Agreed with Mangled; obviously there's going to be debate (as there should be). The reason for my comment was every time you've posted on the political threads it's been extremely one sided with "McCain won that debate." Being as it's quite apparent that most people on here are anti-Palin/McCain, we're going to prod you for actual arguments on why you support that party so we're not sitting here playing with ourselves and giving each other high fives .
But, ultimatly Palin won it for me. Her points are easy for me to agree with.
You're just extremely simple minded and frightening. Provide clear reasoning for your support (instead of short troll statements), and maybe we'll understand your unique perspective on reality. Or perhaps be entertained.
Ephesians you are doing nothing wrong man.... You just have to realize what forum you are posting your opinion on and realize that 80% of the people here are automatically going to prolly differ from your opinions.
You are seeing the tail end of the long attempt at having people like Jonathan and Ephesians provide rationale and partake in a reasonable discussion. This has been going on for months now, and Jonathan finally has conceded he doesn't actually like Republicans but votes for social issues, like abortion and fag marriage- which is funny since Republicans have been in control of all three branches of Congress and nothing was done to 'solve' the issue. Ephesians hasn't even admitted that much, but continues to make those short one liners and then whine that he is being attacked when people demand an explanation.
Fair enough I am not a huge fan of Palin, but I thought she did a good job. By good job I mean she did not make a train wreck of herself tonight like most of the world was expecting. Yes, she dodged some questions but hell every good debater does that.
Ephesians hasn't even admitted that much, but continues to make those short one liners and then whine that he is being attacked when people demand an explanation.
He stated his opinion in a completely non-inflammatory way. I thought the general reaction to his post was pretty funny in its vehemence.
Ephesians seemed to me like an obvious attempt to stir up arguments. If not, then make clear what points she made that you agreed with. She basically didn't say ANYTHING throughout that whole debate. It was painful to watch her repeat the same keywords over and over again. I know Biden did at times too, but he at least had some substance to his points. She was obviously told to attack him about 'change/looking forward' any time he brought up Bush. He's referencing Bush because McCain and Bush are secret lovers who slap each others asses each time the screw America for the last 8 years.
Sad thing is, I liked McCain pre-2000. Then he started polishing the Republican party's knob and hasn't stopped since. Then he picks an airhead for a running mate and that cemented my opinion. I liked McCain better when he was truly a maverick and drifting between party lines.
As a final note, ask Goose what he thinks of Maverick :P
this is the AGM-65 maverick missile, it is the largest and most powerful tank-busting missile in the world, and is capable of knocking out any ground vehicle at fairly large ranges.
I don't know if it's the right thread to post this in, as it is not related to the running mates directly but to the ending of bush's time. Lead article from germany's most important news-paper (in english). Best read in a long time on transatlantic politic bases.
Yeah... what ever you say (no matter how stupid)... you'll get clobbered. I mean... I should be able to say what I want in an interview and not asked a single question. Oh, and now I can finally remember the name of the magazines and papers I read... now that my advisors have told me of some good ones.
Man I want to punch this woman in her face... and I'm usually not like that. What a rediculous interview.
I'm Aware i am the minority in this forum as far as politics go, that said i am not expecting a warm applause or welcome to the following comments. Alot of yall had asked for me to extend my reasoning beying my previous one liner post.
My 10 cents
I'll admit, of course, i am Republican. Its highly unlikely I'll ever Vote Democrat if the Republican Party had completely lost it. In said case, I would just not vote. But this election is not said case. If any Republican is the following, they have my vote.
Republican (obviously)
(No Politician is 100% Honest so I'll say) Trust worthy on the issues
They Believe in smaller GOV with less interference in a citizens life.
In Relation to the war, Mc Cain supports a reasonable pullout strategy that does not mean an unstable Iraq or a lost war. I believe the current path with the Iraq war is the right one. Yes there is Afghanistan and Afghanistan is still important but involvement in Iraq is what has kept muslim terroristic extremist at bay these last 7 years. (For the argument: Don't let my dead son die in Vane, and Don't let my son get killed. For me those are legitimate feelings and 2 sides of the same coin.)
The following point ultimatly wins my republican Vote, But i'll keep going:
They believe in capitalism and not socialism (I'm not a fan of GOV handouts to those in this country who screw up, make bad finacial decisions, who are lazy or who will not work for them selves. I believe you have to work for the rewards in life.
Socialistic proposals are not financialy feasible or smart. Plus such attempts have been proven faulty and have resulted in failures in the past.) http://www.fff.org/freedom/0393b.asp
Mc Cain has enough political and military service experience to Lead this country in the right direction. He has the appropriate War experience to deal with current issues over seas. His Resume alone is Impressive.
Senate Navy Liaison, 1977-1981
Captain, United States Navy, Vietnam, 1958-1981
Senator, United States Senate, Arizona, 1987-present - 21 years
National Security Adviser, Dole/Kemp Presidential Campaign, 1996
Representative, United States House of Representatives, 1982-1986.
Not to mention the many organizations he was or is apart of on a global scale.
Organization's like:
Council on Foreign Relations
or
Pacific Council on International Policy
I don't think Obama keeps up. He's too inexperienced and young to know what he is doing in office. I would not want a president that had to learn his job while in office.
Zero Military experience
Too young
His Polital Experience is severely lacking by comparison.
Senator, United States Senate, 2005-present
Keynote Speaker, 2004 Democratic National Convention
Senator, Illinois State Senate, 1996-2004.
