Fox news is to news, like The Enquirer is to journalism. So is the John Stewart show, but at least it doesn't make people want to start making and mailing pipe bombs heh.
Also, the John Stewart show is fucking SATIRE and it airs on COMEDY CENTRAL. The O'Lielly Factor is on Fox "News" and presented as "fair and balanced" journalism. Pretty disgusting if you ask me.
Fantastic article, the only problem with it is that only the people that agree with it will read it. The dumb shits who need to read it will either never see it, or stop reading it the second it makes them question their beliefs.
What scares me is what someone with those kind of beliefs give that much power would do to make something like this,"as all true Christians will be lifted bodily into the sky to make merry with Jesus, while all nonbelievers, Jews, Methodists and other rabble will be punished for eternity in a lake of fire" come true. That quote always sounded to me like full on detonation of all nuclear arms in the world while a select few/"true Christians"rocket off into the sky.
Isn't it strange that those who claim to be "open-minded" deem it necessary to bash someone's religious beliefs.
This has nothing to do with personal religious beliefs. This has everything to do with how a person could potentially use religious beliefs to guide national policy, including the use of nuclear weapons. I don't know about you, but Muslim, Christian, Jewish, Hindu, Aboriginee, Pagan, or Spahgetti Monsteran, I wouldn't give them access to the world's largest nuclear arsenal if their beliefs included living in the end-times combined with a belief that they are on "God's mission."
I do find something strange, though- that you consistently defend what are absolutely detestable, and quite frankly frightening, attributes to have in a commander-in-chief, without actually explaining how the attributes we find so frightening are actually encouraging to you.
When those religious beliefs will be a liability to the country, damage the section of the planet that we call home and damage the lives of the 300 million + that live in said country...
I don't care what color, creed, sexuality, religion, fetishes or anything else you have. Just keep it out of the government. Leave your personal stuff at home where it belongs.
I think the phrase "self fulfilling prophecy" would be appropriate here in reference to her belief we are living in the End Times (which has been spoken every generation for the past few thousand years.. and we are still here).
This has nothing to do with personal religious beliefs. This has everything to do with how a person could potentially use religious beliefs to guide national policy, including the use of nuclear weapons. I don't know about you, but Muslim, Christian, Jewish, Hindu, Aboriginee, Pagan, or Spahgetti Monsteran, I wouldn't give them access to the world's largest nuclear arsenal if their beliefs included living in the end-times combined with a belief that they are on "God's mission."
I do find something strange, though- that you consistently defend what are absolutely detestable, and quite frankly frightening, attributes to have in a commander-in-chief, without actually explaining how the attributes we find so frightening are actually encouraging to you.
Yeah, I guess the fact the large amounts of the US has been ran or is being ran by Christians is "impossible" because "we all know" they're on "God's mission" and will "blow us all poor little, helpless people" up.
If you're a Christian, you aren't out to hurt people, but help them. By the way, those of you who have already determined that Mrs. Palin is a dispensational premillenialist, how did you come to this conclusion?
It isn't frightening that someone follows Jesus Christ, Who lived a life as a servant willingly. Again, the hypocrisy of many of you is rather alarming.
When those religious beliefs will be a liability to the country, damage the section of the planet that we call home and damage the lives of the 300 million + that live in said country...
I don't care what color, creed, sexuality, religion, fetishes or anything else you have. Just keep it out of the government. Leave your personal stuff at home where it belongs.
I think the phrase "self fulfilling prophecy" would be appropriate here in reference to her belief we are living in the End Times (which has been spoken every generation for the past few thousand years.. and we are still here).
Why do you think a Christian would want to "harm" people, or in this instance, what reason are you assuming Palin is out to hurt people?
I'm not saying she is intentionally out to hurt people.
Though a lot of times I see people who are doing 'God's Work' end up hurting people more than helping. They assume that because they can do something then it is God's will. He is guiding their actions. They are doing what is best for the others even when it is not. This country does not need an overprotective mother.
You have to take a step back and think things through when you have the kind of power that comes with the presidency and VP positions. Though she may be trying to help, following certain practices in government can have major repercussions that are not felt at her level. You also have to be culturally sensitive to other nations. We do not need more religious wars, ideologically or physically. This world and its people and animals have suffered enough because of religious warfare.
Growing up in the region of the country I live in, I see a lot of hypocrisy, say one thing and do another. Many claim to be Christian but do not know how to live their life as one. They tend to be very self-serving people. Their kindness (or psudeo-kindness aka two-facedness) extends only until they find out you don't follow their beliefs, then you are their worst enemy. This is a very very very dangerous mindset for someone in such a position as leader and co-leader of the USA.
I don't care if someone is Christian, Muslim, Shinto, Wiccan, Vaudan or Klingon.. If you are sooo far into your religion that it is all that you live your life for, I do not want you to have access to the most powerful military and weapon systems on the planet.
If you are Christian, good for you, I'm happy you have found something to guide your life and make you happy... But please do not let it extend into zealotry. History has shown that leaders who do tend to screw things up.
To quote Ben Parker: "With great power, comes great responsibility."
Yeah, I guess the fact the large amounts of the US has been ran or is being ran by Christians is "impossible" because "we all know" they're on "God's mission" and will "blow us all poor little, helpless people" up.
What? That doesn't even make sense... I have no idea what you are trying to say.
By the way, those of you who have already determined that Mrs. Palin is a dispensational premillenialist, how did you come to this conclusion?
