as a carpet texture to get the chainlink or diamond pattern. I painted over it to make it a lot less 'manufactured'. Then I did several layers inside the lighter part stepping up in grayscale to give it highlights and did the same downward to give lowlights. Then I found a tree bark texture offset and high filtered it and put it as the base. I got another black and white "cracks" layer and overlayed that on the bark to try and get some more height and depth out of the basic bark. Then I layed a color picked from the reference (the indented part of the bark) over it. Then I layed the chainlink pattern over that and gave it a color overlay picked from the reference (the high part of the bark). Despite all that it still looked flat on the tree; even with a normal map made by the Nvidia Photoshop tools. So I created 2 'trees' and 2 textures. The smaller bottom tree has just the dark brown bark and the larger outer tree has the light bark and an alpha to show through to the smaller tree. There's actually a 3rd tree of lichen and grime over the unwrap seams of the 1st 2 trees to hide them, but it doesn't read very well.

Indecom

dont be afraid to pull colors from the image to use as reference in your texture. Try playing with vertex colring also to break up the monotony your texture is creating. At the moment its much to bright and chipper for a tree full of decapitated heads and gore.

Michael Knubben

What I really meant was that there is so much inconsistency between your leaves and the rest of your texture that I'd be inclined to think someone else may have made the leaves.
If that's not the case, tell me. It's just that there is a real lack of consistency throughout the entire texture sheet.

DrHkl

Yes I took the leaf off the reference; finagled it in size and direction to create the leaf bunches; then created a 'blob' of six colors picked from the leaves in the reference to overlay on the bunches. The hair, skull and branches are straight hand painted. The statue was made from 6 layers consisting of a base color, concrete, an overlay, concrete with cracks, my hand painted bevel/emboss layer and a lichen grime layer. The layout was based on easily laying single rectangular polys on the unwrap without getting another branch showing up. It was a pain doing the leaf bunches; so I made the branches easier to handle. It ended up keeping me from putting a "dismembered/decaying head" piece in the scene and on the tree.

DrHkl

I mean on the texture sheet.

SHEPEIRO

yep that bark texture really lets it down, it needs some variation in the shape, i would have hand painted from the start as using a geometric pattern to begin with shows in the final and looks... well too geometric.
also paint some lighting into the back so that we get more of an impression that the pale bits stick out, rather than using duplicate [polys and an alpha as that would be expensive in game and it would look better painted.

also post images vertically

Justin Meisse

Minimize your photosourcing and concentrate on your texture painting skills.

It also looks like you duplicated the tree, put a push modifier on it and then put the criss-crossing pattern with an alpha - don't do that.

there's an in game picture here on HammerWiki

DrHkl

Ok here's what I've done based on what a Rude friend suggested and showed me this weekend.

I've pushed the highlights and lowlights on the base bark then used the 3 orange/red colors from the leaf palette on the bottom bark then used the 3 greens and twisted the top part through a clipping mask...is there any suggestions on how to make the top part look better?

http://i464.photobucket.com/albums/rr8/PimpaliciousSupreme-O-Bomb/bark2.jpg

http://i464.photobucket.com/albums/rr8/PimpaliciousSupreme-O-Bomb/Render4.jpg

SHEPEIRO

that bark texture is awful possibly worse than the first. dont use photoshop layer efects for something like this hand paint it. if you dont know how find some similar game textures and study them.

cholden

Paint your textures. This is the approach you should be using to a piece like this (you can still tile, I'm talking about the painted style)
http://ryanhastings.com/treegate.html
If the texture doesn't look good before you overlay googled images, it won't look good after.

Also, edit your original post and change your images to thumbnails or links to the images. You've so broken this forum with your massive images that it's impossible to follow this thread.

DrHkl

Alrighty, here's what I 've got now. Yes there is a drop shadow on it, but it's not the only thing on there creating the shadows. I added another lowlights layer, used the base green layer as a clipping mask for the original bark (from the first bark texture though I did turn it upside down) to give the green parts a bark texture within it. It's got 2 more green layers on top for mid levels and highlights as well...I'm working on the prop sheet's layout now. Is there anything more I should do to the bark?

http://s464.photobucket.com/albums/rr8/PimpaliciousSupreme-O-Bomb/?action=view&current=bark2-1.jpg

http://s464.photobucket.com/albums/rr8/PimpaliciousSupreme-O-Bomb/?action=view&current=Render5.jpg

Neox

improve your lighting, really thats pushing it down way too much

Em.

Is that screen cap fullbright? If it's not, I'd like to see what it looks like fullbright. The texture is getting better though, keep looking at WAR screenshots and keep it up.

DrHkl

Okay here's what I've done so far...increased the lighting; lightened, contrasted & desaturated the bark texture; moved and improved the branches on the prop sheet; added fallen leaves; modeled a dismembered head to fill the space available on the prop sheet. Next steps: unwrap & paint dismembered head; disperse head in composition; fill empty space on prop sheet with more hair pieces or gore (thinking hanging eyeball from head). Any thoughts?

http://i464.photobucket.com/albums/rr8/PimpaliciousSupreme-O-Bomb/Render8.jpg

http://i464.photobucket.com/albums/rr8/PimpaliciousSupreme-O-Bomb/bark3.jpg


http://i464.photobucket.com/albums/rr8/PimpaliciousSupreme-O-Bomb/PropSheet2.jpg


http://i464.photobucket.com/albums/rr8/PimpaliciousSupreme-O-Bomb/HangingHeadL.jpg


http://i464.photobucket.com/albums/rr8/PimpaliciousSupreme-O-Bomb/HangingHeadF.jpg

