Yeah, I think corv is spot on. The main thing he needs now is some solid deffinition.
other than that though your model looks good to me and your tex is pretty decent.
I just read through most of the thread and I must commend you on keeping a cool head and sticking to this and seeing it through.
I'd say you've probably learned alot more than just modelling/tex from this.
I think the shadow under the eyes should be a bit more darker, with the eyes themselves being whiter. This might add some contrast and make the face more definite. Right now, it seems to Grey which makes it look blurry.
Japhir, baddcog, whats_true: Thanks for the crits and/or complements.
I have been thinking about taking a short break from this model and starting a new one with the same specifications (under 700 tris with gun, and same map sizes as before). And of course I wont dare attempt to rip the textures (I learned it wasnt acceptable), Ill paint them entirely from scratch.
I think this would be good practice for me, and when finished I could go back to the Marcus Fenix model and make my final adjustments to his diffuse utilizing what I have learned from painting the new model and trying to follow the crits given as best I can.
What do you guys think? Yes go ahead with it? No... or do you guys have other suggestions for models from the gears of war franchise.
Consider one of two options; (1) use a concept designed for low poly art or (2) translate the concept to suite low specs.
What you've accomplished in this thread is novelty. It's neat for fans of GoW, but not as benefitial to your skill set.
To articulate that more bluntly; what you made is a muddy, noisey mess with no recognizable shapes or forms due to focusing on many small details and not overall characteristic, shadow, lighting and other fundamentals of painting.
You would do well to study the character materials for Quake 3: Arena thuroughly. If you do not own this game it is a worthy investment if texture painting is your goal.
Ouch cholden! That does it, I am taking you off the mailing list for my Christmas cards this year. Ha ha.
Seriously though, I get what you’re saying it’s just hard to hear because I am actually pretty happy with how this character has turned out thus far. Go figure, I am usually a tough critic on myself.
I realize I have plenty to learn though, and this is just my first attempt at doing a character with these specs. I also appreciate you helping me out here, I know you really know your stuff when it comes to low spec work.
Do you think it CAN be pulled off well though, doing the character I posted the link to above? Or do you guys have ideas for other characters from different games that would better suit the “translation” to lower specs.
[Edit] Also remember, I am trying to match this guys level work: http://genz.cgsociety.org/gallery/578595/
its really what inspired me to do all of this in the first place.
One of the big things you would need to do is step back from the work you've done so far. See it from a distance. It seems you might be working too close and doing all these micro details that mess up any real form when seen from a normal game view and at a distance.
A game like this wouldn't be fullbright. Take a look at it with lighting that would simulate more of something you would see on the PSP. Like what Holden-san said about looking at Quake III assets, the contrast between high and low frequency details in their textures will help sell what it seems you are after. Since Mr Gear Chief here isn't covered in a white shawl, you have to work in a different direction to get the right results. You have lots of small light areas next to small dark areas and they turn to formless noise. The biggest offender would be occuring below the belt.
It breaks down to 3 key areas where it's at now.
The head- very flat facial definition and completely monochromatic. It stands out against the rest of the body because the body has so many little things going on while the head is just cap and cheeks/nose.
The torso- so many little details going on, but they all seem to have the same importance. They are all screaming 'LOOK AT ME! I'm an important detail.' Let go of the recessed areas and don't be scared to loose the intensity of the highlights as the form starts to go down.
The legs- Same thing going on here. All of these high frequency wrinkles going on in the pants with high contrast. They fight against all of the thin straps and plates that are supposed to look like they are on top. And, like the torso (but brown, instead of blue) it is either grey or brown. Get some color variation in there.
Anyway, here are some things to also think of. I couldn't sleep soundly letting cholden crit you without being tagged in.
Xenobond: That crit really helps a ton, Thankyou! Yeah, I am excited to give this another go now because I can see now I was approaching it all wrong before. Like cholden said I was trying to do a direct transfer from next gen to old school, when I really need to totally translate the design and comprehend the fundamentals of art that you outlined so clearly for me. It might even be Easier to come up with a better texture now that I think about it like this.