She is a creationist who wants it taught in schools; she has said Iraq is a mission from God; she has affiliations with end-times churches (though belief-through-affiliation could say that Obama hates America- so let Palin hold a press conference and unequivocally declare where she stands on the issue, as Obama did in his March 18th speech); her church practices miracle healing and tongue speaking; she was for censorship in the library of certain books; and others.
It isn't frightening that someone follows Jesus Christ, Who lived a life as a servant willingly. Again, the hypocrisy of many of you is rather alarming.
Why do you think a Christian would want to "harm" people, or in this instance, what reason are you assuming Palin is out to hurt people?
*sigh* I don't know why this is so hard to understand. Two of my favorite colleagues are devout Mormons; I just gave a shining letter of recommendation to a born-again friend for a games job; I would often sit for hours talking with a born again at work years ago, before he found a new job- sometimes I'd accompany him to rehab clinics where he'd preach (probably not the correct term); I invite Jehovah's witnesses into my home so we can talk in more comfort than out on the porch (in fact, I did it so much that they gave up coming to my house when I was back in NY- they'd just drop off Watchtower without knocking); I've read my Bible and I've read my Ehrman. So you can drop the crap about hypocrisy or kool-aid or windmills right now. I'll say it again- this doesn't have to do with her personal religious beliefs, a private citizen can believe whatever the hell they want to believe. But it is different when public policy comes into account. I've asked both born-again friends about abortion- one thinks we can legislate according to God's wishes, the other cautiously does not. I know there are also non-religious people who are against choice, and for choice. The problem becomes, in public policy, what is the debate like with religion? How does one engage in rational debate or discourse when the absolute deciding factor with an issue has nothing to do with the issue- the debate has to take place on theological grounds (whether it means a/theist conversion or a change in thinking of whether we can religiously legislate).
And that is a serious issue. That is what this is about. Here we have a woman who, like our current president, has shown zero intellectual curiosity: she didn't question whether she is ready to be VP; she didn't have a Passport until last year; she has never visited or foreign country or met with a foreign leader; she doesn't understand the danger of censorship; she is for teaching religious doctrine in schools. Here we have a woman who decides issues based on feeling, based on faith, who has not engaged in a debate about any serious national issue; and that I think is why we are getting such a heated discussion. This woman would never have made it past the primaries, she probably would not have been on the stage at the debates. This woman would have been a good governor of Alaska I think, but as president or VP, who 18 months ago would think that's a good idea? Separate yourself from your political leanings for a few moments, stop looking at the Fox and Republican spinmills- don't bother looking at the liberal spinmills either. We don't hate this woman, there's nothing hypocritical about not feeling she is ready, or even capable, of leading a country. The response most of us have towards this woman is not some feminism, bigotry, elitism, snobbetry, hypocracy, blindness, or whatever you want to call it; there are actually serious issues here, and you should either understand those serious issues as they've been explained, respond to the issues and questions brought up if you don't yet understand instead of responding with unrelated red herrings to try to change the topic of discussion, or you should just cast your Early Voting and just be done with this because you, like Sarah Palin, have no interest in understanding some of the most important issues of our generation.
I am for teaching something other than just evolution in schools. I grew up in public schools 85% of my education, and it was quite interesting to discuss things regarding the origins of man. Whether it would be creation or just intelligent design, it has its proper place in schools.
As for abortion, I know it's murder, and wait for the day when it ends. How or why the baby is there doesn't touch the matter that the child is a living individual.
Palin is quite clear in her beliefs, and that is a good thing--a breath of fresh air. I have watched speech after speech of Obama, the one when he said he couldn't turn from his pastor any more than he could his own grandmother "who admitted she was often scared of black men" etc. and all the other speeches. He's like the majority of other politicians, just pouring out empty rhetoric. In no speech has Obama clarifiied his beliefs. He said his church isn't all that radical, and has been on both sides of the fence regarding his pastor of more than two decades. Of course, McCain is no better, he'll say whatever he can to get elected, he's just another lifetime politician. However, in this election, I still feel it is my obligation to vote, though I don't really like either candidate. I'd much prefer Mike Huckabee or Ron Paul over our choices now.
Either way, it's late and I'm getting sleepy, so I'm going to bed. Good night.
Nothing personal to anyone, I enjoy these civil conversations. Feel free to provide the quotes from Palin that make you most worried, perhaps I missed them, as this thread hasn't exactly stayed on topic.
"Nothing personal to anyone, I enjoy these civil conversations. Feel free to provide the quotes from Palin that make you most worried..."
Have you read any of the articles posted? Did you read past the first two lines of what Rob said? Have you ever taken time to think outside of your own personal beliefs? Do you get information from anywhere besides Fox news?
"Yeah, I guess the fact the large amounts of the US has been ran or is being ran by Christians is "impossible" because "we all know" they're on "God's mission" and will "blow us all poor little, helpless people" up."
Where in the hell have you been for the last 8 years? Look at your country... it is in a dire situation, and the largest reason for that is because your Christian government has been using trillions of dollars to blow people up.
"If you're a Christian, you aren't out to hurt people, but help them."
Having grown up in a largely Christian city, and having gone through Christian schooling, and having atleast a mediocrity of knowlege of history, I can easily tell you that you have incredibly little ground to back this up on. Not that I have anything against you being Christian, or even a candidate being Christian, but religious beliefs do not in any way make them a good person, nor should they every enter into politics.
Sorry if this post is rude at all, however in all honesty your posts scare the crap out of me. It displays a bit of the sort of tunnel vision that is evident throughout the states, and could lead to a lot of problems for not only your country, but the rest of the world.
