One thing we're facing over on our project, which isn't quite the case here I don't think but is something I wanted to talk about, is that the back story isn't a part of your application to the contest. Its not exactly something the judges will get a chance to understand (assuming they aren't reading these threads). While its fun to write and fun for people to read, thats not the challenge.
Successfully illustrating our stories in the 2 frames we get is the challenge.
I do think, though, that your props (Ryan and crew) suggest things that were going on here weren't exactly puppy dogs, feathered pillows, and lollipops but rather something demented. And if you strip away your story and strip away the illustrations of people with large heads and no feet, you still have something that feels creepy.
I do hope you guys are planning a tighter shot for all of these props. If your current frame-of-choice for showing people is any indication, you'll definitely need a tighter frame to show just whats happening, or happened, within these walls.
evil is such a subjective word, i think mangled did an excellent job (not perfect, but who is) love your concepts ian*exclamation point exclamation point, they realy set the mood for imagination on the scene,
i think the scene itself carries that imagination though, very thought out,and GREAT compisition!
the props as well artem kick ass! nice job (as alwaYS)
my "consructive"crits would be, it doesn't feel very "unearthly"
without the concepts you scene is VERY grounded in reality.
the building is lacking structure, its too frail and without foundation for such a high rise building. the bulk of the cement and rigging compromise the fact that its falling apart so i guess it realy dont matter,(either you did it on purpose or you didnt realize it).
again, Great job.
doomstagg:
Evil is a lose term and means many different things to many different people. Thats one of the things that I think quite a few people are having with this competition. To me a destroyed out building, war torn city, and machines that scream torture is evil. Then you go further into the composition and seeing this evil looking destroyed building "eating the city" I think it subconsciously makes it even more evil. It is not quite a literal evil with pentagrams, candles in a circle and 666 on the walls.
However once the machines are in with their "glowy" bits we can tighten up the lighting making it more spooky/evil.
adamBrome:
Going into it I knew the back story can not be submitted. The main reason behind the story was first of all fun. The second is to establish a story to our environment. This story would help us pre-plan elements and items we would need to hopefully "visually" tell our story once the set is complete.
The mutant concepts were much of the same. Establish what these things look like and then design machines that would do this to them. However, with the characters we fully plan on submitting them on the concepts sheets. It has no rules against sketches of submitting characters that would inhabit the environment. Again another important stage of establishing an environment is figuring out who is using it
Our second shot is already pretty much planned, and it will be very close to the machines so we got that base covered! We just need to finalize the machines texturing so we can put it in!
Graff Pirate :
Thanks for the compliments! Like evil, unearthly is a very subjective word! The definition ranges from "weird and out of the ordinary" to "unreasonable and absurd". It is again another one of those rules that I have a problem with as it is too vague. We wanted to go with the realism route as it would be easier to help portray our story and people can relate to it better. Adam mentioned the problems he was having and that is primarily due to the fact he went too sci-fi and nothing is grounded in realism so people can not relate with out a story to read (not to point you out Adam I love you! ). If they wanted pure sci-fi or super out of this world stylized they should have not provided so many realistic concepts to begin with.
So back to unearthly I think these machines are "weird" enough and "out of this world" to be unearthly. The lighting hues suggest something "out of the ordinary". and hopefully with the lighting and polishing touches we can portray more of what was engineered in this building caused the downfall of the city which can borderline absurd.
Lastly I totally agree with you about more support elements. I am adding some but not as much as it would take to make this building exist in the real world. You mention it is fragile and that is one element I think helps add to the scene, and again possibly borders it on "unearthly".
Thanks for all the comments guys! I've populated the scene with all the machines and beds and wires and such, we'll have some shots of that hopefully soon. For now, just showing the bed low poly with AO and normals.
I apologize for the lack of post, our group is apparently "too busy working hard to update." I wanna see it done and I know you do too, so I ninja'd a quick phone pic of Ryan's monitor. Here's an unauthorized unsanctioned leak for everyone because that's how I roll : )
I'm really liking the new addition of the Dell Monitor asset. Awesome composition! :P
It's looking really nice guys. I can barely see it, but I already like how the little chair feels off in the far corner over there. Gives me the heeby jeebys :P
Here you go still playing with a ton of stuff on this.. Right now the biggest things we are testing is value and color. We really want to set the building apart from the city and make it more evil and contrasty. so the city and sky are really over exposed for this reason.
the wheelchair at the end of the hallway in the sunbeams is brilliant
I cant see anything inside the building though, more brightness in there, maybe a nice eerie haze?