DemonPrincess: I have the game for Dreamcast (yes I still have a Dreamcast) but with the speed it plays at it doesn’t do the character art justice, especially the painting that went into the textures. I will buy the game for sure (on PC) if it has texture flats that I can look at like you say; that would certainly make it worth it alone. By the way, I have been looking for a site like the one you linked me to all over the net. Thank you so much for putting it here, it really makes all the stuff you guys have been saying about how good the painting in Quake III arena is clear. I will certainly save all these pics into my archive. Awsome!
I will buy the game for sure (on PC) if it has texture flats that I can look at like you say; that would certainly make it worth it alone.
Yup yup, you can unpack them and look at them easily. You can just go into the installation folder, and then into the folder named baseq3. Copy the file named pak0.pk3 to some other place on your hard drive. After that you can unpack it with Winzip or Winrar. That pk3 file is really a renamed zip file, it's that easy! :poly142:
You can find the files in the folder models->player. They're tga files, no decompiling necessary.
BradMyers82 the wireframe looks good,i dont see anywhere that might give problems when animated.
I love the specs btw,they are really tricky to get right.
Keep up the great work.
Demon Princess: Thanks that's great! Probably would have never figured that out without your help. Really amazing work they did with the painting, again; I can see why you guys kept mentioning them. I'm gonna keep on studying the textures as I go here.
Genz: Thanks, glad you like it.
I worked on the low poly yesterday and today, and I think I am ready for painting now. I Optimized the meshes so they are exactly 700 tri's once again (my limit for these). Lastly, I think the UVWs are better this time, because I learned how important it is working on these resolutions to have more straight lines with uv clusters (horizontally and vertically) whenever possible. So there packed in there better this time.
The character is: 570 Tri's ...and he will have 1: 256 diffuse/opacity
The weapon is: 130 Tri's ...and it will have 1: 128 diffuse/opacity
Hopefully my painting will be much better with all that I learned, and I'll post my progress with the painting as soon as I can.
[Edit] And incase anyone is wondering about the proportions of my guy there, they should all be very correct. The screen grab (Reference from Epic) is getting that wonky perspective look you always get in their "AnimSet Editor". I learned my lesson working on the last guy.
One thing i think you might benefit from is if you sharpen your textures, to kinda convert them to easier to read shapes when it gets filtered over your models. Filtering has a tendency to make it hard to see some details, and sharpening your textures will really aleviate much of that loss.
Leviathan: Thanks, the elbow and knee deformation setup is the same as the first model which actually worked surprisingly well. The biggest problem is the shoulders, but I don't think there is a whole lot I can do while maintaining the polycount.
Indecom: I have been playing around with this now, thanks for bringing it to my attention.
I painted the gun. I struggled a bit with this as I am still trying to wrap my head around all the great advice that has been given here. I think its an improvement though as the forms seem to be making more sense now (to me at least).
My main method here was to block in the colors as normal, then break the gun up into individual groups of similar surfaces. I tried to think about what I can do to "describe" the individual surface as best as possible. I have also been looking a lot at Quake 3 arena textures, and seeing what they did there.
Well, here it is... and with texture filtering turned off.
A Diffuse and Opacity map was used in these.
Leviathan: Okay, I will see what I can do. I was getting a bunch of comments on my last guy that I should use more black aliased lines, but maybe I went overboard this time around.
Wafer: Thanks, yeah I am trying Convert to handheld specs rather than just make a Copy of the original like Cholden outlined
It's been a while since my last update, due mostly to the fact that I have been working on other projects. The 3d mini challenge over at GA was one diversion, and if anyone is interested you can see what I ended up submitting on my portfolio site here: http://www.icantbelieveitsnothighpoly.com/ZombieSubZero.html
So, I am trying to get back into this and back to thinking about painting low spec diffuse maps.
The update here is probably a little past midpoint way done I am guessing.
My goal this time around is to really get the forms down first with the basic colors, shading and lighting. I am trying my best to not get caught up in noisy detail.
So for the most point, I have the shading, highlights, and lighting done. Now I have to add some more color variation. I have already finalized the head as you will see.
Anyone who has experience with low spec painting, please feel free to let me know what I can improve and where you think I should go with this from here.
And of couse any C&C is very welcome.
Add color variation and wear on the armor.
IMO there needs to be more variation in the edging, you could also make it more directional (with the light coming from above) instead of adding edging all around the pieces.