I think that mostly has to do with the fact that he doesn't believe it should have anything do to with him getting elected if its not his driving force. Something that i agree with. I don't believe that a candidates religions beliefs should be a major part of their campaign. When they do that tells me is that the person either cares more about religion than politics or isn't sure what they really want to do.
As for abortion, I know it's murder, and wait for the day when it ends.
Yeah but why should your beliefs be forced on to others? That's not the true christian way, its just the extremist political christian way.
That's why were all so scared of palin because when we read about her beliefs and see how far they are from our own it scares us. I know it would scare you if it was the other way around and she wanted to take away some rites that you care about.
I really don't want to have to know what religion a candidate is, i want to know how they are going to help the country. A candidate shouldn't be the type that uses religion as a crutch to get them the job. Religious dogma of any kind has no place in politics, it pisses me off that over the years it has almost become one and the same.
I am for teaching something other than just evolution in schools. I grew up in public schools 85% of my education, and it was quite interesting to discuss things regarding the origins of man. Whether it would be creation or just intelligent design, it has its proper place in schools.
Creation is part of a religious belief, intelligent design is a pseudo-scientific attempt to prove it and I was under the impression that's where the actual problem lies. I've been taught about creationism in high school, just as I was taught about christianity, islam, judism and all the various other major beliefs... but they were taught in historic and social context.
I agree that there is a place for teaching about the concept of creationism in school, but not in a scientific context like intelligent design attempts to. Religious doctrine shouldn't dictate science and politicians shouldn't dictate scientific education.
I am pretty shocked just how incompetent this Palin character appears to be. I never really got why McCain got through the primairies so easily. Surely he's a badass POW which in itself is a great retort in intellectual debates, but apart from that all he seems to be is just a very, very old man who hardly ever knows what he's talking about. PR wise Palin might be a great move to back up the uncharismatic relic, but she appears to be even less competent than Bush which apart from scary, is actually quite an achievement.
It's been a pretty interesting election so far, but please don't make the same mistakes again. :P
Jonathan: did you listen to that reverend's speech, even? He said 'god damn america' because it's killing people. Which is err.. you know.. against that commandment which instructs you not to kill? He's lamenting the death penalty, as far as I can tell. Not entirely out of line for a christian, right? Ofcourse, Palin is pro-death penalty, as far as I'm aware, so go on: defend that. I'm all for the positive ideals of the christian religion (ie. not the ones that basically go: booo gays.), but I only see christian politicians going with a pretty liberal interpretation of the 10 commandments.
edit: Ah. You believe abortion is murder too, eh? So you agree with her hardline stance on it, I take it? No abortion, no matter the situation? You would force it upon a rape-victim to deliver the baby of a man she must hate, lest they make the unborn un-child suffer? Unless I've been misinformed (and I've reading up on it a bit), that's where she stands on the issue.
And as Skullbox explained, creationism isn't the problem, it's presenting it as a viable, scientifically proven theory that makes it problematic.
as for Obama not talking about his beliefs in any speech, that only makes me respect him more. The separation of church and state has been doing pretty poorly in recent years, don't you think? There are real fears of countries that are ruled by sharia law, which I'd think would make people realise religion has no place in government, rather than making them vote for the one who basically wants bible law implemented.
I am for teaching something other than just evolution in schools. I grew up in public schools 85% of my education, and it was quite interesting to discuss things regarding the origins of man. Whether it would be creation or just intelligent design, it has its proper place in schools.
Teaching creationism in a biology class is the equivalent of teaching that the Earth is the center of the universe in an astronomy class. It's a notion based on Biblical allegory and not observable fact. Like Galileo's heliocentrism, there's mountain of evidence to support Darwin's theory of evolution; creationism offers no justification for its position beyond anecdotes.
Regardless of religious inclination, scientific education should be grounded in observation and not in faith. I'm all for teaching contradictory theories when observation supports them (the quantum model and wave model used to describe light), but not when the theories aren't based in any kind of fact.
Worry about improving the economy situation and solve the true problems that are making people go without money before the end of the month , faith wont change that , nor forcing people to put up with your insecurity about the unexplained, and forcing them tales like if they were scientific proofs when they are supposed to be metaphors...
This is what pisses me off, people like jonathan that dont care about what the politician do , just more about what his favorite color is, or his beliefs , or his favorite food, and if any of those are a match with him he gets the vote, even if the man was the biggest biggot ever .
There are no priorities.
P.S - what i mean must not make much sense but im not very good at explaining what i mean heheh...
edit : like snemmy said :
"I don't care if someone is Christian, Muslim, Shinto, Wiccan, Vaudan or Klingon.. If you are sooo far into your religion that it is all that you live your life for, I do not want you to have access to the most powerful military and weapon systems on the planet"
Wow, there are a few walls of text (I'm not going to read) and I'm sure someone's being an idiot and someones calling them on it. But I'm going to pause the thread for a second and post some news about the case.
Looks like they're going after Kernell after all, but the case is pretty weak and its sad that this case in particular is getting more attention then the millions of actually hacks that happen on a daily basis. I think the last line in the article sums it up best.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La%C3%AFcit%C3%A9 (This is how government is working here in Belgium and in alot of other countries, and I must say that it's saving us from this kind of problem )
Yea but I guess they think its better if comes from someone with an official background rather then Ms, Jenkins the 85 yr old spinster who's best friend happens to look a lot like a hand puppet that doubles as a tea cozy the other 6 days of the week...
If you're going to make your movement legal, then you're going to need to quote better sources then a talking tea cozy. What better way to defeat your opponent then to force them to read a statement they don't believe in and then use it as a quote against them.