He knows how to say "I told you so" in relation to the Iraq. ( I suppose thats important)
Obama is word savvy, eloquent and punctual. He is a better speaker than Mc Cain or Bush. But he's got nothing in terms of credentials to do the Job. Interestingly enough, even if Palin seems like she does not answer questions given in media interviews, neither does obama. His Answer to Rick Warrens Question regarding Abortion is an example of slight of hand diverted answers.
As far is the war goes Obama is full of Heinsite opinions that relate to the "i told you so" metality but offer nothing in terms of "Realistic" solutions.
The only upside to obama ,that i can see, is his chance to be the first Half White /Half Black presedent. Thats cool, but it's not enough.
I think he would be a much more appealing candidate in about 12 to 15 years. He needs more foreign Policy under his belt.
But, even if he was experienced, this little interview below is alittle scary. His statment could be a mistake. But then again, it could not.
Don't let my dead son die in Vane, and Don't let my son get killed.
in my opinion, soldiers in a case like this, do not die in vain. they are doing their duty as a soldier. i'm personally against war, but sadly realize its necessity in the world i live in. i feel that the people giving the orders are the ones being entrusted with making the right choices and ultimately should be held responsible.
you say you've lost a son? you also mention, not to let your son get killed? i'm assuming you've lost a son and have another currently enlisted?
... this little interview below is alittle scary. His statment could be a mistake. But then again, it could not.
i'm assuming you mean where he says,
Obama: "John McCain has not talked about my Muslim faith"
Interviewer: "Christian faith"
"Christian faith..."
"Well what I'm saying is, he's suggested that I'm a Muslim"
Ooh man! If that was a mistake, that was a major blunder indeed.
If it's a lie, that isn't cool. I could imagine a scenario where a candidate would want to keep that secret. I'm not sure how they could... he'd be an EXCELLENT liar if he was lying! he didn't flinch. If it's a rumor, saying it the way he did was a major score for whomever started it. I'd love to know for sure.
Bible Boy, I want to quickly and clearly answer three points you've made now. Because, it's late, and I've wasted enough time. I'll number your points, paraphrased, and give a short response. Because I don't copy and paste my beliefs, like yourself.
1. "I will vote for a Repulican no matter what, or I simply won't vote"
This shows your closed-minded method of decision making. "There is no decision." You stick to the path that have been set for you no matter where it leads, or you deny responsibility. Also your hypocrisy. You're more than willing to vote for a party that is more than willing to contradict your 3rd requirement, as it has, as long as it meets the first. Obviously.
2. "The President should have an impressive military career experience to deal with matters overseas"
The problem with this stems from the fact, there should be no matters overseas. Our military should not be in the middle east. Our military is not defending our freedom, they're diefending our interests. A military is organized to defend against perceived threats. If we're fighting to defend, why hasn't a single battle taken place on American soil? Our military occupied the Middle East prior to 2001. It continues to today. And with any small attempt from the governments, corporations, and media to cook up a reason they should stay there and feed it to the population in ways which cause fear...they will remain there indefinitely. The source of conflict must be addressed, not the symptoms. The military is irrelevant to a position that wants a change for the better. I have to assume that you would also blindly support any Republican leaders decision to make a judgement that leads to the end the technological world as we know it, for faith. That makes your beliefs, dangerous, and a threat to this world. War should be a last resort. And a ground war on an idea should never be considered. That is the very definition of propaganda.
3. "OBAMA IS DARK SIDED!!!"
I watched your video link. I couldn't determine what part you found scary. Then, after reading kp's assumption, it's not beyond you. Obama slipped and said "John McCain has not talked about my Muslim faith". In the context of each party flaming the other. Which was easily misinterpreted, and immediately explained what he meant. Look at this this way. What if he had said, "John McCain has not talked about my Christian faith." That would also not make sense. But lets not argue about the meanings of sentences. The point here you've made is...your greatest fear of Obama himself, is the completely fictional possibility that he may not be a god fearing Christian. Instead...he may be an Islamic Extremist. Or, the Anti-Christ. Perhaps he, encourages gays, and endorses orgies. Am I being subtle enough in pointing out your own blind stupidity? He attends church. Is married and has two daughters, that I assume attend church. I have to assume it was a Catholic wedding, as he is Catholic. He and his family celebrate Thanksgiving and Christmas. Which, in good ol' US of A, is more than you need to call yourself a Christian. This response of course depends on your fear of the "Muslim" slip-up. Otherwise, I've typed way to much and will feel really stupid in the morning. Hopefully I won't be late for Church. God Bless.
regarding your 3rd point, ElysiumGX, to be fair, i don't think the reason pointing out what Obama had said in the interview was trying to point out the fact he was Muslim. it very well would matter for some if he really was, but i think what he was trying for, was that he'd be caught lying straight to the face of America. Although you could say "they all are liars", regardless, you don't want a leader that lies. i honestly don't think he is Muslim and this is just mud-slinging, but hey, i don't know. i think it isn't incriminating enough for me to change my opinion of either candidate.
The only thing I'd add is that in no way whatsoever should military experience be some pseudo-facto requirement for president. Bush had a pansy-ass record. And when it came time to do something? He went AWAL. The generals make the military decisions - the president simply approves/declines them. That's how it's always been.
If people believe Obama is too young and inexperienced then how in the hell do they think Palin is a good choice for VP?
VP is the second highest position of power in the US... I do not want some soccer mom on a moral high horse in that position. If I did then I would vote for any of the other thousands that go to Wal-Mart every day.
Voting on moral/religious reasons can be as bad.. *Candidate A* hates gays, loves the military, thinks abortion is murder no matter the circumstance, thinks every American should own a gun and hates 'towel-heads'. That makes *Candidate A* a great choice... cause God made it their destiny.
*rolls eyes*
Don't get me wrong, McCain would have been a great choice.... *8* years ago..