I wouldn't use any aliased lines, that just looks choppy. If you want the lines to be really accurate and crisp though, consider handpixeled anti-aliasing:
way more readable then marcus is. good job on fixing that first
the black lines in between shapes bother me a lot.. and you dont need them anyway. just make a drop shadow..also im missing some antialiasing in the texture.
it looks like you're shading with black/white.. add some hueshifting in there plz.. and the grey seems off.. i think it should be more of a brownish colour.. and some greenish on the chest
i'd also work on the mouth a bit more, seems to be too open.. and i see a few places where you could easily make straight lines that are clean.. on the wrist, high on the back, the wrist straps.. squares on the belly..
actually.. if you care, there are quite some things that could be optimised for lowres without changing a whole lot to the concept.. like shapes of armor overlapping etc
also.. the skirt seems to have a lot more space then it actually needs.. dunno if you want to change stuff, but i think the chest, shoulders and hands could use some more resolution
and lastly.. maybe you could use alpha on the shoulderpads to make a more interesting lower edge.. wouldnt cost any polies or texture space..
it might look like a long list.. but i do like the improvement you've made.. if you could get all the detail and love you put in marcus in this one too, it'll be a really nice model
Leviathan: Alright, I took your advice and added quite a bit of damage to the armor. I also tried to be more sensitive to the edging, but I don't think I was able to convert it completely to an overhead lighting setup. Great advice! Thank you.
DemonPrincess: That is so awesome of you to keep feeding me such valuable information, thank you.
I am learning so much more here, than I ever did in school. I actually didn't fully understand what aliased and anti-aliased lines are until I read the info on these sites. It makes painting on this level way more clear in regards to my understanding of how to paint.
Snader: Thanks for the awesome critique. I actually kept this page on my other monitor and kept reading what you were saying while I worked. I hope not to disappoint with this update.
Here's What I have done:
-I think I fixed most of the offending black lines.
-Working on the color variation, I think I managed to get a lot more hueshifting in there. I had it before, it was just way too subtle.
-I don't think I managed to change the grey bits much and add green on the chest, but I will see what you guys think of this update, and make changes if necessary.
-As for the mouth, its that far open mainly because of the way I constructed the mesh. If I need to, I should be able to close it by adjusting some verts. (hopefully it won't stretch the texture much)
-I also straightened up some of the lines you mentioned. I never actually thought about how much better it makes things look on this level when you keep it straight.
-Finally, with uvw setup I am gonna have to keep it as is. If I did the uv bake / transfer diffuse trick (with render to texture) in max; I fear that after adjusting my uvws it would make my texture too blurry and I would have to repaint the whole thing. I am usually really good about setting up uv's appropriately, but I neglected to take into account the fact that the skirt area is mirrored. So its pretty much taking up double the texture space it appears on the uv's thus turning a quart sized portion of the texture into the equivalent resolution of using half the texture sheet. In other words, I meant to use about a quarter of the texture space on the skirt because it takes up so much screen space no matter how you look at the character. But because of the mirroring, its more like using half the available resolution or 50%.
Oh yeah, and I plan on using the opacity map on the shoulder pads, I just haven't edited the opacity map since my last update just yet.
This is what I have now.
I think I am pretty much done with it for the most part, unless anyone thinks there are major changes that might help.
C&C please.
Brad, I love this thread, and have been really enjoying watching your progress. This is such and enormous improvement from your initial technique on Marcus. Congrats man! Very well done!
wow great improvement in the last update. the black lines where really killing this piece, and now it looks great!
one minor crit: i'd make the edges of the "loincloth" (don't know what else to call it) slightly darker, they really pop right now and take away from the rest of the piece. oh and could you show us an unfiltered version again? :P.
keep going!
Japhir, i see what you're staying about the white edges, and agree that they do attract the eye to the 'loincloth'. however, I really like the way it looks. As opposed to taking away the lighter colored edges t here, I would suggest that you consider adding some lighter areas to other parts of the texture.
If there are little white bits maybe around the edges of the gauntlets or shoulder caps, the loincloth wouldn't detract away from the rest of the piece anymore. I'd hate to see such a nice detail removed from the texture.