Seeing how kids have enough trouble grasping the basic principles of education how about we work on the practical instead of filling their heads with non sense. The few astrophysicists in the group will get their fill of the big bang/God argument on their own. No need to dilute the mass education with a pointless chicken/egg debate.
Do not use a web-mail based service for official business. All I am doing is trying to find a job, and I have a separate email address for that. One which uses my domain. With that said, I also have my Hotmail account which I use for my free daily porn, and fart jokes HaHaHaHa!!!
So who should be in court here? A college kid, or Yahoo's email security people?
I don't care if I leave my car running with the doors open. If you hop in and take off, it is still stealing. Pointing out that I was a retard for leaving it like that shouldn't alleviate any consequences for taking it. Even if the car manufacturer said it was safe to do so.
I don't care if I leave my car running with the doors open. If you hop in and take off, it is still stealing. Pointing out that I was a retard for leaving it like that shouldn't alleviate any consequences for taking it. Even if the car manufacturer said it was safe to do so.
I saw a lady at a gas station get their car repo'd that way. I was pumping my gas, lady comes running out yelling and screaming "Someone stole my car blah blah", she calls the police, they show up(I finish pumping my gas and watch at this point). They get told what happens, and they tell the lady she is out of luck. Turns out she did not pay her bills. LMFAO
How about prosecuting all hackers fairly. If you go after one smacktard who gets lucky with a weak security system then shouldn't you go after them all? With all the wrists that go unslapped why go after this guy?
I don't care what happens to the guy, I don't think he should be spared but I wish they would prosecute ALL cases fairly and not because of political pressure. The department of Justice is ment to be a secular piece of government seperate for the church and seperate from the state. However when they take up cases like this because of poltical pressure its clear who they're in bed with.
I think the major point it underscores is her willingness to do her job however she sees fit, even if that means operating outside of government.
Separation of church and state is a myth in many countries, even those that claim it to be true. In the US the church is plastered on the currency.
Well, that's a little different. At the time the Constitution was framed, the intent was to prevent the government from endorsing one specific religion or persecuting others - that much is all still true. But America was always based on a theistic foundation. The first sentence of the Declaration of Independence includes the phrase "that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights."
The writing on our currency, "In God We Trust," doesn't endorse a church or proscribe others. It's just acknowledging that basic theism.
And before we get into the whole issue of atheism... well, let's not do that. America was clearly not founded as the government of a secular society, and I don't think anyone claims otherwise. The freedom of religion, of what to believe in or not believe in, is still entirely up to the individual.
If you're a Christian, you aren't out to hurt people, but help them.
hahaha
when it comes to other beliefs all religions end up in hate and killing, maybe it's not what jesus christ intended but it's what happened in past and happens still, religion is the worst thing to mix with the government of a country, well religion and insane beliefs.
It isn't frightening that someone follows Jesus Christ, Who lived a life as a servant willingly. Again, the hypocrisy of many of you is rather alarming.
Funny you mention hypocrisy. Very few follow Jesus Christ. Make a clear definition of "Christian", and then ask yourself how many in America truly are. And how many simply claim to be. And how many use this as an advantage in politics. Using the fail safe of "God" in order to sway the vote of those who "stick to their own". Using "God" as a means to avoid questions that desperately need answers.
I'll keep this as short as I can. I know you're probably busy reading the bible.
The current administration was elected, and re-elected with the Christian vote. Upon entering into power it immediately displays disregard to the environment, diplomacy, and civil freedoms. It took a "God's Will" approach to action, invaded and occupied a land of people, beliefs, and traditions that Americans understood little about, and used this lack of understanding against Americans in Propaganda, and staged events. Politicians relentlessly shoved fear provoking buzzwords into the lives of all Americans, with no desire to explain the long course of events which led to the attacks on 9/11. Insisting they were not provoked.
This is a critical time in our World. More people are concerned with political decisions now than ever before, because we demand change.
And with that...it is unbelievable, that a person such as Palin would even be considered as a candidate for Vice President, which has a small chance of giving her the Presidency. It is ridiculous. And the only thing more ridiculous than that, is the people who for some reason, show her support. Because she's a woman, because she's a hockey mom, because she's a Republican, because she's a "normal person" from a small town, or just because. Back on the subject of hypocrisy. It was only weeks ago that the Republican party was heavy on the issue of Obama being under-qualified. Only to silence themselves by choosing a VP candidate who has NO qualifications.
The Republican party has succeeded in some way with the choice of Palin. It's such a hot topic of public discussion, that no one is talking about Joe Biden. The one thing that vocal Christians and Republicans are experts at, is diversion. OMG LOOK GAY PEOPLE! I can't wait to get a big bag of popcorn and watch the Presidential and Vice Presidential debates....in HIGH DEFINITION!
I'm glad Obama doesn't clearly state his beliefs. I'm glad he doesn't use them for political gain. Many Democrats are Christian, just like Republicans. It is not important for office. Beliefs are personal. Jesus prayed alone, and spoke to those willing to listen. Not as the hypocrits do.
you know, 4chan is all fun and games and all... ( or at least was for a time) but now it's pretty scary what anonymous is out to do... they're out to cause shit, nomatter how you slice it. It can be funny, it can be TRUE, but bottom line, they are willing to disrupt something for their own goals, which up until the point of the scientology protests, were for pure laughs, but now it's taken a very huge step towards criminal behavior.