Republicans have fucked this country up, especially as of late. They have been in office since 1980 (minus 8 years with Clinton, who got this country's economy several billion in the green).. 20 of the past 28 years.
I'm not saying Obama will make us a perfect country but I think he can at least slow this downward spiral we are in. Some stabilization...
I don't care which party wins ultimately.. I don't care what religion they are. I don't care thier skin color. I don't care about thier political or military experience
I just want to be able to turn on the news and not be bombarded with bullshit, hate and hopelessness. I want to hear 'Hey people, we're doing alright.'
Bible Boy, I want to quickly and clearly answer three points you've made now. Because, it's late, and I've wasted enough time. I'll number your points, paraphrased, and give a short response. Because I don't copy and paste my beliefs, like yourself.
1. "I will vote for a Repulican no matter what, or I simply won't vote"
This shows your closed-minded method of decision making. "There is no decision." You stick to the path that have been set for you no matter where it leads, or you deny responsibility. Also your hypocrisy. You're more than willing to vote for a party that is more than willing to contradict your 3rd requirement, as it has, as long as it meets the first. Obviously.
2. "The President should have an impressive military career experience to deal with matters overseas"
The problem with this stems from the fact, there should be no matters overseas. Our military should not be in the middle east. Our military is not defending our freedom, they're diefending our interests. A military is organized to defend against perceived threats. If we're fighting to defend, why hasn't a single battle taken place on American soil? Our military occupied the Middle East prior to 2001. It continues to today. And with any small attempt from the governments, corporations, and media to cook up a reason they should stay there and feed it to the population in ways which cause fear...they will remain there indefinitely. The source of conflict must be addressed, not the symptoms. The military is irrelevant to a position that wants a change for the better. I have to assume that you would also blindly support any Republican leaders decision to make a judgement that leads to the end the technological world as we know it, for faith. That makes your beliefs, dangerous, and a threat to this world. War should be a last resort. And a ground war on an idea should never be considered. That is the very definition of propaganda.
3. "OBAMA IS DARK SIDED!!!"
I watched your video link. I couldn't determine what part you found scary. Then, after reading kp's assumption, it's not beyond you. Obama slipped and said "John McCain has not talked about my Muslim faith". In the context of each party flaming the other. Which was easily misinterpreted, and immediately explained what he meant. Look at this this way. What if he had said, "John McCain has not talked about my Christian faith." That would also not make sense. But lets not argue about the meanings of sentences. The point here you've made is...your greatest fear of Obama himself, is the completely fictional possibility that he may not be a god fearing Christian. Instead...he may be an Islamic Extremist. Or, the Anti-Christ. Perhaps he, encourages gays, and endorses orgies. Am I being subtle enough in pointing out your own blind stupidity? He attends church. Is married and has two daughters, that I assume attend church. I have to assume it was a Catholic wedding, as he is Catholic. He and his family celebrate Thanksgiving and Christmas. Which, in good ol' US of A, is more than you need to call yourself a Christian. This response of course depends on your fear of the "Muslim" slip-up. Otherwise, I've typed way to much and will feel really stupid in the morning. Hopefully I won't be late for Church. God Bless.
I expected a responce along those lines. I Expressed my views with in the confines of the topic of this thread. I neither attacked or critized anyone here. I answered the continual call for me to explain my reasoning further. But your personal atacks, the ridicules and belitling? And for what? Having views not in step with the 80 percentile of this forum?? Having an avatar that expresses my faith?
I'm sorry for upsetting you. I don't like it when my own words upset others, but i still believe what i believe Politically.
And which god is that? Allah? Christ? Buddha? Ra? Kami? Zeus? Lucifer? I won't stray into a religion rant, but come on.
No one is going to help us Eph. We have to help ourselves. With that in mind, I'd rather choose the person who will do better for the country, not what I personally believe in. You have said several times now that you'd vote Republican even if you didn't like the person.
You're saying you'd rather vote for someone you dislike and would probably lead the country into further chaos, SOLEY because you won't vote democrat (even if it were to help the country). That kind of blind sided stupidity is why you get flamed, not because you stated your opinion.
"I'll admit, of course, i am Republican. Its highly unlikely I'll ever Vote Democrat if the Republican Party had completely lost it. In said case, I would just not vote. But this election is not said case. If any Republican is the following, they have my vote."
Then i listed my reasons for the ideal Republican Canidate and why the current runners get my vote.
I said i would "not vote" if the Republican Party went bad. I did not say i would vote for the wrong party or the wrong person. In any case, as i also stated, i stand against the views of the left because the left seems consumed with socialism.
If a Dem had non Socialistic views and steared more towards the betterment of mankind thorugh hard work and capitalism, then that might be diffent but as it stands with the current left, i'm all republican based on the socialistic aspec.
i've not seen any democrat elected into office who had any sort of socialist views at all. i'm a social democrat and i think that even obama is more right than left, albeit far more to the middle than mccain.
I said i would "not vote" if the Republican Party went bad. I did not say i would vote for the wrong party or the wrong person. In any case, as i also stated, i stand against the views of the left because the left seems consumed with socialism.
If a Dem had non Socialistic views and steared more towards the betterment of mankind thorugh hard work and capitalism, then that might be diffent but as it stands with the current left, i'm all republican based on the socialistic aspec.
Just out of curiousity, you realize that the democrats are actually not that socialist in the grand view, right? They're actually still pretty damn Capitalist.
You also realize that hard work can occur every bit as much in a socialist system as in a capitalist one, right? And that if used properly socialism can be used in conjunction with capitalism to create higher quality of life, right?
