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W.I.P. Anatomy model with Woody Harrelson head

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Working on an anatomy model atm. I am going to make the face look like Woody Harrelson. It is still symetrical while I improve the proportions but later on I will be breaking the symetry and adding personalised details like vains,tendons, wrinkles, nipples, ect. Crits would be very useful atm as this will be a portfolio piece so I simply aim to make this look as good as possible, but I also plan to dress and animate him later.
woody_5_face_composition.jpg
Woody_anatomy_W_I_P__by_0202742.jpg

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  • HonkyPunch
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    HonkyPunch polycounter lvl 18
    ....
    That's frightening.
    Wtf
  • technodookie
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    technodookie polycounter lvl 17
    Great anatomy work!

    For some reason the 3\4 head view at the top looks funny. Maybe its just the angle, but it seems like the back of his skull is missing. It seems fine in the other pictures though.
  • merlyn
    Jimmies_the_squirrel- Not sure what to say, If this is a bad thing in your oppinion please can you tell me how to improve it?

    technodookie- Thank you. That is an old render of the head before I took it into Zbrush, and the back of the head was not made then.

    Finnished the feet now except for the top level of detailing, also started to break the symetry on the torso.
    woody12.jpg
  • Wells
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    Wells polycounter lvl 18
    Woody Harrelson's penis doesn't look like that.

    This comes off as supremely creepy - just sticking an actor's head onto a super-realized masculine form. 3D equivalent to fanfic. But if this is your jam, more power to ya!

    He comes across as being rather doughy, the forms not being as well integrated into a 'whole' as I'd like to see. The abs, for example, stand out as just being ab-shapes extruded. The overall feel is very cartoony.
  • merlyn
    Thanks for the crits Sectaurs. I have tried to improve the flow of the form to integrate it into a whole better, which included working on the abbs and a fair bit of shaping the back. It is not worth it IMO to make the head and figure two different projects, plus I think that with work it will look less creepy. Let me know what you think.
    woody13-1.jpg
  • Jaco
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    Jaco polycounter lvl 17
    That looks a lot better, very nice. The arms and hands aren't quite up to the same standard though. The fingers look too big for the palms, and the arms look a bit short. The transition from forearm into hand, especially the wrist region, needs some work. I'll do a paintover if you want, but if you look at some refs you should see what's wrong.
  • merlyn
    Thanks for pointing this out Jaco I have tried my best to adress these points. I had purposely made the hands a little bit too big before for dramatic effect as I thought only artists would notice but it seems you were not the only one to notice.
    woody14.jpg
  • HonkyPunch
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    HonkyPunch polycounter lvl 18
    No, it's fine it;s just that Woody Harrelson is a vision of my nightmares
  • merlyn
    This may be the last update for a while I am thinking of entering the DW.
    woody15.jpg
  • merlyn
    I started sculpting his head and changed his expression so he would look less scary, also I figure a more neutral expression should be easier to animate later. It is still symetrical at this point so any crits regarding the shape of his head would be very helpful. The photo of him is similar to the expression I am going for.
    woody_head_1.jpg
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  • AsylumSeaker
    I dare you to do Tom Cruise. The new, insane tom cruise of course.
    0605_cruise2_236x174.jpg
  • merlyn
    Lol, I don't think I could make him without making him look even crazier.
    woody_head_2.jpg
    woody16.jpg
  • John Warner
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    John Warner polycounter lvl 18
    nice work. IMO, those biceps are too round and bulgy... in fact i think that his arms might be too short... and maybe his torso a tiny bit too long, just by a fraction... but i'm not sure about that.

    also, the pose of his arms is a little bit rigid right now (even though it's a bind pose) from the front view, it looks like he's falling over.

    those delts are pretty small in comparison to those arms. if i had arms that huge and beefy my delts would have to be massive to support them. IMO the arms need less bulk in general.
  • merlyn
    Been tweaking just about everything.