As for the US presidential election/debate... I've proven myself to be quite ignorant in political forums, so I'll refrain from comment. :B
wow what a thread =0 I read some parts of it and a section of that athiests attack article. Very interesting read but it did feel a bit like the person writing the article was purposefully trying to stir up reactions. Ive never lived in america and I can only look on from an outsiders perspective but I am a Christian, a follower of Christ and I havent seen any particular political group that actually seems to really follow Christ so I personally dont really consider my faith closely connected with politics in any way. In my opinion war is completely against what Jesus said is one of the core values of life "love thy neighbour as thyself". The only kind of radical Christian movement I would like to see is the one that accepts and blesses everyone with true love regardless of their race, creed or religion without any agenda. Im not going to pretend that this already exists everywhere but I have faith that it can exist and I can be a part of it, Jesus showed me that it is possible by living the way he did.
you know, 4chan is all fun and games and all... but now it's taken a very huge step towards criminal behavior.
I have to say, with every added piece of information I hear and read about Palin, I dislike her more. What is up with her and her husband refusing a subpeona in the troopergate scandal? I guess the law doesn't apply to them; you can bet if I refuse a subpeona, my ass would be in jail.
that's because everyone already know Obama is Jesus.
you know, 4chan is all fun and games and all... but now it's taken a very huge step towards criminal behavior.
that happened a long time ago. they've been harassing people they don't like for years. i watched them spam and harass (online and off, they found her phone number) someoneone Deviant Art everyday for a year or so.
This is what pisses me off, people like jonathan that dont care about what the politician do , just more about what his favorite color is, or his beliefs , or his favorite food, and if any of those are a match with him he gets the vote, even if the man was the biggest biggot ever .
I'm pretty sure thats not what he cares most about. Hes just trying to explain his side of the argument. No reason to make any personal comments like that.
From a historical point of view religion in politics has always been used to do evil things tarnishing the good that comes from religions. Why anyone who is religious would want to have their religion misused in politics is beyond me.
that's because everyone already know Obama is Jesus.
that happened a long time ago. they've been harassing people they don't like for years. i watched them spam and harass (online and off, they found her phone number) someoneone Deviant Art everyday for a year or so.
Yeah I really stopped going there when the whole habbo hotel thing went down, only to visit every now and then, but always away from /b/ It's not what it used to be for sure. I finally stopped going when everything posted eventually turned into a repost from years ago. Although the memes are still somewhat funny.
I'm pretty sure thats not what he cares most about. Hes just trying to explain his side of the argument. No reason to make any personal comments like that.
From a historical point of view religion in politics has always been used to do evil things tarnishing the good that comes from religions. Why anyone who is religious would want to have their religion misused in politics is beyond me.
Taking the simple approach...
Politicians have big mouths, religion is always looking for a new mouth piece that is louder (and wealthier) then the last. Religions are also notoriously poor but often heavy on followers who's daily lives are deeply intertwined with a few people they look up to and trust for guidance.
Politicians are the opposite and it makes for perfect parasitic relationship.
Say the right things to 3-5 religious leaders, toss some money around and suddenly you turned 3-5 votes into 30-50,000. With miracles like that they can rook in more religious leaders...
"The FBI over the weekend executed a search on the apartment of a University of Tennessee student suspected in the hacking of Republican vice presidential candidate Governor Sarah Palin's Yahoo e-mail account.
While that was going on, other hackers broke into the personal site of Fox News commentator Bill O'Reilly, who had been carrying on for several days in anger over the hacks, and posted subscriber information to the WikiLeaks Web site. "
ahhaha way to go , just because she is a high dumb politician the kid deserves the FBI , thats equality of rights for sure hahah.
Replies
Also, the John Stewart show is fucking SATIRE and it airs on COMEDY CENTRAL. The O'Lielly Factor is on Fox "News" and presented as "fair and balanced" journalism. Pretty disgusting if you ask me.
Fantastic article, the only problem with it is that only the people that agree with it will read it. The dumb shits who need to read it will either never see it, or stop reading it the second it makes them question their beliefs.
Yea, fantastic article. Unfortunately I think Tulkamir is probably right.
This has nothing to do with personal religious beliefs. This has everything to do with how a person could potentially use religious beliefs to guide national policy, including the use of nuclear weapons. I don't know about you, but Muslim, Christian, Jewish, Hindu, Aboriginee, Pagan, or Spahgetti Monsteran, I wouldn't give them access to the world's largest nuclear arsenal if their beliefs included living in the end-times combined with a belief that they are on "God's mission."
I do find something strange, though- that you consistently defend what are absolutely detestable, and quite frankly frightening, attributes to have in a commander-in-chief, without actually explaining how the attributes we find so frightening are actually encouraging to you.
I don't care what color, creed, sexuality, religion, fetishes or anything else you have. Just keep it out of the government. Leave your personal stuff at home where it belongs.
I like to take time to remind the political candidates out there of something called Separation of Church and State.
I think the phrase "self fulfilling prophecy" would be appropriate here in reference to her belief we are living in the End Times (which has been spoken every generation for the past few thousand years.. and we are still here).
Yeah, I guess the fact the large amounts of the US has been ran or is being ran by Christians is "impossible" because "we all know" they're on "God's mission" and will "blow us all poor little, helpless people" up.
If you're a Christian, you aren't out to hurt people, but help them. By the way, those of you who have already determined that Mrs. Palin is a dispensational premillenialist, how did you come to this conclusion?
It isn't frightening that someone follows Jesus Christ, Who lived a life as a servant willingly. Again, the hypocrisy of many of you is rather alarming. Why do you think a Christian would want to "harm" people, or in this instance, what reason are you assuming Palin is out to hurt people?