In fact, do you realize that economics are not black and white? You can actually have a bit of both. Lots of places do it. In fact, if you look at the quality of life surveys world wide, the US is low on the list, being beat out all over by countries with more socialist systems.
I stand against the views of the left because the left seems consumed with socialism
How do you feel about the biggest socialist bailout? Purposed and sponsored by Republican President Bush and Republican president hopeful McCain? You can't pin the bail out on the dems, it was forced on them with scare tactics and the standard "gimmie a blank check" attitude from the white house. How is it that republicans can have capitalism during the good times then when things start to turn ugly they run for socialism? You can't have your cake and eat it too.
The GOP looks really wishy washy right now and after 8 years of a do noting right GOP congress which the mavrick was a part of, you still want to stand by the GOP?
Put your blind faith in God, not the worst kind of humans imaginable.
The GOP has blown it big and them putting the mavrick on the ticket just shows how desperate they are to cling to power. McCain has been a thorn in their side ever since he joined. Him being on the ticket and his speeches about "change" is omission that they've botched it royally. We fence sitters are supposed to buy into "the GOP wrecked it, but the GOP will fix it? No seriously this time we will I know we said we would 4 years ago, but this time we're not lieing."
I was on the fence until he picked Palin not because she was the best but because she was female and might pick up a few Hillary supporters and "look we have a first too!". That's taking a serious campaign and turning into a side show.
I don't swear allegiance to any party and would never follow any one person or party blindly, if and when you let them know that, they often use it in their best interest not yours.
As for the war being the right direction, lets give the Iraqi people some credit too, the Mahdi army cease fire, and ethnic divide and the Sons of Iraq, did more the quell violence then the surge. At any moment the Iraqi people could turn on the American army and the war would be lost. Our army is not strong enough to occupy Iraq properly, we never prepared for it and we never expected it. That's a serious oversight by the GOP. And McCain hasn't shown any intention of deviating from that course. In fact he's shown his ignorance by touting the success of the surge again and again as the only stabilizing force. If he's not going to be open to alternative suggestions and is going to stick to his own way of doing things then we have more of what we are about to get rid of.
Perhaps if we didn't rush into the war we might have had time to prepare properly and go in with the right number of troops to begin with. I can't stand by a party that uses fear and peoples patriotism and faith as tools of destruction on other people who never deserved it. Maybe if we didn't rush to war we could have actually made our case to the Iraqi people and they would have understood and actually greeted us as liberators instead of invaders.
Going back to socialism, do some research on why your party is against socialized health care but supports medicare, social security and what about taxes if thats not a form of socialism then what is? If you're really agaist socialism and it ills then demand that your party stamp it out completely. You can't use it as a crutch and then try to beat the other side with it.
While you're at it also read up on governments in other countries how their healthcare runs and how well the government takes care of its people. You'll find the war on socialism is more class warfare then anything else.
Whatever experience some believe Obama may lack, Biden makes up for. And it's good to know he will play an active role in this country's leadership...instead of its demise (Dick). Whatever leadership experience McCain had to his credibility, was shot down with his choice of Palin. Who will most likely play no important role in her position. Oil drilling. First Ladies have done more good than she will. Leaving McCain to COMMAND THAT ARMY TO VICTORY OVER...SOMETHING! WOOOO!!!
Ok, more buzzwords from the Republicans. Time to do some research. Man oh man this shit never ends.
“Well, I was reading my copy of today’s New York Times and...
Hey, she found one! (someone found it for her)
I was interested to read about Barack’s friends from Chicago...Turns out one of Barack’s earliest supporters is a man who, according to The New York Times, and they are hardly ever wrong, was a domestic terrorist and part of a group that, quote, launched a campaign of bombings that would target the Pentagon and U.S. Capitol. Wow. "
Radical activists during the 60's, during the Vietnam War, are now considered terrorist? Man they love that word. Bill Ayers is currently a Distinguished Professor of Social Justice at the University of Chicago. How many people has he killed? Obama, in the 90's, taught constitutional law at the University of Chicago Law School. 20 years after the end of the Vietnam War.
Ok, fun game. In 1984, Palin was in a Swimsuit Competition for Miss Alaska. Swimsuit. Alaska. Wtf?
Holy shit man, can we get a censor warning on stuff like that first? O.O That's one of the scariest things I've seen in a long time... Extremists of any kind freak the hell out of me. It doesn't matter for what religion or group, they're all scary and messed as hell. Those poor children!! I just wanna give them some dark clothing and offer them episodes from a messed up anime or something and tell them, there there, this is a better way...
I gotta say, I couldn't help laughing on the attack on Harry Potter. People who see innocent fiction that way are just so... scary...
But back on topic... if Palin is at all like this, than that's just a little too disturbing to fathom, with her in a spot for such potential power.
It's very sad. I've seen this movie acutally. Or rather documentary. Its a poor demonstration or "representaion" of a Christian or "Believer in Jesus Christ". The leadership in that video are from a cult like denomination of christanity called Peny Cost which fall under that group of people that take the bible out of contex. Stuff like picking up rattle snakes because there's a verse saying "take up serpents in faith". I feel sorry for those children and pitty the leadership for there brain washing mis interpretation of what is ment to represent truth in and of life.
Your right, that video is creepy and sad and it saddens me to this day. Please don't let your perception of a christan be defined by that video.
And also, I don't think Mc Cain nor Palin are like that. Do you think they are?
How much does this woman get paid to do this? She "hears" the word of god? In Christian literacy (bible) the voice of god would physically destroy a person. So she's contradicting herself right there. What a fucking flake.