    Thanks for the crits John_Warner, I have tried to fix the areas you have mentioned, except for the pose which I will change a bit later.

    woody_head_3.jpg
    woody17.jpg
  • merlyn
    Detailing him now and trying to break the symetry, soon I will add veins. C&c welcome.

    woody18.jpg
  • merlyn
    Havent had much time to work on this but I have been tweaking the back of the shoulders, arms and neck, also I made the head a tad bigger. Going to add veins today. As allways crits would be appreciated.
    woody19.jpg
  • merlyn
    I have started a finer level of detail now, here is a close up of his legs also. Crits, comments and suggestions welcome.

    legs_2.jpg
    woody20.jpg
  • merlyn
    Been mostly working on the hands, the top side especially the veins still need a lot of work but I am fairly content with the underside now. If you are interested in seeing this image at a higher resolution check it out on my deviantart page (signature).
    woody21.jpg
  • merlyn
    I have been working on the details tweaking here and there, mostly on the hands and the veins, if any of them still look odd please let me know. For higher res images visit me at www.0202742.deviantart.com.


    legs_2copynew.jpg
    woody23.jpg
  • vertexguy
    Overall this looks great. The waist area looks a little off to me though, like his crotch should be a bit lower relative to his butt. The head is also a bit too wide for woody. For the veins on the legs it looks like they are either uniformly popping out, or not at all. It would look a little more realistic if the veins aren't quite so prominant and have more of a fade to them in areas.
  • timwiese
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    timwiese polycounter lvl 9
    poor Woody, he only has a nub. How does he pee out of that nub?

    Nice work, I like the amount of detail you are going into with the veins, I think the only thing that is lacking that I can tell is the knees seem too smooth. Oh and the head looks a little too wide.
  • merlyn
    vertexguy - Thank you. I have tried to fix the head but the rest will be worked on soon (updated the anatomy composition image in the previouse post).

    timwiese - Thanks. His urine is stored inside his muscles that is why he is soo bulky wink.gif I will eventually work on his manhood however not in great detail, my only concern with doing that atm is that I am worried my image hosting site would not host it. I agree about the knees and I will fix them soon.

    Managed to start on the face again, made it narrower and altered the ears (so they are not based on mine anymore) still working on it's form but I will break the symetry and add details soon. Not sure what age I should make him? A younger Woody would fit the anatomy better imo however an older one is more interesting to sculpt. What do people think about the size of his head in relationship to the body? Tommorow I will provide a reference image composition so that my model will be easier to crit.
    woody_head_4.jpg
  • notman
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    notman polycounter lvl 18
    I think you have his side profile spot on. There still seems to be something odd about the cheeks or the jawline from the front angle. It could just be the lack of a texture though that's throwing me off.
  • merlyn
    Thanks notman hopefully you will be able to recognise clearly what is wrong with him now.
    sourcecomposition.jpg
  • Ruz
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    Ruz polycount lvl 666
    it just looks odd as the woody harelson head, with a muscular body.
    might be better to do a more generic head for your muscular guy then do a portrait study of him as a separate piece cause its quite a nice head model you made in its own right.
  • notman
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    notman polycounter lvl 18
    Funny, when you look at those references, it seems like his head actually changes shape wink.gif
    A couple of those images make me think your model's chin is too low/long, but then I see other images where it's dead on. It appears to changed based on his expression at the time.
    One thing I noticed though, is the area around his mouth seems to be more prominent than your. The reference in the middle, where he has the blue button up shirt, and his head is slightly turned, shows what I'm referring to. Actually the one just above it on the left also shows it. I don't know what you'd call that area, but it's the half inch area that frames the mouth.
  • merlyn
    Ruz - I know exactly what you mean and I can see why you are saying this, thanks for pointing it out. At the moment I am not employed so I wan't to use my unemployed time to demonstrate the skills which I think I have to best effect, I know when I go back into the games industry again I will not get the time to work on projects which would be this time consuming. My goal for this piece is to make two animations, one of the antomy, animated in the most realistic way I can manage without any expensive plugins and composited onto film footage, the second a close up of Woody's face while he is acting with various different facial expressions. My goal for the second animation is to be so convincingly realistic that the majority of people would not know it was a 3d animation unless they were looking out for 3d. I know it will be very hard to acchieve these goals (I will definatly need a lot of help, especially on rendering, skin shaders and using skin deformers (I plan on using morph materials also to morph not only the geometry but the displacement)), but I think that the more ambitiouse I am with this the better the results will be, I also expect this to take a long, long time, which is why I chose to try and combine these projects.