Besides,
Obama is the one who sat under Mr. Wright who said "God damn America" so I guess your own arguments are self-defeating:
[ame]
So continue on, continue to tilt at those windmills!
Though a lot of times I see people who are doing 'God's Work' end up hurting people more than helping. They assume that because they can do something then it is God's will. He is guiding their actions. They are doing what is best for the others even when it is not. This country does not need an overprotective mother.
You have to take a step back and think things through when you have the kind of power that comes with the presidency and VP positions. Though she may be trying to help, following certain practices in government can have major repercussions that are not felt at her level. You also have to be culturally sensitive to other nations. We do not need more religious wars, ideologically or physically. This world and its people and animals have suffered enough because of religious warfare.
Growing up in the region of the country I live in, I see a lot of hypocrisy, say one thing and do another. Many claim to be Christian but do not know how to live their life as one. They tend to be very self-serving people. Their kindness (or psudeo-kindness aka two-facedness) extends only until they find out you don't follow their beliefs, then you are their worst enemy. This is a very very very dangerous mindset for someone in such a position as leader and co-leader of the USA.
I don't care if someone is Christian, Muslim, Shinto, Wiccan, Vaudan or Klingon.. If you are sooo far into your religion that it is all that you live your life for, I do not want you to have access to the most powerful military and weapon systems on the planet.
If you are Christian, good for you, I'm happy you have found something to guide your life and make you happy... But please do not let it extend into zealotry. History has shown that leaders who do tend to screw things up.
To quote Ben Parker: "With great power, comes great responsibility."
She is a creationist who wants it taught in schools; she has said Iraq is a mission from God; she has affiliations with end-times churches (though belief-through-affiliation could say that Obama hates America- so let Palin hold a press conference and unequivocally declare where she stands on the issue, as Obama did in his March 18th speech); her church practices miracle healing and tongue speaking; she was for censorship in the library of certain books; and others.
*sigh* I don't know why this is so hard to understand. Two of my favorite colleagues are devout Mormons; I just gave a shining letter of recommendation to a born-again friend for a games job; I would often sit for hours talking with a born again at work years ago, before he found a new job- sometimes I'd accompany him to rehab clinics where he'd preach (probably not the correct term); I invite Jehovah's witnesses into my home so we can talk in more comfort than out on the porch (in fact, I did it so much that they gave up coming to my house when I was back in NY- they'd just drop off Watchtower without knocking); I've read my Bible and I've read my Ehrman. So you can drop the crap about hypocrisy or kool-aid or windmills right now. I'll say it again- this doesn't have to do with her personal religious beliefs, a private citizen can believe whatever the hell they want to believe. But it is different when public policy comes into account. I've asked both born-again friends about abortion- one thinks we can legislate according to God's wishes, the other cautiously does not. I know there are also non-religious people who are against choice, and for choice. The problem becomes, in public policy, what is the debate like with religion? How does one engage in rational debate or discourse when the absolute deciding factor with an issue has nothing to do with the issue- the debate has to take place on theological grounds (whether it means a/theist conversion or a change in thinking of whether we can religiously legislate).
And that is a serious issue. That is what this is about. Here we have a woman who, like our current president, has shown zero intellectual curiosity: she didn't question whether she is ready to be VP; she didn't have a Passport until last year; she has never visited or foreign country or met with a foreign leader; she doesn't understand the danger of censorship; she is for teaching religious doctrine in schools. Here we have a woman who decides issues based on feeling, based on faith, who has not engaged in a debate about any serious national issue; and that I think is why we are getting such a heated discussion. This woman would never have made it past the primaries, she probably would not have been on the stage at the debates. This woman would have been a good governor of Alaska I think, but as president or VP, who 18 months ago would think that's a good idea? Separate yourself from your political leanings for a few moments, stop looking at the Fox and Republican spinmills- don't bother looking at the liberal spinmills either. We don't hate this woman, there's nothing hypocritical about not feeling she is ready, or even capable, of leading a country. The response most of us have towards this woman is not some feminism, bigotry, elitism, snobbetry, hypocracy, blindness, or whatever you want to call it; there are actually serious issues here, and you should either understand those serious issues as they've been explained, respond to the issues and questions brought up if you don't yet understand instead of responding with unrelated red herrings to try to change the topic of discussion, or you should just cast your Early Voting and just be done with this because you, like Sarah Palin, have no interest in understanding some of the most important issues of our generation.
As for abortion, I know it's murder, and wait for the day when it ends. How or why the baby is there doesn't touch the matter that the child is a living individual.
Palin is quite clear in her beliefs, and that is a good thing--a breath of fresh air. I have watched speech after speech of Obama, the one when he said he couldn't turn from his pastor any more than he could his own grandmother "who admitted she was often scared of black men" etc. and all the other speeches. He's like the majority of other politicians, just pouring out empty rhetoric. In no speech has Obama clarifiied his beliefs. He said his church isn't all that radical, and has been on both sides of the fence regarding his pastor of more than two decades. Of course, McCain is no better, he'll say whatever he can to get elected, he's just another lifetime politician. However, in this election, I still feel it is my obligation to vote, though I don't really like either candidate. I'd much prefer Mike Huckabee or Ron Paul over our choices now.
Either way, it's late and I'm getting sleepy, so I'm going to bed. Good night.
Nothing personal to anyone, I enjoy these civil conversations. Feel free to provide the quotes from Palin that make you most worried, perhaps I missed them, as this thread hasn't exactly stayed on topic.