Mezz, Palin does in fact come from a stream of Christian extremism not unlike those in the video. She's been a member of the Dominionist movement. The dominionists are no better than these so called "terrorists" we face today. They see it as their god given right to create a society of Christians. Even to the extent of violently purging non-believers from their ranks (general US population). It's "gods will" to make the entire world believe, no matter what. SCARY SHIT. Read up on it sometime.
I in no way think that this video represents Christians or those that believe in and follow Jesus. Hence, 'extremism'. Extremists are always messed, no matter for what religion they preach, but it always comes back down to 'we're the only one that are right, and everyone else should burn!'
I'm not Christian, but I honestly think Jesus would be saddened to see something like this.
I don't know if they're like this, but I've heard comments of Palin being of an extreme Christian group. I don't know the full truth of this, but I do hope its not true.
Edit: I posted this before I read Vassago's post. Yes, I thought I'd heard that, but I wanted to give the benefit of the doubt in thinking maybe she wasn't a Christian extremist... Then yes, that is scary.
Modeling, are you meaning Arabic rather than Muslim?
Utimatly, Arabic or Jew, (as far as Faith goes) i'd only vote for a Canidate that held the same Christian Values I hold. As a Christian i believe that to be very important in a Presidential Candidate.
Modeling, are you meaning Arabic rather than Muslim?
Utimatly, Arabic or Jew, (as far as Faith goes) i'd only vote for a Canidate that held the same Christian Values I hold. As a Christian i believe that to be very important in a Presidential Candidate.
... Now I am again questioning whether you are serious, or are just a troll playing with us all... I really hope your a troll, because I find it hard to believe anyone that stupidly ignorant has internet access.
Assuming you are serious... well, first off there is no Arabic faith. An Arab could be a Christian, Muslim, Jew, or whatever else. Just like an American could be.
Seriously man. Stop posting. Stop watching Fox News. Go out and read some books (other than the bible) or just do something to educate yourself. Here's somewhere to get started: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab
Tulkamir,
Thats well thought out advise. Your entitled my friend, as am I. Thank you for being so helpfull. I am open to new interpretation. Nothing should be set in stone as the athority of your life unless it makes sence to you. For example, not even 7 years ago i believed HELL existed, Homosexualality was wrong etc. I've since come to different conclutions which no longer support a scrutinizing additude towards such topics and it's all becuase i chose to use my brain and interprete for my self.
If you are interested, You should read the bible for your self. Do some research and come to you own theological interpretations and conclutions. Don't neccicarily take what a preacher or pastor or tv channel or internet news articles good or bad, (or me) as what is right or wrong. I would suggest you come to what ever truth you find for your self and make your own decisions.
The leadership in that video are from a cult like denomination of christanity called Peny Cost which fall under that group of people that take the bible out of contex.
Pentecostal Christians are not a cult. And those kids are not Pentecostal.
... Now I am again questioning whether you are serious, or are just a troll playing with us all... I really hope your a troll, because I find it hard to believe anyone that stupidly ignorant has internet access.
Assuming you are serious... well, first off there is no Arabic faith. An Arab could be a Christian, Muslim, Jew, or whatever else. Just like an American could be.
Seriously man. Stop posting. Stop watching Fox News. Go out and read some books (other than the bible) or just do something to educate yourself. Here's somewhere to get started: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab
This post makes you come off far worse than those 'Christians' that push their faith on everyone. Can you not accept that he wants to vote for someone with the same basic values that he follows? Really? The aggressiveness and amount of insult that goes into your rebuttals is not helping your cause. Let him have his point of view, regardless of whether you think it well informed or Fox newsy.
I disagree with him completely in just about everything he posts, but he has as much right as you do to express his opinions.
Modeling, are you meaning Arabic rather than Muslim?
Utimatly, Arabic or Jew, (as far as Faith goes) i'd only vote for a Canidate that held the same Christian Values I hold. As a Christian i believe that to be very important in a Presidential Candidate.
I don't understand this. Can you tell me what these 'Christian Values' are? I don't see how they're different from the ethics of anyone else.
Replies
You're just extremely simple minded and frightening. Provide clear reasoning for your support (instead of short troll statements), and maybe we'll understand your unique perspective on reality. Or perhaps be entertained.
You are seeing the tail end of the long attempt at having people like Jonathan and Ephesians provide rationale and partake in a reasonable discussion. This has been going on for months now, and Jonathan finally has conceded he doesn't actually like Republicans but votes for social issues, like abortion and fag marriage- which is funny since Republicans have been in control of all three branches of Congress and nothing was done to 'solve' the issue. Ephesians hasn't even admitted that much, but continues to make those short one liners and then whine that he is being attacked when people demand an explanation.
He stated his opinion in a completely non-inflammatory way. I thought the general reaction to his post was pretty funny in its vehemence.
Sad thing is, I liked McCain pre-2000. Then he started polishing the Republican party's knob and hasn't stopped since. Then he picks an airhead for a running mate and that cemented my opinion. I liked McCain better when he was truly a maverick and drifting between party lines.
As a final note, ask Goose what he thinks of Maverick :P
this is the AGM-65 maverick missile, it is the largest and most powerful tank-busting missile in the world, and is capable of knocking out any ground vehicle at fairly large ranges.
http://www.faz.net/s/RubCF3AEB154CE64960822FA5429A182360/Doc~E315934EF0414487782348A80FA440DE5~ATpl~Ecommon~Scontent.html
Is this how it was (obviously exaggerated), but to some degree?
[ame]http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=uRCBsFaUz_Y[/ame]
For highlights:video But it is really worth watching the whole thing.
Edit: Palin also did another interview with, of course, Fox.
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Man I want to punch this woman in her face... and I'm usually not like that. What a rediculous interview.
