Zeitgeist (the movie)
polycounter lvl 19
Watch all the links with "the movie" in the title and the corresponding parts to each film.
http://youtube.com/results?search_query=zeitgeist
I just watched this entire thing at a friends house and I'm not quite sure what to think or believe. Even if a sliver of what was said is truthful, its depressing to think of. I won't offer an overall opinion of what I think right now as I literally just finished watching it and what to collect my thoughts. I figured I'd get something going to see what others have though that've seen it.
So, thoughts?
http://youtube.com/results?search_query=zeitgeist
I just watched this entire thing at a friends house and I'm not quite sure what to think or believe. Even if a sliver of what was said is truthful, its depressing to think of. I won't offer an overall opinion of what I think right now as I literally just finished watching it and what to collect my thoughts. I figured I'd get something going to see what others have though that've seen it.
So, thoughts?
Replies
Heres a review which focuses on some of these ideas:
http://www.boingboing.net/2007/08/06/jay-kinney-reviews-z.html
And heres a christian dude giving a response to some of the issues argued at the beginning of the movie with his version of the facts. http://www.consider.org/News/2007/12.html
see what I mean. =/
This film to me, had a lot of things that kind of answered the doubts I had about what has happened/happening around us.
But because there's a wanton of events mentioned and not as much sources to back some of it up it kind of made some things in the movie hard to believe as well.
Putting this movie on a server was a great idea btw
People who already agree with it will agree with it.
People who don't agree with it will disagree with it.
People who don't fall into either camp will either be frustrated or amused.
I found the religious part very entertaining but I'm inclined to have a good laugh at Christianity when I can. The rebuttal was similarly amusing. Everyone running around yelling "I think I'm right and that makes it FACT!", while the reality is the "fact" that no one can agree is the real joke.
The 9/11 stuff has been covered a billion times since it happened and, as always, is a mash-up of legitimately unanswered questions and general silliness. My view of it has always been that the safest viewpoint to take is to assume your government is evil, regardless of how true that is. Encourages people to keep potential evil in check. History has shown that bad things happen when people get complacent.
And the banker thing I really know nothing about. Again, though, the 9/11 advice falls into play.
I've only watched the Religion segment so far, which was enjoyable. I learned to accept long ago that the bible, and other religious texts were simply stories passed on through the times and should not be taken literally. This documentary was much more elaborate in describing why.
Learn 2 link: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5216975979627863972
I've only watched the Religion segment so far, which was enjoyable. I learned to accept long ago that the bible, and other religious texts were simply stories passed on through the times and should not be taken literally. This documentary was much more elaborate in describing why.
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So you think this documentary is not "simply stories passed on through the times" and would trust it more than any religious text? did you look at the links I posted? Im just saying that what you said there and the way you said it makes it seem like it would be reasonable to agree with you. Some people might but Im not going to agree because Ive found plenty of reasons why the bible is very truthful(while not always literal), both personal reasons and factual reasons. So this movie may back up your beliefs, but I have back up for my beliefs too. Anyway back to the movie , I dont want to turn this thread into another religious debate.
http://joox.net/cat/44/id/1863997
i've watched this 3 or so times, but find i cant talk to anyone about it, all i get are "crackpot conspiracy" looks.
trust it more than any religious text? did you look at the links I posted?
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Personal reasons are no good here. And you agree it's not literal, so I don't see your point. Yes, I read both of your links. The first doesn't provide much of a counterpoint. Just one man's conceited opinion of what he viewed. Simply brushing 100% of as baseless conspiracy and more of the same, and no valid sources of his own.
The second link misses the point completely, but expected from a Christian point of view. One arguement this response makes is the debated birth date of Jesus. While it has been claimed by scholars that Jesus was, in fact, NOT born on Dec. 25th...point remains that Christians celebrate that day as the birth of Jesus. And so, the article in your second link is ignorant of the fact that the narrator of this documentary already stated the birth of Jesus as "assumed". Watch it again and listen. Way to pay attention eh? This is the blogosphere. People love to share their ill informed opinions.