Where in the hell have you been for the last 8 years? Look at your country... it is in a dire situation, and the largest reason for that is because your Christian government has been using trillions of dollars to blow people up.
Having grown up in a largely Christian city, and having gone through Christian schooling, and having atleast a mediocrity of knowlege of history, I can easily tell you that you have incredibly little ground to back this up on. Not that I have anything against you being Christian, or even a candidate being Christian, but religious beliefs do not in any way make them a good person, nor should they every enter into politics.
Sorry if this post is rude at all, however in all honesty your posts scare the crap out of me. It displays a bit of the sort of tunnel vision that is evident throughout the states, and could lead to a lot of problems for not only your country, but the rest of the world.
I do to. Nothing wrong with disagreeing, because it brings out new information and lets you know a little bit more about people. That and its fun.
I think that mostly has to do with the fact that he doesn't believe it should have anything do to with him getting elected if its not his driving force. Something that i agree with. I don't believe that a candidates religions beliefs should be a major part of their campaign. When they do that tells me is that the person either cares more about religion than politics or isn't sure what they really want to do.
Hehe i think we all see that one. It still saddens me because he really did seem like a cool and smart guy.
Yeah but why should your beliefs be forced on to others? That's not the true christian way, its just the extremist political christian way.
That's why were all so scared of palin because when we read about her beliefs and see how far they are from our own it scares us. I know it would scare you if it was the other way around and she wanted to take away some rites that you care about.
I really don't want to have to know what religion a candidate is, i want to know how they are going to help the country. A candidate shouldn't be the type that uses religion as a crutch to get them the job. Religious dogma of any kind has no place in politics, it pisses me off that over the years it has almost become one and the same.
I agree that there is a place for teaching about the concept of creationism in school, but not in a scientific context like intelligent design attempts to. Religious doctrine shouldn't dictate science and politicians shouldn't dictate scientific education.
I am pretty shocked just how incompetent this Palin character appears to be. I never really got why McCain got through the primairies so easily. Surely he's a badass POW which in itself is a great retort in intellectual debates, but apart from that all he seems to be is just a very, very old man who hardly ever knows what he's talking about. PR wise Palin might be a great move to back up the uncharismatic relic, but she appears to be even less competent than Bush which apart from scary, is actually quite an achievement.
It's been a pretty interesting election so far, but please don't make the same mistakes again. :P
edit: Ah. You believe abortion is murder too, eh? So you agree with her hardline stance on it, I take it? No abortion, no matter the situation? You would force it upon a rape-victim to deliver the baby of a man she must hate, lest they make the unborn un-child suffer? Unless I've been misinformed (and I've reading up on it a bit), that's where she stands on the issue.
And as Skullbox explained, creationism isn't the problem, it's presenting it as a viable, scientifically proven theory that makes it problematic.
as for Obama not talking about his beliefs in any speech, that only makes me respect him more. The separation of church and state has been doing pretty poorly in recent years, don't you think? There are real fears of countries that are ruled by sharia law, which I'd think would make people realise religion has no place in government, rather than making them vote for the one who basically wants bible law implemented.
Teaching creationism in a biology class is the equivalent of teaching that the Earth is the center of the universe in an astronomy class. It's a notion based on Biblical allegory and not observable fact. Like Galileo's heliocentrism, there's mountain of evidence to support Darwin's theory of evolution; creationism offers no justification for its position beyond anecdotes.
Regardless of religious inclination, scientific education should be grounded in observation and not in faith. I'm all for teaching contradictory theories when observation supports them (the quantum model and wave model used to describe light), but not when the theories aren't based in any kind of fact.
This is what pisses me off, people like jonathan that dont care about what the politician do , just more about what his favorite color is, or his beliefs , or his favorite food, and if any of those are a match with him he gets the vote, even if the man was the biggest biggot ever .
There are no priorities.
P.S - what i mean must not make much sense but im not very good at explaining what i mean heheh...
edit : like snemmy said :
"I don't care if someone is Christian, Muslim, Shinto, Wiccan, Vaudan or Klingon.. If you are sooo far into your religion that it is all that you live your life for, I do not want you to have access to the most powerful military and weapon systems on the planet"
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/22/AR2008092200515.html
Looks like they're going after Kernell after all, but the case is pretty weak and its sad that this case in particular is getting more attention then the millions of actually hacks that happen on a daily basis. I think the last line in the article sums it up best.
good thread btw !
Yea but I guess they think its better if comes from someone with an official background rather then Ms, Jenkins the 85 yr old spinster who's best friend happens to look a lot like a hand puppet that doubles as a tea cozy the other 6 days of the week...
If you're going to make your movement legal, then you're going to need to quote better sources then a talking tea cozy. What better way to defeat your opponent then to force them to read a statement they don't believe in and then use it as a quote against them.
Seeing how kids have enough trouble grasping the basic principles of education how about we work on the practical instead of filling their heads with non sense. The few astrophysicists in the group will get their fill of the big bang/God argument on their own. No need to dilute the mass education with a pointless chicken/egg debate.
Do not use a web-mail based service for official business. All I am doing is trying to find a job, and I have a separate email address for that. One which uses my domain. With that said, I also have my Hotmail account which I use for my free daily porn, and fart jokes HaHaHaHa!!!
IluvJ3sus
I don't care if I leave my car running with the doors open. If you hop in and take off, it is still stealing. Pointing out that I was a retard for leaving it like that shouldn't alleviate any consequences for taking it. Even if the car manufacturer said it was safe to do so.