(looking awesome dudes, keep playin with that contrast)
Thanks for the nice compliments.
I agree on the brightness! I am going to go in and play with adding some highlight lights and some fill blue "Hollywood nightish" type lights in hopes it keeps the contrast but shows off those machines a bit more.
Also I had some plans for fog/haze in there. I think that might help lighten a bit and add some "evil" aswell.
I like the machines, good shit Artem. I do agree with Ferg that it is hard to see anything inside the building. I think the fog will definately help like you said. It almost seems like the building is a little too contrasty.(if that is a word) The collapsed section of the building is very hard to make out and you are losing alot of the detail that you initially put into the destruction. I personally like some of the details that you had displayed on page 7.
I see you're still testing but it looks as if there's too much contrast right now between the yellow hue from the outside and the blue lights inside the building. I'd say bring those two closer to each other to harmonize the entire piece. I'd say change the color of the lights on the inside, and go over it with some nice post processing if you haven't already
Also, I think it'd be better to increase the brightness on the inside. X Con did a real fine job on those props. It'd be a damn shame not to appreciate how much work hes put into them
yeah it almost seems like a waste of time for x-convict if you are only going to see some glow from the screens . With bright sunlight on the outside like that i'd expect a lot of bright ambient light reflecting inside.
Very curious what your second shot will be like too! Looking very promising right now.
ok guys i'm sorry to say, but as cool as it looks you seriously seem to have washed out all your hard work with the lighting in this scene. the wheel chair, the hospital bed, and that really cool tube thing; have all lost that cool detail that you put into it. maybe adding some atmospheric lighting will help to show off some of your work a little better.
another thing is that the shot seems too busy, i don't feel like my eye is being led toward anything in particular. sure the building is helping to frame the shot but it doesn't feel like there is a focal point
sorry if this sounds like i'm nitpicking(or just being an A**hole), but i'm just trying to leave a strong comment to help you with your scene
I wanted to post this up as an alternative. Mind you the second shot will be close up on Artem's machines to show them off so do not worry you will get to see all his hard work! However wanted an opinion on who likes which value/contrast/color setup more!
For some reason the three tiles at the bottom left corner of the image bug me. Mainly the middle one. Maybe it's that there's too much contrast between it and the green texture next to it. You see what happens when you guys do such a great image... you get nit picky comments like this... Now I sound annoying. I blame it all on you.
I like this much better. My eye isn't constantly going to the city anymore. It's more unified and the building still stands out like you guys wanted. Man... I really dig the chair... asset and placement and all.
Have you considered that the top right hand section of of glass with light shafts
breaking through is possibly the coolest part of the image?
When I look at that, I find it more attractive than the central section where the cool
focus is on, perhaps it would be worth imagining there is a series of ceiling windows
in the generator room and some of the glass is broken there too.
That way you could return the focus to the coolest room in the house, the generator
room. I think you would need to expriment with the right combination of light
shafts in that room, but if you balanced it, then you'd make everyone go wow.
I mean more so.
You could also subtley use the orange bounce like from the interior light shafts to
delicately pick out the forms of the generators that are black atm also.
looking great, i agree with others - the main second iteration pic is much better, im glad the glare and bright yellow was taken down a notch on the outer city. I love the way the machine room looks, i just wih i could see more of the details, but then im sure your next shot will do that as you said.
I do agree with Kevin though, that eerie chair that acts as the "eye" is drawing my attention and is my fav bit i think
Kevin: I agree, I think we need to highlight some of the machines inside a little better. Bringing in the light through broken windows on the inside is a cool idea. I know Ryan is still tweaking the lighting though.
Here's a texture update for some of the machines, not many more to go. I figured the work flow and look I liked for these so the rest are going by much quicker. These don't have any of the glow maps on them, they are in the engine though as you can see from Ryan's last updated pic.
Edit: crap forgot to set the red stripe on the MRI main piece to overlay, so it's a little brighter than the others atm..