DrHkl

K re-did the previous hair pieces (diffuse and alpha), added a moss stump outer piece with a 256 texture and an alpha, switched up some colors and re-painted leaves, re-darkened the lost lowlights from my last play with the bark, tweaked the placement of some props and half way through texturing dismembered head. Still to come: finish head texture, individualize hanging heads, small bone pieces (model & texture). Any input?

http://i464.photobucket.com/albums/rr8/PimpaliciousSupreme-O-Bomb/Render9.jpg


http://i464.photobucket.com/albums/rr8/PimpaliciousSupreme-O-Bomb/PropSheet3.jpg

http://i464.photobucket.com/albums/rr8/PimpaliciousSupreme-O-Bomb/Moss.jpg

DrHkl

Alrighty, nearly finished painting severed head texture (painting hair on the diffuse and alpha is a pain!), added more color to leaves, added a grass element (although they can hardly be seen from my camera's view), added a mud terrain, modeled a femur and a finger bone prop, and fiddled/twisted/scaled/polished various pieces on the tree to make a better composition. Next steps: finish beard texture and alpha for dismembered head, texture bone elements, add more of the bone elements to various parts of the tree. I'd really like to hear some feedback...I've posted twice and haven't heard anything. Anyone?
http://i464.photobucket.com/albums/rr8/PimpaliciousSupreme-O-Bomb/Render11.jpg

http://i464.photobucket.com/albums/rr8/PimpaliciousSupreme-O-Bomb/PropSheet4.jpg

DrHkl

Alrighty, nearly finished painting severed head texture (painting hair on the diffuse and alpha is a pain!), added more color to leaves, added a grass element (although they can hardly be seen from my camera's view), added a mud terrain, modeled a femur and a finger bone prop, and fiddled/twisted/scaled/polished various pieces on the tree to make a better composition. Next steps: finish beard texture and alpha for dismembered head, texture bone elements, add more of the bone elements to various parts of the tree. I'd really like to hear some feedback...I've posted twice and haven't heard anything. Anyone?

http://i464.photobucket.com/albums/rr8/PimpaliciousSupreme-O-Bomb/Render11.jpg

http://i464.photobucket.com/albums/rr8/PimpaliciousSupreme-O-Bomb/PropSheet4.jpg

michi.be

Why is this skull so large comapred to the trunk and leaves?

DrHkl

cause it's a thick, broad dwarf's skull...

Wells

pretty sure he meant the texture space, not the physical model

Justin Meisse

Pixel Density > number of texture pixels per game unit. Here's what I do:
finish you model, reset xforms, then box map it at half the texture resolution (if I'm doing 2 pixels per max unit).

or you can just make a box and do what I said above, throw a checker pattern on the box and your model and just eyeball it so the checkers on your model are the same size as your box.

THROW OUT YOUR CURRENT TEXTURES AND UVS
start over from the UV stage, you can make due with one branch texture and one leaf cluster texture, that's what most of the Warhammer trees use:
tiling bark, branch, leaves

you can have an extra sheet for all the skulls and shit

you aren't going to get any more critiques unless you get really serious on this model, I'm pretty sure everyone feels like you aren't listening to them and are just giving up on the thread. You are going to have to wow everyone with your next post.

cholden

Stop, collaborate and listen or hammertime, whichever you prefer

#1 to making WAR art; learn to paint a skull. Everything ever in Warhammer has skulls on it. This will always be your foe until you conquer it.

DrHkl

To clarify: 1 512x512 tiling bark, 1 512x512 branch & leaf, 1 512x512 remaining props.(?)

My branches were using the tiled bark texture ramped up to be far smaller on them than the trunk. I used the shapes I painted as a mask to make them the shapes of the various branches from the concept. I also picked out the major shapes of the leaf bunches in the concept and used that as a guide when I made them. This is incorrect? Only 1 leaf bunch and 1 type of branch for the whole tree?

I want to "wow" and be able to put this on my website (under construction). I have been listening...hand paint not photosource, improve my lighting. I checked out the links provided. I didn't particularly care for the Hastings piece. If it weren't called treegate or had some other periphery clues, I'd have thought it was 2 giant masses of muscle, vein and sinew. I thought I understood what you were trying to convey to me and I've just come to realize how much farther that advice goes. This is the first I've heard of a problem with the UVs other than wasteful placement on the sheet. I wish someone would have stopped me a week & a half ago and said they were a problem. I am serious about this model and I haven't given up, in fact I thought everyone else had given up on me. Please give me a little more direction as to specs & what is correct in the UV layout sheets so I can get back to work for wowing.

Vadien

Pardon my late entry. Could we see a flat of the bark texture as well? I think it could benefit from a paint over.

The leaves are hurting. As you said you took the shape from the concept to make the leaf bunches on your texture flat. What should really be going is you make a collection of leaves that look more realistic with alpha on your texture sheet and apply that to planes then arrange a bunch of planes to fit the shape of the bunches from the concept. Like this...



You would take this texture and apply to it a plane then make multiples of that plane to create a bushy look with the leaves to what ever shape you want. The way it is now looks like its from a story book.

Warhammer is a gray line between realistic and cartoony so its hard to get it right some times. What we did a lot of times was paint a texture then use a photo to pop out some detail.

DrHkl

Thanks for the advice. I may go back and do that or remember it for my next piece. Anyway, here's what I have so far...I still need to finish painting the face of the statue, the hanging head's beard then individualize the remaining heads. I feel it's nearly done...

http://i464.photobucket.com/albums/rr8/PimpaliciousSupreme-O-Bomb/bark6.jpg
http://i464.photobucket.com/albums/rr8/PimpaliciousSupreme-O-Bomb/PropSheet6.jpg
http://i464.photobucket.com/albums/rr8/PimpaliciousSupreme-O-Bomb/Render18.jpg

DrHkl

Alright here's the last...