    notman - His expressions as well as the photoes do change the shape of his face an aweful lot imo which is really bothering me, I am trying to look at lots of images at the same time so that I can just get a feel of how his face is shaped and work from that. Regarding the chin and the mouth I have tried to fix those areas, let me know what you think of them now.
    woody24.jpg
    sourcecomposition.jpg
    woody_head_5.jpg
  • notman
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    notman polycounter lvl 18
    I think you've got the head now. The second head on both rows look spot on. Nice work
  • Ruz
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    Ruz polycount lvl 666
    yup the head looks ace now, not quite as cartoony.
  • merlyn
    Glad you both think so.
    Started breaking the symetry on his face, plenty more work left on it and also the torso which I will go back to in a while, would the model look better if it's head was a little bit bigger? Continued crits, comments and suggestions would be most appreciated.

    woody_head_6.jpg
    woody_face_composition_small.jpg
  • Jeremy Wright
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    Jeremy Wright polycounter lvl 17
    I think you've come a long way with Woody's head. Looks really good. Also, the physique looks good.

    My 2 cents is you should break this up into two seperate pieces. Woody Harrelson with a bodybuilder physique makes no sense, and the physique and his head take away from each other.

    Do what you will, but I think you have the opportunity for two great showpieces instead of one confusing one.
  • merlyn
    8FtSpider - Thanks for providing me with your oppinion, I do not wan't to have to remodel the face for the anatomy model now as then I would have less time for this face, what I may do is only display the head in the facial renders/animation.

    Here is a quick render of the head with a mental ray sss shader, not used any maps on it yet just basics. Not sure if I will render this model with mental ray or vray yet, does anybody know if max's hair and fur modifier works well with vray? Going back to the sculpt now.

    woody_sss_test.jpg
  • merlyn
    All head renders will be done in Max from now on with Mental Ray, default lighting and fast skin sss shader.

    woody_face_composition_small.jpg
    woody_head_7.jpg
  • merlyn
    Tweaked quite a bit especially the forehead, moving onto the finer details next, a bit concerned about how much detail is lost when a sss shader is used in max compared to the Zbrush viewport grab, I may have to further emphasize some of the subtle details. Not sure whether to post these Max renders or the Zbrush ones. If anything looks odd no matter how subtle please tell me even if you cannot specify exactly what it is, for example...the nose looks odd, this would really help.

    woody25.jpg
    woody_face_composition_small.jpg
    woody_head_8_sss.jpg
  • merlyn
    I have had some fantasic crits lately on another forum so I have made changes to the jawline, cheek bones, forehead and shoulders, I think it has improved the model no end, please continue to provide me with crits, comments and suggestions, they are soo much appreciated. I have new extended plans for this project now which I am very exited about but I cannot reveal them yet, all developments will be updated on this thread. If anyone wishes to see the concept sheet at double the dimensions follow this link.
    http://s168.photobucket.com/albums/u187/0202742/?action=view&current=woody_face_composition.jpg

    woody26.jpg
    woody_face_composition_small.jpg
    woody_head_9.jpg
  • Archanex
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    Archanex polycounter lvl 18
    I would have to agree with 8ftspider, I think the work is good, but you should make it either be totally Woody H. or totally not Woody. Or both like he suggested.
  • merlyn
    Thanks for letting me know your oppinion Archanex, I have been thinking about this quite a bit. Spent the last few days adjusting the anatomy around the collar bone and the lower legs, also I have been adding a few more veins and giving the veins more variation. Personally I cannot see any more reasonably sized areas of the anatomy which I could improve at this moment in time, so I will leave the body at this unless anyone else can point out ways of improving it. Finishing off the head sculpt next. To see bigger versions of these images go to my deviantart page. As allways crits, comments and suggestions would be most appreciated.

    legs_3.jpg
    woody28.jpg
  • merlyn
    Neutral expression head scult is nearly complete now, should manage to finish it tommorow as I can only see fine details which need adding.