My 10 cents
I'll admit, of course, i am Republican. Its highly unlikely I'll ever Vote Democrat if the Republican Party had completely lost it. In said case, I would just not vote. But this election is not said case. If any Republican is the following, they have my vote.
Republican (obviously)
(No Politician is 100% Honest so I'll say) Trust worthy on the issues
They Believe in smaller GOV with less interference in a citizens life.
In Relation to the war, Mc Cain supports a reasonable pullout strategy that does not mean an unstable Iraq or a lost war. I believe the current path with the Iraq war is the right one. Yes there is Afghanistan and Afghanistan is still important but involvement in Iraq is what has kept muslim terroristic extremist at bay these last 7 years. (For the argument: Don't let my dead son die in Vane, and Don't let my son get killed. For me those are legitimate feelings and 2 sides of the same coin.)
The following point ultimatly wins my republican Vote, But i'll keep going:
They believe in capitalism and not socialism (I'm not a fan of GOV handouts to those in this country who screw up, make bad finacial decisions, who are lazy or who will not work for them selves. I believe you have to work for the rewards in life.
Socialistic proposals are not financialy feasible or smart. Plus such attempts have been proven faulty and have resulted in failures in the past.) http://www.fff.org/freedom/0393b.asp
Mc Cain has enough political and military service experience to Lead this country in the right direction. He has the appropriate War experience to deal with current issues over seas. His Resume alone is Impressive.
Senate Navy Liaison, 1977-1981
Captain, United States Navy, Vietnam, 1958-1981
Senator, United States Senate, Arizona, 1987-present - 21 years
National Security Adviser, Dole/Kemp Presidential Campaign, 1996
Representative, United States House of Representatives, 1982-1986.
Not to mention the many organizations he was or is apart of on a global scale.
Organization's like:
Council on Foreign Relations
or
Pacific Council on International Policy
I don't think Obama keeps up. He's too inexperienced and young to know what he is doing in office. I would not want a president that had to learn his job while in office.
Zero Military experience
Too young
His Polital Experience is severely lacking by comparison.
Senator, United States Senate, 2005-present
Keynote Speaker, 2004 Democratic National Convention
Senator, Illinois State Senate, 1996-2004.
He knows how to say "I told you so" in relation to the Iraq. ( I suppose thats important)
Obama is word savvy, eloquent and punctual. He is a better speaker than Mc Cain or Bush. But he's got nothing in terms of credentials to do the Job. Interestingly enough, even if Palin seems like she does not answer questions given in media interviews, neither does obama. His Answer to Rick Warrens Question regarding Abortion is an example of slight of hand diverted answers.
As far is the war goes Obama is full of Heinsite opinions that relate to the "i told you so" metality but offer nothing in terms of "Realistic" solutions.
The only upside to obama ,that i can see, is his chance to be the first Half White /Half Black presedent. Thats cool, but it's not enough.
I think he would be a much more appealing candidate in about 12 to 15 years. He needs more foreign Policy under his belt.
But, even if he was experienced, this little interview below is alittle scary. His statment could be a mistake. But then again, it could not.
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in my opinion, soldiers in a case like this, do not die in vain. they are doing their duty as a soldier. i'm personally against war, but sadly realize its necessity in the world i live in. i feel that the people giving the orders are the ones being entrusted with making the right choices and ultimately should be held responsible.
you say you've lost a son? you also mention, not to let your son get killed? i'm assuming you've lost a son and have another currently enlisted?
i'm assuming you mean where he says,
Obama: "John McCain has not talked about my Muslim faith"
Interviewer: "Christian faith"
"Christian faith..."
"Well what I'm saying is, he's suggested that I'm a Muslim"
Ooh man! If that was a mistake, that was a major blunder indeed.
If it's a lie, that isn't cool. I could imagine a scenario where a candidate would want to keep that secret. I'm not sure how they could... he'd be an EXCELLENT liar if he was lying! he didn't flinch. If it's a rumor, saying it the way he did was a major score for whomever started it. I'd love to know for sure.
1. "I will vote for a Repulican no matter what, or I simply won't vote"
This shows your closed-minded method of decision making. "There is no decision." You stick to the path that have been set for you no matter where it leads, or you deny responsibility. Also your hypocrisy. You're more than willing to vote for a party that is more than willing to contradict your 3rd requirement, as it has, as long as it meets the first. Obviously.
2. "The President should have an impressive military career experience to deal with matters overseas"
The problem with this stems from the fact, there should be no matters overseas. Our military should not be in the middle east. Our military is not defending our freedom, they're diefending our interests. A military is organized to defend against perceived threats. If we're fighting to defend, why hasn't a single battle taken place on American soil? Our military occupied the Middle East prior to 2001. It continues to today. And with any small attempt from the governments, corporations, and media to cook up a reason they should stay there and feed it to the population in ways which cause fear...they will remain there indefinitely. The source of conflict must be addressed, not the symptoms. The military is irrelevant to a position that wants a change for the better. I have to assume that you would also blindly support any Republican leaders decision to make a judgement that leads to the end the technological world as we know it, for faith. That makes your beliefs, dangerous, and a threat to this world. War should be a last resort. And a ground war on an idea should never be considered. That is the very definition of propaganda.
3. "OBAMA IS DARK SIDED!!!"