No matter, the message is Jesus was not an actual being, but a myth, so the validity of his actual date of birth offers nothing if there is no recorded evidence of his existance. I accept it to be a story of a man, passed on through many ages, as stories were told in those days. And as those stories have been passed, interpreted, written, translated, rewritten, restructured, and re-interpreted over again over thousands of years to remain applicable to modern scenarios, i have no reason to doubt my stance. No amount of "don't make baby jesus cry" is going to change that. Fact is, a whole world we barely understand existed long before the "savior". Still many would deny that statement. It's this lunacy that keeps evolution regarded as a theory, despite all the evidence that's thrown at their fat heads. Religion is a social control. Just ask those damned homosexuals.
I'm relieved to hear that the "end of the world" was just a simple misinterpretation. Now get off my lawn!
While the evidence of 9/11 being a cover up can easily be brushed aside, I'm more shocked at the willingness of a people to accept simple propagandic one liners. Do i listen to theories and evidence presented by those who demand the truth, or do I simply accept the fact "THEY hate our freedom". "THEY have weapons of mass destruction." "We must spread freedom and Democracy".
Why would I question whether or not America's previous involvement in the middle-east would provoke such actions. Because...they did. The American government has been using its force in that region, for the sake of oil, since the end of WWII. The US has staged and funded events in Iran, and Iraq and placed leaders that favor our goals. We've helped those we afterwards label as enemies, and rushed their execution for our own political gain. It's fact. And for those who understand the existance of a global conflict prior to the events of 9/11, it's more than enough reason to judge the validity of statements made by our "elected" officials. Those who disagree could simply be challenged to point out the location of Iran on a map. Questioning the authorities is freedom, and patriotic.
Fuck, I typed too much again. Move along!
Edit: Just finished part III. To see all the bits and peices of info I've heard and read about over the past several years, all peiced together so nicely to form one linear connection, is frightening. I'd known about the wars being provoked on lies, much like this one. Most people still don't question Pearl Harbor. They'll willing to believe that a nation or group is capable of acting without provocation and fear of consequences. That's the scariest part. So much for history books and education. We have really awesome movies with special effects and Ben Affleck.
Something I expected this video to touch on, but left out:
"Out of these troubled times, our? objective? a NEW WORLD ORDER? can emerge? Today, that new world is struggling to be born, a world quite different from the one we have known." --George Herbert Walker Bush - September 11, 1990
Personal reasons are no good here.
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Of course you should consider them. Science is defined by a method, it would be a sheer coincidence if this method would by accident be the only tool to find truth. Or to make it a little less complicated: it's possible to imagine things that interact with people according to their will only, f.e. 4 dimensional beings. If you don't know what I'm talking about read up the example of the "beltramische wanzen", a famous analogy named after the mathematician Beltrami. You couldn't call those beings facts because you can't find evidence for them with the same method again and again, but they'd exist and if they decide to, you can make personal experiences with them and thus have personal reasons to believe in them. Not considering personal reasons at all is irrational.
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And as those stories have been passed, interpreted, written, translated, rewritten, restructured, and re-interpreted over again over thousands of years to remain applicable to modern scenarios
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That's not correct. And it can easily be "proved" according to your own measurements. Read up the following article. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qumran
Why don't you just express your frustration with christianity instead of covering it up with bulveristic arguments? It would be more honest and I'd understand that.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=...h&plindex=0
with some 9/11 stuff thrown in.
other movies in the series:
the matrix of power, Ancient belief systems, egypt: light of the world, the hidden truth.
as always, its important to research the background information, to see how truthful and well-researched they are being, and where they twist the truth.
People always like to have purpose and someone to tell them what not to do , its the easy way since it doesnt require free will nor to use inteligence or any thought.
shit i also wrote too much.
As for the 9/11...well...what can i say...apparently the states will always be on war with anyone , either for other resources or for "freedom"...id rather live in another country heheheh .
As for collin the bear : no.
No matter, the message is Jesus was not an actual being, but a myth, so the validity of his actual date of birth offers nothing if there is no recorded evidence of his existance. I accept it to be a story of a man, passed on through many ages, as stories were told in those days. And as those stories have been passed, interpreted, written, translated, rewritten, restructured, and re-interpreted over again over thousands of years to remain applicable to modern scenarios, i have no reason to doubt my stance.