    woody_head_10.jpg
    woody_face_composition_small.jpg
  • Piotr Słomowicz
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    Piotr Słomowicz polycounter lvl 17
    Thats alot of Woody Harrelson. Face looks alright to me.
    About his body, first he got a little bit X legs, id move knee outwards a little. Unless he really has knees like that. Also, does he sport 6 pack these days? wink.gif
  • merlyn
    Ginkuya Piotr Slomowicz, Lol I have no Idea how his anatomy really looks this is just idealized to demonstrate my anatomy knowledge so it may be a slight compliment to him. This may be the final sculpt for his anatomy and head depending on any crits I recieve. Tried to take this into max and realised to my horror that I can not get the displacement to render the finest level of detailing like the wrinkles (before sss shader is added), I think that this is because I can only subdivide my model 3 times for the render, confirmation that this is the problem would be appreciated if anyone reading this knows. Anyway it seems like 2 gig of ram is not enough to finnish my project so I am not sure what I will do as I am pretty broke atm. For now I will work on the sss shader and maps and forget the detail, I do not wan't to start to make any morph targets untill I can render his details.

    woody_head_11.jpg
    woody_face_composition_small.jpg
  • merlyn
    Does anybody know if I should be able to render this in Max using Mental Ray and 4 gig of ram (currently I have 2)? The model will be iterated to 4 mil tris with displacement, 4096 res texture maps, final gather, hair and fur modifier and a sss shader.
  • Monochrome
    Too..... many...... Woody......Harrelsons!!!
  • merlyn
    Lol, sorry Monochrome you can't imagine how much it affecting me studying his face most day's, atm I am still finding ways to improve the sculpt imo, I suppose each and every day you look at a piece you see new things, I am in no rush so I will continue at it, please keep the crits, comments and suggestions coming.
    Does anyone know a solution to my hardware query?

    woody_head_12.jpg
    woody_face_composition_small.jpg
  • merlyn
  • merlyn
    I have narrowed down my max rendering problems to mesh density as when rendering my pc allways crashes when calculating the scene, plus if I try to subdivide in the viewport it crashes. This seems strange to me as I have an Intel pentium core 2 duo 2.13ghz with 3 gig ram now and sometimes it crashes with meshes exported from Zbrush subdivided to 700000 tris and I have the latest version of max which before would allow me to subdivide my max models into millions of polys. So as a result of this I have been looking into cavity maps to keep the appearance of the finer details when I render in max. Another option may be to further subdivide the areas where the detail dissapears in max before I leave Zbrush so that I don't have to add an extra level of subdivision to the whole model in max, the only problem with this is that the details only dissapear on the hands and face and further subdividing areas of the face would make the base level of geometry more defficult to animate when I want to make morph targets.

    Orriginally I wanted to keep this all one model and to animate the model realistically with morph targets for the face and a morphing displacement map to simulate the appearance of skin folding and creasing, now I will probably turn this into two separate projects, first of all I will turn the anatomy model into a Normal mapped next gen game asset and animate and pose it for still renders, secondly I will seperate the head and animate that in max with high detail with morph targets and textures, I may actually ask Mr Harrison for his assistance with this project as it would be hard to animate this realistically without studying his face in real life, plus I have an added suprise plan for the face.
    __________________
  • Archanex
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    Archanex polycounter lvl 18
    I think you should post more reference :P
  • Japhir
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    Japhir polycounter lvl 17
    Looks great! great likeness! maybe accentuate the cheek holes a bit more, the ones you see defined on the bottom middle images.
    yeah, could you stop posting the reference all the time? ;) :P
  • merlyn
    Sorry guys I know the constant reference posting must be irritating but I want to get as many accurate crits as possible.
    Has been hard to find time for Woody this week but he is still my main focus in my spare time.

    woody_head_14.jpg
    woody_face_composition_small.jpg
    woody29.jpg
  • merlyn
    I added something I wonder if anyone will spot the difference. ;P
    and if Photobucket will let me host this anymore.

    woody30.jpg
    legs_4.jpg
  • Ruz
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    Ruz polycount lvl 666
    the proportions seem off now . he is way top heavy - perhaps the legs too short and the waist area seems a liitle weird.

    head is spot on though
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