The alternative version is better but please increase contrast a bit more, making the glowing parts... glowy.
Just like on the anon leak pic
Also, you could put one of those sexy machines on the left, hanging out on the edge with cables and shit falling down or something... cool. Add some more variation to the textures of walls on each floor please
Also, you could put one of those sexy machines on the left, hanging out on the edge with cables and shit falling down or something... cool. Add some more variation to the textures of walls on each floor please
WIN
Really I think having a big machine part hanging would draw attention away from their main focus.
And last time i checked most buildings I've been in have the same wallpaper/paint job for each floor. unless its a separate business. Think if they were to change it... it may look awkward and distracting.
Hey guys just another iteration on the piece. There are still lots of changes and tweaks to come just wanted to give you guys an update on where we are at.
yeah, this is getting better and better with each iteration guys I liked the contrast you had in previous versions, although the brighter interior is better in this one
I've been following this one for a while. Love it. Only complaints with the last render are the dust overlay you've got in there, or dust particles, are don't really read that well and are, for me at least, just kinda muddying everything up. Also, some of the equipment with the ground underneath them lit up don't seem to be casting any shadows. They aren't really quite grounded in the environment yet.
I was kinda liking the left side a few renders back, particularly the alternative render you posted before, now the scene is starting to become ultra busy. No place for my weary eyes to rest. : ( Still, looking really nice, can't wait to see the final.
Replies
ya.... you missed like the rest of the thread.... dis is evil.
Successfully illustrating our stories in the 2 frames we get is the challenge.
I do think, though, that your props (Ryan and crew) suggest things that were going on here weren't exactly puppy dogs, feathered pillows, and lollipops but rather something demented. And if you strip away your story and strip away the illustrations of people with large heads and no feet, you still have something that feels creepy.
I do hope you guys are planning a tighter shot for all of these props. If your current frame-of-choice for showing people is any indication, you'll definitely need a tighter frame to show just whats happening, or happened, within these walls.
i think the scene itself carries that imagination though, very thought out,and GREAT compisition!
the props as well artem kick ass! nice job (as alwaYS)
my "consructive"crits would be, it doesn't feel very "unearthly"
without the concepts you scene is VERY grounded in reality.
the building is lacking structure, its too frail and without foundation for such a high rise building. the bulk of the cement and rigging compromise the fact that its falling apart so i guess it realy dont matter,(either you did it on purpose or you didnt realize it).
again, Great job.
doomstagg:
Evil is a lose term and means many different things to many different people. Thats one of the things that I think quite a few people are having with this competition. To me a destroyed out building, war torn city, and machines that scream torture is evil. Then you go further into the composition and seeing this evil looking destroyed building "eating the city" I think it subconsciously makes it even more evil. It is not quite a literal evil with pentagrams, candles in a circle and 666 on the walls.
However once the machines are in with their "glowy" bits we can tighten up the lighting making it more spooky/evil.
adamBrome:
Going into it I knew the back story can not be submitted. The main reason behind the story was first of all fun. The second is to establish a story to our environment. This story would help us pre-plan elements and items we would need to hopefully "visually" tell our story once the set is complete.
The mutant concepts were much of the same. Establish what these things look like and then design machines that would do this to them. However, with the characters we fully plan on submitting them on the concepts sheets. It has no rules against sketches of submitting characters that would inhabit the environment. Again another important stage of establishing an environment is figuring out who is using it
Our second shot is already pretty much planned, and it will be very close to the machines so we got that base covered! We just need to finalize the machines texturing so we can put it in!
Graff Pirate
Thanks for the compliments! Like evil, unearthly is a very subjective word! The definition ranges from "weird and out of the ordinary" to "unreasonable and absurd". It is again another one of those rules that I have a problem with as it is too vague. We wanted to go with the realism route as it would be easier to help portray our story and people can relate to it better. Adam mentioned the problems he was having and that is primarily due to the fact he went too sci-fi and nothing is grounded in realism so people can not relate with out a story to read (not to point you out Adam I love you!
So back to unearthly I think these machines are "weird" enough and "out of this world" to be unearthly. The lighting hues suggest something "out of the ordinary". and hopefully with the lighting and polishing touches we can portray more of what was engineered in this building caused the downfall of the city which can borderline absurd.