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I think its healthy to question authority and to question christianity/religion. I wish more people would ask questions and deal with these issues and not just believe what they are told. Ive done so and Ive found answers which satisfy me, I have found that there is proof in roman documents of jesus' existence and his crucifiction as well as proof of all the christ followers who were willing to die for him without resistance only about 40 years after his death on the cross. From what I remember reading there were many many scrolls(about 5000 and thats just the greek ones) found showing copies of the gospels some of these are still in museums today and date back to as early as 160AD, which is a small time gap when you consider other historical works which are regarded as factual. I also have an undeniable personal relation with Him as God and as such I have no reason to doubt my stance.
Its one thing to slag off christians for being narrow minded, but then blindly folllow what is been said in some cheap assed movie.
I am not a religious person really in that I don't go to church or follow jesus, but I am open to possiblities at least ie that they there is some kind of higher power out there.
I think to follow a purely scientific view of the world is as unhealthy as folowing a purely dogmatic christian view of the world.
I am always amazed by the amount of anger towards people who are religious on these forums.
lighten up a littleb- religion does provide comfort for a lot of people out there, so even if its not all strictly true, people get comfort from it in times of need, so its good to let them have that.
whats the alternative?- science is not very warm or cuddly when you have lost a family member or loved one
The reason I've always heard for Jesus' birthday change had to do with the Catholic church's desire to include the pagans into their church conglomerate. Roman pagans + christians = Roman catholic church. Dec 25 is the day of the Roman pagan feast of Sol Invictus which had incorporated many of the traditions of the Roman Saturnalia holiday. Why do you think they put up evergreens, wreaths, mistletoe, etc to celebrate the birth of Christ?
That shit doesn't have anything to do with Christianity. Babylonian tradition passed to Romans who didn't want to part with it. To keep from their being 2 or more distinct religious peoples, the Roman catholic church was created that was something of a middleground.
What about Santa Claus? Odin used to fly around on his 8-legged horse and visit people's houses with gifts. Good children who left their boots outside filled with feed for the horse found gifts in their boots in the morning.
Bet I've pissed some people off, but I didn't mean to hurt anyone's feelings. It's just what I believe.
Basically, when the movie was over I felt really odd. As if I just told a bunch of information that, while impactful, I can't decipher fact from fiction.
I know, as someone here pointed out briefly, that someone has an argument for every point made in the movie. So while the movie may have been 'hard hitting' it seems wrong to believe in to it right away.
I suppose the only way to get answers is to search for them myself.
Oh, and fuck income tax.
Wake up, think for yourself, follow your desires, express yourself, don't be afraid, don't roll over, etc etc etc.
as far as the religious thing goes, it's pretty irrelevant. It should be self evident at this point to most intelligent people that the bible is not literally true, but in any event, that has nothing to do with it's value. "debunking" Christianity and other religions on a literal level, without consideration to mystical experience is only slightly more intelligent than having dogmatic beliefs. After thousands of years and so many enlightenment traditions, ignoring interpretive value in Christianity, and ignoring experiences of unity consciousness via clinging to a (socially programed) idea of reality, is actually contradictory to the point of this documentary. How ironic. So the bible is metaphoric. who gives a shit?
Why would I question whether or not America's previous involvement in the middle-east would provoke such actions. Because...they did. The American government has been using its force in that region, for the sake of oil, since the end of WWII. The US has staged and funded events in Iran, and Iraq and placed leaders that favor our goals.
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That's a somewhat simplistic and unfair understanding of it. It had a lot more to do with russia, immediately, than it did oil in specific. Iraq, Iran, and afghanistan are leftovers from the cold war as much as Korea or Vietnam. We certainly didn't go to 'war' with iraq purely over wmds, though, i think anyone would agree to that. America and the UK have been in a confrontation with iraq for over fifteen years, and this isn't the first time it's crossed over into armed conflict.
"Where facts are few, experts are many."