I watched your video link. I couldn't determine what part you found scary. Then, after reading kp's assumption, it's not beyond you. Obama slipped and said "John McCain has not talked about my Muslim faith". In the context of each party flaming the other. Which was easily misinterpreted, and immediately explained what he meant. Look at this this way. What if he had said, "John McCain has not talked about my Christian faith." That would also not make sense. But lets not argue about the meanings of sentences. The point here you've made is...your greatest fear of Obama himself, is the completely fictional possibility that he may not be a god fearing Christian. Instead...he may be an Islamic Extremist. Or, the Anti-Christ. Perhaps he, encourages gays, and endorses orgies. Am I being subtle enough in pointing out your own blind stupidity? He attends church. Is married and has two daughters, that I assume attend church. I have to assume it was a Catholic wedding, as he is Catholic. He and his family celebrate Thanksgiving and Christmas. Which, in good ol' US of A, is more than you need to call yourself a Christian. This response of course depends on your fear of the "Muslim" slip-up. Otherwise, I've typed way to much and will feel really stupid in the morning. Hopefully I won't be late for Church. God Bless.
The only thing I'd add is that in no way whatsoever should military experience be some pseudo-facto requirement for president. Bush had a pansy-ass record. And when it came time to do something? He went AWAL. The generals make the military decisions - the president simply approves/declines them. That's how it's always been.
VP is the second highest position of power in the US... I do not want some soccer mom on a moral high horse in that position. If I did then I would vote for any of the other thousands that go to Wal-Mart every day.
Voting on moral/religious reasons can be as bad.. *Candidate A* hates gays, loves the military, thinks abortion is murder no matter the circumstance, thinks every American should own a gun and hates 'towel-heads'. That makes *Candidate A* a great choice... cause God made it their destiny.
*rolls eyes*
Don't get me wrong, McCain would have been a great choice.... *8* years ago..
Republicans have fucked this country up, especially as of late. They have been in office since 1980 (minus 8 years with Clinton, who got this country's economy several billion in the green).. 20 of the past 28 years.
I'm not saying Obama will make us a perfect country but I think he can at least slow this downward spiral we are in. Some stabilization...
I don't care which party wins ultimately.. I don't care what religion they are. I don't care thier skin color. I don't care about thier political or military experience
I just want to be able to turn on the news and not be bombarded with bullshit, hate and hopelessness. I want to hear 'Hey people, we're doing alright.'
I expected a responce along those lines. I Expressed my views with in the confines of the topic of this thread. I neither attacked or critized anyone here. I answered the continual call for me to explain my reasoning further. But your personal atacks, the ridicules and belitling? And for what? Having views not in step with the 80 percentile of this forum?? Having an avatar that expresses my faith?
I'm sorry for upsetting you. I don't like it when my own words upset others, but i still believe what i believe Politically.
And which god is that? Allah? Christ? Buddha? Ra? Kami? Zeus? Lucifer? I won't stray into a religion rant, but come on.
No one is going to help us Eph. We have to help ourselves. With that in mind, I'd rather choose the person who will do better for the country, not what I personally believe in. You have said several times now that you'd vote Republican even if you didn't like the person.
You're saying you'd rather vote for someone you dislike and would probably lead the country into further chaos, SOLEY because you won't vote democrat (even if it were to help the country). That kind of blind sided stupidity is why you get flamed, not because you stated your opinion.
"I'll admit, of course, i am Republican. Its highly unlikely I'll ever Vote Democrat if the Republican Party had completely lost it. In said case, I would just not vote. But this election is not said case. If any Republican is the following, they have my vote."
Then i listed my reasons for the ideal Republican Canidate and why the current runners get my vote.
I said i would "not vote" if the Republican Party went bad. I did not say i would vote for the wrong party or the wrong person. In any case, as i also stated, i stand against the views of the left because the left seems consumed with socialism.
If a Dem had non Socialistic views and steared more towards the betterment of mankind thorugh hard work and capitalism, then that might be diffent but as it stands with the current left, i'm all republican based on the socialistic aspec.
Just out of curiousity, you realize that the democrats are actually not that socialist in the grand view, right? They're actually still pretty damn Capitalist.
You also realize that hard work can occur every bit as much in a socialist system as in a capitalist one, right? And that if used properly socialism can be used in conjunction with capitalism to create higher quality of life, right?
In fact, do you realize that economics are not black and white? You can actually have a bit of both. Lots of places do it. In fact, if you look at the quality of life surveys world wide, the US is low on the list, being beat out all over by countries with more socialist systems.
http://www.fff.org/freedom/0393b.asp
The GOP looks really wishy washy right now and after 8 years of a do noting right GOP congress which the mavrick was a part of, you still want to stand by the GOP?
Put your blind faith in God, not the worst kind of humans imaginable.
The GOP has blown it big and them putting the mavrick on the ticket just shows how desperate they are to cling to power. McCain has been a thorn in their side ever since he joined. Him being on the ticket and his speeches about "change" is omission that they've botched it royally. We fence sitters are supposed to buy into "the GOP wrecked it, but the GOP will fix it? No seriously this time we will I know we said we would 4 years ago, but this time we're not lieing."
I was on the fence until he picked Palin not because she was the best but because she was female and might pick up a few Hillary supporters and "look we have a first too!". That's taking a serious campaign and turning into a side show.
I don't swear allegiance to any party and would never follow any one person or party blindly, if and when you let them know that, they often use it in their best interest not yours.
As for the war being the right direction, lets give the Iraqi people some credit too, the Mahdi army cease fire, and ethnic divide and the Sons of Iraq, did more the quell violence then the surge. At any moment the Iraqi people could turn on the American army and the war would be lost. Our army is not strong enough to occupy Iraq properly, we never prepared for it and we never expected it. That's a serious oversight by the GOP. And McCain hasn't shown any intention of deviating from that course. In fact he's shown his ignorance by touting the success of the surge again and again as the only stabilizing force. If he's not going to be open to alternative suggestions and is going to stick to his own way of doing things then we have more of what we are about to get rid of.