Wow this is one of the best threads I've seen. It really cool to see your improvement from Marcus to where you are now. Your texturing keeps getting better and better. Cant wait to see more. Keep up the great work!
looks great! I would say, the "loin cloth" has too much tex space-its notably crisper/different, but it is good. Just something to consider for the future though.
Awesome stuff in the last render. I agree with japhir about the edging on the loin cloth. Maybe just fill the area a slightly darker color or possibly even a red that ties in with the rest. As Adam said, it is a nice effect so just try and tie it in better. Either way will work.
Pope Adam: Thanks! I'm glad people are still watching this, I thought most people stopped looking after I bombed with the first texture on Marcus ha ha. BTW, I did make the edges not so light like Japhir suggested, but don't worry, I think the detail is still there.
Japhir: Much appreciated. Yeah, you are right about the loincloth. The reason that part sticks out and looks crappy is because it is an aliased line that I forgot about and never fixed until now. Thanks for bringing it to my attention.
ImSlightlyBored: Thanks. Yeah, the loincloth does have to much space. I'll know better next time.
Cody: Thanks man. I'm glad you updated your website, everything looks great. Congrats on finishing the Unearthly challenge, looks like you worked your ass off. A one man team.
AnimeAngel: Thanks.
Xaltar: Yeah, the edges on the loincloth stuck out too much, hopeful I fixed it now. Thanks.
I fixed the ugly aliased lines on the gun, and worked on the Theron Guard a bit more.
The changes on the Theron Guard are pretty subtle but specifically I reworked the lighting on his back because it was too flat, and fixed the loincloth edges.
So next, I am going to rig and pose him asap and repost the finial version as a construction sheet.
[Edit] Oh yeah, Japhir. I'll post an unfiltered version when he's rigged and posed.
You will see I made an animated gif as well. Do you guys think I should put the texture sheet/logo on it or leave it off? Or in other words, does it look too cluttered for an animated gif? The only reason I put the logo and textures on the sides was because there was all that unused space on the sides. I needed to have the gif wide like this so I didn't chop off the gun from the side view, hence the empty space.
Okay, to keep this thread alive. I am re-working the Marcus Fenix model one last time. I am still not satisfied with this yet, and I would like to make a portfolio piece out of it if at all possible. So, I'm going to try to use all that I have learned and apply it to the last paint job I did on this model (version 2). Well see if "3 times a charm".
First off, I re-worked the lighting to define the forms some more, and got rid of some of the crappy details that were just causing noise. At this point I still have to get rid of some other noisy areas, rework some of the color, and make some nice looking details such as chips and cuts in the armor and folds/creases in the pants.
Here is a side by side comparison of version 2 and the few hours of work I have put into version 3.
P.S. I sold a bunch of my old stuff on ebay and got a cintiq 12wx 2 days ago.
My god, is it freaking sweet! Painting could be more fun.
I highly recommend others who don't own one to look into it.
Lil too much brightness on the lighter areas now. The face especialy looks better in the origional version. Somewhere in between is where you should shoot for. Basicly I think you need to tone down the highlights quite a bit. The dark areas look much better in the new itteration and are helping to make the forms pop a lot more. Just try and keep it from looking like there is fake bloom going on, its washing out some of the details.
Xaltar: Yup, your right, I toned the highlights down and I think it looks a lot better. But did I tone them down too much now? I'm really not sure at this point.
Woogity: Ha ha, I think I am going to step away from the Gears of War series for a little while, but if I revisit GOW; berserker will be on the top of my list (Or maybe that really cool looking boss guy from GOW2).
Indecom: Thanks man! BTW I noticed your painting skills are looking really great since you got your wacom in. Good job.
Well, unless anyone has some more suggestions I think I am done here. I am going to rework the gun some tomorrow, and I'm sure I will find a few things to fix on this model by then too.
So, I'll post the finished posed version tomorrow with any further edits I make.
Fantastic!
I look Your post with pleasure. I agre with Harry, eyes can be detailed a litle more. Mayby try make darkest shadows in this area??
Excelent work:]
Ploon: I'm really glad others are able to benefit from my own struggle to learn. Thanks for watching.