- Donald R. Gannon
who has the passion or time to actually do the research necessary to confirm the supposed "facts" other than a fellow conspiracy fanatic or journalist? it's easy to combat religion with basic empirical logic without going into the depth this guy did, but as far as the rest of the movie's claims...who has the time?
apparently the parting of the red seas coincided with the eruption of Santorini that wiped out the Minoans (by tsunami), to fill the void the Aegean sea drew water from all around, including the nile. This would have allowed moses and his gang to cross the river while some hours later the water would have rushed back in, possibly wiping out the pharaohs armies.
While there is no evidence that the red sea parted, there is evidence to suggest that moses crossed out of north Egypt, which would have made more sense, but is also laden with rivers.
The bible may just contain stories, but all stories come from somewhere. I believe these stories were then given meaning and connected, to make them memorable to the teller. To take any of it literally is pure madness.
Those who do take it literally, are ones to watch, because they are mad.
(post moved from the "Educate youself" thread, sense this seams to be the main one on the subject)
The Jimi Hendrix quote was great.
heh...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7eI4vvlupY
the airplane in this test was pulverized.
for the steel beams towards the end, those were cut with
a blowtorch, as that other explosive substance doesn't leave such a clean cut.
If you wanna learn more about the lie of the Federal Income Tax, check out this documentary.
Ott - thanks for the link, I'm actually d/ling America: Freedom to Facism right now. I'm probably gonna watch it tonight. I hope there is now law, because I hate paying income tax!
Oh and FUCK the RFID chip!!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/7217017.stm
*edited to be less offensive.
1) If you want to wave your hand dismissively at whatever the fuck the government is, ignoring that virtually every local, state and federal employee is some average jackass of no consequence, have at it. I'll take your hyperbole about "faithful lapdogs" with exactly as much seriousness. I presume you're intending to refer to some group of shadowy high-ups in the federal government or something equally conspiratorial. I actually wanted to discuss who has the money and where it's going such that they have an advantage (that's an interesting topic), but seeing as you didn't bother to elaborate, I'm left assuming the mayor is funneling all the cash into his pineapple plantation.
2) There is no "shouldn't be legal" aspect to it. The Supreme Court of the United States interprets the Constitution, including the 16th Amendment. By definition, if the Supreme Court interprets a given circumstance to be legal, which they have on exactly this topic, it's legal.
3) The "central bank?" The US Federal Reserve Bank? You've just pinned the last twenty years of fiscal tyranny on this guy:
2. Yes, but they have not in fact stated that it is legal to tax the wages or labor of the average citizen. Amendment 16 allows for direct and indirect taxes, neither of these cover the formentioned.
But anyhow, I don't really care to argue politics, so I think I'll just leave it at that.
...and the people could rebel against this
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Just as a side note, I have some friends who talk about rebellion and such, and while I agree we need change and I support their ideas, the people in power are prepared for that possibility:
Active Denial System
Certified for use in Iraq
How man delights in creating horrible things. I believe it's just a matter of time before weapons like the one above will be deployed at protests. Why beat someone with a baton, when you can just point the pain-ray at them? I get the feeling they're just field testing this thing in Iraq for later use in other parts of the world.
Anyone who doesn't think rebellion will be violently resisted, is more crazy than I am. This isn't directed at you specifially, Polyhertz, but you brought up a point that interests me: Does anyone think the American people today have what it takes to suffer through the consequences of rebellion long enough to affect a change, and do they even care enough to risk their cushy lifestyle. I have to go with no, and that's what's really sad.
By the way what happens when a mop finds a drug that makes them not feel the pain. Hmmm. Reminds me of a dawn of the dead type thing except it would be pissed up smart humans, like I said I hope I never see this happen. I know when I get pissed enough pain doesn't really matter anymore.
The more likely scenario is people that don't comply will form gangs to survive. Some parts of The USA are pretty much war zones they just don't appear on the news.
Vermillion there are many people that think that man is the devil. I think he just does his job whatever it is to the best of his ability. Bankers try to get the most money out of their customers and make the most money off the money their customers have given them to hold for safe keeping. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that the system is designed to protect the rich as in very rich. A friend of mine brought up the point that you are only insured up to 100,000 thousand dollars so what do people that have more money than that do with their savings. If it's not insured why leave it in the bank.
Alex