I saw a lady at a gas station get their car repo'd that way. I was pumping my gas, lady comes running out yelling and screaming "Someone stole my car blah blah", she calls the police, they show up(I finish pumping my gas and watch at this point). They get told what happens, and they tell the lady she is out of luck. Turns out she did not pay her bills. LMFAO
I don't care what happens to the guy, I don't think he should be spared but I wish they would prosecute ALL cases fairly and not because of political pressure. The department of Justice is ment to be a secular piece of government seperate for the church and seperate from the state. However when they take up cases like this because of poltical pressure its clear who they're in bed with.
I think the major point it underscores is her willingness to do her job however she sees fit, even if that means operating outside of government.
Well, that's a little different. At the time the Constitution was framed, the intent was to prevent the government from endorsing one specific religion or persecuting others - that much is all still true. But America was always based on a theistic foundation. The first sentence of the Declaration of Independence includes the phrase "that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights."
The writing on our currency, "In God We Trust," doesn't endorse a church or proscribe others. It's just acknowledging that basic theism.
And before we get into the whole issue of atheism... well, let's not do that. America was clearly not founded as the government of a secular society, and I don't think anyone claims otherwise. The freedom of religion, of what to believe in or not believe in, is still entirely up to the individual.
hahaha
when it comes to other beliefs all religions end up in hate and killing, maybe it's not what jesus christ intended but it's what happened in past and happens still, religion is the worst thing to mix with the government of a country, well religion and insane beliefs.
Funny you mention hypocrisy. Very few follow Jesus Christ. Make a clear definition of "Christian", and then ask yourself how many in America truly are. And how many simply claim to be. And how many use this as an advantage in politics. Using the fail safe of "God" in order to sway the vote of those who "stick to their own". Using "God" as a means to avoid questions that desperately need answers.
I'll keep this as short as I can. I know you're probably busy reading the bible.
The current administration was elected, and re-elected with the Christian vote. Upon entering into power it immediately displays disregard to the environment, diplomacy, and civil freedoms. It took a "God's Will" approach to action, invaded and occupied a land of people, beliefs, and traditions that Americans understood little about, and used this lack of understanding against Americans in Propaganda, and staged events. Politicians relentlessly shoved fear provoking buzzwords into the lives of all Americans, with no desire to explain the long course of events which led to the attacks on 9/11. Insisting they were not provoked.
This is a critical time in our World. More people are concerned with political decisions now than ever before, because we demand change.
And with that...it is unbelievable, that a person such as Palin would even be considered as a candidate for Vice President, which has a small chance of giving her the Presidency. It is ridiculous. And the only thing more ridiculous than that, is the people who for some reason, show her support. Because she's a woman, because she's a hockey mom, because she's a Republican, because she's a "normal person" from a small town, or just because. Back on the subject of hypocrisy. It was only weeks ago that the Republican party was heavy on the issue of Obama being under-qualified. Only to silence themselves by choosing a VP candidate who has NO qualifications.
The Republican party has succeeded in some way with the choice of Palin. It's such a hot topic of public discussion, that no one is talking about Joe Biden. The one thing that vocal Christians and Republicans are experts at, is diversion. OMG LOOK GAY PEOPLE! I can't wait to get a big bag of popcorn and watch the Presidential and Vice Presidential debates....in HIGH DEFINITION!
I'm glad Obama doesn't clearly state his beliefs. I'm glad he doesn't use them for political gain. Many Democrats are Christian, just like Republicans. It is not important for office. Beliefs are personal. Jesus prayed alone, and spoke to those willing to listen. Not as the hypocrits do.
As for the US presidential election/debate... I've proven myself to be quite ignorant in political forums, so I'll refrain from comment. :B
I have to say, with every added piece of information I hear and read about Palin, I dislike her more. What is up with her and her husband refusing a subpeona in the troopergate scandal? I guess the law doesn't apply to them; you can bet if I refuse a subpeona, my ass would be in jail.
that's because everyone already know Obama is Jesus.
that happened a long time ago. they've been harassing people they don't like for years. i watched them spam and harass (online and off, they found her phone number) someoneone Deviant Art everyday for a year or so.
I'm pretty sure thats not what he cares most about. Hes just trying to explain his side of the argument. No reason to make any personal comments like that.
From a historical point of view religion in politics has always been used to do evil things tarnishing the good that comes from religions. Why anyone who is religious would want to have their religion misused in politics is beyond me.
Yeah I really stopped going there when the whole habbo hotel thing went down, only to visit every now and then, but always away from /b/ It's not what it used to be for sure. I finally stopped going when everything posted eventually turned into a repost from years ago. Although the memes are still somewhat funny.
Politicians have big mouths, religion is always looking for a new mouth piece that is louder (and wealthier) then the last. Religions are also notoriously poor but often heavy on followers who's daily lives are deeply intertwined with a few people they look up to and trust for guidance.
Politicians are the opposite and it makes for perfect parasitic relationship.
Say the right things to 3-5 religious leaders, toss some money around and suddenly you turned 3-5 votes into 30-50,000. With miracles like that they can rook in more religious leaders...
http://www.internetnews.com/government/article.php/12268_3773266_2
While that was going on, other hackers broke into the personal site of Fox News commentator Bill O'Reilly, who had been carrying on for several days in anger over the hacks, and posted subscriber information to the WikiLeaks Web site. "
ahhaha way to go , just because she is a high dumb politician the kid deserves the FBI , thats equality of rights for sure hahah.
Holy fuck, that's almost poetic.