Harry: Thanks, I sharpened a little and went over the eyes a bit. For the most part the eyes simply look darker now, cause I have so few pixels to play with there. But I think it looks better now.
Soda: Thank you.
Okay, quite a bit to show now.
Also, I included a filtered and unfiltered presentation sheet because I know people have there preferences (-Japhire, lol).
As for what I changed, I have a comparison of the gun from version 2 and version 3 (now). I fixed the lighting there, and smoothed out any aliased lines.
With Marcus I changed the color of his backpack a bit so it didn't blend in so much with the pants and made other minor adjustments.
And here he is, hopefully re-worked for the last time...
I'm thinking of taking a break from the Gears Of War series and having a go at Violator from Spawn. I am planning on doing both the clown character as a model, and also doing the grey demon character as a second model.
I was thinking it would be pretty cool if I could figure out a way to morph the clown into the demon as well, if anyone has any suggestions for that; please let me know.
I realize I could move the verts from one character and build the second and store as a morph target; but I don't think the morph would look very good this way.
So, I am going to just post that WIP here, even though its not Gears Of War related, because this thread is turning into more of a personal painting/learning adventure more than anything.
dude really enjoy this thread your low poly is ftw. glad to see you revisited the original from this thread, shows dedication and patience. stepping away from GOW thats cool, cant wait to see what you dig up for the next go.
The reason the eyes look dodgy is that youve lit above and below the eyes the same. It should be darker on top.
I by no means intend to blow my own trumpet here, but I figured rather than just wank on about how it should look, I'd present one of my low res textures purely for demonstration.
Replies
other than that though your model looks good to me and your tex is pretty decent.
I just read through most of the thread and I must commend you on keeping a cool head and sticking to this and seeing it through.
I'd say you've probably learned alot more than just modelling/tex from this.
I have been thinking about taking a short break from this model and starting a new one with the same specifications (under 700 tris with gun, and same map sizes as before). And of course I wont dare attempt to rip the textures (I learned it wasnt acceptable), Ill paint them entirely from scratch.
I Kind of want to attempt to re-create this model.
http://www.game-savers.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/03/gears-of-war-screenshot-_6.jpg
(sorry couldnt find a better pic, I am on my laptop atm)
I think this would be good practice for me, and when finished I could go back to the Marcus Fenix model and make my final adjustments to his diffuse utilizing what I have learned from painting the new model and trying to follow the crits given as best I can.
What do you guys think? Yes go ahead with it? No... or do you guys have other suggestions for models from the gears of war franchise.
Please let me know.
What you've accomplished in this thread is novelty. It's neat for fans of GoW, but not as benefitial to your skill set.
To articulate that more bluntly; what you made is a muddy, noisey mess with no recognizable shapes or forms due to focusing on many small details and not overall characteristic, shadow, lighting and other fundamentals of painting.
You would do well to study the character materials for Quake 3: Arena thuroughly. If you do not own this game it is a worthy investment if texture painting is your goal.
Seriously though, I get what you’re saying it’s just hard to hear because I am actually pretty happy with how this character has turned out thus far. Go figure, I am usually a tough critic on myself.
I realize I have plenty to learn though, and this is just my first attempt at doing a character with these specs. I also appreciate you helping me out here, I know you really know your stuff when it comes to low spec work.
Do you think it CAN be pulled off well though, doing the character I posted the link to above? Or do you guys have ideas for other characters from different games that would better suit the “translation” to lower specs.
[Edit] Also remember, I am trying to match this guys level work: http://genz.cgsociety.org/gallery/578595/
its really what inspired me to do all of this in the first place.
A game like this wouldn't be fullbright. Take a look at it with lighting that would simulate more of something you would see on the PSP. Like what Holden-san said about looking at Quake III assets, the contrast between high and low frequency details in their textures will help sell what it seems you are after. Since Mr Gear Chief here isn't covered in a white shawl, you have to work in a different direction to get the right results. You have lots of small light areas next to small dark areas and they turn to formless noise. The biggest offender would be occuring below the belt.
It breaks down to 3 key areas where it's at now.
The head- very flat facial definition and completely monochromatic. It stands out against the rest of the body because the body has so many little things going on while the head is just cap and cheeks/nose.