Perhaps if we didn't rush into the war we might have had time to prepare properly and go in with the right number of troops to begin with. I can't stand by a party that uses fear and peoples patriotism and faith as tools of destruction on other people who never deserved it. Maybe if we didn't rush to war we could have actually made our case to the Iraqi people and they would have understood and actually greeted us as liberators instead of invaders.
Going back to socialism, do some research on why your party is against socialized health care but supports medicare, social security and what about taxes if thats not a form of socialism then what is? If you're really agaist socialism and it ills then demand that your party stamp it out completely. You can't use it as a crutch and then try to beat the other side with it.
While you're at it also read up on governments in other countries how their healthcare runs and how well the government takes care of its people. You'll find the war on socialism is more class warfare then anything else.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World%27s_Most_Livable_Cities
Looks like a whole lotta countries with a lot more socialism are doing an aweful lot better than the ol' US of A.
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Here is a good article on Biden:
http://www.newsweek.com/id/162295/page/1
Whatever experience some believe Obama may lack, Biden makes up for. And it's good to know he will play an active role in this country's leadership...instead of its demise (Dick). Whatever leadership experience McCain had to his credibility, was shot down with his choice of Palin. Who will most likely play no important role in her position. Oil drilling. First Ladies have done more good than she will. Leaving McCain to COMMAND THAT ARMY TO VICTORY OVER...SOMETHING! WOOOO!!!
Palin accuses Obama of hanging out with terrorist... I hear he has horns also...
Nice way to shoot yourselves in the foot.
Hey, if you can't beat 'em...
Hey, she found one! (someone found it for her)
Radical activists during the 60's, during the Vietnam War, are now considered terrorist? Man they love that word. Bill Ayers is currently a Distinguished Professor of Social Justice at the University of Chicago. How many people has he killed? Obama, in the 90's, taught constitutional law at the University of Chicago Law School. 20 years after the end of the Vietnam War.
Ok, fun game. In 1984, Palin was in a Swimsuit Competition for Miss Alaska. Swimsuit. Alaska. Wtf?
ok, I hope you do not think if out of character and i support Palin but, that statment had me rolling for several minutes. That is very funny.
Ephesian would you vote for McCain if he was a muslim or jew?
I think ANY type of extremism is scary.
These awesome camps are in the US.
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B
I gotta say, I couldn't help laughing on the attack on Harry Potter. People who see innocent fiction that way are just so... scary...
But back on topic... if Palin is at all like this, than that's just a little too disturbing to fathom, with her in a spot for such potential power.
Your right, that video is creepy and sad
And also, I don't think Mc Cain nor Palin are like that. Do you think they are?
Mezz, Palin does in fact come from a stream of Christian extremism not unlike those in the video. She's been a member of the Dominionist movement. The dominionists are no better than these so called "terrorists" we face today. They see it as their god given right to create a society of Christians. Even to the extent of violently purging non-believers from their ranks (general US population). It's "gods will" to make the entire world believe, no matter what. SCARY SHIT. Read up on it sometime.
I'm not Christian, but I honestly think Jesus would be saddened to see something like this.
I don't know if they're like this, but I've heard comments of Palin being of an extreme Christian group. I don't know the full truth of this, but I do hope its not true.
Edit: I posted this before I read Vassago's post. Yes, I thought I'd heard that, but I wanted to give the benefit of the doubt in thinking maybe she wasn't a Christian extremist... Then yes, that is scary.
Sadly I think Palin is, or very close. Get rid of the Witchcraft! What a maverick!
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Ephesian would you vote for McCain if he was a muslim or jew?
B
Utimatly, Arabic or Jew, (as far as Faith goes) i'd only vote for a Canidate that held the same Christian Values I hold. As a Christian i believe that to be very important in a Presidential Candidate.
But you answered my question.
Thanks!
B
... Now I am again questioning whether you are serious, or are just a troll playing with us all... I really hope your a troll, because I find it hard to believe anyone that stupidly ignorant has internet access.
Assuming you are serious... well, first off there is no Arabic faith. An Arab could be a Christian, Muslim, Jew, or whatever else. Just like an American could be.
Seriously man. Stop posting. Stop watching Fox News. Go out and read some books (other than the bible) or just do something to educate yourself. Here's somewhere to get started: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab
Thats well thought out advise. Your entitled my friend, as am I. Thank you for being so helpfull. I am open to new interpretation. Nothing should be set in stone as the athority of your life unless it makes sence to you. For example, not even 7 years ago i believed HELL existed, Homosexualality was wrong etc. I've since come to different conclutions which no longer support a scrutinizing additude towards such topics and it's all becuase i chose to use my brain and interprete for my self.
If you are interested, You should read the bible for your self. Do some research and come to you own theological interpretations and conclutions. Don't neccicarily take what a preacher or pastor or tv channel or internet news articles good or bad, (or me) as what is right or wrong. I would suggest you come to what ever truth you find for your self and make your own decisions.
Let's keep it to politics, and not drag some warped views of Christianity into them. Please.
Pentecostal Christians are not a cult.
This post makes you come off far worse than those 'Christians' that push their faith on everyone. Can you not accept that he wants to vote for someone with the same basic values that he follows? Really? The aggressiveness and amount of insult that goes into your rebuttals is not helping your cause. Let him have his point of view, regardless of whether you think it well informed or Fox newsy.
I disagree with him completely in just about everything he posts, but he has as much right as you do to express his opinions.
Lets all be a bit more civil.
I don't understand this. Can you tell me what these 'Christian Values' are? I don't see how they're different from the ethics of anyone else.