Lastly I totally agree with you about more support elements. I am adding some but not as much as it would take to make this building exist in the real world. You mention it is fragile and that is one element I think helps add to the scene, and again possibly borders it on "unearthly".
You will never get a picture leak of the second shot!
(and yes that is a challenge)
win+l
now stop teasing, show the real deal !!!!one
oh and that shit looks cool too.
racist
It's looking really nice guys. I can barely see it, but I already like how the little chair feels off in the far corner over there. Gives me the heeby jeebys :P
Here you go still playing with a ton of stuff on this.. Right now the biggest things we are testing is value and color. We really want to set the building apart from the city and make it more evil and contrasty. so the city and sky are really over exposed for this reason.
I cant see anything inside the building though, more brightness in there, maybe a nice eerie haze?
(looking awesome dudes, keep playin with that contrast)
Thanks for the nice compliments.
I agree on the brightness! I am going to go in and play with adding some highlight lights and some fill blue "Hollywood nightish" type lights in hopes it keeps the contrast but shows off those machines a bit more.
Also I had some plans for fog/haze in there. I think that might help lighten a bit and add some "evil" aswell.
Also, I think it'd be better to increase the brightness on the inside. X Con did a real fine job on those props. It'd be a damn shame not to appreciate how much work hes put into them
Very curious what your second shot will be like too! Looking very promising right now.
another thing is that the shot seems too busy, i don't feel like my eye is being led toward anything in particular. sure the building is helping to frame the shot but it doesn't feel like there is a focal point
sorry if this sounds like i'm nitpicking(or just being an A**hole), but i'm just trying to leave a strong comment to help you with your scene
I wanted to post this up as an alternative. Mind you the second shot will be close up on Artem's machines to show them off so do not worry you will get to see all his hard work! However wanted an opinion on who likes which value/contrast/color setup more!
The last iteration posted:
http://boards.polycount.net/showpost.php?p=861614&postcount=222
Heres the alternative one:
I like this much better. My eye isn't constantly going to the city anymore. It's more unified and the building still stands out like you guys wanted. Man... I really dig the chair... asset and placement and all.
This, my friends, is a damn sexy image!
Fantastic work , really slick.
Have you considered that the top right hand section of of glass with light shafts
breaking through is possibly the coolest part of the image?
When I look at that, I find it more attractive than the central section where the cool
focus is on, perhaps it would be worth imagining there is a series of ceiling windows
in the generator room and some of the glass is broken there too.
That way you could return the focus to the coolest room in the house, the generator
room. I think you would need to expriment with the right combination of light
shafts in that room, but if you balanced it, then you'd make everyone go wow.
I mean more so.
You could also subtley use the orange bounce like from the interior light shafts to
delicately pick out the forms of the generators that are black atm also.
I do agree with Kevin though, that eerie chair that acts as the "eye" is drawing my attention and is my fav bit i think
Kevin: I agree, I think we need to highlight some of the machines inside a little better. Bringing in the light through broken windows on the inside is a cool idea. I know Ryan is still tweaking the lighting though.
Here's a texture update for some of the machines, not many more to go. I figured the work flow and look I liked for these so the rest are going by much quicker. These don't have any of the glow maps on them, they are in the engine though as you can see from Ryan's last updated pic.
Edit: crap forgot to set the red stripe on the MRI main piece to overlay, so it's a little brighter than the others atm..
my favourite by far!
i love it so much!
great work guys
-continues to have sex with your work-
Just like on the anon leak pic
Also, you could put one of those sexy machines on the left, hanging out on the edge with cables and shit falling down or something... cool. Add some more variation to the textures of walls on each floor please
WIN
Really I think having a big machine part hanging would draw attention away from their main focus.
And last time i checked most buildings I've been in have the same wallpaper/paint job for each floor. unless its a separate business. Think if they were to change it... it may look awkward and distracting.
I was kinda liking the left side a few renders back, particularly the alternative render you posted before, now the scene is starting to become ultra busy. No place for my weary eyes to rest. : ( Still, looking really nice, can't wait to see the final.
i didn't realize you guys put ceiling beams at the beginning