The torso- so many little details going on, but they all seem to have the same importance. They are all screaming 'LOOK AT ME! I'm an important detail.' Let go of the recessed areas and don't be scared to loose the intensity of the highlights as the form starts to go down.
The legs- Same thing going on here. All of these high frequency wrinkles going on in the pants with high contrast. They fight against all of the thin straps and plates that are supposed to look like they are on top. And, like the torso (but brown, instead of blue) it is either grey or brown. Get some color variation in there.
Anyway, here are some things to also think of. I couldn't sleep soundly letting cholden crit you without being tagged in.
Yes, I'm a hopeless Kenneth Scott fangirl. :poly136:
These character shots may help:
http://earthli.com/quake/warriors.php
But I would really recommend getting the game if you don't have it, and studying the flats for yourself!
DemonPrincess: I have the game for Dreamcast (yes I still have a Dreamcast) but with the speed it plays at it doesn’t do the character art justice, especially the painting that went into the textures. I will buy the game for sure (on PC) if it has texture flats that I can look at like you say; that would certainly make it worth it alone. By the way, I have been looking for a site like the one you linked me to all over the net. Thank you so much for putting it here, it really makes all the stuff you guys have been saying about how good the painting in Quake III arena is clear. I will certainly save all these pics into my archive. Awsome!
Yup yup, you can unpack them and look at them easily. You can just go into the installation folder, and then into the folder named baseq3. Copy the file named pak0.pk3 to some other place on your hard drive. After that you can unpack it with Winzip or Winrar. That pk3 file is really a renamed zip file, it's that easy! :poly142:
You can find the files in the folder models->player. They're tga files, no decompiling necessary.
I love the specs btw,they are really tricky to get right.
Keep up the great work.
Demon Princess: Thanks that's great! Probably would have never figured that out without your help. Really amazing work they did with the painting, again; I can see why you guys kept mentioning them. I'm gonna keep on studying the textures as I go here.
Genz: Thanks, glad you like it.
I worked on the low poly yesterday and today, and I think I am ready for painting now. I Optimized the meshes so they are exactly 700 tri's once again (my limit for these). Lastly, I think the UVWs are better this time, because I learned how important it is working on these resolutions to have more straight lines with uv clusters (horizontally and vertically) whenever possible. So there packed in there better this time.
The character is: 570 Tri's ...and he will have 1: 256 diffuse/opacity
The weapon is: 130 Tri's ...and it will have 1: 128 diffuse/opacity
Hopefully my painting will be much better with all that I learned, and I'll post my progress with the painting as soon as I can.
[Edit] And incase anyone is wondering about the proportions of my guy there, they should all be very correct. The screen grab (Reference from Epic) is getting that wonky perspective look you always get in their "AnimSet Editor". I learned my lesson working on the last guy.
Indecom: I have been playing around with this now, thanks for bringing it to my attention.
I painted the gun. I struggled a bit with this as I am still trying to wrap my head around all the great advice that has been given here. I think its an improvement though as the forms seem to be making more sense now (to me at least).
My main method here was to block in the colors as normal, then break the gun up into individual groups of similar surfaces. I tried to think about what I can do to "describe" the individual surface as best as possible. I have also been looking a lot at Quake 3 arena textures, and seeing what they did there.
Well, here it is... and with texture filtering turned off.
A Diffuse and Opacity map was used in these.
Wafer: Thanks, yeah I am trying Convert to handheld specs rather than just make a Copy of the original like Cholden outlined
It's been a while since my last update, due mostly to the fact that I have been working on other projects. The 3d mini challenge over at GA was one diversion, and if anyone is interested you can see what I ended up submitting on my portfolio site here: http://www.icantbelieveitsnothighpoly.com/ZombieSubZero.html
So, I am trying to get back into this and back to thinking about painting low spec diffuse maps.
The update here is probably a little past midpoint way done I am guessing.
My goal this time around is to really get the forms down first with the basic colors, shading and lighting. I am trying my best to not get caught up in noisy detail.
So for the most point, I have the shading, highlights, and lighting done. Now I have to add some more color variation. I have already finalized the head as you will see.
Anyone who has experience with low spec painting, please feel free to let me know what I can improve and where you think I should go with this from here.
And of couse any C&C is very welcome.
Actual full size diffuse map:
IMO there needs to be more variation in the edging, you could also make it more directional (with the light coming from above) instead of adding edging all around the pieces.
http://www.gas13.ru/v3/tutorials/handmade_antialiasing.php
http://neota.castleparadox.com/aa_tutorial.html
the black lines in between shapes bother me a lot.. and you dont need them anyway. just make a drop shadow..also im missing some antialiasing in the texture.
it looks like you're shading with black/white.. add some hueshifting in there plz.. and the grey seems off.. i think it should be more of a brownish colour.. and some greenish on the chest
i'd also work on the mouth a bit more, seems to be too open.. and i see a few places where you could easily make straight lines that are clean.. on the wrist, high on the back, the wrist straps.. squares on the belly..
actually.. if you care, there are quite some things that could be optimised for lowres without changing a whole lot to the concept.. like shapes of armor overlapping etc
also.. the skirt seems to have a lot more space then it actually needs.. dunno if you want to change stuff, but i think the chest, shoulders and hands could use some more resolution
and lastly.. maybe you could use alpha on the shoulderpads to make a more interesting lower edge.. wouldnt cost any polies or texture space..
it might look like a long list.. but i do like the improvement you've made.. if you could get all the detail and love you put in marcus in this one too, it'll be a really nice model
DemonPrincess: That is so awesome of you to keep feeding me such valuable information, thank you.
I am learning so much more here, than I ever did in school. I actually didn't fully understand what aliased and anti-aliased lines are until I read the info on these sites. It makes painting on this level way more clear in regards to my understanding of how to paint.
Snader: Thanks for the awesome critique. I actually kept this page on my other monitor and kept reading what you were saying while I worked. I hope not to disappoint with this update.
Here's What I have done:
-I think I fixed most of the offending black lines.
-Working on the color variation, I think I managed to get a lot more hueshifting in there. I had it before, it was just way too subtle.
-I don't think I managed to change the grey bits much and add green on the chest, but I will see what you guys think of this update, and make changes if necessary.
-As for the mouth, its that far open mainly because of the way I constructed the mesh. If I need to, I should be able to close it by adjusting some verts. (hopefully it won't stretch the texture much)
-I also straightened up some of the lines you mentioned. I never actually thought about how much better it makes things look on this level when you keep it straight.
-Finally, with uvw setup I am gonna have to keep it as is. If I did the uv bake / transfer diffuse trick (with render to texture) in max; I fear that after adjusting my uvws it would make my texture too blurry and I would have to repaint the whole thing. I am usually really good about setting up uv's appropriately, but I neglected to take into account the fact that the skirt area is mirrored. So its pretty much taking up double the texture space it appears on the uv's thus turning a quart sized portion of the texture into the equivalent resolution of using half the texture sheet. In other words, I meant to use about a quarter of the texture space on the skirt because it takes up so much screen space no matter how you look at the character. But because of the mirroring, its more like using half the available resolution or 50%.
Oh yeah, and I plan on using the opacity map on the shoulder pads, I just haven't edited the opacity map since my last update just yet.
This is what I have now.
I think I am pretty much done with it for the most part, unless anyone thinks there are major changes that might help.
C&C please.
Actual full resolution diffuse map:
one minor crit: i'd make the edges of the "loincloth" (don't know what else to call it) slightly darker, they really pop right now and take away from the rest of the piece. oh and could you show us an unfiltered version again? :P.
keep going!
If there are little white bits maybe around the edges of the gauntlets or shoulder caps, the loincloth wouldn't detract away from the rest of the piece anymore. I'd hate to see such a nice detail removed from the texture.
Japhir: Much appreciated. Yeah, you are right about the loincloth. The reason that part sticks out and looks crappy is because it is an aliased line that I forgot about and never fixed until now. Thanks for bringing it to my attention.
ImSlightlyBored: Thanks. Yeah, the loincloth does have to much space. I'll know better next time.
Cody: Thanks man. I'm glad you updated your website, everything looks great. Congrats on finishing the Unearthly challenge, looks like you worked your ass off. A one man team.
AnimeAngel: Thanks.
Xaltar: Yeah, the edges on the loincloth stuck out too much, hopeful I fixed it now. Thanks.
I fixed the ugly aliased lines on the gun, and worked on the Theron Guard a bit more.
The changes on the Theron Guard are pretty subtle but specifically I reworked the lighting on his back because it was too flat, and fixed the loincloth edges.
So next, I am going to rig and pose him asap and repost the finial version as a construction sheet.
[Edit] Oh yeah, Japhir. I'll post an unfiltered version when he's rigged and posed.
Here is the final character posed and rigged.
You will see I made an animated gif as well. Do you guys think I should put the texture sheet/logo on it or leave it off? Or in other words, does it look too cluttered for an animated gif? The only reason I put the logo and textures on the sides was because there was all that unused space on the sides. I needed to have the gif wide like this so I didn't chop off the gun from the side view, hence the empty space.
Filtered Presentation Sheet:
UnFiltered Presentation Sheet:
Okay, to keep this thread alive. I am re-working the Marcus Fenix model one last time. I am still not satisfied with this yet, and I would like to make a portfolio piece out of it if at all possible. So, I'm going to try to use all that I have learned and apply it to the last paint job I did on this model (version 2). Well see if "3 times a charm".
First off, I re-worked the lighting to define the forms some more, and got rid of some of the crappy details that were just causing noise. At this point I still have to get rid of some other noisy areas, rework some of the color, and make some nice looking details such as chips and cuts in the armor and folds/creases in the pants.
Here is a side by side comparison of version 2 and the few hours of work I have put into version 3.
P.S. I sold a bunch of my old stuff on ebay and got a cintiq 12wx 2 days ago.
My god, is it freaking sweet! Painting could be more fun.
I highly recommend others who don't own one to look into it.
-Woog
Xaltar: Yup, your right, I toned the highlights down and I think it looks a lot better. But did I tone them down too much now? I'm really not sure at this point.
Woogity: Ha ha, I think I am going to step away from the Gears of War series for a little while, but if I revisit GOW; berserker will be on the top of my list (Or maybe that really cool looking boss guy from GOW2).
Indecom: Thanks man! BTW I noticed your painting skills are looking really great since you got your wacom in. Good job.
Well, unless anyone has some more suggestions I think I am done here. I am going to rework the gun some tomorrow, and I'm sure I will find a few things to fix on this model by then too.
So, I'll post the finished posed version tomorrow with any further edits I make.
I look Your post with pleasure. I agre with Harry, eyes can be detailed a litle more. Mayby try make darkest shadows in this area??
Excelent work:]
Harry: Thanks, I sharpened a little and went over the eyes a bit. For the most part the eyes simply look darker now, cause I have so few pixels to play with there. But I think it looks better now.
Soda: Thank you.
Okay, quite a bit to show now.
Also, I included a filtered and unfiltered presentation sheet because I know people have there preferences (-Japhire, lol).
As for what I changed, I have a comparison of the gun from version 2 and version 3 (now). I fixed the lighting there, and smoothed out any aliased lines.
With Marcus I changed the color of his backpack a bit so it didn't blend in so much with the pants and made other minor adjustments.
And here he is, hopefully re-worked for the last time...
I'm thinking of taking a break from the Gears Of War series and having a go at Violator from Spawn. I am planning on doing both the clown character as a model, and also doing the grey demon character as a second model.
I was thinking it would be pretty cool if I could figure out a way to morph the clown into the demon as well, if anyone has any suggestions for that; please let me know.
I realize I could move the verts from one character and build the second and store as a morph target; but I don't think the morph would look very good this way.
So, I am going to just post that WIP here, even though its not Gears Of War related, because this thread is turning into more of a personal painting/learning adventure more than anything.
I'll post some concept stuff up soon.
-Woog
Here is my prep work for the Violator Clown character.
I grabbed some reference pics from the comic books and web, and
drew up some quick orthos.
I plan to keep him around the same stats as the GOW characters
So, about 500 Tri's for the character and 256x256 Diffuse (since there will be no weapon).
Lastly, I am shooting to get this character done in a week; which is a lot faster than the other psp characters I was working on.
I by no means intend to blow my own trumpet here, but I figured rather than just wank on about how it should look, I'd present one of my low res textures purely for demonstration.
My humble opinion